Splash Mountain re-theme announced

[tirian]

I don’t think WRE is any more of an appropriate response than PatF. This isn’t just the destruction of a great ride. This is the defamation of significant cultural stories passed down by Africans and African Americans.

When Disney took on the responsibility of adapting the stories, they consequently bared the burden of representing these stories for the modern generation. Why did the NAACP and other organizations care enough to protest? Because these stories are important and Disney has to get the representation right. They kind of did for the animated sections, but the unnecessary live action sections will forever hold the film down.

What Disney needed to do was swallow their pride, admit their mistakes, and make a film that was a better representation of these stories. But they instead decided to wait until nobody even remembered the original stories beyond the actual ride (which did Brer Rabbit a lot more justice than the film). Now they can bury it entirely.

This situation shows how important it is for Disney films to get the representation right, as they take on the responsibility to teach the mainstream audience of the tales they adapt. I’ve repeated this at nauseam. BrerCountry has said it over and over again. It’s frustrating but I can’t blame most people for refusing to listen with the limited TRUE information that is easily available. This is a problem Disney created in 1946, and they’ve only made it worse as time has gone on. It’s sad, but what can you do?

You’re right, but my point is that finally getting WRE would ease much of the sting.

 

[Brer Panther]

So what happened to all those rumors about how the retheme of the Magic Kingdom's version was cancelled or at least postponed indefinitely or whatever? And how does Disney expect to do this when they're currently suffering from financial problems?

Thanks for ruining The Princess and the Frog for me, by the way.

 

[Brer Oswald]

So what happened to all those rumors about how the retheme of the Magic Kingdom's version was cancelled or at least postponed indefinitely or whatever? And how does Disney expect to do this when they're currently suffering from financial problems?

Thanks for ruining The Princess and the Frog for me, by the way.

Let’s break this down.

The rumours aren’t necessarily true. The blanket statement Josh provided doesn’t necessarily make the rumours false, as we have yet been given a timeline. But it is useless to put false hope in something that can’t be proven.

How do they expect to do this? Very cheaply (unless they have a hidden money printer). I wouldn’t be surprised if there happens to be another Splash Mountain retheme in my lifetime. I have been told PatF has many inaccuracies, and I assume this will put a shelf life on it when they start to introduce more black Disney characters.

Why would this ruin your enjoyment of PatF? You can still like the movie and hate the ride, just as you can like the ride and hate the movie.

 

[Brer Panther]

Why would this ruin your enjoyment of PatF? You can still like the movie and hate the ride, just as you can like the ride and hate the movie.

Well, now I can't think about it without thinking about how it's going to replace Splash Mountain. The number of people who support the retheme acting as though it's the savior of Disney just for being the theme Disney chose to replace the Brer Rabbit stuff isn't helping either.

And if Song of the South can ruin Splash Mountain for a good chunk of the people on this site, I see no reason why Tiana's Splash Mountain or How Disney Learned to Stop Worrying and Cater to People on Twitter can't ruin The Princess and the Frog for ME.

By the way, I hate Bob Iger and Frederick Chambers.

 

[Brer Oswald]

Well, now I can't think about it without thinking about how it's going to replace Splash Mountain. The number of people who support the retheme acting as though it's the savior of Disney just for being the theme Disney chose to replace the Brer Rabbit stuff isn't helping either.

And if Song of the South can ruin Splash Mountain for a good chunk of the people on this site, I see no reason why Tiana's Splash Mountain or How Disney Learned to Stop Worrying and Cater to People on Twitter can't ruin The Princess and the Frog for ME.

By the way, I hate Bob Iger and Frederick Chambers.

While I will wholeheartedly agree that the side of the Disney community that repeatedly dump on Splash fans are scummy people, at least consider that maybe you aren’t handling the news the best. I will admit, neither did I, And it certainly didn’t make things better that my former friends started calling all Splash fans “racist” for the sake of having people to witch hunt.

But try to be the bigger person. Don’t hate those people. I’m as upset about the situation as you are, but I’m not going to give the nasty people more reasons to trash me.

Also, there are some perfectly nice people who are excited for the retheme. They’re entitled to that opinion and I don’t like to be disrespectful to them. Maybe teach them about a few things they might not have known about, but in a respectful way

 

[erasure fan1]

I don’t think WRE is any more of an appropriate response than PatF. This isn’t just the destruction of a great ride. This is the defamation of significant cultural stories passed down by Africans and African Americans.

The appropriate thing is to fix the stories they made like you said, then add PatF to another area, but we all know how Disney works. So personally I would rather see something like Western River just flat out replace splash. I just have zero faith in their ability to do a quality overlay that comes even remotely close to the iconic status of splash.

 

[_caleb]

It makes me wonder, do you think that if they have to cancel the retheme due to how expensive it's gonna be (or if they go through with it, it sucks, and everyone hates it) Disney is gonna learn a lesson about not bowing down to people complaining on Twitter?

Disney. Isn't. Doing. This. Because. Of. Twitter.

I beg to differ.

Depressingly, I could picture them doing that. It would still allow them to look like heroes for getting rid of a "racist" attraction.

Depressingly, I could see them doing that too.

Yeah, Disney parks fans will probably just go gaga over the sparkly new Tiana ride and not realize that it's lousy.

I'm not trying to put this thread in a political direction, but, yes. Yes, they are. Consider the facts...

The narrative that Disney is making changes to Splash Mountain because they’re afraid of a “Twitter mob” doesn’t stand up to scrutiny. You bring these same points up in every tread, and they’re not true.

- Splash Mountain is a popular attraction, so why would they be redoing it if not because they want to look good in front of the "Twitter mob" or whatever?

Splash Mountain is popular. But Disney is changing the ride for precisely the reasons they’ve publicly provided: they don’t think the source material makes for an attraction that is welcoming and inclusive.

You overestimate the size and influence of the “Twitter mob” who is calling for the changes to be made, and underestimate the size and influence of the “Twitter mob” who want the ride to stay the same. Between the two, which one do you think is part of Disney’s core audience? Which one spends more money at the parks? And how many of Disney’s actual customers are influenced by Twitter at all? Very few! (Look at how much money and effort Disney puts into advertising on Twitter vs. other media for a hint.)

- The idea of a Princess and the Frog retheme of Splash Mountain is what these folks were demanding. Disney announced it after they demanded it. Coincidence? I think not.

People ”demand” that Disney change/not change things all the time. This is not how Disney decides what they’re going to do/not do. They don’t care about armchair imagineering ideas, hashtag activism, or boycott threats (see the Southern Baptist Convention’s boycott back in the late 90s).

That’s not to say that the timing of the announcement about retheming Splash Mountain was a coincidence. It came during a time when many companies were soul-searching about their part in perpetuating racial insensitivities and inequality. This was different than a “Twitter mob,” it was a mandate from the highest levels of the company, which had already made several expensive and controversial changes to the parks in the name of inclusion and diversity.

- Disney didn't give a crap about The Princess and the Frog for years, brushing it off as a flop and "proof" that hand-drawn films were dangerous. Why would they suddenly want to build a ride about a film they considered a flop?

I’ve told you this before, but The Princess and the Frog was not ever considered a flop. The film doubled its production budget at the box office and outperformed a number of Disney's other animated films in that decade. But John Lasseter wanted the film to spark something of a Renaissance of hand-drawn animation, but the Princess and the Frog didn’t have that effect on the public.

Where the Princess and the Frog was wildly successful, though, was with the African American audience. The bar was low, as there has historically been so little representation of Black people in Disney‘s animated films. But the film’s characters and story successfully captured a perspective and tone that resonated with Black Americans in a way that no other Disney property has. That makes it valuable. And if Disney is trying to distance itself from IP that makes Black Americans feel unwelcome or excluded, Princess and the Frog is a good way to go.

 

[EagleScout610]

The narrative that Disney is making changes to Splash Mountain because they’re afraid of a “Twitter mob” doesn’t stand up to scrutiny. You bring these same points up in every tread, and they’re not true.

Splash Mountain is popular. But Disney is changing the ride for precisely the reasons they’ve publicly provided: they don’t think the source material makes for an attraction that is welcoming and inclusive.

You overestimate the size and influence of the “Twitter mob” who is calling for the changes to be made, and underestimate the size and influence of the “Twitter mob” who want the ride to stay the same. Between the two, which one do you think is part of Disney’s core audience? Which one spends more money at the parks? And how many of Disney’s actual customers are influenced by Twitter at all? Very few! (Look at how much money and effort Disney puts into advertising on Twitter vs. other media for a hint.)

People ”demand” that Disney change/not change things all the time. This is not how Disney decides what they’re going to do/not do. They don’t care about armchair imagineering ideas, hashtag activism, or boycott threats (see the Southern Baptist Convention’s boycott back in the late 90s).

That’s not to say that the timing of the announcement about retheming Splash Mountain was a coincidence. It came during a time when many companies were soul-searching about their part in perpetuating racial insensitivities and inequality. This was different than a “Twitter mob,” it was a mandate from the highest levels of the company, which had already made several expensive and controversial changes to the parks in the name of inclusion and diversity.

I’ve told you this before, but The Princess and the Frog was not ever considered a flop. The film doubled its production budget at the box office and outperformed a number of Disney's other animated films in that decade. But John Lasseter wanted the film to spark something of a Renaissance of hand-drawn animation, but the Princess and the Frog didn’t have that effect on the public.

Where the Princess and the Frog was wildly successful, though, was with the African American audience. The bar was low, as there has historically been so little representation of Black people in Disney‘s animated films. But the film’s characters and story successfully captured a perspective and tone that resonated with Black Americans in a way that no other Disney property has. That makes it valuable. And if Disney is trying to distance itself from IP that makes Black Americans feel unwelcome or excluded, Princess and the Frog is a good way to go.

Meanwhile the Pro Splash groups go to extremes like this. Yes I bleeped names for privacy, except my own. It's stuff like this that gives Splash a bad light, people.

 

[_caleb]

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Meanwhile the Pro Splash groups go to extremes like this. Yes I bleeped names for privacy, except my own. It's stuff like this that gives Splash a bad light, people.

Yeah- this is QAnon levels of crazy. “Lose Splash, lose Disney, lose America forever?“ That’s ridiculous. Also, the desire to blame CMs or armchair imagineers (Frederick Chambers) or random kids on Twitter is bizarre. I understand people being upset about the change, but the mysterious and elaborate backstories people invent to try to cope with (or influence) decisions that have already been made are just wild.

 

[Californian Elitist]

Yeah- this is QAnon levels of crazy. “Lose Splash, lose Disney, lose America forever?“ That’s ridiculous. Also, the desire to blame CMs or armchair imagineers (Frederick Chambers) or random kids on Twitter is bizarre. I understand people being upset about the change, but the mysterious and elaborate backstories people invent to try to cope with (or influence) decisions that have already been made are just wild.

I said this in another thread in the DL forum, but I’ll repeat it here. Anyone who honestly believes that Twitter and that CM are responsible for Splash’s re-theme hasn’t been paying attention over the last decade or maybe even more. In addition, if fans are to blame anyone, they should blame Disney.

Losing Splash means losing Disney, which ultimately means losing America. I can’t take one serious after such a statement. Ridiculous.

 

[EagleScout610]

I said this in another thread in the DL forum, but I’ll repeat it here. Anyone who honestly believes that Twitter and that CM are responsible for Splash’s re-theme hasn’t been paying attention over the last decade or maybe even more.

I've said it in this thread, the WDW thread, the DL thread but I highly doubt PatF going into Splash was only just now considered. I wouldn't be shocked if it was considered when the movie hit theaters. After all, SoTS was considered a no-no by then.

 

[Californian Elitist]

I've said it in this thread, the WDW thread, the DL thread but I highly doubt PatF going into Splash was only just now considered. I wouldn't be shocked if it was considered when the movie hit theaters. After all, SoTS was considered a no-no by then.

Exactly. Disney has refused to officially release SotS for many years now. At this point, it’s a taboo film within the Disney collection, as Disney won’t even speak of the film. They did this.

They had plans prior to the CM making noise about it.

 

[CaptainAmerica]

Splash Mountain is popular. But Disney is changing the ride for precisely the reasons they’ve publicly provided: they don’t think the source material makes for an attraction that is welcoming and inclusive.

No. Disney does not believe that.

 

[UNCgolf]

Twitter is in this weird place where people on it have an outsized idea of its importance, and people in the media do too -- probably because they're also all on Twitter. I think corporations like Disney may understand it more (hence why they don't advertise so much there, as was mentioned).

That's not to say I don't have a Twitter account, because I do, but there actually aren't that many people that do -- something like 20% of US adults have an account. Beyond that, less than half of those people are on Twitter daily, and a much smaller percentage of those users actually tweet or respond to tweets.

I think the final numbers suggest something like 10% of the total user base -- which isn't that big to begin with as I laid out above -- is responsible for 80-90% of the tweets and conversation. Essentially it's a very small percentage of the US population talking to each other while a somewhat higher percentage watches off and on, and the majority of the country pays no attention whatsoever.

 

[WillWrambles]

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Meanwhile the Pro Splash groups go to extremes like this. Yes I bleeped names for privacy, except my own. It's stuff like this that gives Splash a bad light, people.

Moments like this actually serve the other side of the splash arguement much better, because that gives them ammo that can, and will, be used to discredit a person. If you want to win an arguement of any kind, three things are needed; kidness, cordiality, and most importantly, THE WILLINGNESS TO LISTEN.

 

[CaptainAmerica]

Twitter is in this weird place where people on it have an outsized idea of its importance, and people in the media do too -- probably because they're also all on Twitter. I think corporations like Disney may understand it more (hence why they don't advertise so much there, as was mentioned).

That's not to say I don't have a Twitter account, because I do, but there actually aren't that many people that do -- something like 20% of US adults have an account. Beyond that, less than half of those people are on Twitter daily, and a much smaller percentage of those users actually tweet or respond to tweets.

I think the final numbers suggest something like 10% of the total user base -- which isn't that big to begin with as I laid out above -- is responsible for 80-90% of the tweets and conversation. Essentially it's a very small percentage of the US population talking to each other while a somewhat higher percentage watches off and on, and the majority of the country pays no attention whatsoever.

The issue isn't the Twitter users, the issue is cable news and mainstream websites reporting things like "Calls for Disney to Change Attraction with Racist Origins" even if those calls are only among the small faction of Twitter users.

Also, Disney advertises a TON on Twitter so I'm not sure where you got that idea.

 

[UNCgolf]

The issue isn't the Twitter users, the issue is cable news and mainstream websites reporting things like "Calls for Disney to Change Attraction with Racist Origins" even if those calls are only among the small faction of Twitter users.

Also, Disney advertises a TON on Twitter so I'm not sure where you got that idea.

Right, which is what I was alluding to above. Most of the media is on Twitter so they often think it has more importance than it actually does too -- plus it's just an easy (and sometimes lazy) place to come up with a story.

As for advertising, someone else mentioned above that Disney doesn't advertise on Twitter nearly as much as they do on other media and I just took that at face value.

 

[CaptainAmerica]

View attachment 533153View attachment 533154
Meanwhile the Pro Splash groups go to extremes like this. Yes I bleeped names for privacy, except my own. It's stuff like this that gives Splash a bad light, people.

If there's stuff that deserves to be exposed, it should be exposed. Expose everyone for everything, I don't care what the reason is.

EDIT: Wait a second, this kid is a part timer at Disneyland? The implication from the Facebook post is that he's some kind of big shot. He didn't play a "big role" in anything.

 

[_caleb]

The issue isn't the Twitter users, the issue is cable news and mainstream websites reporting things like "Calls for Disney to Change Attraction with Racist Origins" even if those calls are only among the small faction of Twitter users.

Also, Disney advertises a TON on Twitter so I'm not sure where you got that idea.

Disney was Facebook’s top ad buyer, spending $210 million for Disney+ ads alone on Facebook in the US in the first half of 2020. It spent $16 million for Hulu ads on Facebook-owned Instagram between April 15 and June 30. This is just for D+, not individual films/shows, parks, services, etc.

Disney’s Twitter strategy is completely different. Rather than ad buys, they leverage their existing accounts for promotion and try for more a organic reach. These efforts are actually more “newsworthy” in that they represent messages resonating with the number of people who actually engage or retweet them.

Either way, if Disney ONLY wanted to pander to their base, they’d do better to shy away from anything resembling “woke” social/political content. But here they are, making changes. Do these changes align with what a small portion of their audience is calling for? Sure. But I’d like to see some evidence for the idea that Disney is afraid of that small portion of the audience (which is NOT a major source of revenue and has little influence with Disney’s base).

 

[WillWrambles]

Disney was Facebook’s top ad buyer, spending $210 million for Disney+ ads alone on Facebook in the US in the first half of 2020. It spent $16 million for Hulu ads on Facebook-owned Instagram between April 15 and June 30. This is just for D+, not individual films/shows, parks, services, etc.

Disney’s Twitter strategy is completely different. Rather than ad buys, they leverage their existing accounts for promotion and try for more a organic reach. These efforts are actually more “newsworthy” in that they represent messages resonating with the number of people who actually engage or retweet them.

Either way, if Disney ONLY wanted to pander to their base, they’d do better to shy away from anything resembling “woke” social/political content. But here they are, making changes. Do these changes align with what a small portion of their audience is calling for? Sure. But I’d like to see some evidence for the idea that Disney is afraid of that small portion of the audience (which is NOT a major source of revenue and has little influence with Disney’s base).

And plus, if they really were afraid of a small portion of their audience, Mr. Toad would still be open at WDW.