Splash Mountain re-theme announced

[LittleBuford]

Which is really ridiculous considering that one can still see "Birth of a Nation" on youtube.

But that isn't a film for children (sorry for bringing that up again!).

And Song of the South is likewise pretty easy to find online.

 

[UNCgolf]

Which is really ridiculous considering that one can still see "Birth of a Nation" on youtube.

Birth of the Nation is at least historically significant as phenomenal piece of filmmaking, even if the content is abhorrent.

 

[Sharon&Susan]

Walt Minstry: Jungle Book’s Blackface Performance

Disney’s The Jungle Book, released in 1967, was a huge box office success. The film was praised highly for its attention to voice casting as a primary identifier of character’s personality an…

pages.stolaf.edu

What fixes the equivalent scenes in the remake of the "Jungle Book" so that it doesn't need a disclaimer? What makes King Louie who still desires to be human no longer "coded to represent African Americans"?

 

[ImperfectPixie]

But that isn't a film for children (sorry for bringing that up again!).

And Song of the South is likewise pretty easy to find online.

I can only find very short clips these days. I watched it on youtube a couple of years ago, but now it's chopped into pieces with many of them labeled not for viewing in the US.

 

[Brer Panther]

What makes King Louie who still desires to be human no longer "coded to represent African Americans"?

What makes King Louie a representation of African Americans in the first place?

 

[Sue_Vongello]

I can only find very short clips these days. I watched it on youtube a couple of years ago, but now it's chopped into pieces with many of them labeled not for viewing in the US.

There’s plenty of DVDs/Blu Rays on eBay or that you can order from other parts of the world that have released it on DVD. It’s pretty easy to get. I bought a DVD not too long ago from Japan I think.

 

[Rich Brownn]

Which is really ridiculous considering that one can still see "Birth of a Nation" on youtube.

Birth of a Nation is also in the public domain, and no longer restricted by copyright

 

[Rich Brownn]

Since there’s no data, we really can’t say what most people of colour think of the film.

Mammy actually is free for a good portion of Gone with the Wind (in the sense that she has been manumitted by law).

And while rare, many slaves did actually stay with their owners after freedom (especially house slaves). So Mammy's situation while rare, wasn't unique.

 

[doctornick]

Then I expect you to hold Disney accountable if the replacement is anything less than a more diverse, culturally and historically relevant attraction than what exists there right now.

I think a strong case could be made the the Br'er characters on Splash are one of the best representation of African American cultural heritage in popular culture. Promoting that the story of Splash is based on actual African American folks tales would actually be something worthy of "inclusiveness" so of course the plan is instead to just rip it all out.

 

[Chi84]

I think a strong case could be made the the Br'er characters on Splash are one of the best representation of African American cultural heritage in popular culture. Promoting that the story of Splash is based on actual African American folks tales would actually be something worthy of "inclusiveness" so of course the plan is instead to just rip it all out.

I think people are expecting too much out of a theme park ride. Disney may have concluded that little kids would prefer seeing a character/princess who looks like them to Disney "promoting" that the story of Splash is based on actual African American folk tales. They're looking to entertain current and future guests at an amusement park, not to educate African Americans on what stories they should find best represent them in current culture.

 

[LittleBuford]

I think people are expecting too much out of a theme park ride. Disney may have concluded that little kids would prefer seeing a character/princess who looks like them to Disney "promoting" that the story of Splash is based on actual African American folk tales. They're looking to entertain current and future guests at an amusement park, not to educate African Americans on what stories they should find best represent them in current culture.

Before the announcement of the retheme, the notion that Splash Mountain had any educational value was nonexistent. I think it’s perfectly valid to defend the ride, but to do so by claiming that it teaches (or might teach) important lessons about African or African American folklore is a stretch, and a problematic one at that.

 

[Chi84]

Before the announcement of the retheme, the notion that Splash Mountain had any educational value was nonexistent. I think it’s perfectly valid to defend the ride, but to do so by claiming that it teaches (or might teach) important lessons about African or African American folklore is a stretch, and a problematic one at that.

To be fair, though, the defense was based on the attack that the ride was racist. I never saw that in the ride, but I support the re-theme for several reasons I’ve previously stated.

 

[LittleBuford]

To be fair, tough, the defense was based on the attack that the ride was racist.

Good point. Both characterisations are extreme.

 

[doctornick]

Before the announcement of the retheme, the notion that Splash Mountain had any educational value was nonexistent. I think it’s perfectly valid to defend the ride, but to do so by claiming that it teaches (or might teach) important lessons about African or African American folklore is a stretch, and a problematic one at that.

Is anyone saying that the ride is educational in any way? I certainly wasn't indicating that in my last post.

What I was saying is that the ride does celebrate tales that are part of the African and African American folk tradition. For a company committed to inclusion, promoting that fact would make sense. I'm not sure the best way to go about promoting that, but it is still something of value. Especially given our society's appropriate concerns that African American culture needs more representation. But I tend to be a optimistic "how do you build things up" over "how can you tear them down" type of person and YMMV.

I mean, I don't think Snow White's Scary Adventures educates anyone about medieval Germany, but nonetheless the story it is based on is part of European cultural heritage in general.

 

[LittleBuford]

Is anyone saying that the ride is educational in any way? I certainly wasn't indicating that in my last post.

What I was saying is that the ride does celebrate tales that are part of the African and African American folk tradition. For a company committed to inclusion, promoting that fact would make sense.

I would consider this an attempt at education. My intention isn't to put words in your mouth; we might just be working with different definitions.

At any rate, my point is that pushing the "inclusive" angle began after the retheme's announcement. It's a form of retconning that has very little to do with how the ride was viewed and discussed before 2020. My own view is that Splash Mountain is neither racist nor a celebration of African (or African American) folklore. It wasn't themed around Song of the South to offend Black people or to celebrate their heritage, but because Disney had a bunch of leftover animal animatronics from America Sings. The decision to tie the ride to a film that was already regarded by many as problematic ultimately proved to be a miscalculation, because that association can never be fully obliterated and will, for some people at least, taint the ride itself.

If inclusion really is the goal here, I don't think there can be any doubt that The Princess and the Frog is a much better choice than Song of the South.

 

[doctornick]

I would consider this an attempt at education. My intention isn't to put words in your mouth; we might just be working with different definitions.

Maybe? I'm saying the ride as is does not attempt to do any educating. It's just not there as things currently stand. I'm saying the ride (or at least the company in how they promote the ride) could be using it as a chance to educate. That they don't - or haven't ever - is unfortunate, but it would be possible to do so if there were a desire.

At any rate, my point is that pushing the "inclusive" angle began after the retheme's announcement. It's a form of retconning that has very little to do with how the ride was viewed and discussed before 2020. My own view is that Splash Mountain is neither racist nor a celebration of African (or African American) folklore. It wasn't themed around Song of the South to offend Black people or to celebrate their heritage, but because Disney had a bunch of leftover animal animatronics from America Sings. The decision to tie the ride to a film that was already regarded by many as problematic ultimately proved to be a miscalculation, because that association can never be fully obliterated and will, for some people at least, taint the ride itself.

I don't disagree with anything here and realize any attempt to make Splash more culturally inclusive is long past; it's not happening. I'm speaking more on hypotheticals than real world practicality. The ride isn't intended as any sort of cultural homage (not like, say, Maelstrom was).

But that doesn't mean that it couldn't have been or couldn't be in the future; there's just not any particular will from the company to do so. Which, personally, I find sad.

I can only speak to my own experience where, as a result of loving Splash as a ride, years ago I went out of my way to find a (bootleg) SotS to watch and went on to learn more about Joel Chandler Harris and Uncle Remus. And I learned about the original tales that this was based on. And, again just personally, I was happy to have learned more about folklore that I otherwise knew nothing about - and I remember thinking it would be great if this folklore was part of the regular rotation we would see among children's books.

If inclusion really is the goal here, I don't think there can be any doubt that The Princess and the Frog is a much better choice than Song of the South.

See, I would disagree. As I think the vast majority of Americans and people in general are completely ignorant of the cultural basis for Splash Mountain. And I think educating people to make them aware of that real cultural tradition would be far more beneficial than putting in a ride based on a movie which has minimal ties to actual African American culture (even worse is kinda based on a White European fairy tale). I'm not hardcore about it or anything though.

 

[LittleBuford]

I'm saying the ride (or at least the company in how they promote the ride) could be using it as a chance to educate. That they don't - or haven't ever - is unfortunate, but it would be possible to do so if there were a desire.

This is what I understood you to be saying anyway.

I strongly disagree with the second sentence I've quoted. Much more unfortunate would be if Disney twisted itself into knots trying to push the current ride as inclusive or instructive.

See, I would disagree. As I think the vast majority of Americans and people in general are completely ignorant of the cultural basis for Splash Mountain. And I think educating people to make them aware of that real cultural tradition would be far more beneficial than putting in a ride based on a movie which has minimal ties to actual African American culture (even worse is kinda based on a White European fairy tale). I'm not hardcore about it or anything though.

To quote @Chi84, it isn't Disney's job "to educate African Americans on what stories they should find best represent them in current culture". The stories' respective origins matter far less than how the IPs in their present form are perceived. Regardless of its fairytale derivation, The Princess and the Frog has come to enjoy a solid reputation as the film that introduced Disney's first Black princess. That doesn't mean it's the right IP for Splash Mountain, or that Splash Mountain should be changed at all (these are separate issues). All I'm saying is that the inclusivity argument is a losing one for those who advocate keeping the current Song of the South theme. There are other (and better) grounds on which to defend the ride.

 

[Brer Panther]

Aren't there some people who think The Princess and the Frog is racist too?

 

[seabreezept813]

Aren't there some people who think The Princess and the Frog is racist too?

Yes, I teach a fairy tales and pop culture and there’s a lot of criticism about the film. Some basics: voodoo stereotypes, creole accents, etc.

 

[tirian]

Yes, I teach a fairy tales and pop culture and there’s a lot of criticism about the film. Some basics: voodoo stereotypes, creole accents, etc.

I have many coworkers from New Orleans.

All hated the movie and felt it misrepresented everything about the city and “was obviously made by Californians.” The music was wrong, the accents were wrong, the food was wrong (honey doesn’t go on beignets), the voodoo was stereotyped.