It's not the death rate, it's the survival rate. And it has about as much to do with outdoor dining at Downtown Disney as the ICU capacity in Riverside County does.
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Surprise! Red Tier Now Begins Sunday; Downtown Disney Restaurants???
- Thread starter TP2000
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It's not the death rate, it's the survival rate. And it has about as much to do with outdoor dining at Downtown Disney as the ICU capacity in Riverside County does.
Darkbeer1
Well-Known Member
Why not reopen St. Vincent's in LA, they did it earlier this year, including its ICU Beds. A facility designed for only COVID-19 patients.
Los Angeles Surge Hospital to Begin Accepting COVID-19 Patients - California Health and Human Services
>>This temporary facility will expand ICU capacity for patients who contract COVID-19, operating as a dedicated referral hospital. It will not have an emergency room or be equipped to accept walk-up patients. The County of Los Angeles will coordinate transfers and discharges. Dignity Health and Kaiser Permanente will manage the site on behalf of the state.<<
The building is not being used and is available to reopen quickly.....
Why not use a Hospital that has ICU capacity, if the need is so great? The State didn't include it in Surge facilities that will reopen. One the other hand, they are reopening Fairview here in Orange County, A Mental Hospital that remained open until earlier this year as one of the last in California, and has ZERO ICU beds...
Fairview Developmental Center : CA Department of Developmental Services
>>Fairview Developmental Center (FDC) officially opened on January 5, 1959, under the name of Fairview State Hospital. It is located in Costa Mesa, California, a city that is the cultural and commercial center of Orange County. Originally, FDC occupied 752 acres and in 1979, much of the original land transferred to the city of Costa Mesa. FDC‘s beautiful park-like campus sits surrounded on three sides by a 36-hole golf course, built on land sold to the city. Facilities within this community include a work activity center, auditorium, park, recreational campsite and library. Plans are in place to create an outdoor music park. The climate in Costa Mesa is mild, with ocean breezes making FDC a very pleasant place to live and work.<<
Los Angeles Surge Hospital to Begin Accepting COVID-19 Patients - California Health and Human Services
>>This temporary facility will expand ICU capacity for patients who contract COVID-19, operating as a dedicated referral hospital. It will not have an emergency room or be equipped to accept walk-up patients. The County of Los Angeles will coordinate transfers and discharges. Dignity Health and Kaiser Permanente will manage the site on behalf of the state.<<
The building is not being used and is available to reopen quickly.....
Why not use a Hospital that has ICU capacity, if the need is so great? The State didn't include it in Surge facilities that will reopen. One the other hand, they are reopening Fairview here in Orange County, A Mental Hospital that remained open until earlier this year as one of the last in California, and has ZERO ICU beds...
Fairview Developmental Center : CA Department of Developmental Services
>>Fairview Developmental Center (FDC) officially opened on January 5, 1959, under the name of Fairview State Hospital. It is located in Costa Mesa, California, a city that is the cultural and commercial center of Orange County. Originally, FDC occupied 752 acres and in 1979, much of the original land transferred to the city of Costa Mesa. FDC‘s beautiful park-like campus sits surrounded on three sides by a 36-hole golf course, built on land sold to the city. Facilities within this community include a work activity center, auditorium, park, recreational campsite and library. Plans are in place to create an outdoor music park. The climate in Costa Mesa is mild, with ocean breezes making FDC a very pleasant place to live and work.<<
It's always a changing metric, a changing Scary Thing! to worry about, a changing Ominous Graph! to obsess over.
I have no idea what we'll be worrying about in February. Maybe it will be Old People Who Refuse The Vaccine or maybe it will be School Children With Seasonal Allergies Who Haven't Had Covid Yet or some other random health metric.
It used to be Ventilators. Then it was Hospital Beds. Then it was PPE. Then it was a Flu Twindemic. Now it's ICU Capacity.
I stopped trying to keep up months ago. Which is why I just ignore it all and go to Nordstrom and smell the Glade candles at Target. I bought two of the Pine Wonderland candles today in a very busy Target. I bet they'd been touched and sniffed by at least a dozen housewives before I got there at 1pm.
But at least I wasn't at a Socially Distanced and disinfected patio table at Naples Ristorante, because then I would have caught Covid and died!
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fradz
Well-Known Member
I want to bring forward another point of view: Yes, the media makes it a big scary thing. Yes, I'm really sick of it as it's been going on for 9 months now. BUT a full immunity from everyone is not an option right now, and it seems like it can only be (without killing our elders) through vaccination. Therefore taking precautions is necessary, and if the general population is as sick of it as I am, the media needs something "scary" to present (also because according to the media, everything needs to be "exclusive", "BREAKING NEWS", "omg big scary thing")
Darkbeer1
Well-Known Member
Heck went shopping at a Bust Ralphs with Lisa tonight, then stopped at The Little Caboose to get dinner to bring home.
Little Caboose Taco Shop | Facebook
And of course went to The Home Depot, another busy place, last night. Had to be safe, even if some folks didn't understand that your nose is supposed to be covered and Six Feet is more than the length of your shoe...
Little Caboose Taco Shop | Facebook
And of course went to The Home Depot, another busy place, last night. Had to be safe, even if some folks didn't understand that your nose is supposed to be covered and Six Feet is more than the length of your shoe...
Little Caboose. That place looks great! OC has some truly wonderful taco stands, and I will need to try it.
Home Depot. Yikes. I have to go there soon, to get a fresh round of Poinsettia's for the front entry before Christmas. It's always a madhouse there, even in Covid times. What's the Science & Data I wonder on why Home Depot's garden center is still open? Because Poinsettia's and decorative lawn gnomes are Essential Critical Infrastructure?
Darkbeer1
Well-Known Member
At this point it does matter if you add ICU beds, there is NO one left to staff them. ICU bed capacity has been short prior to covid due to cost of open beds. It is what happens when healthcare is for-profit and managed according to the bottom line. Germany was able to open sooner and quicker because they have a much larger hospital capacity.
The United States Healthcare system chickens have come home to roost.
The United States Healthcare system chickens have come home to roost.
Darkbeer1
Well-Known Member
California Gets Surge ICU Staff, Rolls Out App To Notify Users Of Covid-19 Exposure - capradio.org
>>With California health care systems straining under the worst surge of COVID-19 cases since the beginning of the pandemic, the state is bringing in additional workers to help staff surge beds.
Gov. Gavin Newsom announced Monday the state is working to contract with more than 800 medical workers to provide care in the state’s overwhelmed intensive care units and other health care settings. Most will be in place by next Monday, Newsom said.
While staffing is a “paramount” issue, finding “enough people that are not fatigued, that are not exhausted, that we have not asked too much from” has been a challenge, Newsom said.
More than 400 of the workers are being placed in ICU settings, including surge facilities being set up in Imperial County and Northern California, Newsom said. In Sacramento, the old Sleep Train Arena is being prepared to accept patients this week.
Around 300 nurses will be deployed to those alternate care sites, as well as nursing homes, state prisons and other hospitals. Others will fill other needs such as behavioral health, according to Newsom.
The California Hospital Association welcomed the news.
“Across the state, one of our biggest concerns is the availability of staffing, particularly qualified staff who can work in ICU and critical care settings,” spokeswoman Jan Emerson-Shea said. “We can find places to put mattresses and beds, but we need people to staff those.”
She added, “any resource the state is able to bring in to help address those shortages is welcome.”
Newsom said the state has also requested additional staffing from the federal government with an “emphasis” on ICU beds. “We’ll continue to push for more personnel, more medical response,” he added.<<
>>With California health care systems straining under the worst surge of COVID-19 cases since the beginning of the pandemic, the state is bringing in additional workers to help staff surge beds.
Gov. Gavin Newsom announced Monday the state is working to contract with more than 800 medical workers to provide care in the state’s overwhelmed intensive care units and other health care settings. Most will be in place by next Monday, Newsom said.
While staffing is a “paramount” issue, finding “enough people that are not fatigued, that are not exhausted, that we have not asked too much from” has been a challenge, Newsom said.
More than 400 of the workers are being placed in ICU settings, including surge facilities being set up in Imperial County and Northern California, Newsom said. In Sacramento, the old Sleep Train Arena is being prepared to accept patients this week.
Around 300 nurses will be deployed to those alternate care sites, as well as nursing homes, state prisons and other hospitals. Others will fill other needs such as behavioral health, according to Newsom.
The California Hospital Association welcomed the news.
“Across the state, one of our biggest concerns is the availability of staffing, particularly qualified staff who can work in ICU and critical care settings,” spokeswoman Jan Emerson-Shea said. “We can find places to put mattresses and beds, but we need people to staff those.”
She added, “any resource the state is able to bring in to help address those shortages is welcome.”
Newsom said the state has also requested additional staffing from the federal government with an “emphasis” on ICU beds. “We’ll continue to push for more personnel, more medical response,” he added.<<
MoonRakerSCM
Well-Known Member
What upsets me the most is that these politicians and their ilk are the ones who are screaming from the rooftops about how people need to follow the science. Lying sacks of hypocrite, the whole lot of them and their supporters.
Governor Newsom's four children all attend the expensive Country Day School for in-person teaching five days per week. They also have a very nice playground there the children use. Sacramento Unified School District public schools are still closed and all students remain at home for "distance learning".
It's a shame Sacramento is so far from Downtown Disney, because that place is suddenly a ghost town this week due to all the restaurants being closed now. Those bored public school kids could take a Downtown Disney field trip!
This blogger does a great job of showing Before/After video clips of how quickly Downtown Disney emptied out into a ghost town this week, compared to just one week ago...
el_super
Well-Known Member
Yep. How dangerous is it to have places like Downtown Disney open, when it takes an hour to transfer an ambulance call to the ER?
“The health care system in Orange County is now in crisis resulting from an overwhelming increase in the number of COVID infected patients,” reads the directive, issued by Dr. Carl Schultz, the Emergency Medical Services medical director.
Schultz said hospitals could ease stress by cancelling all elective surgeries.
Without intervention, county officials warn that Orange County’s emergency medical services could collapse.
OC Hospitals Urged to Trigger Surge Plans, Halt Elective Surgeries as Coronavirus Hospitalizations Soar
Officials say skyrocketing hospitalizations are forcing the OC Health Care Agency to call for hospitals to halt non-emergency procedures.
voiceofoc.org
So looks like they have to start cancelling heart surgery for Grandma so that some people can go get a haircut.
Yep. How dangerous is it to have places like Downtown Disney open, when it takes an hour to transfer an ambulance call to the ER?
“The health care system in Orange County is now in crisis resulting from an overwhelming increase in the number of COVID infected patients,” reads the directive, issued by Dr. Carl Schultz, the Emergency Medical Services medical director.Schultz said hospitals could ease stress by cancelling all elective surgeries.Without intervention, county officials warn that Orange County’s emergency medical services could collapse.OC Hospitals Urged to Trigger Surge Plans, Halt Elective Surgeries as Coronavirus Hospitalizations Soar
Officials say skyrocketing hospitalizations are forcing the OC Health Care Agency to call for hospitals to halt non-emergency procedures.
So looks like they have to start cancelling heart surgery for Grandma so that some people can go get a haircut.
I'm pretty sure Grandma having a heart attack is not "elective surgery".
Provide the Science & Data that shows Outdoor Dining is responsible for spreading Covid. But make sure you forward that Science & Data to LA County's legal team and Dr. Barbara Ferrer, because they couldn't provide any of that data to the judge on Tuesday.
And Cc Dr. Ghaly on that too, because the legal team that just spanked LA County is headed up to Sacramento next.
Well geez. You don't expect him to take chances with his kids' educations, did you?
el_super
Well-Known Member
Your reading comprehension still has a lot to be desired. From the very same article I posted above:
“Ambulance EMTs are waiting hours just to transfer patients from their vehicles to emergency departments. This results in dangerous delays in initial patient assessments to ensure they don’t have an emergency medical condition,’ the directive states.
And:
“You can wait only so long to put in a heart valve, or a catheter … they’re elective for a day or two, not months,” Ghaly said. “We want that capacity to be there for you when a car accident happens … or a heart attack or stroke.”
You don't seem to understand the gravity of the situation, so your comments against the lockdowns are, at best, just ill informed.
Do you really need the "science" that shows that any form of human interaction carries a risk of virus transmission? For someone who seems to be an expert on the Flu, how do you not understand how viruses are transmitted?
If you really need the science you will have to give me a day or two. Those ancient greek stone tablets are heavy and hard to translate.
When did I become the Flu expert?!? My knowledge of the Flu is pretty much contained to my annual flu shot, the medicine aisle at Target, and my ability to sing the Alka-Seltzer jingle.
This really is about Outdoor Dining. There appears to be no Science & Data that politicians and bureaucrats are using to close Outdoor Dining, among a few other industries (barbers, salons, etc.)
LA County had their countywide Outdoor Dining ban overturned by a judge on Tuesday because the legal team could present no actual evidence of any Science & Data they were using to close dining patios and thus put restaurants out of business. The judge was mad they came to court a week ago without any data and gave them a week to come up with their evidence. He spanked them hard on Tuesday in a 53 page brief that ruled in favor of the restaurants.
Anyone who has that Science & Data should send it to Dr. Ghaly in Sacramento immediately. He needs it ASAP because the LA lawyers are heading to Sacramento now.
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lazyboy97o
Well-Known Member
Those elective surges are also how hospitals make money, not Medicare fraud. There’s a whole team of people beyond the doctors and nurses who make a surgery happen, from administrators who handle the paperwork to custodians who keep operating rooms clean and stocked. People who would have less or no work without the surgeries taking place.Yep. How dangerous is it to have places like Downtown Disney open, when it takes an hour to transfer an ambulance call to the ER?
“The health care system in Orange County is now in crisis resulting from an overwhelming increase in the number of COVID infected patients,” reads the directive, issued by Dr. Carl Schultz, the Emergency Medical Services medical director.Schultz said hospitals could ease stress by cancelling all elective surgeries.Without intervention, county officials warn that Orange County’s emergency medical services could collapse.OC Hospitals Urged to Trigger Surge Plans, Halt Elective Surgeries as Coronavirus Hospitalizations Soar
Officials say skyrocketing hospitalizations are forcing the OC Health Care Agency to call for hospitals to halt non-emergency procedures.
So looks like they have to start cancelling heart surgery for Grandma so that some people can go get a haircut.
el_super
Well-Known Member
Not really. This has always been about preserving lives during a pandemic.
As someone who has been out doing my Christmas shopping the past few days, I thought about all the interactions I've had doing that.
All the stuff you touch at Target, just to put it in your cart. How many others touched it before you did? How many hundreds of people are inside a Nordstrom or Target at any one time, even with the "20% capacity" rule that doesn't seem to do anything. How many thousands and thousands of Christmas shoppers tromp through that same space every single day?
But sitting at a Socially Distanced patio table that is disinfected after each use is somehow more dangerous than that? There's no Science & Data to explain that conundrum, because if there was LA County's legal team representing Dr. Ferrer would have presented it to the judge on Tuesday.
All the stuff you touch at Target, just to put it in your cart. How many others touched it before you did? How many hundreds of people are inside a Nordstrom or Target at any one time, even with the "20% capacity" rule that doesn't seem to do anything. How many thousands and thousands of Christmas shoppers tromp through that same space every single day?
But sitting at a Socially Distanced patio table that is disinfected after each use is somehow more dangerous than that? There's no Science & Data to explain that conundrum, because if there was LA County's legal team representing Dr. Ferrer would have presented it to the judge on Tuesday.
el_super
Well-Known Member
Going to Target, Waltmart or any grocery store is dangerous in a pandemic. The danger has to be accepted because people need food and groceries to live. Yes, they could go so far as to clarify which items Target and Walmart could sell, but that smells of the same kind of government overreach you lile to mock, so I doubt you are sincerely advocating for that.
What you don't need to live, is to eat outside on a patio, when takeout satisfies the same exact need of getting you fed, and keeping small businesses afloat.