Surprise! Red Tier Now Begins Sunday; Downtown Disney Restaurants???

Darkbeer1

Well-Known Member
Coronavirus: Playgrounds allowed to stay open as state quietly reverses ban – Orange County Register (ocregister.com)

>>To the relief of parents, California quietly reversed the outdoor playground ban Wednesday in its regional stay-home order, which is now in effect for the state’s southern half and many Bay Area counties to control spread of the coronavirus.

The stay-home order announced last Thursday listed outdoor playgrounds as off limits in affected regions. It also bans outdoor dining at restaurants, but encourages other outdoor activity like hiking or going to the beach.

The California Department of Public Health confirmed the update Wednesday.

“Playgrounds may remain open to facilitate physically distanced personal health and wellness through outdoor exercise,” the department said in a statement. Playgrounds located on schools that remain open for in-person instruction, and not accessible by the general public, may remain open and must follow guidance for schools and school-based programs.<<
 

Stevek

Well-Known Member
I'm honestly trying to wrap my head around some of these theories.

Newsom is trying to destroy the economy of CA
Newsom hates Disney and wants to purposely bankrupt the company
This is all some grand scheme to get rid of gas powered cars

and countless more over the last several months.

There are reasonable arguments to be made about what should and should not be open or should stay closed. The above theories do not help the cause of those wanting to reopen more industries.
Mask Reaction GIF by Robert E Blackmon
 

October82

Well-Known Member
Since every one of these shutdown orders are established solely on data and science and not just at the random whims of politicians and health departments, I can't wait to see the new data and science that supports this change that was just discovered over the past couple of days.

I understand the desire for policy that is this disruptive not to seem arbitrary, but these shutdown orders absolutely are based on data and science. It's hard to understate how bad the situation is right now and how much worse it will be by the end of the year if we do not mitigate the spread, and the policies that worked over the summer are no longer effective (for a variety of reasons). What the science says - for obvious and uncontroversial reasons - is that multiple households gathering drives the spread of the disease. Anywhere in which people are gathering for extended periods of time without wearing masks is a risk.

What policy makers in public health have to balance is the costs and benefits of closing each of those sorts of places. That assessment can change and not because the policies were ever based on "whims of politicians". It's really sad to see how little trust people have for public health officials, who with rare exception, are experts that have dedicated their lives to ensuring all of our health and safety. These people are facing impossible choices and I can't imagine any of us doing better given the circumstances.
 

MisterPenguin

President of Animal Kingdom
Premium Member
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So... Move to Texas?...

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In El Paso, hospitals reported that just 13 of 400 intensive care beds were not occupied last week. In Fargo, N.D., there were just three. In Albuquerque, there were zero.
More than a third of Americans live in areas where hospitals are running critically short of intensive care beds, federal data show, revealing a newly detailed picture of the nation’s hospital crisis during the deadliest week of the Covid-19 epidemic.
Hospitals serving more than 100 million Americans reported having fewer than 15 percent of intensive care beds still available as of last week, according to a Times analysis of data reported by hospitals and released by the Department of Health and Human Services.
Many areas are even worse off: One in 10 Americans — across a large swath of the Midwest, South and Southwest — lives in an area where intensive care beds are either completely full, or fewer than 5 percent of beds are available. At these levels, experts say maintaining existing standards of care for the sickest patients may be difficult or impossible.
“There’s only so much our frontline care can offer, particularly when you get to these really rural counties which are being hit hard by the pandemic right now,” said Beth Blauer, director of the Centers for Civic Impact at Johns Hopkins University.
Sharp increases in Covid-19 patients can overwhelm smaller hospitals, she said. “This disease progresses very quickly and can get very ugly very fast. When you don’t have that capacity, that means people will die.”
The new dataset, released on Monday, marks the first time the federal government has published detailed geographic information on Covid-19 patients in hospitals, something public health officials have long said would be crucial to responding to the epidemic and understanding its impact.
 

Stevek

Well-Known Member
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So... Move to Texas?...

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In El Paso, hospitals reported that just 13 of 400 intensive care beds were not occupied last week. In Fargo, N.D., there were just three. In Albuquerque, there were zero.
More than a third of Americans live in areas where hospitals are running critically short of intensive care beds, federal data show, revealing a newly detailed picture of the nation’s hospital crisis during the deadliest week of the Covid-19 epidemic.
Hospitals serving more than 100 million Americans reported having fewer than 15 percent of intensive care beds still available as of last week, according to a Times analysis of data reported by hospitals and released by the Department of Health and Human Services.
Many areas are even worse off: One in 10 Americans — across a large swath of the Midwest, South and Southwest — lives in an area where intensive care beds are either completely full, or fewer than 5 percent of beds are available. At these levels, experts say maintaining existing standards of care for the sickest patients may be difficult or impossible.
“There’s only so much our frontline care can offer, particularly when you get to these really rural counties which are being hit hard by the pandemic right now,” said Beth Blauer, director of the Centers for Civic Impact at Johns Hopkins University.
Sharp increases in Covid-19 patients can overwhelm smaller hospitals, she said. “This disease progresses very quickly and can get very ugly very fast. When you don’t have that capacity, that means people will die.”
The new dataset, released on Monday, marks the first time the federal government has published detailed geographic information on Covid-19 patients in hospitals, something public health officials have long said would be crucial to responding to the epidemic and understanding its impact.
I'm surprised the hospital ship hasn't already been brought back to San Pedro. I believe there are several contingency plans in place to open other facilities as needed.
 

Darkbeer1

Well-Known Member
Councilman Trevor O'Neil Blasts Latest Newsom COVID Lockdown Strategy - Anaheim Independent

>>

Councilman Trevor O’Neil Blasts Latest Newsom COVID Lockdown Strategy​

Posted by: Matthew Cunningham in Coronavirus, COVID-19, District 6, Government & Politics, Trevor O'Neil December 9, 2020



Following the swearing in of the new and re-elected councilmembers last night, District 6 Councilman Trevor O’Neil used the council comments portion of the meeting to take aim at the latest in Governor Newsom’s ever-changing criteria and strategies for coping with the COVID-19 pandemic:

We have now been subjected to another stay at home order that is just crushing our already struggling economy. Many residents and businesses continue to let me know they believe these latest shut-down orders are arbitrary and unfair. Gatherings of any number – even outside – have been banned. I can’t meet with one friend in a local park, even if we stay six feet away and wear masks, outside! We have a new ban on outdoor dining, which is one of the few things keeping some of our resort businesses and restaurant owners hanging on – even though there is no evidence that outdoor dining causes any significant spread of COVID-19. Meanwhile, hundreds of patrons are still allowed to swarm to Costco, Target, and other big box stores to do their holiday shopping.

As we all know, the city of Anaheim has done more to assist our residents and businesses with this global pandemic than any city in the county. We’ve passed rental and housing assistance, small business grants. We’ve organized food distributions, mask distributions, COVID-19 testing and more.

We have done everything we can to work within the parameters that Governor and state health officials have placed upon us, but our residents and businesses are still hurting – and more now than ever. Thousands of people are out of work. Long established businesses are going under. And the timing couldn’t be worse during the holiday season, which is supposed to be the most wonderful time of the year.

California’s Blueprint for a Safer Economy provides a one-size-fits-all approach to reopening communities that fails to allow the flexibility to respond in a data-driven way to what is happening within our own community. We have been pigeon-holed into a region sharing health standards that not only touches neighboring counties, but that stretches hundreds of miles to the north through mountains, deserts, farmlands – areas that couldn’t be more geographically different from Anaheim and Orange County.

And so, I’d like to agendize a council resolution appealing to the Governor and state health officials, imploring them to include local input and to use evidence-based reasoning in their decision to implement shut-downs or delay further reopening. As I have said many times, how we deal with the pandemic does not have to be a choice between public health and the economy, the two can coexist. But as a city that has been more economically impacted by COVID than perhaps any other in the country, it is incumbent upon us to do everything we can to make sure our voices are heard and that we stand up for our residents and businesses.


Councilman O’Neil hits the nail directly on the head. It is painfully clear Governor Newsom’s ever-evolving policies are not driven by data and science, lack common sense and consistency, and have been more successful at inflicting damage on the economy and people’s livelihoods than on containing the coronavirus.<<

FYI, the request to place the resolution was approved, and should be on next week's agenda.
 

lazyboy97o

Well-Known Member
I'm surprised the hospital ship hasn't already been brought back to San Pedro. I believe there are several contingency plans in place to open other facilities as needed.
In the past 10 months many hospitals have increased their bed count or developed plans to increase their bed count. They also have standard surge plans that they'll use a few times in a bad winter. They're not asking for the military to set up beds because that's not really the problem. The shortage is qualified personel. Earlier in the year it was less of an issue as people were able to travel from less affected areas to help out but now nearly everywhere is affected.
 

Darkbeer1

Well-Known Member
Are they doing anything to address the declining hospital capacity?

Well, Hospitals are under the Orange County Health Care Agency, not the city of Anaheim. But the city has been working with the OCHCA to do things like expand testing (We just took advantage of the At Home Saliva test.)

Free at-home COVID-19 test kits now available to residents in Santa Ana, Anaheim | KTLA

But any request from a Hospital in the city, such as allowing tents, or other items that need approval for Code Requirements would get emergency approval.
 

el_super

Well-Known Member
Maybe the Anaheim City Council should take a look at what's going on around them before making such hasty decisions:

At least three counties in the San Joaquin Valley have reached 0% capacity in their hospitals’ intensive care units, making the state’s agricultural hub the first area in California to become maxed out.
“All the things that you’re hearing about how impacted our hospitals are, about how dire this situation with our ICUs is, it’s absolutely true,” said Dr. Rais Vohra, Fresno County Department of Public Health’s interim health officer.
With ICU capacity depleted, patients with serious COVID-19 cases may take up open beds in the emergency department, said Fresno County emergency medical services director Dan Lynch. He said the county expects to activate an alternate care site for overflow patients at the Porterville Developmental Center on Monday. The facility, which can hold 123 people, would begin with 20 to 25 patients while waiting for ICU staffing to ramp up.
Miguel Arias, president of the Fresno City Council, said he and his colleagues have been working furiously to avoid reaching this point. They have fined businesses that violate health orders, distributed protective equipment and sanitizers and asked people to wear masks and maintain social distance.
“Even with all that, we have come to a point where, Monday, we officially reached that epicenter that we’ve all been trying to avoid,” Arias said in an interview Tuesday afternoon.
 

TP2000

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
Judge says L.A. County acted ‘arbitrarily’ closing outdoor dining in tentative ruling – Daily News

>>The judge noted that the county has shown surging COVID-19 cases are “burdening the health care system and action is necessary.” He also said the county has presented “generalized evidence” of transmission risk from outdoor dining.

But he said the county’s assertion that the virus can be spread in restaurants by patrons spending extended periods of time without masks “only weakly supports the closure of outdoor restaurant dining, because it ignores the outdoor nature of the activity, which the CDC (U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention) says carries only a moderate risk, and less with mitigations.”

While the state’s order will be in place until Dec. 27, at a minimum, the county could foreseeably extend its own outdoor dining ban set to expire on Dec. 16 to extend beyond the state’s order — but only “after conducting an appropriate risk-benefit analysis,” the judge said.

Chalfant wrote that he can’t dictate what that analysis should entail, but suggested that the county “could be expected to consider the economic cost of closing 30,000 restaurants, the impact to restaurant owners and their employees and the psychological and emotional cost to a public tired of the pandemic and seeking some form of employment in their lives.”<<

Today the same lawyer who brought this case against LA County, which LA County got a spanking over for their complete lack of evidence and data why they closed Outdoor Dining, is bringing a similar case against the State of California.

KFI here in SoCal just a few minutes ago unearthed a recorded comment by Dr. Ghaly, the state's health director, admitting on tape that the statewide dining ban has no data behind it.

This is a big deal. Restaurants could now sue for damages and bankrupt LA County and/or the state.

It also puts incredible political pressure on Sacramento to reverse their dining bans. This would possibly reopen Downtown Disney restaurants sooner rather than later. A January reopening instead of an April reopening?
 
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It’s really weird to be in a country where we have more restrictions and shutdowns right now than California, but are getting support from the government to get through it, and read about people excitedly suing to have things opened up during the strongest wave of a pandemic that’s been completely mismanaged in almost every way by their government.

Too many Americans need to direct their energies towards getting support from the federal/state government instead of deciding that suing to reopen is the smart thing to do.
 

Darkbeer1

Well-Known Member
Costs must be weighed against benefits: Walter E. Williams – Orange County Register (ocregister.com)

>>One of the first lessons in an economics class is every action has a cost.

That is in stark contrast to lessons in the political arena where politicians virtually ignore cost and talk about benefits and free stuff. If we look only at the benefits of an action, policy or program, then we will do anything because there is a benefit to any action, policy or program.

Think about one simple example. The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration estimates that 36,096 Americans lost their lives in motor vehicle traffic crashes in 2019. Virtually all those lives could have been saved if we had a 5 mph speed limit. The huge benefit of a 5 mph speed limit is that those 36,000-plus Americans would have been with us instead of lost in highway carnage.

Fortunately, we look at the costs of having a 5 mph speed limit and rightly conclude that saving those 36,000-plus lives are not worth the costs and inconvenience. Most of us find it too callous, when talking about life, to explicitly weigh costs against benefits. We simply say that a 5 mph speed limit would be impractical.

What about the benefits and costs of dealing with the COVID-19 pandemic?

Much of the medical profession and politicians say that lockdowns, social distancing and mask-wearing are the solutions. CDC data on death rates show if one is under 35, the chances of dying from COVID-19 is much lower than that of being in a bicycle accident. Should we lockdown bicycles?

Dr. Martin Kulldorff, professor of medicine at Harvard University, biostatistician and epidemiologist, Dr. Sunetra Gupta, professor at Oxford University and an epidemiologist with expertise in immunology, and Dr. Jay Bhattacharya, professor at Stanford University Medical School, a physician and epidemiologist were the initiators of the Great Barrington Declaration.

More than 50,000 scientists and doctors, as well as more than 682,000 ordinary people, have signed the Great Barrington Declaration opposing a second COVID-19 lockdown because they see it doing much more harm than good.

Efforts to keep very young from getting COVID-19, given most will not even realize they have it or will suffer only mild symptoms, may be counterproductive in that it delays the point where a country has herd immunity.

According to the CDC, COVID-19 deaths in young people (from babies to college students) are almost nonexistent. The first age group to provide a substantial contribution to the death toll is 45-54 years, who contribute nearly 5 percent of all coronavirus deaths. More than 80 percent of deaths occur in people aged 65 and over. That increases to over 92 percent if the 55-64 age group is included.

Thus, only a tiny number of people under age 25 die of COVID-19. Yet, schools have been closed, and tens of millions of schoolchildren have been denied in-class instruction. Mandating that 5-year-olds wear masks during their school day is beyond nonsense. Virtual learning can serve as a substitute for in-class teaching but it has mixed results. Some parents can provide their children with the necessary tools, perhaps hire tutors, and take an active interest in what their children are doing online. Other parents will not have the interest, ability or the time.

Here is a lockdown question for you. Government authorities permit groceries and pharmacies to remain open during lockdowns. They permitted stores likes Walmart, Costco and Sam’s Club to remain open. However, these stores sell items that are also sold in stores that were locked down such as: Macy’s, J.C. Penney, J. Crew Group, Neiman Marcus and Bed Bath & Beyond. The lack of equal treatment caused many employees to lose their jobs and many formerly financially healthy retailers have filed for bankruptcy.


As political satirist H. L. Mencken said, “The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed (and hence clamorous to be led to safety) by menacing it with an endless series of hobgoblins, all of them imaginary.”

By the way, the best time to scare people, be wrong and persist in being wrong is when the costs of being wrong are borne by others.

Walter E. Williams was a professor of economics at George Mason University. This was Walter Williams’ final column before passing on Dec. 1.<<

Rest in Peace, Mr. Williams. Thanks for choosing to be an Educator and expressing your viewpoints.
 
Car crashes aren’t contagious.

We’ve all heard the argument that we should sacrifice grandma for the economy. Just ignore millions of new and preventable deaths. There’s a couple reasons no one seriously tries that. A) It’s morbid. B) It doesn’t work. When people are scared to shop, they stay home and stores die anyways.

Most of the rest of the post talks about the virus as if it’s not contagious either. Younger people give it to their parents and other older people.
 

TP2000

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
It’s really weird to be in a country where we have more restrictions and shutdowns right now than California, but are getting support from the government to get through it, and read about people excitedly suing to have things opened up during the strongest wave of a pandemic that’s been completely mismanaged in almost every way by their government.

Too many Americans need to direct their energies towards getting support from the federal/state government instead of deciding that suing to reopen is the smart thing to do.

The LA County situation on Outdoor Dining, and this week's ruling that the County acted arbitrarily and had no evidence to support their case to shut down Outdoor Dining, is an interesting one because what few data points the County offered to the judge completely destroyed their case.

For instance, the Contact Tracing done by LA County showed that 3.1% (Three point one, not thirty one) of Covid cases in LA County were traced to "restaurants". But almost all of that tracing led to Covid cases with employees of fast food restaurants who work in small kitchens serving the drive-thru windows. There was no real evidence that could trace Covid cases to sit-down indoor dining in restaurants, let alone the outdoor dining patios set up since summer.

That same contact tracing showed that 7.2% of Covid cases in LA could be traced to government agencies, specifically the offices where the public comes in to interact with government agencies. But government offices are still open, while thousands of restaurants have been put out of business because they aren't allowed to run their patio dining any longer.

This is currently only a legal situation for LA County. But LA County has just over 10 Million people in it and for decades has had a robust and well-funded county government with plenty of bureaucrats all tripping over each other. And the legal team who just spanked LA County over this Outdoor Dining situation is now headed up to do the same in Sacramento.

For those outside of SoCal, here's a few stats on how wealthy and powerful the County of Los Angeles is;

Los Angeles County Stats
Population = 10.1 Million, roughly the same as Georgia or slightly more than Michigan
Square Miles = 4,570 Square Miles, slightly smaller than Connecticut
Gross Domestic Product = $707 Billion, the same as Switzerland or all of Oregon/Nevada/Arizona combined


Los Angeles County is a single county with more money, more power, more people, and more influence than many European countries. And they have no idea what they are doing and just got told so in court. Next stop, Sacramento!
 
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TP2000

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
I understand the desire for policy that is this disruptive not to seem arbitrary, but these shutdown orders absolutely are based on data and science.

Here's the problem with that, my friend. If there was data and science behind the shutdown of Outdoor Dining, then that would have been presented in court this week.

LA County was actually supposed to present that in court the previous week, but when the County legal team arrived before the judge they had nothing. The judge was furious and sent them back to their office for a week and told them to come back yesterday with all the Science & Data they used to shut down Outdoor Dining.

They came back to court yesterday, and... still had nothing.

Not only did they not have any science and data to prove they used science and data in their decisions, the little data they presented actually harmed their case because it showed that government offices have over double the rate of Covid transmission as restaurants do; 7.1% for county government offices to 3.1% for LA restaurants. And most of those restaurant cases are coming from employees at fast food joints, not sit-down restaurants.

So the judge spanked them and ruled in favor of the restaurants. Next stop, Sacramento! The same legal team that won this resounding victory over LA County's Science & Data (or complete lack thereof) is now headed to Sacramento to sue the state for the exact same thing.

Science & Data! But don't ask any government official to prove it or show their work, please.

 
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TP2000

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
Fair enough, then what specific data and science changed from Sunday when the data and science said all playgrounds must be closed to Wed when the data and science said that all playgrounds are allowed to be open?

There was no Science & Data that changed because there was no Science & Data that showed that playgrounds were spreading Covid.

For example, the playground at Sacramento's Country Day School, the private school that is still allowed to operate for in-person teaching for Governor Newsom's four children, is allowed to be used by those children. But the playground at the public school in a far less fashionable part of town that was closed for in-person teaching had to be closed. Lower class children have different types of diseases, you understand. They're dirty and dangerous. And their parents eat at dirty and unfashionable places like Applebee's, not at The French Laundry where it's completely safe.

But after a couple of weeks of that playground insanity, the rules changed. The Science & Data didn't change.

What changed the rules is that a bunch of fed-up parents finally pushed back against their Sacramento betters.

This is what's also happening with restaurants. Suddenly many counties are not enforcing the ban on restaurants who are still operating, and even some recent liquor license fines have been reversed this week because too many restauranteurs are pushing back and fighting back.

There are still broad swaths of leftist LA County who are too scared to fight back, and many corporate locations are playing along. But here in OC, just a quick drive down the hill today confirmed what the neighbors were saying; our favorite neighborhood restaurants are still operating their patio dining and still serving customers in open defiance of the ban.

You won't get a big corporate place like Downtown Disney to do this, but drive into a small neighborhood in OC and look around; restaurants are still open and defying Sacramento! You can't even call them a Speakeasy, because it's just all out in the open.
 
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