Sirwalterraleigh
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Coronavirus and Walt Disney World general discussion
- Thread starter Parker in NYC
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Didn’t she teach at Harvard? But yes, throw ‘em off the trail.
Those are face masks for the monorail resorts.
Sirwalterraleigh
Premium Member
Don’t take away ma freedom, ya Yankee
GoofGoof
Premium Member
I agree that the proper answer is masks, distancing and smart precautions. I feel like that’s exactly what has been happening here in PA. We have a Democratic Governor who is left center and definitely hasn’t been pushing lockdowns. We have a mask mandate, we have smart and sensible precautions and with some limitations we have most businesses open. On the Covid front PA is 9th best in cases per capita so it’s definitely been better than a lot of places. The problem is people always talk in absolutes. It’s either lockdown or fully open. It’s either public health or the economy.
In reality the economic impact of restrictions is still unknown. There’s some research that the places with more restrictions and better health records recovered faster after the 1918 pandemic than those that didn‘t.
The data speak: Stronger pandemic response yields better economic recovery
A study the 1918-1919 flu pandemic suggests taking care of public health first generates a stronger economic rebound later. The study, co-authored by MIT economist Emil Verner, finds cities that acted more emphatically to limit social and civic interactions had more economic growth following the...
news.mit.edu
correcaminos
Well-Known Member
Cannot say that of Ohio.
DisneyCane
Well-Known Member
"Orange County Mayor Jerry Demings said Monday that his staff will draft an order to impose fines on businesses that don’t enforce social distancing, require employees to wear masks or other guidelines to stop the spread of the coronavirus — a move the mayor said he believes is legal despite Gov. Ron DeSantis’ order prohibiting such fines against individuals.
Demings, who hinted for weeks that he might take that step, made the announcement at the first county briefing since before Thanksgiving and the long holiday weekend, when videos surfaced from inside two Orlando nightclubs that showed patrons without masks and packed tightly together. He said he’ll finalize a decision this week on whether or how to impose the fines and did not give a range of the dollar amounts."
“We will likely structure it for what I call habitual [offenders], who have been found to be non-compliant multiple-times,” Demings said. “You know, we have talked about this for several weeks now and we have gotten compliance up. But we still, for whatever reason, have a few bad actors, who just are insistent that they’re going to continue to disregard common sense guidelines that the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention have recommended. So I’m going to have to move to the next level.”
Orange County Mayor Demings moves to fine businesses that don’t follow CDC guidelines
Orange County Mayor Jerry Demings said Monday that his staff will draft an order to impose fines on businesses that don’t enforce social distancing, require employees to wear masks or other g…www.orlandosentinel.com
Nothing in the Governor's order prevents fining businesses so I don't know why the mayor would only "believe" it is legal. Perhaps bad paraphrasing by the reporter. There seems to be a belief in this thread that his order removed all measures and made everything like it is pre-COVID. It doesn't. It still allows for capacity limits and social distancing. The one case that is not completely true is that it says no restaurant can be required to operate under 50% capacity. There are probably some which can't do 6' distancing and be at 50% capacity.
It's difficult to tell from a single quote without follow up or clarification but he may have been referring to doses as in the total necessary to vaccinate somebody, not literal doses as in injections. He also says there will be over 300 million doses available "well before then" which could mean he is talking about two different things, 300 million doses on one hand and enough for everybody who wants it on the other hand.
Pennsylvania didn't have a summer spike but wasn't there a lot shut down over the summer? I could be wrong but I have a monthly business call with somebody who lives in PA and I remember her making comments about restrictions. As for the present, for 7 day rolling average, PA is currently at 521 cases per million population and FL is currently at 363 cases per million. This while your Governor is doing everything measured, sensibly and correctly and our Governor is a bumbling idiot doing everything wrong. If you believe that Wolf is doing the right thing then how can you argue that DeSantis is doing the wrong thing based upon the recent data?
GoofGoof
Premium Member
The vast majority of businesses in PA were open all summer. Restaurants had indoor dining capacity limits and that was about it. You can cherry pick a time period to make things look better or worse but that’s just playing games. The FL governor is using the same tired argument made on these boards that if another state has a mask mandate and the cases don‘t go to zero that means masks don’t work. He called out Minnesota, Michigan and Illinois as having surging cases despite masks. Nobody ever said a mask mandate would eliminate all cases. It’s basic math. If masks work to slow spread (and they do - there is data that shows that) then whatever the case number is it would have been higher without masks. It’s not hard to comprehend but when people want to justify their narrative it’s easier to just find numbers that fit that narrative.
DisneyCane
Well-Known Member
I'm not cherry picking time periods. I'm talking about the current situation and the current spike. There's no narrative. I'm comparing two Governors, one who you praise for doing the right things and one who you criticize for doing the wrong things. The data for the current situation would argue that the state doing everything right is no better off then the one doing everything wrong.
SamusAranX
Well-Known Member
47.5 percent of statistics are made up on the spot.
That said, I think he did have a valid question; why is PA's cases per million (which has been used as a metric in this thread before to show why the US is performing badly) higher then Florida's even though restrictions are currently in place? I'm not against mandates, I just wonder why, for now, its that way. I would be interested to know why; maybe Floridians might be out and about more but not having indoor gatherings as much with the nice weather? While PA businesses may be under restrictions, but many people are gathering privately in homes, in big groups (say larger then 5) against gov't recommendations. I have also noticed that despite no threat of consequences from authorities, many more people are voluntarily masking up here; even my rural, small town Walmart has improved drastically.
I still want to know what all these deniers and minimizers say to the long-lasting effects from having COVID and “recovering”. I’m honestly curious to how you are going to pivot from that. That’s what scares me at this point, far more than a body count. When you’re dead you’re dead, doesn’t seem to matter much with the conservative dismissal crowd. But alive with long-lasting health ramifications? Now, that’s just cruel to ignore. But using #babykiller seems to absolve one from having any kind of moral conscience.
Chip Chipperson
Well-Known Member
I believe the part I bolded and underlined is a huge reason for the increase. Cases in NJ starting increasing again a couple weeks after indoor dining was allowed but the numbers have gotten worse and worse as the weather got cooler. People don't want to have parties outdoors but it's that weird in-between time of year where it's too cold to run the A/C but not really cold enough to turn on the heat, so HVAC units aren't filtering out anything, either. I don't know how much it would help to have the HVAC system running, but it seems like some filtration is better than none.
Chip Chipperson
Well-Known Member
And yet they completely ignore it or explain it away by saying things lie, "You don't know that those effects will never get better!" as if their dismissal isn't also a tacit admission that they don't know if those effects will ever get better.
I'm not a denier or a minimizer, but I am waiting for more studies/statistics to see if the long-lasting effects end up being more prevalent than with any other virus. All viruses have a small percentage of people who get chronic conditions.
Just not enough time has passed to get a true sense, also we need true number comparing how many were positive with no chronic conditions vs how many were positive with chronic conditions as result of Covid.
Right now you are heaving a lot about it because they are reporting on it. Not to say it doesn't happen, but is it worse with Covid? We just don't know yet.
GoofGoof
Premium Member
It’s higher over a specific 7 day period. It’s absolutely cherry picking data. So are you both then saying that the other 25+ 7 day periods where the numbers were better in PA that the FL Governor was wrong. You are playing gotcha with the statistics and that’s fine to do if you want to play games. The longer term outlook is obviously all that matters but sure for one 7 day period FL has better stats than PA. Not sure what that proves. The only thing that matters for FL is Florida statistics. We all know the virus moves in waves. We all know that places far apart are not impacted at the same time. We heard all these arguments about how great FL was doing in May...how did that play out over the summer. The only thing that matters for FL is whether having a statewide mask mandate would help FL or not. It’s blind ignorance to say it wouldn’t help at least to some extent.
@SamusAranX your point about private gatherings is valid, but irrelevant to this discussion. Nobody is saying having a mask mandate makes cases go to zero. Nobody. Private gatherings and people breaking rules will happen no matter what. Masks can‘t stop that. However, setting a tone form the top that Covid restrictions aren’t necessary and then blocking localities from having their own restrictions is damaging. You can defend your guy all day long on it but he’s wrong on this. Dead wrong.
danlb_2000
Premium Member
Which is exactly why we need to do what we can to control the spread of the virus. If we wait until we know the impact for sure it will be to late.
Chi84
Premium Member
Every little bit helps, but I'm convinced that people masking up in public places is doing little to limit the spread while people gathering indoors is greatly increasing the spread. At least that's what we've seen in Illinois, which has relied heavily on restrictions and mask-wearing since the beginning. Our surges have been unrelated to mask mandates. Of course, it's impossible to say that things wouldn't have been worse without the masks, and they do have the very real effect of forcing people to remember to take other precautions.
I didn't say anything to the contrary.
easyrowrdw
Well-Known Member
I read this the other day and thought it was interesting.
www.nytimes.com
Small Gatherings Spread the Virus, but Are They Causing the Surge? (Published 2020)
Yes, the coronavirus can be transmitted over cocktails and dinners. But these get-togethers may not account for the huge rise in cases.
danlb_2000
Premium Member
I didn't say you did, but others have.
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