On layoffs, very bad attendance, and Iger's legacy being one of disgrace

flynnibus

Premium Member
Disney isn't collapsing.

Disney needs to right size to adjust to the world around it. They've mastered it quite well so far... but people are panic'ing now that Disney has to actually start making wide sweeping changes to re-orient the business going forward.

It's what leaders do - those that are paralyzed and can't adapt are the ones that roll over and die.
 

techgeek

Well-Known Member
TWDC is not a one person band... none of us are in the room to know who is driving and who is observing. We only see the output.. and here.. it's making change.

It’s pretty obvious that Bob has turned management of the company over to a spreadsheet, and the spreadsheet is calling the shots at the moment.

If there were actual leadership, there would be some nuance and innovation involved in the decisions of the last few weeks.
 

TrainsOfDisney

Well-Known Member
It’s pretty obvious that Bob has turned management of the company over to a spreadsheet, and the spreadsheet is calling the shots at the moment.

If there were actual leadership, there would be some nuance and innovation involved in the decisions of the last few weeks.
This.

You don’t cut the top level talent (imagineers, chefs, entertainers, etc.) when you’re a good leader.
 

flynnibus

Premium Member
It’s pretty obvious that Bob has turned management of the company over to a spreadsheet, and the spreadsheet is calling the shots at the moment.

If there were actual leadership, there would be some nuance and innovation involved in the decisions of the last few weeks.

So tell us master CEO - what direction should they be taking? They should be keeping tens of thousands of workers on payroll doing nothing?
 

flynnibus

Premium Member
This.

You don’t cut the top level talent (imagineers, chefs, entertainers, etc.) when you’re a good leader.

They aren't an incubator - you hire talent to do your work. No work, no need for the talent.

You act like they shut down the company... without looking at what they are keeping. Because face it.. none of you really know how groups like WDI actually function.
 

techgeek

Well-Known Member
- what direction should they be taking? They should be keeping tens of thousands of workers on payroll doing nothing?

Well, on one side of that argument you’ve got people (and Wall Street) saying Disney has plenty of resources and enough business diversity to weather this for an extended period of time. So, if you subscribe to ‘the company is stable’ theory, then why not? Don’t make any sudden changes, keep people happy and on payroll, ride it out. Be ready to adjust rapidly to changing business opportunity.

If it’s actually really ‘that bad’ and you can’t keep the lights on in the castle next week without laying off half of Imagineering... then maybe you should be out there making that big deal to sell a major asset to raise the cash to keep the core company intact.

Probably the financial reality is somewhere in between crisis mode and comfort, so you knuckle down and get surgical but do so with understanding both of what your customers are looking to you for in a challenging time, and what your employees actually need to deliver on that. Nuance. Magic. Maybe even ask ‘what would Walt do?’ You don’t react to the situation by gutting the institutional knowledge of the company to the point where there’s no one left that understands that those bookcases full of ‘show quality’ binders actually are there for a reason. You don’t let people in the gate at Epcot in the condition that it’s being run today, with no entertainment in a park that has been defined solely by entertainment and lack of vision in the last 20 years. You don’t hide in your office and try to figure out what a CEO actually does when every other major CEO from an international company has been vigorously entering the dialogue of 2020

In 2 or 3 years when we’re over this, is the solution to getting the magic back up and running going to be ‘well, we’ll just have a career day over at the Rosen Hospitality College and I’m sure those new recruits can figure it out, and they’re a lot cheaper anyway!’

* edit - but I’m sorry, obviously I don’t understand any of this....
 
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flynnibus

Premium Member
Well, on one side of that argument you’ve got people (and Wall Street) saying Disney has plenty of resources and enough business diversity to weather this for an extended period of time. So, if you subscribe to ‘the company is stable’ theory, then why not? Don’t make any sudden changes, keep people happy and on payroll, ride it out. Be ready to adjust rapidly to changing business opportunity.

If it’s actually really ‘that bad’ and you can’t keep the lights on in the castle next week without laying off half of Imagineering... then maybe you should be out there making that big deal to sell a major asset to raise the cash to keep the core company intact.

Probably the financial reality is somewhere in between crisis mode and comfort, so you knuckle down and get surgical but do so with understanding both of what your customers are looking to you for in a challenging time, and what your employees actually need to deliver on that. Nuance. Magic. Maybe even ask ‘what would Walt do?’ You don’t react to the situation by gutting the institutional knowledge of the company to the point where there’s no one left that understands that those bookcases full of ‘show quality’ binders actually are there for a reason. You don’t let people in the gate at Epcot in the condition that it’s being run today, with no entertainment in a park that has been defined solely by entertainment and lack of vision in the last 20 years. You don’t hide in your office and try to figure out what a CEO actually does when every other major CEO from an international company has been vigorously entering the dialogue of 2020

In 2 or 3 years when we’re over this, is the solution to getting the magic back up and running going to be ‘well, we’ll just have a career day over at the Rosen Hospitality College and I’m sure those new recruits can figure it out, and they’re a lot cheaper anyway!’

* edit - but I’m sorry, obviously I don’t understand any of this....

people are not worried about the company AS A WHOLE because they have the resources and breathing room to make changes and still have stuff left - not that confidence means ‘do nothing and ride it out... no problem’

they know Disney has actual hard value that transcends the current outlook, is a market leader in spaces that have a future, and has the fiscal resources to weather the crunch.

none of that means “everything is fine... just keep doing what you did before...”

even by your statement if it takes 2-3 years to recover ... you think they should bloat their business for YEARS and operate what they know doesn’t fit the market?

when they thought they might just be facing a speed bump... and had to plan what the new world order would be.... furlough and paying benefits made sense from a corporate responsibility towards their employees.

but that time is past... they are looking at forecasts that are radically different than they were 9months ago.

last year’s plans no longer apply. The responsible thing to do is to right size your business to what the new plan is.

while people are bothered by large changes happening - you can’t ignore that there are large changes happening in the market.

people upset about wdi- they’ve been elastic for decades. Entertainment... same. Odv cashiers? Sorry, those roles are easily replaced.

other major areas may simply not have a purpose going forward.

you should be worried about people who are paralyzed in the face of adversity- not those willing to adapt.

imagine if Walt insisted on keeping his crew working on shorts as before... hoping that somehow the seas of change were just gonna reverse themselves if he just waited long enough.

knowing something is replaceable gives you a lot of power. They don’t need to float things indefinitely when it can be recreated. And gain fiscal advantages on both ends.
 

techgeek

Well-Known Member
people are not worried about the company AS A WHOLE because they have the resources and breathing room to make changes and still have stuff left - not that confidence means ‘do nothing and ride it out... no problem’

they know Disney has actual hard value that transcends the current outlook, is a market leader in spaces that have a future, and has the fiscal resources to weather the crunch.

none of that means “everything is fine... just keep doing what you did before...”

even by your statement if it takes 2-3 years to recover ... you think they should bloat their business for YEARS and operate what they know doesn’t fit the market?

when they thought they might just be facing a speed bump... and had to plan what the new world order would be.... furlough and paying benefits made sense from a corporate responsibility towards their employees.

but that time is past... they are looking at forecasts that are radically different than they were 9months ago.

last year’s plans no longer apply. The responsible thing to do is to right size your business to what the new plan is.

while people are bothered by large changes happening - you can’t ignore that there are large changes happening in the market.

people upset about wdi- they’ve been elastic for decades. Entertainment... same. Odv cashiers? Sorry, those roles are easily replaced.

other major areas may simply not have a purpose going forward.

you should be worried about people who are paralyzed in the face of adversity- not those willing to adapt.

imagine if Walt insisted on keeping his crew working on shorts as before... hoping that somehow the seas of change were just gonna reverse themselves if he just waited long enough.

knowing something is replaceable gives you a lot of power. They don’t need to float things indefinitely when it can be recreated. And gain fiscal advantages on both ends.

I can understand and acknowledge much of this, in fact I attempted to allude to it in my "somewhere in between" scenario. Yes, hard decisions have to be made about a business that will not look the same as it did yesterday. But, Walt didn't fire his artists working on shorts... he empowered them to explore other creative directions. He broke business 'rules' of the day by utilizing his resources in different ways, and enabled his talent to work towards tomorrow's vision. Instead of 'right sizing the business', use the resources you have to create your own market. People are begging for unique ways to mentally deal with 2020, if your stock and trade is selling branded comfort to people, and you have the most talented creative minds of a generation sitting on the shelf - why in the world would you not take this opportunity to get out there and find a way to do it? Instead, you let them go, throw up your hands, yell 'synergy!' 'Mandalorian!'" and then wonder where your customers are?

The part of the Walt Disney company history that many have their true emotional connection... the thing in the corporate DNA that defines "Disney", is those times when the company took risks and went the other direction from the "safe, corporate" expectations. It's those moments that brought us Fantasia, Sleeping Beauty, Disneyland, Epcot...

And none of that excuses the complete tone-deafness and lack of communication from the executive suite since Iger's stepping down. Perhaps more would be supportive of these decisions if Uncle Bob reached out and let both customers and cast know what the deal is instead of all of us trying to plan around park hours that may or may not exist and jobs that may or may not be there to support them.
 

MisterPenguin

President of Animal Kingdom
Premium Member
Here's the thing about the company: It has the resources to go two years with no profits. It's in no danger of bankruptcy or hostile takeovers.

But here's another thing about the company (and all other companies): They don't want to get by on breaking even. They want to make a profit. Their stockholders want them to make a profit. And outside of extraordinary times like a pandemic, a company is regarded as 'failing' by Wall Street if it doesn't hit projected maximal profits.

So, that's the two extremes. It's perfectly fine because it will definitely survive. And it's a big failing mess because it's not making over a billion dollars a quarter in profits.
 

UNCgolf

Well-Known Member
Disney as a whole will be fine (unless this somehow lasts for years and years, and then there will be much bigger problems).

However, this does not bode well for the parks and that's the main concern of most people here. They are likely to be lower quality, lesser experiences for quite some time and no one should be expecting any major new additions beyond what's currently under construction for years.
 

Basil of Baker Street

Well-Known Member
It’s pretty obvious that Bob has turned management of the company over to a spreadsheet, and the spreadsheet is calling the shots at the moment.

If there were actual leadership, there would be some nuance and innovation involved in the decisions of the last few weeks.
Kinda reminds me of a baseball manager nowadays. They just use analytics.
 

Heppenheimer

Well-Known Member
I can understand and acknowledge much of this, in fact I attempted to allude to it in my "somewhere in between" scenario. Yes, hard decisions have to be made about a business that will not look the same as it did yesterday. But, Walt didn't fire his artists working on shorts... he empowered them to explore other creative directions. He broke business 'rules' of the day by utilizing his resources in different ways, and enabled his talent to work towards tomorrow's vision. Instead of 'right sizing the business', use the resources you have to create your own market. People are begging for unique ways to mentally deal with 2020, if your stock and trade is selling branded comfort to people, and you have the most talented creative minds of a generation sitting on the shelf - why in the world would you not take this opportunity to get out there and find a way to do it? Instead, you let them go, throw up your hands, yell 'synergy!' 'Mandalorian!'" and then wonder where your customers are?

The part of the Walt Disney company history that many have their true emotional connection... the thing in the corporate DNA that defines "Disney", is those times when the company took risks and went the other direction from the "safe, corporate" expectations. It's those moments that brought us Fantasia, Sleeping Beauty, Disneyland, Epcot...

And none of that excuses the complete tone-deafness and lack of communication from the executive suite since Iger's stepping down. Perhaps more would be supportive of these decisions if Uncle Bob reached out and let both customers and cast know what the deal is instead of all of us trying to plan around park hours that may or may not exist and jobs that may or may not be there to support them.
Walt did fire artists. Often. There was a regular cycle of boom-bust for hiring and termination between feature film releases. The twin blow of the animators' strike and the film market collapse caused by WWII left the studio with a skeleton crew. Were if not for government contracts to produce training films and propaganda, the company would have not survived the war.

Yes, Walt always kept his top talent and moved them around the company as needed, but lets not pretend he didn't need to make hard-headed business decisions from time to time.

Floyd Norman gave an interview once where he described the mixed emotions of finishing a Disney feature. There was satisfaction with a job well done, but also angst that he would be amongst those told that their services were no longer needed. He was one of the lucky ones.
 
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Sir_Cliff

Well-Known Member
Disney as a whole will be fine (unless this somehow lasts for years and years, and then there will be much bigger problems).

However, this does not bode well for the parks and that's the main concern of most people here. They are likely to be lower quality, lesser experiences for quite some time and no one should be expecting any major new additions beyond what's currently under construction for years.
My feeling is that Disney needs to plan for the parks being a break-even proposition for the near future. Then they can start thinking about how the parks experience will look once we see what the world looks like post-pandemic.

There seems to be a narrative that customers are stupid for accepting a diminished experience during the pandemic. However, virtually everything is a diminished experience right now and I think most of us who can afford it are trying to support those things we want to see survive the pandemic with our business. Whether Disney Parks fall into the category of needing our support is an open question given Disney's size, but I also think it's unrealistic to expect them to keep running as if we weren't in a global emergency that uniquely affected businesses that require large numbers of people to gather.
 

TrainsOfDisney

Well-Known Member
I also think it's unrealistic to expect them to keep running as if we weren't in a global emergency that uniquely affected businesses that require large numbers of people to gather.
I agree, but I’m not seeing anyone suggest that.

There is a real cause for concern, and it appears that the OP of this thread very much knew what he was talking about as this plan didn’t get put together overnight.
 

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