On layoffs, very bad attendance, and Iger's legacy being one of disgrace

[UNCgolf]

The plans had it labeled as a C Ticket.

Well there you go! NRJ is a very good C ticket for Pandora that greatly enhances the land, in my (apparently minority) opinion. Yes, it's too short and lacks animatronics, but it's also lush and full of detail in a way other relatively recent Disney rides (Little Mermaid, FEA) are not. Not too bad for a C ticket.

It's not the ride's fault that the wait times are out of alignment with the experience.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Well there you go! NRJ is a very good C ticket for Pandora that greatly enhances the land, in my (apparently minority) opinion. Yes, it's too short and lacks animatronics, but it's also lush and full of detail in a way other relatively recent Disney rides (Little Mermaid, FEA) are not. Not too bad for a C ticket.

It's not the ride's fault that the wait times are out of alignment with the experience.

I like Navi...a lot.

But the problem is these 2 ride “minilands” Just don’t cut it. You can’t get “lost” in them for hours and that should be the goal. That’s how you get longterm appeal/nostalgia.

The “template” is broken.

 

[UNCgolf]

I like Navi...a lot.

But the problem is these 2 ride “minilands” Just don’t cut it. You can’t get “lost” in them for hours and that should be the goal. That’s how you get longterm appeal/nostalgia.

The “template” is broken.

I think Galaxy's Edge should put the nail in the coffin for those mini-lands, although it won't.

It's not that Galaxy's Edge is bad, because it's not. But it takes up a large amount of real estate with a lot of empty space. In theory that would make the land better because it wouldn't feel so cramped, but instead (at least for me) it made the area feel very sparse and like it was lacking something.

I'm just guessing here, and I could be completely wrong, but I bet they could have put in a table service restaurant, one or two more rides, and probably another shop or two using that same area if it had been designed differently.

 

[J4546]

I think they should add a fantasy springs area in magic kingdom, just like the one theyre putting in disneysea. Except without a hotel, so itll be even bigger. I really want to see that peter pan world/ride when its all done in tokyo!

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

I think Galaxy's Edge should put the nail in the coffin for those mini-lands, although it won't.

It's not that Galaxy's Edge is bad, because it's not. But it takes up a large amount of real estate with a lot of empty space. In theory that would make the land better because it wouldn't feel so cramped, but instead (at least for me) it made the area feel very sparse and like it was lacking something.

I'm just guessing here, and I could be completely wrong, but I bet they could have put in a table service restaurant, one or two more rides, and probably another shop or two using that same area if it had been designed differently.

As usual...I couldn’t agree more.

You nailed it. But don’t forget: they hedged - typical Iger move - and built “abramsland”. That was stupid on all levels...and in retrospect.

And they kept saying: “this is the biggest land ever!!”

To me...it’s as though you see the display windows at Macy’s in heralds square packed to the gills on black Friday...and you go inside to find a couple of clearance racks.

As only WDI can - spend a billion on facades and rock work with two limited capacity rides.

It’s just not enough. I was in Disneyland and it wasn’t enough...it can only be worse in MGM...where they spent five years building stuff that results in net zero new capacity...or close to it.

Not good enough...which is appropriate given Disney’s handling of Star Wars.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

I think they should add a fantasy springs area in magic kingdom, just like the one theyre putting in disneysea. Except without a hotel, so itll be even bigger. I really want to see that peter pan world/ride when its all done in tokyo!

Magic kingdom is low on the priority list, is limited for space...and STILL is getting the best new attraction

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

I don't get the nostalgia for the original EPCOT. I had been there a handful of times pre-1995 (pre-teen years) and then not again until 2009+ (well into adulthood), and I found the latter visits to be far superior.

Soarin'? Compared to the Cabaret and the other thing that either preceded or replaced it? C'mon. Original EPCOT + The Land = Solely the boat ride. Substantial gain.

Mission: Space? I have vivid memories of my childhood, but one of them is not Horizons. I would have remembered something about it if there was something worth remembering. Substantial gain.

Test Track? Ok, the original version was better than the computer version, but the computer version still stands on its own as a great ride. But like Horizons, I have no childhood memory of World of Motion...Couldn't have been worth remembering. Substantial gain.

The Universe of Energy (even pre-Ellen and BNTSG)...Fancy moving auditorium seating and some dinosaurs. That was nap time. No big loss.

The Wonders of Life...Ok, the loss of Body Wars was a substantial loss.

The Living Seas...Ok, a de-theming from Nemo and a return of the Hydrolators would be welcome. But otherwise, it still largely is what it is.

Journey Into Imagination...Ehh, Figment is still Figment, Honey I Shrunk The Audience was cool, seeing Captain EO again was cool, but I really don't mourn either of their losses. The jumping fountains are still the best part.

Spaceship Earth is still Spaceship Earth.

Everything not around the perimeter of Future World (with the exception of Spaceship Earth) was, and still is, a complete dead (to me) zone and is inconveniently large when crossing.

The World Showcase...Other than the conversion from Maelstrom, I can't think of anything else that isn't substantially the same as it always was.

Summing up the substantial gains/losses:

+3 (Soarin', Mission: Space, Test Track)
-1 (Body Wars)

I'm just not seeing the nostalgia.

Sounds like you’re looking for an amusement park...not a true theme park. Test track isn’t theme park...neither is soarin.

...it’s too bad boardwalk and baseball and Splendid China closed

 

[UNCgolf]

Magic kingdom is low on the priority list, is limited for space...and STILL is getting the best new attraction

I think the Guardians ride will probably be more impressive than Tron in a vacuum (i.e. ignoring the fact it doesn't belong in EPCOT at all).

 

[lazyboy97o]

I think Galaxy's Edge should put the nail in the coffin for those mini-lands, although it won't.

It's not that Galaxy's Edge is bad, because it's not. But it takes up a large amount of real estate with a lot of empty space. In theory that would make the land better because it wouldn't feel so cramped, but instead (at least for me) it made the area feel very sparse and like it was lacking something.

I'm just guessing here, and I could be completely wrong, but I bet they could have put in a table service restaurant, one or two more rides, and probably another shop or two using that same area if it had been designed differently.

This is part of that vicious cycle of escalating costs combined with changes in the approach to design. Everything has to be physically more massive because capacity is contained in fewer offerings while the understand of space and place have also been forgotten/abandoned. Toy Story Land is the most egregious recent example, a physically massive land with few offerings that is already being expanded for a relatively small restaurant because its layout is not well suited to additions.

What Galaxy’s Edge lacks is windows. When you’re trying to depict a war torn galaxy on location on a budget, windows are an additional expense you don’t need to spare when the focus is more on the characters. In an inhabited space their abscense becomes oppressive. As social creatures we like windows, we like seeing activity inside and out, we instinctively like sunlight and the play of light and shadow. In a themed environment windows create the illusion of an inhabited world beyond the area we physically occupy.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

I think the Guardians ride will probably be more impressive than Tron in a vacuum (i.e. ignoring the fact it doesn't belong in EPCOT at all).

It’s possible but I think lightcycle will have a long line/virtual gestapo style queue forever. The fact that isn’t more basic and is a disneyfied amusement type ride will build a strong following quickly. They don’t all have to be FOP...sometimes primal works. RNRC is the best example of that.

And guardians is ok...but silly longterm because it’s not a mainstrem
Marvel pull Franchise. Using whatever they had seems short sighted. Just my opinion

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

This is part of that vicious cycle of escalating costs combined with changes in the approach to design. Everything has to be physically more massive because capacity is contained in fewer offerings while the understand of space and place have also been forgotten/abandoned. Toy Story Land is the most egregious recent example, a physically massive land with few offerings that is already being expanded for a relatively small restaurant because its layout is not well suited to additions.

What Galaxy’s Edge lacks is windows. When you’re trying to depict a war torn galaxy on location on a budget, windows are an additional expense you don’t need to spare when the focus is more on the characters. In an inhabited space their abscense becomes oppressive. As social creatures we like windows, we like seeing activity inside and out, we instinctively like sunlight and the play of light and shadow. In a themed environment windows create the illusion of an inhabited world beyond the area we physically occupy.

Woah...that is DEEP!!

 

[Mahoc1970]

It is not surprising that an essential business that was open throughout the lockdowns made more money than a business that relies on entertainment, which had to close most of its business.

By your measure of wise stewardship of a business, then Publix is smarter than all movie companies, theatrical companies, gyms, salons, retail stores, and movie theater chains.

Because Disney's portfolio contained long-established TV channels, it's operating segments as a whole pretty much broke even. And it has access to a $40 Billion nest egg to get it through this type of business disruption or recession.

Stocks are up for DIS. Apparently people who have taken courses in business think Disney's fine financially and is poised for a big comeback.

Stocks? They mean nothing. Acquiring a company that puts you in a massive leveraged situation is not a good long term strategy. What did they get? A catalog of movies. Disney will survive but will never assume they are immune to the worlds problems.

 

[Phil12]

Yeah, back in the day, they had those lifetime soda refill mugs.

 

[UNCgolf]

It’s possible but I think lightcycle will have a long line/virtual gestapo style queue forever. The fact that isn’t more basic and is a disneyfied amusement type ride will build a strong following quickly. Then don’t all have to be FOP...sometimes primal works. RNRC is the best example of that.

And guardians is ok...but silly longterm because it’s not a mainstrem
Marvel pull Franchise. Using whatever they had seems short sighted. Just my opinion

I personally think the two Guardians movies are among the best of the MCU overall. Most of the other characters with multiple films have at least one that isn't good outside of Captain America and Ant-Man, but I think the GotG movies top both of them.

With that said, they certainly don't have the overall draw of some of those other characters, so you're right.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

I personally think the two Guardians movies are among the best of the MCU overall. Most of the other characters with multiple films have at least one that isn't good outside of Captain America and Ant-Man, but I think the GotG movies top both of them.

With that said, they certainly don't have the overall draw of some of those other characters, so you're right.

I like the guardians movies a lot. One more than 2...

But I think when the mcu dust settles...and it will and maybe much sooner than people think...guardians will be forgotten more. I think the default marvel characters will still rise to the top more quickly.

The Caps are the best...no question. I agree with you there and with ant man.

I think the thors are the biggest stinkers frankly...and the iron man’s were bad but Downey was good.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Cedar Point isn’t a carnie park, I’m getting tired of the subset of Disney Fans who feel that there is no viable option outside of Disney, heck, the way both parks are operating I would argue currently Universal is a better experience.

Couldn’t agree more.

I won’t say universal is a “better” overall time...but it’s way better than disneyphiles will tolerate being said. The main problem with URO is that the food and hotels are vastly inferior...there a big strength of wdw still over it (even if they are sliding back there as well)

But there are other places that provide very nice experiences not run by Disney.

First...the most “pure disney” spot is Anaheim now...the nickel and dining plan diming in Orlando puts a stink on it.

Beyond that...

Busch parks are well maintained and provide quality and variety.
It’s a shame sea world has gotten all the bad PR...they are great parks lead by Orlando.

Cedar fairs parks are well run and well appointed. They have been managed well. They are not six flags.

There are other regionals that are more than worthy of time...Hershey and Dollywood come to mind.


I feel like the shade thrown by Disney fans are because they never go anywhere else...or predetermine the parks are inferior before setting foot in them.

You know where else that’s a thing? Disney cruise line...lauded over and over again as “the best”....

When said by those that won’t go on others or make the carnival 1992 comparisons.

They also don’t notice that the service of celebrity ships and the sheer amenities of the RCL oasis and quantum class ships put Disney’s to shame...for less.

Pay no attention to the rodent behind the curtain.

 

[_caleb]

I don't get the nostalgia for the original EPCOT. I had been there a handful of times pre-1995 (pre-teen years) and then not again until 2009+ (well into adulthood), and I found the latter visits to be far superior.

Soarin'? Compared to the Cabaret and the other thing that either preceded or replaced it? C'mon. Original EPCOT + The Land = Solely the boat ride. Substantial gain.

Mission: Space? I have vivid memories of my childhood, but one of them is not Horizons. I would have remembered something about it if there was something worth remembering. Substantial gain.

Test Track? Ok, the original version was better than the computer version, but the computer version still stands on its own as a great ride. But like Horizons, I have no childhood memory of World of Motion...Couldn't have been worth remembering. Substantial gain.

The Universe of Energy (even pre-Ellen and BNTSG)...Fancy moving auditorium seating and some dinosaurs. That was nap time. No big loss.

The Wonders of Life...Ok, the loss of Body Wars was a substantial loss.

The Living Seas...Ok, a de-theming from Nemo and a return of the Hydrolators would be welcome. But otherwise, it still largely is what it is.

Journey Into Imagination...Ehh, Figment is still Figment, Honey I Shrunk The Audience was cool, seeing Captain EO again was cool, but I really don't mourn either of their losses. The jumping fountains are still the best part.

Spaceship Earth is still Spaceship Earth.

Everything not around the perimeter of Future World (with the exception of Spaceship Earth) was, and still is, a complete dead (to me) zone and is inconveniently large when crossing.

The World Showcase...Other than the conversion from Maelstrom, I can't think of anything else that isn't substantially the same as it always was.

Summing up the substantial gains/losses:

+3 (Soarin', Mission: Space, Test Track)
-1 (Body Wars)

I'm just not seeing the nostalgia.

I grew up a Disneylander and only visited WDW once in 1989 until the last few years. I vaguely remembered Horizons and had no recollection of World of Motion despite having been on the ride. Years later, after my second trip to Epcot as an adult, I actually posted a very similar opinion to yours on the thread about unpopular WDW opinions.

But since then, I’ve read up on Epcot, spoken with Imagineers who worked on Epcot project, and watched all of @marni1971’s Ultimate Tribute videos. As I’ve learned more about what Epcot was (and what it was intended to be), I’ve come to appreciate it more.

Epcot was never intended to be a theme park in the sense that Magic Kingdom or Disneyland was. The focus was on edutainment- engaging guests with interactive exhibits about science, culture, and technology. The sponsorships were intended to be partnerships that allowed guests to learn from leaders in different fields. Again, more like a World’s Fair.

The ”rides” weren’t really rides in the traditional sense. Disney was using ride mechanisms to help immerse guests in the learning experiences. So when Disney sticks Soarin’ (an entertainment ride) into The Land (and edutainment pavilion), it broke the concept a bit. Multiply these additions across the park, and neglect and poor maintenance, and I can see how fans would be really disappointed by what Epcot has become.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

I grew up a Disneylander and only visited WDW once in 1989 until the last few years. I vaguely remembered Horizons and had no recollection of World of Motion despite having been on the ride. Years later, after my second trip to Epcot as an adult, I actually posted a very similar opinion to yours on the thread about unpopular WDW opinions.

But since then, I’ve read up on Epcot, spoken with Imagineers who worked on Epcot project, and watched all of @marni1971’s Ultimate Tribute videos. As I’ve learned more about what Epcot was (and what it was intended to be), I’ve come to appreciate it more.

Epcot was never intended to be a theme park in the sense that Magic Kingdom or Disneyland was. The focus was on edutainment- engaging guests with interactive exhibits about science, culture, and technology. The sponsorships were intended to be partnerships that allowed guests to learn from leaders in different fields. Again, more like a World’s Fair.

The ”rides” weren’t really rides in the traditional sense. Disney was using ride mechanisms to help immerse guests in the learning experiences. So when Disney sticks Soarin’ (an entertainment ride) into The Land (and edutainment pavilion), it broke the concept a bit. Multiply these additions across the park, and neglect and poor maintenance, and I can see how fans would be really disappointed by what Epcot has become.

The Epcot concept was the greatest amusement concept ever conceived and built. Not only in scale...but in adherence to an ideology.

We shall never see its kind again.

I only put a few in its class

Tivoli gardens...Disneyland...Luna park...

 

[Getachew]

I grew up a Disneylander and only visited WDW once in 1989 until the last few years. I vaguely remembered Horizons and had no recollection of World of Motion despite having been on the ride. Years later, after my second trip to Epcot as an adult, I actually posted a very similar opinion to yours on the thread about unpopular WDW opinions.

But since then, I’ve read up on Epcot, spoken with Imagineers who worked on Epcot project, and watched all of @marni1971’s Ultimate Tribute videos. As I’ve learned more about what Epcot was (and what it was intended to be), I’ve come to appreciate it more.

Epcot was never intended to be a theme park in the sense that Magic Kingdom or Disneyland was. The focus was on edutainment- engaging guests with interactive exhibits about science, culture, and technology. The sponsorships were intended to be partnerships that allowed guests to learn from leaders in different fields. Again, more like a World’s Fair.

The ”rides” weren’t really rides in the traditional sense. Disney was using ride mechanisms to help immerse guests in the learning experiences. So when Disney sticks Soarin’ (an entertainment ride) into The Land (and edutainment pavilion), it broke the concept a bit. Multiply these additions across the park, and neglect and poor maintenance, and I can see how fans would be really disappointed by what Epcot has become.

No doubt Disney's focus now is to make EPCOT more like MK (for $$$ purposes), which I can understand many people being upset about.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

No doubt Disney's focus now is to make EPCOT more like MK (for $$$ purposes), which I can understand many people being upset about.

They could do that with a more uniform approach...instead of a piecemeal, thematic mess.