On layoffs, very bad attendance, and Iger's legacy being one of disgrace

brianstl

Well-Known Member
Iger fixed all of Eisners mess. I highly recommend you watch anything on what DCA was when it first opened, it was embarrassing. Eisner almost lost Pixar, while Iger purchased it along with Star Wars and marvel. The “Save Disney” campaign was launched by Roy Disney jr. to save the company from Eisners mess. Iger has been the best CEO of the company since Walt.

Eisner has also been responsible for:
Dinoland
HK Disneyland (Never has had one (Profitable year)
Walt Disney studios in Paris (complete dump)
Do I need to go on?
Eisner bought Capital Cities and made it’s ESPN into it a money making machine that allowed Iger to go on his buying spree. Without the money making machine that ESPN was for a decade and half, nothing that happened under Iger could have happened. Also, Iger never would have been at Disney without Eisner buying Capital Cities.
 
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PhotoDave219

Well-Known Member
Honestly...this is not a comparable example. It will be moreso if there’s a recession that sinks in and blasts travel after a solution to the health crisis emerges...like next year.

The 9/11 era Disney business is my wheelhouse...so I’m coming out of the bullpen throwing 99 on this one.

Oh I remember. (Its been a few years but i still remember a few things!) This will be far, FAR worse.

Its a more comparable example than using post-hurricane crowds is my overall point.
 

PhotoDave219

Well-Known Member
Just thinking about this now; how many within the fan community even went pre-2005?

It's now 2020. We have a whole generation of post-social media Disney fans who only first went within the last 10, maybe 15 years.

We used to talk about how many fans didn't know what Disney was like in the 90s. Now the early 2000s are ancient history to some.


Thats a damn good question.

And o be honest, those of us who went between 2002-2005 were spoiled by low crowds. It was damn enjoyable.
 

Sirwalterraleigh

Premium Member
Oh I remember. (Its been a few years but i still remember a few things!) This will be far, FAR worse.

Its a more comparable example than using post-hurricane crowds is my overall point.
I’ll give you that.

I’ve just watched for months as people have casually made that comparison to make themselves feel “better” about what’s coming for their beloved magic kingdoms. (Not you...based on your response)
Kinda like a “meh...we’ve seen this before”

It really doesn’t equate much. I could write a book...
...and sometimes I do 🤪
 

hopemax

Well-Known Member
My first trip was 1995. At the time we were kind of perplexed about what Epcot was supposed to be. It was like 80% there, but missing something. And sadly, I can't remember most of the Epcot portions of that trip. My Dad remembers the pre-show from Universe of Energy. We both remember the first part of the original Figment, but not so much the rest. Bits and pieces from World of Motion. I got on RADP in 1996, and the Internet revealed the things that had already changed like Kitchen Kabaret and Horizons (which thankfully, I did get to experience thanks to the Test Track debacle), the old Communicore exhibits. I'm not sure if those would have helped (although Horizons definitely would, it's my favorite), but I would go back to all of it in a heartbeat.

Each change after, is like taking a piece of your heart, ripping it out and stomping on it. I can't think of anything I would trade of today over what was there before. Maybe some expanded bathrooms in World Showcase; maybe the 3 Caballeros AAs. I am scared and sad to imagine what is going to come next. I don't see current Disney doing anything other than rip out anything remaining from the old days because it's too expensive to maintain and operate, and the only things that will be added are the things that can be exploited ten ways from Sunday and require as little post-construction attention as possible. So like the last 15 years, but even worse. No charm, no surprise discoveries, no calmness (because your senses will be under constant assault needed for "engagement."). My "peak" Disney internet was the post-9/11 thru the start of the financial crisis period. I know where some of the internet analysis from that time period is buried, if we need to dig it out for the young uns.
 

Sirwalterraleigh

Premium Member
Just thinking about this now; how many within the fan community even went pre-2005?

It's now 2020. We have a whole generation of post-social media Disney fans who only first went within the last 10, maybe 15 years.

We used to talk about how many fans didn't know what Disney was like in the 90s. Now the early 2000s are ancient history to some.
...a very good point as well
 

Sirwalterraleigh

Premium Member
My first trip was 1995. At the time we were kind of perplexed about what Epcot was supposed to be. It was like 80% there, but missing something. And sadly, I can't remember most of the Epcot portions of that trip. My Dad remembers the pre-show from Universe of Energy. We both remember the first part of the original Figment, but not so much the rest. Bits and pieces from World of Motion. I got on RADP in 1996, and the Internet revealed the things that had already changed like Kitchen Kabaret and Horizons (which thankfully, I did get to experience thanks to the Test Track debacle), the old Communicore exhibits. I'm not sure if those would have helped (although Horizons definitely would, it's my favorite), but I would go back to all of it in a heartbeat.

Each change after, is like taking a piece of your heart, ripping it out and stomping on it. I can't think of anything I would trade of today over what was there before. Maybe some expanded bathrooms in World Showcase; maybe the 3 Caballeros AAs. I am scared and sad to imagine what is going to come next. I don't see current Disney doing anything other than rip out anything remaining from the old days because it's too expensive to maintain and operate, and the only things that will be added are the things that can be exploited ten ways from Sunday and require as little post-construction attention as possible. So like the last 15 years, but even worse. No charm, no surprise discoveries, no calmness (because your senses will be under constant assault needed for "engagement."). My "peak" Disney internet was the post-9/11 thru the start of the financial crisis period. I know where some of the internet analysis from that time period is buried, if we need to dig it out for the young uns.
That’s was right when Epcot was starting to fall behind a little. The original construction cost and realities of what they built put a strain on reinvesting in the park. They should have continued with pavilion additions and notably attractions...but the Eisner/wells regime decided to not go that route. Then the redo in the late 90’s was misguided and it’s been all but abandoned since.

Epcot was never “finished”...DAK is similar in that respect. Can’t build 3/4 or an inclusive concept and ever have it feel totally right.
 

PhotoDave219

Well-Known Member
Yeah - but the economy is interconnected. Where people would expect jobs to be shed.. aren't the only areas.. because while someone says "oh the waiter at the restaurant is sure to lose his work..." - this trickles way way back up the chain as all the companies that sell products to that restaurant are impacted, etc. Suddenly you have a Sales VP at a telecomms company sweating because it is not that his company is shutdown, it's the whole web of industry that is slowed that works its way back to them.

The drop in demand across the board is the real killer. Disney Parks and places like vegas are hyper exposed because they are so narrowly defined. When the travel engine shuts down... it's like someone sucking all the air out of the room.

Until the airline industry gets back to a healthy upward trend... I see Disney staying in deep doodoo.

As usual, you hit the nail right on the head. This is going to be bad. Very bad.

For years we've been said Orlando is a microcosm of the US economy. What we see happening there will reverberate and echo through the entire economy.

Get the virus under control and we have a chance. Until then? All bets are off.
 

DVCakaCarlF

Well-Known Member
That’s was right when Epcot was starting to fall behind a little. The original construction cost and realities of what they built put a strain on reinvesting in the park. They should have continued with pavilion additions and notably attractions...but the Eisner/wells regime decided to not go that route. Then the redo in the late 90’s was misguided and it’s been all but abandoned since.

Epcot was never “finished”...DAK is similar in that respect. Can’t build 3/4 or an inclusive concept and ever have it feel totally right.
Eisner did a good job developing crescent lake
 

PhotoDave219

Well-Known Member
I’ll give you that.

I’ve just watched for months as people have casually made that comparison to make themselves feel “better” about what’s coming for their beloved magic kingdoms. (Not you...based on your response)
Kinda like a “meh...we’ve seen this before”

It really doesn’t equate much. I could write a book...
...and sometimes I do 🤪

Ah. Given my hiatus, i shall elaborate farther.

The best case scenario right now is Disney's post 9/11 reaction. Which involved mass layoffs, cancelled projects, and attendance falling off a cliff.

You're right that it doesnt equate much, but its the closest I can come up with. Things are going to be bad.
 

Sirwalterraleigh

Premium Member
Ah. Given my hiatus, i shall elaborate farther.

The best case scenario right now is Disney's post 9/11 reaction. Which involved mass layoffs, cancelled projects, and attendance falling off a cliff.

You're right that it doesnt equate much, but its the closest I can come up with. Things are going to be bad.
The 9/11 era was actually the convergence of a couple of things - at least in Orlando..so there are a couple comparisons. The incident was actually a micro form of a “double dip” recession.

I had been told...and had no reason to doubt...that the late 70’s/early 80’s economic slump was more impactful...but it was a different era as well in money.

2008 should have been worse...but Iger - to his credit - managed to outgame it and make promises that he was able to keep - but shouldn’t have.
 

Sirwalterraleigh

Premium Member
Eisner did a good job developing crescent lake
Early 90’s...

That was the peak of construction in wdw. Eisner/wells from 86 to roughly 97 really made the place what it is now. Just as important as the phase 1 of the old guard.

Iger inherited 90% of that...but is often given credit by the less attuned as having built it.

He’s built timeshares...and a couple of new stops on the pathways in the parks...if we’re accurate.
 

Sirwalterraleigh

Premium Member
Yeah - but the economy is interconnected. Where people would expect jobs to be shed.. aren't the only areas.. because while someone says "oh the waiter at the restaurant is sure to lose his work..." - this trickles way way back up the chain as all the companies that sell products to that restaurant are impacted, etc. Suddenly you have a Sales VP at a telecomms company sweating because it is not that his company is shutdown, it's the whole web of industry that is slowed that works its way back to them.

The drop in demand across the board is the real killer. Disney Parks and places like vegas are hyper exposed because they are so narrowly defined. When the travel engine shuts down... it's like someone sucking all the air out of the room.

Until the airline industry gets back to a healthy upward trend... I see Disney staying in deep doodoo.
One of your best posts...cuts it to the bone.
I think that's a big issue, actually (well, not so much for Disney -- it's a great thing for the company).

So many people don't realize how incredibly good WDW was in the early 90s. They have no memory of EPCOT being absolutely incredible, nor do they realize how much has been lost at the Magic Kingdom -- not as much in terms of rides (there are a few gone), but in terms of all the other interesting experiences like all of the themed stores that have been replaced with shops all selling the same merchandise everywhere.

They don't have that as a comparison point, so they don't know how far downhill things have gone.
Same comment as above 👍🏻
 

Sirwalterraleigh

Premium Member
Let’s not forget Eisner green lit this:


For god’s sakes. I get it...you’re a disgruntled DCA activist. You guys are usually cooler than this.

And if you profile is right...you were about 7 when that park opened (hence not well versed in the “olden” days)...so how does it burn you personally this bad?
If we’re going to cherrypick, then let’s also not forget that’s Iger green lit “baby on a stick”.
But then he likely increased prices on snacks 30% within a week...so the big picture was still good.
 

Brer Oswald

Well-Known Member
For god’s sakes. I get it...you’re a disgruntled DCA activist. You guys are usually cooler than this.

And if you profile is right...you were about 7 when that park opened (hence not well versed in the “olden” days)...so how does it burn you personally this bad?

But then he likely increased prices on snacks 30% within a week...so the big picture was still good.
1596259535890.jpeg
 

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