EPCOT New Park Entrance coming to Epcot

[DreamfinderGuy]

No I think I can safely say I don't want the Guardians at MK either. I'd take it over EPCOT, sure, but that belonged in Studios.

 

[DVCakaCarlF]

That fact there was ever an MGM/HS was an Eisner mistake.

 

[DVCakaCarlF]

Also, any word on when the monorail will run between the TTC and Epcot? Initially, a CM said it would be on the 15th, but now I’m hearing it is TBD.

 

[SaveDinosaur]

I totally understand people not wanting IPs in Epcot.

I totally do not understand your claim that these IPs were just "slapped on" like at a Six Flags. There's no 2D cut-out of the characters at the entrance and the rest of the ride painted matching colors. That's what Six Flags does.

Frozen got really good AAs and a heavily themed (accurate to Norway, too) queue. GotG is getting a lengthy indoor coaster with pretty innovative design and a huge, highly themed queue. If they were in MK, people would be hailing them as excellent additions to WDW.

Slapped on? That's pretty much nonsense talk.

They don´t have Six Flags quality, but they sure have the same themeless placement and the parks are becoming as themeless as Six Flags itself... For example, does it make sense to have the Collector´s fortress at a park about California in a land that is supposed to be a campus on Earth? Can we define the themes of EPCOT, Hollywood Studios and DCA or have they become generic like a park that was supposed to be about the six flags that ruled over Texas?

 

[FigmentJedi]

They don´t have Six Flags quality, but they sure have the same themeless placement and the parks are becoming as themeless as Six Flags itself... For example, does it make sense to have the Collector´s fortress at a park about California in a land that is supposed to be a campus on Earth? Can we define the themes of EPCOT, Hollywood Studios and DCA or have they become generic like a park that was supposed to be about the six flags that ruled over Texas?

The Collector's Fortress is actually a spaceship that moves and it's at DCA because the Collector wants to lure in Disneyland tourists. I imagine that flimsy justification is slightly modified for the Avengers Campus and that he's considering collecting other heroes like he did with the Guardians.

 

[Movielover]

That fact there was ever an MGM/HS was an Eisner mistake.

 

[Rich Brownn]

I totally understand people not wanting IPs in Epcot.

I totally do not understand your claim that these IPs were just "slapped on" like at a Six Flags. There's no 2D cut-out of the characters at the entrance and the rest of the ride painted matching colors. That's what Six Flags does.

Frozen got really good AAs and a heavily themed (accurate to Norway, too) queue. GotG is getting a lengthy indoor coaster with pretty innovative design and a huge, highly themed queue. If they were in MK, people would be hailing them as excellent additions to WDW.

Slapped on? That's pretty much nonsense talk.

And there's the issue. They belonged in the Magic Kingdom. EPCOT is now becoming MK 2.0

 

[yensidtlaw1969]

I didn’t name Frozen because it isn’t attempting to shoehorn characters onto an Epcot-style attraction. It’s the same reason I don’t mind Ratatouille; both are shameless fantasy rides, but both are well done and don’t pretend to be anything else.

Edit: And I’m obviously talking about a mentality, not actual execution.

For sure it's fair to say that, conceptually speaking, the new infusion of IP into EPCOT ran along similar lines to a Six Flags. What EPCOT is foundationally about . . . not just historically, but presentationally - the style with which these attractions were to be realized . . . is fundamentally at odds with that of the IP's themselves. The same way that sticking a Superman cutout on a roller coaster and painting the track Red and Blue doesn't really make the roller coaster have anything more to do with Superman, because Superman has nothing to do with Roller Coasters.

Nothing in the Moana movie suggests the tonality of EPCOT in any element, yet Journey of Water was meant to be an EPCOT-like exhibit, even though its host and her movie share practically no DNA with that style of attraction. Much the same way that Finding Nemo the Movie never once touches on the scientific foundings of The Seas with Nemo and Friends. Though at least Finding Dory did some work to retcon that.

Just put Moana in Adventureland where she belongs and would vibe with the tone of the land and the park. Instead we get a walkthrough that will compromise both on her property and on EPCOT in a half-hearted effort to justify the ill-fitting presence of one in the other.

 

[jmuboy]

For sure it's fair to say that, conceptually speaking, the new infusion of IP into EPCOT ran along similar lines to a Six Flags. What EPCOT is foundationally about . . . not just historically, but presentationally - the style with which these attractions were to be realized . . . is fundamentally at odds with that of the IP's themselves. The same way that sticking a Superman cutout on a roller coaster and painting the track Red and Blue doesn't really make the roller coaster have anything more to do with Superman, because Superman has nothing to do with Roller Coasters.

Nothing in the Moana movie suggests the tonality of EPCOT in any element, yet Journey of Water was meant to be an EPCOT-like exhibit, even though its host and her movie share practically no DNA with that style of attraction. Much the same way that Finding Nemo the Movie never once touches on the scientific foundings of The Seas with Nemo and Friends. Though at least Finding Dory did some work to retcon that.

Just put Moana in Adventureland where she belongs and would vibe with the tone of the land and the park. Instead we get a walkthrough that will compromise both on her property and on EPCOT in a half-hearted effort to justify the ill-fitting presence of one in the other.

Very well said! I would up about GOTG is the Covid 19 cost cutting would just finally kill this Moana attraction. Its a MINIMAL value add (possible net negative), zero attendance driver, zero revenue driver (for such an after thought of an "attraction") ....so why build it when money is tight. Bob I and Bob C and Bob W ........I hope all 3 of you are you reading this?!?

 

[mikejs78]

For sure it's fair to say that, conceptually speaking, the new infusion of IP into EPCOT ran along similar lines to a Six Flags. What EPCOT is foundationally about . . . not just historically, but presentationally - the style with which these attractions were to be realized . . . is fundamentally at odds with that of the IP's themselves. The same way that sticking a Superman cutout on a roller coaster and painting the track Red and Blue doesn't really make the roller coaster have anything more to do with Superman, because Superman has nothing to do with Roller Coasters.

Nothing in the Moana movie suggests the tonality of EPCOT in any element, yet Journey of Water was meant to be an EPCOT-like exhibit, even though its host and her movie share practically no DNA with that style of attraction. Much the same way that Finding Nemo the Movie never once touches on the scientific foundings of The Seas with Nemo and Friends. Though at least Finding Dory did some work to retcon that.

Just put Moana in Adventureland where she belongs and would vibe with the tone of the land and the park. Instead we get a walkthrough that will compromise both on her property and on EPCOT in a half-hearted effort to justify the ill-fitting presence of one in the other.

Very well said! I would **** up about GOTG is the Covid 19 cost cutting would just finally kill this Moana attraction. Its a MINIMAL value add (possible net negative), zero attendance driver, zero revenue driver (for such an after thought of an "attraction") ....so why build it when money is tight. Bob I and Bob C and Bob W ........I hope all 3 of you are you reading this?!?

I think the idea of IP having to specifically deal with the subject matter doesn't make a whole lot of sense. If you go back to a lot of the PSA-type cartoons at Disney produced in the 40s and 50s, they all use characters like Mickey Mouse, Donald Duck, etc. I don't have an issue per se with a character or IP being used in such a way that promotes something that is Epcot appropriate as long as it's done well.

IP in the park is not new. Ever since 1994, it's been used in various atteactions. For example, Circle of Life. Lion King did not really have an environmental message. By your logic, you could argue that Lion King didn't belong and was a Six Flags style IP infusion. however, I would argue that it is completely appropriate for Epcot. Using Disney IP to communicate a message that fits with the ideals of the park is certainly a valid and reasonable way of doing things. Now, I have other issues with Circle of Life, from a quality perspective, but that's not the same argument.

Where I do have an issue with IP and Epcot is where the IP is used in such a way that has nothing to do with Epcot. Two examples of this are Frozen Ever After, and the Finding Nemo ride. While Nemo's place in the pavilion itself is done pretty well, especially in the aquarium section and in Turtle Talk with Crush, the ride itself is merely a cutesy book report ride that has very little to do with Epcot or the seas. Frozen, I think, speaks for itself. Conversely, attractions like Grand Fiesta Tour and Ratatouille makes sense to me and fit with the theme of Epcot. If they redid the Nemo ride to make it more about ocean life and our relationship with the seas, I'd be much happier with it. Same with Guardians - if they use the Guardians characters to present a theme that is appropriate to Epcot, such as the origins of the universe or some other such thing, that to me will be a good creative success in the spirit of Epcot. If, however it's simply a high speed roller coaster with 70's music and lots of quips from the cast, I won't be happy with that. That to me is Six Flags infusion of IP.

We can debate whether IP belongs in Epcot at all, but that ship sailed the minute Michael Eisner demanded that the characters be found in Epcot when he first became CEO. So now, I think the best approach to satisfy the IP goals of Disney leadership but still remain true to the park is to make sure that the theme of each ride is in the theme of Epcot or the pavilion that it represents, and not get bogged down in pedantic details like whether or not the IP itself matches the theme. Of course, it has to make some level of sense. To have Moana talk about water makes sense, because in the movie water was very much a prominent device used.. If they put Moana in mission space, that would be completely out of place because you can't really draw a reasonable connection. But if they were to redo the Nemo ride to make it more in line with exploration of the seas, I think a lot of people here would be very happy.

 

[marni1971]

Again, it’s all about balance. The current regime think everything needs IP.

 

[Master Yoda]

Again, it’s all about balance. The current regime think everything needs IP.

It was bound to happen. Eventually, nearly every band turns into a cover band.

 

[October82]

The Collector's Fortress is actually a spaceship that moves and it's at DCA because the Collector wants to lure in Disneyland tourists. I imagine that flimsy justification is slightly modified for the Avengers Campus and that he's considering collecting other heroes like he did with the Guardians.

So, is Avengers Campus also in California Adventure? Does the Disney company exist in the MCU? Does the MCU exist in the MCU?

 

[J4546]

i kinda like marvel in ca because its right beside hollywood land, and whats more hollywood that marvel movies right? maybe not, but im still looking forward to the new land

 

[October82]

i kinda like marvel in ca because its right beside hollywood land, and whats more hollywood that marvel movies right? maybe not, but im still looking forward to the new land

And Pixar Pier belongs in DCA because Pixar is a company located in California.

 

[FigmentJedi]

So, is Avengers Campus also in California Adventure? Does the Disney company exist in the MCU? Does the MCU exist in the MCU?

Yes to the first two, not so much the third because the idea is that we're trying to pretend that the Happy Ending MCU is all real. Stark Expo Hong Kong is actually being held at Hong Kong Disneyland and Cosmic Rewind exists because Star Lord told the Xandarians that a World Showcase-style pavilion at Epcot would be a great way to introduce themselves to humanity.

 

[halltd]

Again, it’s all about balance. The current regime think everything needs IP.

I think that's because that's what guests say. Wasn't the biggest complain about DAK after it opened that there wasn't enough "Disney"...meaning characters? I think this is also the complaints they've been getting from guests about Epcot. They do all these surveys (which personally I don't like), and that's what people say. Can't really fault them for giving the people what they ask for. It's not their fault the guests only associate Disney with cartoon characters.

 

[marni1971]

They do all these surveys (which personally I don't like), and that's what people say..

Do they now?

 

[OvertheHorizon]

I met up with friends a few years ago at Epcot. They had been to Epcot previously, but their kids never had much interest in it so they hadn't spent much time there. I introduced them for the first time to the movie in China, The American Adventure, and Impressions de France. They loved it all. I expect their kid's reactions to Epcot were typical and the reason for Disney wanting to inject more IP.

 

[UNCgolf]

Frozen got really good AAs and a heavily themed (accurate to Norway, too) queue. GotG is getting a lengthy indoor coaster with pretty innovative design and a huge, highly themed queue. If they were in MK, people would be hailing them as excellent additions to WDW.

If Frozen was in the Magic Kingdom, I think more people would consider it a mediocre to bad ride.

It's not on the level of Little Mermaid just because of the AAs, but if they'd built FEA from scratch and it was exactly the same, I can't imagine it getting the pass it seems to get now because people know it was shoehorned into an existing space.