Splash Mountain re-theme announced

[bennyw01]

You guys need to scratch the surface a little on the source material for Splash Mountain.

Even on release the National Negro Congress picketed cinemas as they found it insulting, 1947 isn't that long ago but 28 years of Splash Mountain is a good run.. you think we really need hold onto something that was described as 'as vicious a piece of propaganda for white supremacy as Hollywood ever produced '??

Clearly there's something here, I am glad they are changing it and I hope it makes you feel uncomfortable cause that's how many people have felt for decades.

 

[celluloid]

Literally NO child is getting off Splash Mountain after riding it for the first time and saying - "Mom & Dad, can you teach me about slavery?"

You mean you never stopped enjoying the thrills and theme because it was clear it was some sort of monument to systemic racism?

 

[orlandogal22]

You guys need to scratch the surface a little on the source material for Splash Mountain.

Even on release the National Negro Congress picketed cinemas as they found it insulting, 1947 isn't that long ago but 28 years of Splash Mountain is a good run.. you think we really need hold onto something that was described as 'as vicious a piece of propaganda for white supremacy as Hollywood ever produced '??

Clearly there's something here, I am glad they are changing it and I hope it makes you feel uncomfortable cause that's how many people have felt for decades.

Oh, that surface has been "scratched" on here over the last 200+ pages.

 

[celluloid]

You guys need to scratch the surface a little on the source material for Splash Mountain.

Even on release the National Negro Congress picketed cinemas as they found it insulting, 1947 isn't that long ago but 28 years of Splash Mountain is a good run.. you think we really need hold onto something that was described as 'as vicious a piece of propaganda for white supremacy as Hollywood ever produced '??

Clearly there's something here, I am glad they are changing it and I hope it makes you feel uncomfortable cause that's how many people have felt for decades.

Even if this was true. If the discomfort of losing a beloved theme park and pop culture piece of artwork is the same level of discomfort someone may feel about it existing, then it is all the more reason it should stay.

 

[thomas998]

OK, try to picture this, you're a black parent, your kid comes off Splash Mountain and wants to know more about the characters. They discover Song of the South and ask you why can't they watch this or find it anywhere on Disney+? You'd then have to explain to your child why Disney has a ride that trivialises their ancestors strife through stereotypes and poor taste. Its 2020, we should educating all children better and use this as a turning point to amend this for those who aren't completely happy with Splash... like I said Disney is about inclusion and we should empathise with that.

I don't disagree that on the surface Splash Mountain is innocent, I waited a number of days before I posted because I needed to put myself in the shoes of someone it did affect. Firstly I was the same.. why should we change Splash Mountain and the reason is that we care enough to accept change for the better.

Why would the parents even mention Song of the South? They could simply tell their child that the characters are based on black folktales which is true and avoids mentioning Song of the South completely. Given the cartoons had also been shown at various time in the past without the live action portions of the movie as stand alone cartoons one could argue that the ride was never intended to even be connected to Song of the South. As I understand it originally Disney originally intended to make several movies with rabbit, fox and bear.

 

[aw14]

You guys need to scratch the surface a little on the source material for Splash Mountain.

Even on release the National Negro Congress picketed cinemas as they found it insulting, 1947 isn't that long ago but 28 years of Splash Mountain is a good run.. you think we really need hold onto something that was described as 'as vicious a piece of propaganda for white supremacy as Hollywood ever produced '??

Clearly there's something here, I am glad they are changing it and I hope it makes you feel uncomfortable cause that's how many people have felt for decades.

you know people have been uncomfortable for decades on Splash Mountain? How do you draw that conclusion?

 

[bennyw01]

you know people have been uncomfortable for decades on Splash Mountain? How do you draw that conclusion?

Because its been open 28 years, people picketed the film 47 years prior, so there are likely people who picketed the original film who then got to see the attraction, you not care for those people? its simple logic.

 

[orlandogal22]

Because its been open 28 years, people picketed the film 47 years prior, so there are likely people who picketed the original film who then got to see the attraction, you not care for those people? its simple logic.

That is some statement there.

 

[aw14]

Because its been open 28 years, people picketed the film 47 years prior, so there are likely people who picketed the original film who then got to see the attraction, you not care for those people? its simple logic.

ok, so a film (not the ride) was picketed 47 years prior, & your concern is maybe those that picketed might see the attraction? Is this serious?

I have been to Disney more times than I care to count, & never seen anyone picket a ride. The beauty of this country is its supposed reliance on personal responsibility. If you dont like the ride for whatever reason, feel free not to ride it.

I personally cannot stand primeval whirl. Guess what- dont ride it. Please dont suggest I am anti-dinosaur

 

[celluloid]

So, Brer Fox is an offensive black stereotype because he's a "schemer trying to get an easy meal who's not nearly as clever as he thinks"... does that mean Wile E. Coyote is an offensive black stereotype too? I at least understand why Brer Fox's VOICE makes some think of him as an offensive stereotype (even though it's no worse than Eddie Murphy's), but this just seems ridiculous.

And Brer Bear is an offensive black stereotype because he's a "big, dumb brute"? How does that automatically make somebody a black stereotype? I legitimately do not get this...

To me it pointed to Matt's predjudice more than anything else since he seems to be projecting that with no evidence. The Fox not getting a job thing is so far out there isn't it?

 

[21stamps]

and I hope it makes you feel uncomfortable cause that's how many people have felt for decades.

And there it is. The ultimate virtue signal.

This line is always amusing to me. Even more so now that it’s used in relation to Disney, land of stereotypes.

 

[thomas998]

You guys need to scratch the surface a little on the source material for Splash Mountain.

Even on release the National Negro Congress picketed cinemas as they found it insulting, 1947 isn't that long ago but 28 years of Splash Mountain is a good run.. you think we really need hold onto something that was described as 'as vicious a piece of propaganda for white supremacy as Hollywood ever produced '??

Clearly there's something here, I am glad they are changing it and I hope it makes you feel uncomfortable cause that's how many people have felt for decades.

You might want to scratch the surface a bit on the groups that were so apposed to the Song of the South to begin with. While the National Negro Congress sounds innocent enough the reality is it was an organization with strong connections to the communist movement. So frankly I don't really give a flip what an organization that at its very core was trying to destroy capitalism in America thought. I suspect that if you could find any of the protesters from that era that you would find that they had never seen the film and were just doing what they were being paid to do - protest. Now where have we seen paid protester recently? Is this really how you want corporations to make decisions? If that's the case then if I'm Universal I'm going to go hire a few hundred protesters to picket Disney for the Star Wars ride, or maybe the Pandora ride, whatever I can do to destroy Disney so that Universal can own Orlando.

I have the feeling that you've committed the ultimate act of making a decision without scratching the surface. You came up with National Congress tidbit from Wikipedia didn't you? If you wanted to use that bastion of facts, why did you leave out the other little bits that go against the detractors? Why did you ignore the fact that there is also evidence that one of the big drivers against the movie was a disgruntled employee Clarence Muse who wanted the role of Uncle Remus but when he failed to get it took to writing negative letters to editors of black publications to complain about the movie. You see even if you only use your wikipedia for your facts it isn't a clear cut we must edit the movie from existence... but I'm guessing you already knew what you believed, probably never saw the actual film but decided to go cherry pick a line from the only source you were willing to bother with (mostly because it was so easy to find)... So do everyone a favor and go watch the film before you give an opinion of it.

 

[seabreezept813]

So, Brer Fox is an offensive black stereotype because he's a "schemer trying to get an easy meal who's not nearly as clever as he thinks"... does that mean Wile E. Coyote is an offensive black stereotype too? I at least understand why Brer Fox's VOICE makes some think of him as an offensive stereotype (even though it's no worse than Eddie Murphy's), but this just seems ridiculous.

And Brer Bear is an offensive black stereotype because he's a "big, dumb brute"? How does that automatically make somebody a black stereotype? I legitimately do not get this...

I always thought Brer Rabbit was supposed to be.. smart! He outsmarts the fox and bear using words instead of his fists. I see that as a positive trait. If there is an accent problem, Disney could always update the voices.
I think people also forget that cartoons by nature are exaggerations. I can’t point to a single cartoon character and say that’s exactly who I am in cartoon form. And the way things are it’s hard to see who really does find offense and who is feeling offended for the sake of causing controversy.. I’ve said before that Jose Carioca is a stereotype and my Brazilian husband loves him. Because he’s a cartoon bird, he’s not offended that he’s not a perfect portrayal of Brazillians. If the stereotypes happened in a nonfiction documentary it would likely be much different.

 

[thomas998]

Because its been open 28 years, people picketed the film 47 years prior, so there are likely people who picketed the original film who then got to see the attraction, you not care for those people? its simple logic.

You do realize the original picketers of the film were not picketing the cartoon, they were supposedly upset with the live action depiction of slavery in the south, of course that also kind of shows how ignorant those picketers were since the movie wasn't even set in the time of slavery but was set after slavery had ended which if they had bothered to watch the film and listened to the dialogue it would have been quite clear. So frankly I see no point in given the original picketers credit for anything, they have as much standing as the Christian fundamentalist that picketed The Last Temptation of Christ when they had never even seen the movie. If you want to condemn a movie then make sure you are doing it because the movie deserves it, and the only way you will ever do that is to see the movie first, not a random clip, and certainly not simply because you heard the movie was bad, or heard the movie made fun of X, Y or Z.

 

[thomas998]

I always thought Brer Rabbit was supposed to be.. smart! He outsmarts the fox and bear using words instead of his fists. I see that as a positive trait. If there is an accent problem, Disney could always update the voices.
I think people also forget that cartoons by nature are exaggerations. I can’t point to a single cartoon character and say that’s exactly who I am in cartoon form. And the way things are it’s hard to see who really does find offense and who is feeling offended for the sake of causing controversy.. I’ve said before that Jose Carioca is a stereotype and my Brazilian husband loves him. Because he’s a cartoon bird, he’s not offended that he’s not a perfect portrayal of Brazillians. If the stereotypes happened in a nonfiction documentary it would likely be much different.

The majority view of Brer Rabbit is that he was supposed to represent the blacks who when the stories originated were slaves, the Fox and Bear were supposed to be the whites. The Rabbit was always outsmarting the dumb fox and bear. I'm sure if you want to you can come up with any twist or turn you want on the whole thing, just like you could put a different spin on Goldilocks and the Three Bears or any other little kid story and make turn it 180 degrees from where it was originally.

 

[seabreezept813]

Why would the parents even mention Song of the South? They could simply tell their child that the characters are based on black folktales which is true and avoids mentioning Song of the South completely. Given the cartoons had also been shown at various time in the past without the live action portions of the movie as stand alone cartoons one could argue that the ride was never intended to even be connected to Song of the South. As I understand it originally Disney originally intended to make several movies with rabbit, fox and bear.

Also the majority of parents would probably just say they are Splash characters. Parents right now grew up in the 80s and 90s. As someone born in the late 80s, all the people I know growing up don’t know the film, but know the ride. The ride is basically it’s own IP. Without social media, I think the characters would have lost all connection to the film and only been associated with the ride.

 

[seabreezept813]

The majority view of Brer Rabbit is that he was supposed to represent the blacks who when the stories originated were slaves, the Fox and Bear were supposed to be the whites. The Rabbit was always outsmarting the dumb fox and bear. I'm sure if you want to you can come up with any twist or turn you want on the whole thing, just like you could put a different spin on Goldilocks and the Three Bears or any other little kid story and make turn it 180 degrees from where it was originally.

And yet several people are also saying the fox and bear are African American stereotypes, so I do think that the consensus is not really clear. I’m not sure what the original tales intended..

 

[thomas998]

Also the majority of parents would probably just say they are Splash characters. Parents right now grew up in the 80s and 90s. As someone born in the late 80s, all the people I know growing up don’t know the film, but know the ride. The ride is basically it’s own IP. Without social media, I think the characters would have lost all connection to the film and only been associated with the ride.

True. Of course there is claim that Disney's re-release in 1986 was to help promote the ride (frankly I doubt the truth in that since the ride was far from complete at that time and suspect the re-release was simply because it was the 40th anniversary of the film). If Disney were smart they would create a group in the company that was dedicated to eliminating negative publicity, that would go scour the internet and do all they could to remove the fake negative stories that permeate the internet like stink in a locker room. Otherwise this isn't going to be a one off, the only question is which ride will be targeted next.

 

[kong1802]

Also the majority of parents would probably just say they are Splash characters. Parents right now grew up in the 80s and 90s. As someone born in the late 80s, all the people I know growing up don’t know the film, but know the ride. The ride is basically it’s own IP. Without social media, I think the characters would have lost all connection to the film and only been associated with the ride.

I do agree with this to an extent.

Also born in early 80's. Only knew of Splash characters as splash characters, until revealed later that it was part of SoTS.

Social media and the advent of the internet has shared a lot of information, for better or for worse. I wish I never knew the relationship of the two, as I think Splash is one of the greatest rides ever built, and personally think its far enough removed from its source material. However, I can see how it can be viewed as a support for the film to some. I do wish that wasn't the case. I honestly do. But I don't fault anyone for seeing it as a "stamp of approval" on the source. I really really really hope the retheme is done to its highest level and keeps that ride as one of the greatest in Disney history.

 

[thomas998]

And yet several people are also saying the fox and bear are African American stereotypes, so I do think that the consensus is not really clear. I’m not sure what the original tales intended..

That is one of the big problems with any story where the characters are animals. Unless the author specifically states that X represents Y the imagination of the readers will end up making connections what may or may not be correct. I can't remember the author, but I do remember that their book was widely being interpreted by English teachers trying to show all sorts of symbolism... yet in an interview the author said he didn't write it to have any symbolism he just wrote it to try and make money. So no one will ever know who the characters were truly supposed to be now that the author has long past.