DHS Mickey and Minnie's Runaway Railway confirmed

[marni1971]

Will the same engine stay with us from scene to scene or will the engine depart and join up with another group of cars?

I believe the engine will depart

 

[GlacierGlacier]

The ride is apparently projected at 10k, but could be upscaled to that (most likely). They dance around actual render resolution in that article, and I really doubt it's a coincidence. The angle of view in FoP isn't all that much larger than a modern theater's main auditorium. Definitely not double, width wise, if you sit in the sweet spot for movies. Add in that you are moving, which is going to severely hinder your ability to discern pixels, and I still highly doubt 95% of viewers would notice if it was 4k. And the other 5% probably sit 15 feet from their awesome 4k TV at home.

I'm just a loon right? Well, let's dig into details.

Using this distance graph, for 4k, the slope is about 8 feet per 120 inches.

https://www.thx.com/assets/uploads/2017/01/1-ghF7Unj-vk60wyKUiVy4EQ.jpeg

FoP's screen is said to be 70' x 100' so the diagonal is about 1500", assuming no curve. So for 4k to be fully seen at 1500", you'd need to be at least within 96 feet of the screen. For a 1080p image (half resolution of 4k), it looks about half the slope. I don't know for sure, but we'll assume 8k is half the slope of 4k. If we extrapolated that, then for an 8k resolution, at 100", you would need to be about 4 feet, or 60 feet for FoP. And I'll be darn, the center of the screen is about 30 feet from the center seats, of that. But, the farther you get out, you quickly start getting 60 feet away for parts of the screen. So, it does seem most seats are close enough to see 8k, with some assumptions.

However, I felt the edges, that some people are VERY close to, are blurry, and anyone not in the center seats is more than 60 feet from the other side of the screen.

Add in the screen is curved, and actually MUCH wider, by linear inches, than 100 feet, so it's sorta unclear what the horizontal resolution is. 10k should be the vertical resolution, but that would assume 100 linear feet of screen width, when it is probably closer to 150

So, taking in to account the motion, the fact most folks are likely more than the maximum distance away to truly even see 8k in half of the screen (especially taking into account 2/3 of the people are above or below the sweet spot by a good distance), and I have a real hard time believing they rendered at 8k. It would have been quite a waste.

I once found this INCREDIBLE video about what you eye can really see. By the cinematographer of The Last Jedi, among other films. It's very long, but is about as visual fact based as I've seen. Ultimately, it proves that even in a local theater 4k is unnecessary. And those screens can get to be equal to 1/2 the dimensions of the FoP screen. A GREAT watch, if you're a big time theater nerd.

http://yedlin.net/ResDemo/ResDemoPt2.html

What does all this mean? They may be projecting in 10k (not sure how, since I can't see it being more than 2 4k projectors on top of each other. Hell, it may have even been rendered in 10k (but I just don't believe that, maybe 5k per eye, which is sorta what "4k" home projectors do with pixel shift). But, ultimately, even 4k would have been enough for the vast majority of people, especially at 60 fps, and taking in to account your eyes are moving MUCH more than they do in a regular theater. Plus, they are looking through old 3D glasses with scratches, and multiple layers of distorting plastic in them.

You may find this article interesting:

AVATAR: FLIGHT OF PASSAGE: A Cinematic, Multi-Sensory 3D Experience that Soars - VFX Voice

How Avatar became a 3D thrill ride at Walt Disney World's Animal Kingdom.

vfxvoice.com

The relevant parts:

Weta was responsible for creating all of the final rendered imagery that audiences view on the ride. “Although the ride was made up of distinctly different environments, the entire ride is essentially one continuous shot that runs for 4.5 minutes and spans a distance of 11.2km. The shots were made more challenging due to the fact that the required resolution was 10K at 60fps, and they had to be rendered and delivered in omni-directional stereo,” says Shadbolt.

Weta’s biggest challenge was delivering images at 10k, 60 fps stereo. “We had to optimize all parts of our pipeline and make enhancements to Manuka to make this possible...

“We needed to develop glasses that functioned with a 160-degree field-of-view screen. Typically, theatrical or cinema glasses only support 90-degree field of view. We also wanted as little visual intrusion of the glasses [as possible] as we wanted folks to have as natural a stereo experience as possible. We opted for as translucent a frame as we could get, along with as much clear filter as we could afford. Essentially, we wanted the glasses to disappear,” comments Jupiter.

In short: Weta Digital and Lightstorm Entertainment rendered at 10k, 60 FPS, 160FOV for the entire attraction. They chose 3D glasses that resulted in the smallest distortion and obstruction possible.

And as far as projectors go? Disney is no stranger to large scale, high-resolution projectors tiled together to create larger, higher quality displays. They even have published research papers detailing their automatic calibration process.

Odd resolutions are not uncommon, either.

 

[flynnibus]

And why does Universal have 3 parks

Because you'd be stupid to increase your offering 50% and not be able to charge more for it. Multiple parks gives you the ability to scale your offering's price points.. and give perceived value to create upsell opportunities.

All things you can't do with a 'one price for everything' model.

Now back to useless UNI sucks, DIZ drools arguments.

 

[BlakeW39]

Because you'd be stupid to increase your offering 50% and not be able to charge more for it. Multiple parks gives you the ability to scale your offering's price points.. and give perceived value to create upsell opportunities.

All things you can't do with a 'one price for everything' model.

Now back to useless UNI sucks, DIZ drools arguments.

That's literally not what I meant at all, I'm just suggesting that Universal's two current parks do not differ enough justify their separation. It isn't like MK vs Epcot vs DAK.

You coming at me with the classic companies want money argument is silly because we all know that Disney and Universal will charge for whatever they can lol. Plus I don't UNI sucks. I like IoA a lot. I just don't think Universal Studios brings anything to the table aside from Diagon, which should be in IoA imo.

P.S. yes these arguments are pointless but I was convinced they were over lol

 

[flynnibus]

That's literally not what I meant at all, I'm just suggesting that Universal's two current parks do not differ enough justify their separation. It isn't like MK vs Epcot vs DAK.

The point you are missing is... the reason for multiple parks is a business one... not just a creative one.

 

[BlakeW39]

The point you are missing is... the reason for multiple parks is a business one... not just a creative one.

lol I haven't missed it, my question was rhetorical, obviously they have parks because they can make money. I was merely implying that they shouldn't have so many parks if they can't make them distinct. But I still like IoA and will likely enjoy FW just as much.

 

[DeletedAccount55555]

I'm all for starting a new thread on this, especially if someone wants to debate how USF could overhaul its entrance.

 

[IMDREW]

It’ll blow your socks off.

Ooh @marni1971, I didn’t know you knew anything about Uni’s new park! Do tell !!

Is Fantastic Beast land/world still a thing?

 

[Hawg G]

I maintain that if FoP were a Universal attraction, Disney fans would crap all over it for being a screen-based ride. It's probably the best flying theater attraction out there, but acting like it's some revolutionary ride among the best of all time shows, to me, extreme Disney bias. Your Mouse ears are on too tight.



I do agree that Universal Studios Florida lacks a cohesive theme, but it wasn't aiming to have one in the first place. The layout of the park reflects how Universal thought of it as a production facility first. DHS of course trying to be a legit production facility too, but they still had a traditional Main Street-and-Castle layout welcoming guests. USF's weenie is a 2D flat of the New York Public Library, for crying out loud.

My first thought when Epcot's redesigned entrance was announced was that USF needs an even greater overhaul. They have some space to do it considering they could utilize the side entrance to the park by the Blue Man Group.

As for USF not having an E-ticket and just "awful" D and Cs? It has what I consider the best interactive shooting ride ever created, Men in Black: Alien Attack (and no screens!) as well as Revenge of the Mummy, an indoor coaster with storytelling elements that Disney still hasn't matched 15 years later (maybe Guardians will change that). Even Gringotts is beyond what Disney has attempted in combining storytelling elements with a coaster.

As I've said, Flight of Wizardry, would be so looked down on by the DizNoids. It would be just another reason they never go to Universal

Mummy is E ticket on every front, and blows away any themed Disney indoor coaster. I mean, saying TRON, which is a low end coaster system, with a theme destroying outside section to start, followed by a black box with no real TRON theming an E ticket. Then saying a high end coaster system with multiple dark ride sections, 4 AAs, high end fire effects, and multiple direction changes NOT an E ticket pretty much destroys all credibility

 

[Markiewong]

As I've said, Flight of Wizardry, would be so looked down on by the DizNoids. It would be just another reason they never go to Universal

Mummy is E ticket on every front, and blows away any themed Disney indoor coaster. I mean, saying TRON, which is a low end coaster system, with a theme destroying outside section to start, followed by a black box with no real TRON theming an E ticket. Then saying a high end coaster system with multiple dark ride sections, 4 AAs, high end fire effects, and multiple direction changes NOT an E ticket pretty much destroys all credibility

You do realize that you are spitting a stream of bull now? Disney fans have nothing but praise for Spiderman and Forbidden Journey (which happen to also be Throwbridge’s attractions ). We only profit from the competition between Disney and Universal. And we can partly thank Universal for waking Imagineering up and creating Pandora and Galaxy’s Edge.

But calling TRON a low end coaster? The coaster is a complete redesign from the original Booster bike iteration. New track, new brakes, complete unique trains, a really strong launch... and you call that ‘low end’. Is Taron low end as well then?

 

[Hawg G]

You may find this article interesting:

AVATAR: FLIGHT OF PASSAGE: A Cinematic, Multi-Sensory 3D Experience that Soars - VFX Voice

How Avatar became a 3D thrill ride at Walt Disney World's Animal Kingdom.

vfxvoice.com

The relevant parts:




In short: Weta Digital and Lightstorm Entertainment rendered at 10k, 60 FPS, 160FOV for the entire attraction. They chose 3D glasses that resulted in the smallest distortion and obstruction possible.

And as far as projectors go? Disney is no stranger to large scale, high-resolution projectors tiled together to create larger, higher quality displays. They even have published research papers detailing their automatic calibration process.

Odd resolutions are not uncommon, either.

That's been posted over and over. No one debates, they just dismiss, and post that.

1: a 10k image would either require 2x2 8k 3D projector array at high frame rate (such a projector doesn't even exist, I don't believe). This would be stupid, as a vast majority of the second level of VERY expensive projectors in each theater would be wasted, which isn't something Disney is likely to do. Or they are using a 3x3 array of 4K HFR 3D projectors that do exist, but still wasting quite a bit of the projectors' resolution. I'd love someone in the know to say which of these ridiculous systems is in use. It's simple math, a 4x4 array of 4K projectors is what is being used. I simply don't believe anything else.

2. Most likely the image is being called 10k, but is a 5k pixel shift image, similar to low end home "4K" projectors that fool your brain to think you are seeing a higher resolution by showing 2 2k images, slightly shifted. It is definitely a viable option, especially when the receptors (eyes) are moving a lot, and won't be able to see a true 10k image anyway.

 

[BlakeW39]

As I've said, Flight of Wizardry, would be so looked down on by the DizNoids. It would be just another reason they never go to Universal

Mummy is E ticket on every front, and blows away any themed Disney indoor coaster. I mean, saying TRON, which is a low end coaster system, with a theme destroying outside section to start, followed by a black box with no real TRON theming an E ticket. Then saying a high end coaster system with multiple dark ride sections, 4 AAs, high end fire effects, and multiple direction changes NOT an E ticket pretty much destroys all credibility

Nobody said Mummy wasn't E. It's a very good ride. Very dated, but very good. It isn't as good as Everest but I would agree it is better than many Disney coasters. Sometimes I do forget about this ride though.

 

[Hawg G]

You do realize that you are spitting a stream of bull now? Disney fans have nothing but praise for Spiderman and Forbidden Journey (which happen to also be Throwbridge’s attractions ). We only profit from the competition between Disney and Universal. And we can partly thank Universal for waking Imagineering up and creating Pandora and Galaxy’s Edge.

But calling TRON a low end coaster? The coaster is a complete redesign from the original Booster bike iteration. New track, new brakes, complete unique trains, a really strong launch... and you call that ‘low end’. Is Taron low end as well then?

Taron is a Vekoma Motorbike coaster?

 

[HauntedPirate]

Is this a Spirit thread? Because it way off the rails... Oh wait, does that mean all this non-MMRR talk somehow fits with MMRR? My Magic 8-Ball© says... "Nope"

 

[DisneyfanMA]

You do realize that you are spitting a stream of bull now? Disney fans have nothing but praise for Spiderman and Forbidden Journey (which happen to also be Throwbridge’s attractions ). We only profit from the competition between Disney and Universal. And we can partly thank Universal for waking Imagineering up and creating Pandora and Galaxy’s Edge.

But calling TRON a low end coaster? The coaster is a complete redesign from the original Booster bike iteration. New track, new brakes, complete unique trains, a really strong launch... and you call that ‘low end’. Is Taron low end as well then?

Good thoughts. The partisanship for fans towards one of the 2 brands of parks reminds me of being in high school and arguing about cars with other kids my age -allegiance to Ford or GM, or domestic vs european or asian car brands. Fast forward 25 years and the performance cars now are all amazing thanks to all the competition forcing everyone to step up their offerings. We all won. And speaking only for myself I can appreciate all types of performance cars, even if I have my favorites without hating on the others.

Long story short, can't we be fans of BOTH Disney and Universal here? Having not been to US since 1990 and been only to Disney for a single day (10 years ago) since 1990, I cannot comment on these modern rides other than what I've seen on youtube...however Tron looks AMAZING and I cannot wait til it comes to MK. I am going back to Disney in Nov 2020 with kids. I won't experience Tron but will hopefully see Mickey, Star Wars Land and Ratatouille. We are also absolutely packing in a day with hopper to the 2 US parks, as I fondly remember even back in 1990 really enjoying the US park. But with 3 kids aged 4-8 by then, Disney will be our focus, with US getting 1 full day, Disney at least 4 or 5.

 

[DeletedAccount55555]

You do realize that you are spitting a stream of bull now? Disney fans have nothing but praise for Spiderman and Forbidden Journey (which happen to also be Throwbridge’s attractions ). We only profit from the competition between Disney and Universal. And we can partly thank Universal for waking Imagineering up and creating Pandora and Galaxy’s Edge.

"Nothing but praise" is going too far. Those two often get thrown into the "too many screens" argument. Spider-Man even more so because it doesn't have the animatronics that Forbidden Journey offers.

If anything, the praise heaped on those two attractions destroys the argument that Universal's problem is simply "too many screens." The issue is screens being used lazily, like Fast & Furious, Fallon and Kong.

And yes, Universal deserves credit for stepping up its game and pushing Imagineering. The problem is Disney fans generally don't phrase it that way. It's more like backhanded compliments like "Diagon Alley and Hogsmeade are great, but that's all that's great at Universal."

Or framing Galaxy's Edge as some sort of Universal killer, rather than hoping to see how Galaxy's Edge will push Universal to up its game and not rest its laurels on the Wizarding World.

That's a big part of this debate: I recognize and appreciate that the competition between Disney and Universal is great for everyone. Too many Disney fans see Universal as the enemy that needs to destroyed. All hail the Almighty Mouse.

 

[Hawg G]

Nobody said Mummy wasn't E. It's a very good ride. Very dated, but very good. It isn't as good as Everest but I would agree it is better than many Disney coasters. Sometimes I do forget about this ride though.

Well, it was said USF had no E tickets. Mummy is there. As is Transformers, which is above and beyond any similar Disney ride. Plus MIB, and Gringotts. If none of those are E ticket, none of the announced Disney rides, including MMRR, is E either

 

[BlakeW39]

Well, it was said USF had no E tickets. Mummy is there. As is Transformers, which is above and beyond any similar Disney ride. Plus MIB, and Gringotts. If none of those are E ticket, none of the announced Disney rides, including MMRR, is E either

Idk what you're talking about regarding USF having so Es, I didn't see anyone say that and I didn't, I did question the quality of their Es at pne point though. Mummy is the exception. Transformers is not good, it's just a bad clone of Spider-Man (a muchh better ride). MIB is good but not great in my opinion, though I could see why someone would call is that. Gringotts is not great and only debatably good. I like Gringotts more than some and even I think it's kind of lame considering how good it could be.

 

[BlakeW39]

Is this a Spirit thread? Because it way off the rails... Oh wait, does that mean all this non-MMRR talk somehow fits with MMRR? My Magic 8-Ball© says... "Nope"

LOL you're right. Let's get back on track. Ask a question

 

[DeletedAccount55555]

Idk what you're talking about regarding USF having so Es, I didn't see anyone say that and I didn't, I did question the quality of their Es at pne point though. Mummy is the exception. Transformers is not good, it's just a bad clone of Spider-Man (a muchh better ride). MIB is good but not great in my opinion, though I could see why someone would call is that. Gringotts is not great and only debatably good. I like Gringotts more than some and even I think it's kind of lame considering how good it could be.

Unpopular opinion, Universal Studios is a STAIN on Orlando theme parks in comparison to even DHS. It has no theme, just a cluster of mess, it has awful D ticket and C ticket attractions (yes they are admitted to be D and C, but they are still bad ones), and not one great E. Not one.

You did in fact say USF has "not one great E." You're now admitting Mummy is an exception, so you're contradicting yourself.

The rest is just your opinion that you don't even back up with an argument.

You can criticize Transformers for having the same ride system as Spider-Man. You can't call it a clone unless you're also attach that insult to any two Disney rides that use the same ride technology.

My guess is it's viewed differently because of how physically close Universal's parks are, making it much more likely guests will ride both in the same day. Or just because Disney fans hold Universal to a different standard.