Michael Jackson

[LittleBuford]

Yeah- Lennon was just a giant ***, but Elvis was basically R. Kelly but a rock icon.... I see where you are coming from- but I don’t quite agree. That’s not to say any of his artistry excuses his actions... just that time has a way of making things a bit hazy when it comes to culture and influence.

I guess only time will tell. I can think of two singers whose careers ended after they were exposed as paedophiles (Gary Glitter and Ian Watkins), but they were much less famous than Jackson to begin with, plus the latter is, of course, no longer in a position to respond to these latest allegations. Indeed, if anything saves Jackson, it’ll be the fact that he’s already dead.

 

[Princess Leia]

So the Washington Post re-ran the innocent verdict story from 2003, and I just want to highlight 2 sentences:

Previous incidents and allegations against Jackson were presented under a California law that allows a defendant’s past actions to be weighed in sex crimes. Jurors said they found some of this evidence credible, but not enough to convict.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/history/2019/03/03/jury-acquits-jackson-how-king-pops-child-molestation-trial-was-reported/?utm_term=.0f4cfeb53628

 

[Scrooged]

So the Washington Post re-ran the innocent verdict story from 2003, and I just want to highlight 2 sentences:

Previous incidents and allegations against Jackson were presented under a California law that allows a defendant’s past actions to be weighed in sex crimes. Jurors said they found some of this evidence credible, but not enough to convict.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/history/2019/03/03/jury-acquits-jackson-how-king-pops-child-molestation-trial-was-reported/?utm_term=.0f4cfeb53628

Much like (the pathetic) R. Kelley case, where there’s smoke there is fire.

 

[Tick Tock]

This is stupid.

I'll probably regret doing this, but I'll bite.

If by "stupid", you're referencing the radio station for pulling Michael's songs, why? Why is that stupid? Why should stations idolize this man after what's been revealed?

And mind you, I too am one of those anti-angry mob people. I believe we all do stupid things. But this isn't another Roseanne, Curt Schilling, etc. incident of another celebrity saying ignorant things. This has to do with the molestation of children. So why are radio stations stupid for pulling his content?

And if I happened to misread your comment, and you were calling Michael's actions stupid (a far understatement), and not directing that toward the radio station, then disregard my confusion.

 

[Sir_Cliff]

I guess only time will tell. I can think of two singers whose careers ended after they were exposed as paedophiles (Gary Glitter and Ian Watkins), but they were much less famous than Jackson to begin with, plus the latter is, of course, no longer in a position to respond to these latest allegations. Indeed, if anything saves Jackson, it’ll be the fact that he’s already dead.

It is a tough one as the crime of child molestation is particularly hard to compartmentalise, but I also get @Scrooged's point in that Jackson's cultural influence is just so huge that it will be hard to suddenly erase his music from the world. A lot of his songs are also uniquely beloved, so there's this weird cognitive dissonance now when hearing stuff like Rock With You, Billie Jean, or Thriller in that I think a lot of us are kind of hardwired to enjoy them.

Right now, I couldn't imagine listening to Michael Jackson music or going to see a MJ broadway show... though, honestly, I was never likely to go to that anyway. I think I will miss a lot of the songs if they disappear, though. The director of the documentary, Dan Reed, made a comment that resonated with me in this regard: "But you walk away and it’s a sad moment, because another nice thing about the world has gone dark — the lights have gone out on a whole center of your cultural space."
https://www.vulture.com/2019/01/leaving-neverland-sundance-michael-jackson-abuse-dan-reed.html

 

[Scrooged]

"But you walk away and it’s a sad moment, because another nice thing about the world has gone dark — the lights have gone out on a whole center of your cultural space."
https://www.vulture.com/2019/01/leaving-neverland-sundance-michael-jackson-abuse-dan-reed.html

Wow. That hits it home right there. I’m going to try and watch this doc- but im
Not sure I’ll make it all the way through.

 

[21stamps]

I'll probably regret doing this, but I'll bite.

If by "stupid", you're referencing the radio station for pulling Michael's songs, why? Why is that stupid? Why should stations idolize this man after what's been revealed?

And mind you, I too am one of those anti-angry mob people. I believe we all do stupid things. But this isn't another Roseanne, Curt Schilling, etc. incident of another celebrity saying ignorant things. This has to do with the molestation of children. So why are radio stations stupid for pulling his content?

And if I happened to misread your comment, and you were calling Michael's actions stupid (a far understatement), and not directing that toward the radio station, then disregard my confusion.

What’s been revealed is a very a one sided, (and by very, I mean- completely) documentary featuring 2 men who once said he was innocent, and then years later filed a lawsuit, lawsuit didn’t pan out, documentary happened a while later.

Maybe MJ is guilty, maybe not. I don’t know. I do know that other child “friends” say nothing happened, yet the director is basically calling them liars, which is ridiculous. And I know that MJ was under investigation for what, 15 years or something?, and not found guilty.

Based on all of the above, the actions of erasing or refusing to play his music are going a bit too far.

 

[Princess Leia]

It is a tough one as the crime of child molestation is particularly hard to compartmentalise, but I also get @Scrooged's point in that Jackson's cultural influence is just so huge that it will be hard to suddenly erase his music from the world. A lot of his songs are also uniquely beloved, so there's this weird cognitive dissonance now when hearing stuff like Rock With You, Billie Jean, or Thriller in that I think a lot of us are kind of hardwired to enjoy them.

Right now, I couldn't imagine listening to Michael Jackson music or going to see a MJ broadway show... though, honestly, I was never likely to go to that anyway. I think I will miss a lot of the songs if they disappear, though. The director of the documentary, Dan Reed, made a comment that resonated with me in this regard: "But you walk away and it’s a sad moment, because another nice thing about the world has gone dark — the lights have gone out on a whole center of your cultural space."
https://www.vulture.com/2019/01/leaving-neverland-sundance-michael-jackson-abuse-dan-reed.html

So I’ve never been a fan of Billie Jean (and hearing it at multiple weddings just always leaves me asking why that’s the MJ song they choose to play), but Wanna Be Starting Something, The Way You Make Me Feel, and Human Nature are my three favorite MJ songs, the former being my go to karaoke song a couple years ago. I think I can live without the rest of the songs, but those three are going to be hard to give up.

As for the Jacksons and the Jackson 5... that’s another discussion entirely.

 

[21stamps]

It is a tough one as the crime of child molestation is particularly hard to compartmentalise, but I also get @Scrooged's point in that Jackson's cultural influence is just so huge that it will be hard to suddenly erase his music from the world. A lot of his songs are also uniquely beloved, so there's this weird cognitive dissonance now when hearing stuff like Rock With You, Billie Jean, or Thriller in that I think a lot of us are kind of hardwired to enjoy them.

Right now, I couldn't imagine listening to Michael Jackson music or going to see a MJ broadway show... though, honestly, I was never likely to go to that anyway. I think I will miss a lot of the songs if they disappear, though. The director of the documentary, Dan Reed, made a comment that resonated with me in this regard: "But you walk away and it’s a sad moment, because another nice thing about the world has gone dark — the lights have gone out on a whole center of your cultural space."
https://www.vulture.com/2019/01/leaving-neverland-sundance-michael-jackson-abuse-dan-reed.html

I’ve thought about this the past couple days, I don’t think it will happen. I think some people will feel the same as you do.. but I think there are too many millions of fans who do not feel the same, who love his music and appreciate his contributions to the world during his lifetime.
A few radio stations may stop playing him, but I don’t think the world will suddenly give up his music over this documentary.

 

[xdan0920]

What’s been revealed is a very a one sided, (and by very, I mean- completely) documentary featuring 2 men who once said he was innocent, and then years later filed a lawsuit, lawsuit didn’t pan out, documentary happened a while later.

Maybe MJ is guilty, maybe not. I don’t know. I do know that other child “friends” say nothing happened, yet the director is basically calling them liars, which is ridiculous. And I know that MJ was under investigation for what, 15 years or something?, and not found guilty.

Based on all of the above, the actions of erasing or refusing to play his music are going a bit too far.

This is the Twitter mob I was referring too. Willful ignorance is the worst kind of ignorance.

 

[DisneyGigi]

I was a kid, like 8, maybe when Thriller came out. It was my first album. I still have it. I think I always in later years thought he was questionable- but avoided all the reports because I loved the music. After watching this though, I just could not listen to his music. The Disney connection to me made it even worse. Walt wanted to make a place for families to be with their kids, not to sleep with them in his bed with a kazillion locks on the door. I am sorry. It is sick. My opinion, and mine alone- tho.

 

[21stamps]

This is the Twitter mob I was referring too. Willful ignorance is the worst kind of ignorance.

I don’t post on Twitter. I’m just not on the bandwagon of ‘proven guilty based on an accusation’, maybe I’m not trendy enough.

 

[BuddyThomas]

This is hard to watch after the HBO doc......ughhh....

 

[Scrooged]

I don’t post on Twitter. I’m just not on the bandwagon of ‘proven guilty based on an accusation’, maybe I’m not trendy enough.

“September 1993: Jordan Chandler’s parents file a lawsuit against Jackson”

“January 1994: Jackson settles the case”

These two moments in this timeline are important. No one hands out $25 million dollars for an unfounded accusation to make a court case stop. It’s as simple as that. It would cost less to litigate it and be found acquitted. He dodged the first time, and the second time it went to trial.

Regardless, he’s dead now. But like I’ve said before there’s way too much smoke here. Gotta be at least a flame nearby.

Source (with sources listed in article): https://www.independent.co.uk/arts-...leaving-neverland-hbo-channel-4-a8807071.html

 

[BuddyThomas]

I’ve thought about this the past couple days, I don’t think it will happen. I think some people will feel the same as you do.. but I think there are too many millions of fans who do not feel the same, who love his music and appreciate his contributions to the world during his lifetime.
A few radio stations may stop playing him, but I don’t think the world will suddenly give up his music over this documentary.

Maybe you'd feel differently if he molested your child.

 

[BuddyThomas]

This is the Twitter mob I was referring too. Willful ignorance is the worst kind of ignorance.

Venture down to the political thread from time to time to see her in full action, lol.

 

[BuddyThomas]

What’s been revealed is a very a one sided, (and by very, I mean- completely) documentary featuring 2 men who once said he was innocent, and then years later filed a lawsuit, lawsuit didn’t pan out, documentary happened a while later.

Maybe MJ is guilty, maybe not. I don’t know. I do know that other child “friends” say nothing happened, yet the director is basically calling them liars, which is ridiculous. And I know that MJ was under investigation for what, 15 years or something?, and not found guilty.

Based on all of the above, the actions of erasing or refusing to play his music are going a bit too far.

Yes, play the music of a child molester in your house. Have fun. It goes along with you giving an orange lunatic a pass on everything he does, so carry on.

 

[LittleBuford]

I am 45 minutes into the first episode, and it's far more disturbing than anything I read could have prepared me for. What these men are saying rings too true for me not to believe them.

 

[21stamps]

“September 1993: Jordan Chandler’s parents file a lawsuit against Jackson”

“January 1994: Jackson settles the case”

These two moments in this timeline are important. No one hands out $25 million dollars for an unfounded accusation to make a court case stop. It’s as simple as that. It would cost less to litigate it and be found acquitted. He dodged the first time, and the second time it went to trial.

Regardless, he’s dead now. But like I’ve said before there’s way too much smoke here. Gotta be at least a flame nearby.

Source (with sources listed in article): https://www.independent.co.uk/arts-...leaving-neverland-hbo-channel-4-a8807071.html

I’m old enough to remember that without needing a source. Unfortunately.
Maybe that’s the difference. People now just hearing about this for the first time, weren’t alive or old enough to follow it back then? New outrage.

People settle for a lot of reasons. I honestly don’t know if he’s guilty, I don’t think he is.. but I can’t say for certain. Either can anyone else. I don’t care who refuses to listen to his music. I just care that the stupidity of the Canadian article doesn’t spread. I also care that people aren’t painted as liars by a director. I think what he said about Corey Feldman and Macaulay Culkin is nothing short of shameful. It’s trendy to make people a victim, even when they aren’t. Perfect social climate for this type of ‘documentary’.

 

[21stamps]

Yes, play the music of a child molester in your house. Have fun. It goes along with you giving an orange lunatic a pass on everything he does, so carry on.

I will continue to play MJ’s music. His life was amazing and tragic.

I know you’ve never met a trending outrage that you didn’t like, no matter if the story is true or not. There’s people who have always thought he was guilty, and maybe they didn’t buy his Wii game or watch This is It, or continue to buy his music. I can understand that. Do what you want, believe what you want, each person. What we don’t need to do is erase his place in history.
Enjoy your outrage.