Michael Jackson

[BuddyThomas]

I will continue to play MJ’s music. His life was amazing and tragic.

I know you’ve never met a trending outrage that you didn’t like, no matter if the story is true or not. There’s people who have always thought he was guilty, and maybe they didn’t buy his Wii game or watch This is It, or continue to buy his music. I can understand that. Do what you want, believe what you want, each person. What we don’t need to do is erase his place in history.
Enjoy your outrage.

Enjoy you child molester music. And your blindness.

 

[21stamps]

Here’s something to watch if you missed it last month..

Celebrity Videos, Red Carpet Videos, Movie Trailers - E! Online

See hot celebrity videos, E! News Now clips, interviews, movie premiers, exclusives, and more!

m.eonline.com

 

[BuddyThomas]

Here’s something to watch if you missed it last month..

Celebrity Videos, Red Carpet Videos, Movie Trailers - E! Online

See hot celebrity videos, E! News Now clips, interviews, movie premiers, exclusives, and more!

m.eonline.com

It boggles the mind, all the reprehensible things that you constantly twist yourself into knots trying to defend. You are posting this and I can 100% guarantee you that you have not seen the documentary in question, which I am sure you would ultimately brand as “fake”. But coming from the person who still supports the orange hobgoblin and thinks Ann Coulter is awesome, this all comes as no surprise.

 

[21stamps]

It boggles the mind, all the reprehensible things that you constantly twist yourself into knots trying to defend. You are posting this and I can 100% guarantee you that you have not seen the documentary in question, which I am sure you would ultimately brand as “fake”. But coming from the person who still supports the orange hobgoblin and thinks Ann Coulter is awesome, this all comes as no surprise.

I don’t live in a headspace where I want to hang people based on an allegation.
There is so much to the Michael Jackson accusations... no one knows if they are true or false. All we know is that he was acquitted, other friends have denied such allegations, and the two men in this documentary, they also denied the allegations.. and then went searching for money several years later (after he was dead).
They could be telling the truth, or they could be lying.

That’s all we know for certain. None of that is enough to start erasing his music and contributions from the world.
The absence of critical thinking is how we ended up with the Jussie Smollett story. Remember when you viciously defended that? Or CovCath? Or Julie Swetnick? See the pattern with people who bounce from outrage to outrage?
This time, you’re safe though. No one is alive to show how wrong you may be.

 

[Scrooged]

Hey..... calm down. No gatekeepong or judgment necessary here. Discussion is good- accusations and high horses are useless. This shouldn’t be as cutthroat as the political thread. This could be a thoughtful discussion on pop culture through the lens of history- not a finger pointing forum stand-off.

 

[Sir_Cliff]

Walt wanted to make a place for families to be with their kids, not to sleep with them in his bed with a kazillion locks on the door. I am sorry. It is sick. My opinion, and mine alone- tho.

I remember when he died seeing a clip of Matt Lauer going through Neverland in what, I guess, was supposed to be a respectful look at Jackson's home. As he was going into the bedroom area, you saw all the locks and alarms. It seems a little ironic now, but I remember Lauer kind of uncomfortably acknowledging what everyone was thinking and my own mind drifting toward the conclusion that the circumstantial evidence was pretty damning.

I’ve thought about this the past couple days, I don’t think it will happen. I think some people will feel the same as you do.. but I think there are too many millions of fans who do not feel the same, who love his music and appreciate his contributions to the world during his lifetime.
A few radio stations may stop playing him, but I don’t think the world will suddenly give up his music over this documentary.

I really think it could go either way. People have already had to compartmentalise their view of Jackson and his music reacting to past allegations, so it's possible the majority of people will more or less ignore the documentary. I do think it will be the end of things like the Cirque de Soleil show and any kind of Broadway tribute. In other words, the end of Jackson as a mass cultural phenomenon. I could also imagine a world, though, in which almost nobody talks about the documentary and his songs are still played a year from now. If anything, that would kind of a return to the situation during the last decade or so of his life.

I am 45 minutes into the first episode, and it's far more disturbing than anything I read could have prepared me for. What these men are saying rings too true for me not to believe them.

I found it far more intense and disturbing that I had imagined. It's almost been hard to get it out of my head, to be honest, and it's all mixed up with the memories I have of MJ and his music. I even went to see him in concert when he came to Australia many years ago.

 

[Tick Tock]

I will continue to play MJ’s music. His life was amazing and tragic.

I'm not saying you're right or wrong. I'm not saying the radio stations are right or wrong. The world may never know what actually happened, though things are not looking good right now for Michael's already questionable reputation.

But speaking hypothetically, if all allegations and defenses were intact as-is, how would you feel if all this was being revealed not about a pop superstar, but a middle-aged, creepy-looking, lower class fast food worker? How much defense, looking the other way, and forgiveness would he receive from social media?

Whether or not we know all the facts on what went on behind closed doors, when does it become acceptable for any grown man to think it's okay to have "sleep overs" with children?

Does social status and fame make it more acceptable? Does the catchiness of their music? When does it become not okay?

Your honest thoughts: Creepy-looking Joe burger-flipper is having the same allegations thrown at him. How do you and the Twitter defense crew feel about him?

 

[21stamps]

I'm not saying you're right or wrong. I'm not saying the radio stations are right or wrong. The world may never know what actually happened, though things are not looking good right now for Michael's already questionable reputation.

But speaking hypothetically, if all allegations and defenses were intact as-is, how would you feel if all this was being revealed not about a pop superstar, but a middle-aged, creepy-looking, lower class fast food worker? How much defense, looking the other way, and forgiveness would he receive from social media?

Whether or not we know all the facts on what went on behind closed doors, when does it become acceptable for any grown man to think it's okay to have "sleep overs" with children?

Does social status and fame make it more acceptable? Does the catchiness of their music? When does it become not okay?

Your honest thoughts: Creepy-looking Joe burger-flipper is having the same allegations thrown at him. How do you and the Twitter defense crew feel about him?

I’m not sure of your age, but I’m 40. I think everyone around my age was a huge fan of Michael Jackson at some point. My brother had a red leather ‘thriller’ jacket that he wore often, also had the hat and glove.. we were both MJ for Halloween several times. MJ’s music and works are intertwined with my childhood. I watched him change over the years and would think of how sad it was, and for being so famous and so loved, he kept losing more and more of himself, it was like watching someone who didn’t know themself, if that makes any sense.

Then the allegations came out. I was shocked like the rest of the world.. but when the settlement was made that’s when I doubted the accusations. I thought “If I had a child, there’s no way I would settle. I would fight with everything I had to see the abuser be sent to prison, and to lose everything. I would want him destroyed.” Because of that, and because of all of the other kids who said that he never touched them, I believed he was innoncent.

I continued to follow his life and career, and again with the rest of the world, was shocked and saddened by his death. I think I cried the entire way through “This is It”. His life truly was beautiful and tragic. He gave so much to the world, and it destroyed him.

Could it be that he was so messed up that he could abuse children? Maybe.
Does his involvement with children seem strange to me? No, because of who he is. Not that he’s famous, but because I think he truly wanted to help other children, because of his own wounds.

I’m a mother now, and I feel even more strongly about the settlement. I wouldn’t have accepted it. No way in hell. Not if my child was abused, and especially not if it was one of the most famous people in the world who could go on like nothing happened. I would have fought all the way.

The two men in the documentary are not at the best place in their careers currently. There’s a lot of red flags. They could be telling be the truth, but that “could” should not be enough for us to convict MJ. It’s not right to do that. There was a long, long investigation and nothing was found.

I have to repeat that I have a humongous problem with the director for dragging Macaulay Culkin into this. My heart goes out to him and the other kids (now adults) who stood up and are standing up for Michael. They are basically being called liars and people are turning them into victims. I also feel bad for Jackson’s kids. He’s not here to defend himself. There were also a few times during the Oprah interview where I felt like those two men weren’t making sense, like they were purposely avoiding an answer to what she was really asking.

Bottom line, Michael Jackson can’t be compared to Creepy Joe, because Michael Jackson is a whole mess of a different creature than anyone else. I think we all will choose what to believe, but we have to recognize that what we believe doesn’t make something true or untrue. We don’t know what really happened.

 

[21stamps]

To add to the above, I understand that not abusing one kid would not equate to not abusing any, but Corey Feldman has legitimately talked about pedophilia for years. He blamed Corey Haim’s death on the people in their childhood (hopefully everyone here is old enough to know what I’m referring to)... but he has always been adamant that Michael Jackson was not one of those people, I would think that he, out of anyone, would have recognized it back then.

 

[Princess Leia]

To add to the above, I understand that not abusing one kid would not equate to not abusing any, but Corey Feldman has legitimately talked about pedophilia for years. He blamed Corey Haim’s death on the people in their childhood (hopefully everyone here is old enough to know what I’m referring to)... but he has always been adamant that Michael Jackson was not one of those people, I would think that he, out of anyone, would have recognized it back then.

I’ve been paying attention to Feldman throughout all of this, because he’s been basing his entire look on MJ. And from what I think he said in his reaction to this was that he believes the men were abused, but maybe not by MJ.

 

[Princess Leia]

I remember when he died seeing a clip of Matt Lauer going through Neverland in what, I guess, was supposed to be a respectful look at Jackson's home. As he was going into the bedroom area, you saw all the locks and alarms. It seems a little ironic now, but I remember Lauer kind of uncomfortably acknowledging what everyone was thinking and my own mind drifting toward the conclusion that the circumstantial evidence was pretty damning.


I really think it could go either way. People have already had to compartmentalise their view of Jackson and his music reacting to past allegations, so it's possible the majority of people will more or less ignore the documentary. I do think it will be the end of things like the Cirque de Soleil show and any kind of Broadway tribute. In other words, the end of Jackson as a mass cultural phenomenon. I could also imagine a world, though, in which almost nobody talks about the documentary and his songs are still played a year from now. If anything, that would kind of a return to the situation during the last decade or so of his life.


I found it far more intense and disturbing that I had imagined. It's almost been hard to get it out of my head, to be honest, and it's all mixed up with the memories I have of MJ and his music. I even went to see him in concert when he came to Australia many years ago.

I would be very surprised if the Cirque show lasts past this year. Only one part of the documentary has aired, and I have a feeling that part 2 will draw more viewers, bringing more calls for shows to end.

I don’t see his music going away completely though. It might not get as much radioplay (especially over the next few months), but censoring him completely actually would bring more problems, especially on any classic rock, 70s pop, 80s pop, 90s stations... actually any kind of music station. People can personally choose not to listen to his music anymore, but I’m not sure if I support an overall ban.

 

[MerlinTheGoat]

I'm not going to get too deep into this debate if I can help it, but I see reason to be extremely wary about both Michael Jackson AND the accusers. I do understand why people would distrust the accusers based on their own inconsistent behavior and flip flopping. But Jackson's behavior was also very suspicious, going well beyond "super weird guy that never grew up". His observable uncomfortable and inappropriate relations with children would stand apart as reason to be suspicious, regardless of the accusers or whether they're telling the truth or not.

I will mention that Corey Feldman has his own controversies. He has been talking about pedophilia in Hollywood for years off and on. Back in 2017, Corey Feldman launched a $10 million IndieGoGo fundraiser with the apparent purpose to create a documentary that would expose a lot of unnamed pedophiles in Hollywood (it has come nowhere close to reaching that goal, it has barely even crossed a quarter of a million).

Corey Haim's mother Judy however responded to this campaign with anger. Here are some of her comments regarding her opinion on Feldman and his fundraiser-

"He’s been talking about revealing the names of his and other abusers for seven years, since my son died. Now he wants $10 million to do it? Come on. It’s a long con. He’s a scam artist. If he was serious about this, he’d share the information he has with the police. It’s disrespectful to sexual assault survivors and their loved ones in and out of the industry to get their hopes up about uncovering a massive conspiracy, because he will not name names — ever. And if these people really are out there, and potentially still a danger, why wouldn’t he want to name them right now? I don’t understand how the press that’s now giving him all of this attention isn’t getting it. It’s all a distraction."

That last line about distractions is in regards to a police drug bust and arrest Feldman had been in shortly before the campaign was launched. And his band having broken up a week before as well. In Judy's opinion, Feldman is a con artist who is exploiting her son and his death for attention and money. Judy has maintained that she does not believe there is a powerful pedophile ring infesting Hollywood, and claims that her son's molestation was an isolated case at the hands of one man on one single occasion. Not by multiple people on many different occasions as Feldman claims.

Feldman counter-attacked Haim's mother in a string of tweets, and didn't exactly come across particularly well.

"Judy Haim is a bad woman who vehemently protects evil! She has been creating distractions & diversions since her sons death, to shun away the feelings of true guilt she must bare, blasphemy. God sees all! There is no hiding when Judgement Day arrives. The truth's being revealed! The flood gates have opened, & nothing can stop it. But you will see the dark soul clammering to silence & discredit me. Only God can show you in your hearts what the truth is. Not about money, never was!"

Corey Haim’s Mom Calls Corey Feldman’s Pedophile Claims Bogus: “He’s a Scam Artist”

In an interview, Judy Haim says she believes Feldman’s documentary fundraising and appearance on NBC’s ‘Today’ show is a “distraction” from his recent drug arrest — just part of “…

www.hollywoodreporter.com

In addition to this, early in 2018 Corey Feldman wrote on his Twitter that he was attack and stabbed multiple times while in his car, claiming it was a hit put out by powerful pedophiles who were afraid of him naming names. Later on however, the hospital that treated him as well as the LAPD report claimed that he had no lacerations nor any evidence of stab wounds.

 

[21stamps]

I'm not going to get too deep into this debate if I can help it, but I see reason to be extremely wary about both Michael Jackson AND the accusers. I do understand why people would distrust the accusers based on their own inconsistent behavior and flip flopping. But Jackson's behavior was also very suspicious, going well beyond "super weird guy that never grew up". His observable uncomfortable and inappropriate relations with children would stand apart as reason to be suspicious, regardless of the accusers or whether they're telling the truth or not.

I will mention that Corey Feldman has his own controversies. He has been talking about pedophilia in Hollywood for years off and on. Back in 2017, Corey Feldman launched a $10 million IndieGoGo fundraiser with the apparent purpose to create a documentary that would expose a lot of unnamed pedophiles in Hollywood (it has come nowhere close to reaching that goal, it has barely even crossed a quarter of a million).

Corey Haim's mother Judy however responded to this campaign with anger. Here are some of her comments regarding her opinion on Feldman and his fundraiser-

"He’s been talking about revealing the names of his and other abusers for seven years, since my son died. Now he wants $10 million to do it? Come on. It’s a long con. He’s a scam artist. If he was serious about this, he’d share the information he has with the police. It’s disrespectful to sexual assault survivors and their loved ones in and out of the industry to get their hopes up about uncovering a massive conspiracy, because he will not name names — ever. And if these people really are out there, and potentially still a danger, why wouldn’t he want to name them right now? I don’t understand how the press that’s now giving him all of this attention isn’t getting it. It’s all a distraction."

That last line about distractions is in regards to a police drug bust and arrest Feldman had been in shortly before the campaign was launched. And his band having broken up a week before as well. In Judy's opinion, Feldman is a con artist who is exploiting her son and his death for attention and money. Judy has maintained that she does not believe there is a powerful pedophile ring infesting Hollywood, and claims that her son's molestation was an isolated case at the hands of one man on one single occasion. Not by multiple people on many different occasions as Feldman claims.

Feldman counter-attacked Haim's mother in a string of tweets, and didn't exactly come across particularly well.

"Judy Haim is a bad woman who vehemently protects evil! She has been creating distractions & diversions since her sons death, to shun away the feelings of true guilt she must bare, blasphemy. God sees all! There is no hiding when Judgement Day arrives. The truth's being revealed! The flood gates have opened, & nothing can stop it. But you will see the dark soul clammering to silence & discredit me. Only God can show you in your hearts what the truth is. Not about money, never was!"

Corey Haim’s Mom Calls Corey Feldman’s Pedophile Claims Bogus: “He’s a Scam Artist”

In an interview, Judy Haim says she believes Feldman’s documentary fundraising and appearance on NBC’s ‘Today’ show is a “distraction” from his recent drug arrest — just part of “…

www.hollywoodreporter.com

In addition to this, early in 2018 Corey Feldman wrote on his Twitter that he was attack and stabbed multiple times while in his car, claiming it was a hit put out by powerful pedophiles who were afraid of him naming names. Later on however, the hospital that treated him as well as the LAPD report claimed that he had no lacerations nor any evidence of stab wounds.

I’m confused, are you saying that Corey Feldman was molested by Michael Jackson?
Or that he’s lying when it comes to claiming that he and Corey Haim were molested?

 

[21stamps]

I'm not going to get too deep into this debate if I can help it, but I see reason to be extremely wary about both Michael Jackson AND the accusers. I do understand why people would distrust the accusers based on their own inconsistent behavior and flip flopping. But Jackson's behavior was also very suspicious, going well beyond "super weird guy that never grew up". His observable uncomfortable and inappropriate relations with children would stand apart as reason to be suspicious, regardless of the accusers or whether they're telling the truth or not.

I will mention that Corey Feldman has his own controversies. He has been talking about pedophilia in Hollywood for years off and on. Back in 2017, Corey Feldman launched a $10 million IndieGoGo fundraiser with the apparent purpose to create a documentary that would expose a lot of unnamed pedophiles in Hollywood (it has come nowhere close to reaching that goal, it has barely even crossed a quarter of a million).

Corey Haim's mother Judy however responded to this campaign with anger. Here are some of her comments regarding her opinion on Feldman and his fundraiser-

"He’s been talking about revealing the names of his and other abusers for seven years, since my son died. Now he wants $10 million to do it? Come on. It’s a long con. He’s a scam artist. If he was serious about this, he’d share the information he has with the police. It’s disrespectful to sexual assault survivors and their loved ones in and out of the industry to get their hopes up about uncovering a massive conspiracy, because he will not name names — ever. And if these people really are out there, and potentially still a danger, why wouldn’t he want to name them right now? I don’t understand how the press that’s now giving him all of this attention isn’t getting it. It’s all a distraction."

That last line about distractions is in regards to a police drug bust and arrest Feldman had been in shortly before the campaign was launched. And his band having broken up a week before as well. In Judy's opinion, Feldman is a con artist who is exploiting her son and his death for attention and money. Judy has maintained that she does not believe there is a powerful pedophile ring infesting Hollywood, and claims that her son's molestation was an isolated case at the hands of one man on one single occasion. Not by multiple people on many different occasions as Feldman claims.

Feldman counter-attacked Haim's mother in a string of tweets, and didn't exactly come across particularly well.

"Judy Haim is a bad woman who vehemently protects evil! She has been creating distractions & diversions since her sons death, to shun away the feelings of true guilt she must bare, blasphemy. God sees all! There is no hiding when Judgement Day arrives. The truth's being revealed! The flood gates have opened, & nothing can stop it. But you will see the dark soul clammering to silence & discredit me. Only God can show you in your hearts what the truth is. Not about money, never was!"

Corey Haim’s Mom Calls Corey Feldman’s Pedophile Claims Bogus: “He’s a Scam Artist”

In an interview, Judy Haim says she believes Feldman’s documentary fundraising and appearance on NBC’s ‘Today’ show is a “distraction” from his recent drug arrest — just part of “…

www.hollywoodreporter.com

In addition to this, early in 2018 Corey Feldman wrote on his Twitter that he was attack and stabbed multiple times while in his car, claiming it was a hit put out by powerful pedophiles who were afraid of him naming names. Later on however, the hospital that treated him as well as the LAPD report claimed that he had no lacerations nor any evidence of stab wounds.

I’m confused, are you saying that Corey Feldman was molested by Michael Jackson?

Or that he’s lying when saying both he and Corey Haim were molested and abused as children?

 

[LittleBuford]

I think we all will choose what to believe, but we have to recognize that what we believe doesn’t make something true or untrue. We don’t know what really happened.

Since you recognise this, it baffles me that you would dismiss some of our reactions as “trendy”. Those of us who believe the accusations aren’t gleefully following some hot new fashion. This is a deeply troubling, deeply upsetting matter, and even if you don’t agree with us, there’s no reason to belittle or doubt the sincerity of our feelings.

 

[MerlinTheGoat]

I’m confused, are you saying that Corey Feldman was molested by Michael Jackson?

Or that he’s lying when saying both he and Corey Haim were molested and abused as children?

Neither.

In my previous post, I was not giving MY opinion on Feldman and Haim. I was posting Corey Haim's mother's opinion. She provides "the other side of the story" regarding the reliability and honesty of Feldman in general. Corey Haim's mother adamantly believes that Feldman is a complete liar and con artist who is exploiting her son's death for money and attention. She claims that her own son Corey Haim was molested one single time by one person, and she doesn't believe there's an all powerful ring of pedophiles running Hollywood. Corey Feldman on the other hand claims that both he and Corey Haim (who to be fair IS dead and can't verify his own version of events) were serially molested on MANY occasions by MANY powerful Hollywood people. These are not my opinions.

However, someone is lying here. Or perhaps both are. But at the very least one of them knows the actual truth of Corey Haim's alleged molestation. And while it's not impossible that Feldman is telling the truth and that Haim's mother is covering some stuff up, Haim's mother gave a reasonable and rational explanation for the side that thinks Feldman is a liar and cheat. She brought up his drug addiction, arrest and his band failing. And noting how he keeps saying he has names of pedos and promises to share them, but never actually doing it or going to the police with them (instead saying he needs $10 million and a documentary before he's willing to expose anyone). Feldman meanwhile was unable to rationally rebut her statements. He instead went on Twitter in a dedranged rage, calling her an evil woman etc etc. And he lied about being stabbed by someone last year, claiming the pedophiles ordered a hit to silence him (the hospital and police report found no signs of any wound on him).

The point is, if you're going to say that Michael Jackson's accusers should be considered unreliable and untrustworthy based on past behavior and comments (which again I don't think is an invalid opinion to have), then it's important to note the reasons why you should be similarly skeptical of anything Corey Feldman says too.

 

[21stamps]

Neither.

In my previous post, I was not giving MY opinion on Feldman and Haim. I was posting Corey Haim's mother's opinion. She provides "the other side of the story" regarding the reliability and honesty of Feldman in general. Corey Haim's mother adamantly believes that Feldman is a complete liar and con artist who is exploiting her son's death for money and attention. She claims that her own son Corey Haim was molested one single time by one person, and she doesn't believe there's an all powerful ring of pedophiles running Hollywood. Corey Feldman on the other hand claims that both he and Corey Haim (who to be fair IS dead and can't verify his own version of events) were serially molested on MANY occasions by MANY powerful Hollywood people. These are not my opinions.

However, someone is lying here. Or perhaps both are. But at the very least one of them knows the actual truth of Corey Haim's alleged molestation. And while it's not impossible that Feldman is telling the truth and that Haim's mother is covering some stuff up, Haim's mother gave a reasonable and rational explanation for the side that thinks Feldman is a liar and cheat. She brought up his drug addiction, arrest and his band failing. And noting how he keeps saying he has names of pedos and promises to share them, but never actually doing it or going to the police with them (instead saying he needs $10 million and a documentary before he's willing to expose anyone). Feldman meanwhile was unable to rationally rebut her statements. He instead went on Twitter in a dedranged rage, calling her an evil woman etc etc. And he lied about being stabbed by someone last year, claiming the pedophiles ordered a hit to silence him (the hospital and police report found no signs of any wound on him).

The point is, if you're going to say that Michael Jackson's accusers should be considered unreliable and untrustworthy based on past behavior and comments (which again I don't think is an invalid opinion to have), then it's important to note the reasons why you should be similarly skeptical of anything Corey Feldman says too.

I’m not saying that Corey Feldman isn’t a little strange.. or hasn’t had issues... I’m just wondering what we should be skeptical of here in relation to this situation?

He has always maintained that Michael Jackson was never inappropriate with him.

He’s said for years that he was abused as a child, as was Corey Haim, who’s mother does say he was abused once. How many times or from whom, I don’t know .. but CF has been adamant that it wasn’t MJ.


Are you saying we should be skeptical of his “MJ didn’t touch me” claims?

 

[MerlinTheGoat]

I’m not saying that Corey Feldman isn’t a little strange.. or hasn’t had issues... I’m just wondering what we should be skeptical of here in relation to this situation?

He has always maintained that Michael Jackson was never inappropriate with him.

He’s said for years that he was abused as a child, as was Corey Haim, who’s mother does say he was abused once. How many times or from whom, I don’t know .. but CF has been adamant that it wasn’t MJ.


Are you saying we should be skeptical of his “MJ didn’t touch me” claims?

Eh, I wouldn't go so far to be that specific. I'm speaking in terms of Feldman's general reliability. I actually doubt his claimed experiences with MJ are false (even if MJ DID molest children, I doubt he did it to every single one of them anyway). Though that's just my opinion.

My problem with using Corey Feldman in ANY capacity to prove or disprove something is that there's a good chance he's just generally unreliable. And it may not even be intentional. Corey Haim's mother has called him a liar and con artist. This may or may not be true. But calling out his unwillingness to name names until he gets $10 million, it's a fair comment that he was unable to rationally rebut.

But his recent behavior during the "stabbing" incident last year (assuming he wasn't just intentionally lying again for attention) has led me to another possibility. He may be mentally ill. Even if he was born sane, long-term heroin use can cause permanent brain damage even for sane people. You can develop serious mental illnesses and even severely compromised memory.

As an incidental note to heroin and how it works on the mind (not related to MJ, but just a general aside to the sorts of pedo rings Feldman claims he knows about)- Heroin and other hard mind altering drugs are commonly claimed by alleged abuse victims to be used by organized pedophile rings on the children. It dulls or shuts off the kids' brains during the acts of molestation. But also has the extra effect of making the victims seem "unreliable" as witnesses in potential court cases later on. There was an unreleased (at the time) 1994 documentary about the alleged Franklin Credit Union sex abuse scandal during the late 80s and early 90s that discussed this. Difficult to prove things when the witnesses are or were on hard mind altering drugs for decades that can compromise mental health and reliability of memories as a whole. Similarly, Corey Feldman claims his first abuser got him addicted to heroin. I'm inclined to believe this is plausible (if not probable).

But regardless of whether Corey Feldman is telling the truth of his experiences or not, he is still only able to report his OWN experiences. He can't speak for anyone else but himself. Again it's possible that MJ didn't do anything bad to him, but that he treated other kids differently.

 

[BuddyThomas]

Michael Jackson: A Quarter-Century Of Sexual Abuse Allegations

Michael Jackson: A Quarter-Century Of Sexual Abuse Allegations

The documentary Leaving Neverland has revived allegations of sexual abuse against Michael Jackson. As early as 1993, young boys and their families were accusing the megastar.

www.npr.org

The two-part documentary Leaving Neverland, which began airing on HBO on Sunday night, tells the story of two men, Wade Robson and James Safechuck, who accuse Michael Jackson of having sexually abused them for years, beginning when they were respectively about seven and 10 years old.

Michael Jackson's estate continues to deny all allegations, as the entertainer did in his lifetime. His estate has sued HBO for distributing the Dan Reed-directed documentary, which debuted at the Sundance Film Festival in January; in its filings, the estate called Leaving Neverland a "posthumous character assassination."

It's no secret that, before and even after his death in 2009, Jackson was the subject of multiple sexual abuse accusations and police investigations as well as civil and criminal lawsuits. This timeline lays out key dates, known allegations and the main accusations the artist and his estate have faced, going back more than a quarter century.

December 1986: James Safechuck meets Michael Jackson on a Pepsi ad set

A 10-year-old California boy, James (Jimmy) Safechuck, is hired to appear in a Pepsi commercial alongside Michael Jackson. In Leaving Neverland, Safechuck says that Jackson befriended him and his family after the ad began airing, that the singer was immediately generous to him and allegedly began lavishing him with gifts — including, Safechuck says, his jacket from the "Thriller" video. Safechuck and his family also say that Jackson began flying them for visits and on vacations.

On one such trip to Hawaii, Safechuck alleges, Michael Jackson first asked the boy to sleep with him in his bed.

August 1993: Los Angeles police begin investigating Jackson
The Los Angeles Times reports that the LAPD has begun investigating Jackson based on allegations that he possibly molested four children, including a 13-year-old boy. (The boy is mentioned by name and in photos in Leaving Neverland.)

The police find no incriminating evidence at Jackson's Neverland ranch, nor at his Los Angeles condominium.

In a lengthy report published the following January, Vanity Fair — calling the boy "Jamie" — publishes the 13-year-old and his family's allegations. The boy's lawyer tells the magazine, "Michael was in love with the boy."

The family says that Jackson argued with Jamie's mother about sleeping in the same bed with him, saying, according to Vanity Fair, "Why don't you trust me? If we're a family, you've got to think of me as a brother. Why make me feel so bad? This is a bond. It's not about sex. This is something special." From that point onwards, the family claims, Jamie slept with Jackson nearly every night for the next several months.

September 1993: One family files suit against Jackson
In the filing, a family — whose child is ostensibly the 13-year-old boy referred to as "Jamie" by Vanity Fair — alleges that Jackson had "repeatedly committed sexual battery" on their son.

Jackson's team maintains that the suit is part of an attempt to extort the star for $20 million. More than a decade later, however, Court TV reveals in a 2004 report that Jackson settled the suit for even more than that. As part of the settlement, the singer denied any "wrongful acts."

In September 1994, prosecutors announce that they are not filing criminal charges against Jackson involving three boys — because the "primary alleged victim" declined to testify.

In the course of the investigation and ensuing civil case, Jackson and his team put various young boys on the witness stand and in front of cameras.

One is 10-year-old Wade Robson, an Australian boy who first met the megastar five years earlier, when he won a Michael Jackson dance contest in Brisbane. Within a few years, Robson had moved with his mother to Los Angeles with Jackson's encouragement.

In 1993, Robson's mother talked to CNN about her child's "slumber parties" with the singer.

"They play so hard, they fall asleep, they're exhausted," she tells the interviewer. "There's nothing more to it than that."

In Leaving Neverland, Robson says: "I was excited by the idea of being able to defend him. And being able to save him."

February 2003: Living with Michael Jackson documentary airs in the U.K. and U.S.
The documentary, reported by journalist Martin Bashir, includes footage of Jackson holding hands with and cradling a young teenager, then identified as a cancer survivor, and says that they share a bed. Both Jackson and the boy deny that anything untoward is going on. "My greatest inspiration comes from kids," Jackson says to Bashir indignantly, while holding onto the child. "It's all inspired from that level of innocence, that consciousness of purity."

After the documentary airs, Jackson issues a statement denying any wrongdoing, and says that he is "devastated" by Bashir's portrayal of him. Nevertheless, Living with Michael Jackson sparks a criminal investigation.

November 20, 2003: Police book Jackson on child molestation charges
Two days after raiding Neverland, Jackson's famous ranch in Santa Barbara County, Calif., the sheriff's office arrests Jackson on charges of child molestation, but does not immediately disclose details of the charges or identify the victim.

Jackson's lawyer, Mark Geragos, calls the charges "a big lie." After posting $3 million in bail the same day and surrendering his passport, Jackson is allowed to go free as he awaits trial.

Jackson is eventually indicted on 10 criminal counts, including child molestation, abduction, false imprisonment and extortion.

February 28, 2005: Jackson's criminal case goes to trial
After being charged in late 2003 and then given additional charges the following April, Jackson is put on trial. The victim is identified as Gavin Arvizo, the young man who appeared in the Bashir documentary; he is among those who testify at the trial.

Among those testifying in Jackson's defense are actor Macaulay Culkin, James Safechuck and Wade Robson. (By 2005, Robson is a noted choreographer and songwriter, who has created dance routines for the likes of Britney Spears and 'NSYNC, and who has already had his own show on MTV.)

They are described as "special friends" of Jackson who have slept with the singer in his bed. The men deny that Jackson has touched them or otherwise acted inappropriately. According to The Washington Post, Robson's mother, Joy, says of the singer: "Unless you know him, it's hard to understand him. ... He's not the boy next door."

Gavin Arvizo is now aged 14, and says on the stand that Jackson masturbated him; Gavin's brother corroborates his claim, and says that Jackson gave them alcohol and showed them ography. Gavin's mother, Janet Arvizo, also appears as a witness; the BBC describes her testimony as "combative and rambling." A former member of Jackson's household staff, Blanca Francia, testifies that she saw the singer taking a shower with Robson. Francia's son also alleges that Jackson has molested him.

Years later, both Robson and Safechuck say that they lied at the trial.

June 13, 2005: Jackson is acquitted of all criminal charges
After a trial that had a circus-like atmosphere and whose proceedings seemed to sometimes be upstaged by Jackson's antics (including showing up late in pajamas on one occasion), the singer is acquitted of all charges. At least some of the jurors seem to place the onus on the alleged victim's mother, Janet Arvizo. according to NPR. Allowing a child to sleep with any non-family member, one of the female jurors asks, according to NPR, "What mother in her right mind would allow that to happen?"

Within months, prosecutors charge Janet Arvizo with fraud and perjury related to statements made at the Jackson trial; she accepts a plea agreement the following year.

June 25, 2009: Michael Jackson dies, age 50
The singer is found unresponsive at his home in Holmby Hills, Calif. At the time of his death, his family releases a statement saying that it is believed that he died of cardiac arrest.

On Nov. 11, 2011, a doctor, Conrad Murray, is found guilty of involuntary manslaughter in Jackson's death for having administered a deadly dose of the anesthetic propofol.

During the trial, the New York Times reports that Murray, who had been hired as Jackson's personal physician, "had stayed with Jackson at least six nights a week and was regularly asked — and sometimes begged — by the insomniac singer to give him drugs powerful enough to put him to sleep."

2013-2014: Wade Robson and James Safechuck file suits against the Jackson estate and his companies
The Daily Beast reports in 2013 that after very publicly and repeatedly defending Jackson, Robson now says that Jackson sexually molested him for seven years.

Two years later, in May 2015, a judge in Los Angeles County Superior Court, Mitchell L. Beckloff, dismisses Robson's suit against the estate, saying that he waited too long to file his claim. In December 2017, the same judge dismisses the rest of Robson's suit, filed against Jackson's two companies, MJJ Productions and MJJ Ventures, because the two corporations could not be found liable for Jackson's alleged behavior. Notably, neither of these judgments address the credibility of Robson's accusations.

James Safechuck files a similar suit against MJJ Productions and MJJ Ventures in 2014, alleging that Jackson abused him on "hundreds" of occasions between 1988 and 1992. Beckloff, who is also the presiding judge in this suit, rejects Safechuck's suit in June 2017 on the same grounds he gave Robson.

March 3, 2019: Leaving Neverland begins airing on HBO
After debuting at Sundance in late January, the two-part, four-hour documentary begins airing. Jackson's estate has already filed suit against the network, claiming that damages could exceed $100 million. Its petition begins: "Michael Jackson is innocent. Period."

The estate also argues that HBO has violated a non-disparagement agreement that it made with the singer in order to air a concert special, Live in Bucharest: The Dangerous Tour, back in 1992. (That program was a megahit when it aired, scoring HBO its highest-rated special ever at that time.) In a bid for positive counter-programming, Jackson's estate releases the 1992 film on YouTube at the same time as Leaving Neverland's broadcast premiere.

"In producing this fictional work," the suit continues, "HBO ignored its contractual obligations to Michael and his companies by disparaging both him and the Dangerous World Tour that HBO had previously profited from immensely." The estate also calls Robson and Safechuck "two admitted perjurers," and accuses them of "practicing their stories and rehearsing their lines ... for years now."

In an interview on All Things Considered, filmmaker Dan Reed says that two different threads drew him to telling the two men's stories.

"It's the complexity that drew me into wanting to really tell the story," Reed says, "which is that in an abusive pedophile relationship there is both love, affection, mentoring, friendship, caring — and there is sexual abuse. Those two things coexist."

Additional reporting by NPR's Elizabeth Blair.

 

[LittleBuford]

I found it far more intense and disturbing that I had imagined. It's almost been hard to get it out of my head, to be honest, and it's all mixed up with the memories I have of MJ and his music. I even went to see him in concert when he came to Australia many years ago.

I just finished the second part. Really harrowing stuff, but also necessary viewing. I can't believe what the cult of celebrity allows us to overlook and just outright ignore.

I'm sorry to hear of the effect it's had on you. I'm "lucky" in that I was never a big fan and therefore have little attachment to (or nostalgic associations with) his music.