Disney Announces New Nature Resort on Bay Lake

[Sirwalterraleigh]

I'm not generally a defender of most board of directors, but the current Disney doesn't strike me as hyperbolically bad as you've described it. And it's certainly not as bad as it was in the '90s!

There are certainly some people like what you describe on the board - Sears, Potbelly (arguably), Blackberry, GM, etc. But it could be argued that Mary Barra has done a credible job at GM relative to other auto CEOs. I can't speak offhand about the rest. And on the other side, I wouldn't describe Estee Lauder, Nike, Oracle, and Illumina as failed companies.

But what do you think the board is pushing the company to do that has resulted in this resort proposal getting the green light? Or is this just another off-topic diversion?

Well...you made 2/3 of my point.

Alwyn Lewis is the world’s most well paid failure...some other notables

And as you admitted...trust no board

And how about the Carlyle Group?
...everything that is wrong with everything...like Bain Capital.

I think this entire board has pushed every move to drain the place. All money decisions.
And before we get back to basic Econ...you know pre-2010 there were blocks in place. That’s a lot of what set disney apart.

I’m not saying you can go back...but you can treat them like every other bad monolith. Little differences but emotional pull now.

 

[Lensman]

Well...you made 2/3 of my point.

Alwyn Lewis is the world’s most well paid failure...some other notables

And as you admitted...trust no board

And how about the Carlyle Group?
...everything that is wrong with everything...like Bain Capital.

I think this entire board has pushed every move to drain the place. All money decisions.
And before we get back to basic Econ...you know pre-2010 there were blocks in place. That’s a lot of what set disney apart.

I’m not saying you can go back...but you can treat them like every other bad monolith. Little differences but emotional pull now.

There's no question that Lewis has had a string of failures since he left YUM. His saving grace may be his expertise in the restaurant business, which might be why he also sits on the board of Starwood/Marriott and Red Robin. Still, as you suggest, we should remain leery and worried that his experience in restaurants could, in fact, be bad for Disney as he could be evil board member responsible for the simplification of the menus and Disney's restaurant supply chain.

The Carlyle Group could be the subject of a whole conspiracy theory book, but I'm not sure what they've been trying to do at Disney other than be the subject of some political conspiracy theories. It's not even clear why they're on the board since I'm unaware of their having acquired any kind of exceptional percentage ownership. But as you suggest, it's worth being wary of them.

That said, it's still not clear to me that there's that much of a case for board incompetence vs the board simply over-representing the interests of the shareholders, which even a competent but financial results oriented board will do. But I can see your point of view.

All in all, an interesting intellectual diversion. Thanks!

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

There's no question that Lewis has had a string of failures since he left YUM. His saving grace may be his expertise in the restaurant business, which might be why he also sits on the board of Starwood/Marriott and Red Robin. Still, as you suggest, we should remain leery and worried that his experience in restaurants could, in fact, be bad for Disney as he could be evil board member responsible for the simplification of the menus and Disney's restaurant supply chain.

The Carlyle Group could be the subject of a whole conspiracy theory book, but I'm not sure what they've been trying to do at Disney other than be the subject of some political conspiracy theories. It's not even clear why they're on the board since I'm unaware of their having acquired any kind of exceptional percentage ownership. But as you suggest, it's worth being wary of them.

That said, it's still not clear to me that there's that much of a case for board incompetence vs the board simply over-representing the interests of the shareholders, which even a competent but financial results oriented board will do. But I can see your point of view.

All in all, an interesting intellectual diversion. Thanks!

It’s just a standard American board...no conspiracies or subterfuge. Iger is and was a very low spark suit. Nothing has really changed.

But it’s what it is.

To end the diversion...I’ll leave you this:
What was the danger in late Eisner? Too much power? No line of succession? Missteps in parks and failure to evolve with tech in the tv market?

What has changed? And was Eisner ever CEO, Chairman, AND president for 10 years?

...with no honor guard to watch?

Adieu, mon ami...

 

[USofA scott]

There's no question that Lewis has had a string of failures since he left YUM. His saving grace may be his expertise in the restaurant business, which might be why he also sits on the board of Starwood/Marriott and Red Robin. Still, as you suggest, we should remain leery and worried that his experience in restaurants could, in fact, be bad for Disney as he could be evil board member responsible for the simplification of the menus and Disney's restaurant supply chain.

The Carlyle Group could be the subject of a whole conspiracy theory book, but I'm not sure what they've been trying to do at Disney other than be the subject of some political conspiracy theories. It's not even clear why they're on the board since I'm unaware of their having acquired any kind of exceptional percentage ownership. But as you suggest, it's worth being wary of them.

That said, it's still not clear to me that there's that much of a case for board incompetence vs the board simply over-representing the interests of the shareholders, which even a competent but financial results oriented board will do. But I can see your point of view.

All in all, an interesting intellectual diversion. Thanks!

no, i was pointing out that the whole board quality discussion is a strawman argument in defense of an opinion of what is wrong with the new resort. You have not put up a strawman.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

no, i was pointing out that the whole board quality discussion is a strawman argument in defense of an opinion of what is wrong with the new resort. You have not put up a strawman.

Nah...it’s just a tangent.

Everyone who bothers to look into it knows what the board is and why the decisions are made.

 

[Figments Friend]

“Themed to it’s natural surroundings”.

Concept art with modern looking towers.

Umm...

This.

Exactly what I was thinking.
More 'generic' monstrosities thinly disguised as a 'themed resort'.

Not impressed thus far.

-

 

[prberk]

This.

Exactly what I was thinking.
More 'generic' monstrosities thinly disguised as a 'themed resort'.

Not impressed thus far.

-

Agree.

Even if I tried to think of it as modern yet "nature-inspired" in the same way that Frank Lloyd Wright's modern architecture actually did complement the real nature around it, this modern monstrosity does not belong on the path in the middle of FW and the WL, both of which are themed to the American West, with the log cabin feel.

I decided this weekend that this announcement (along with the newest round of price increases) sadly has convinced me that any hope that Disney would understand what it has is now gone, at least in this management. Not only have they lost the awe-inspiring theme concept altogether, but they have also made it impossible for me to recommend a Disney vacation reasonably to families I know of average income. The financial bar is too high (and has been for a while... but just got shot even further out of reach), and the inspiration that used to justify it is also fading. Yes, I can still find it when I try, but the cost is way up there and it is increasingly obscured by the Marriott and inane pop culture thrown more and more in.

And outside of the resorts we saw this in the "Disneyland" 60th anniversary special on TV a little while back that barely referenced Disneyland and was more like a "Dancing With the Stars" pop-culture soiree than a Disneyland special. The same template is already being advertised for the upcoming "Mickey Mouse" 90th anniversary special that is advertised to have pop stars singing and dancing to Disney tunes that have nothing to do with Mickey Mouse. His history and cultural importance (which is amazingly on display in the current Life magazine special edition -- which of course is not produced by Disney) appears, like that of Disneyland on the "Disneyland" special, to be completely lost in the special.

Disney used to be the best at knowing what it had that made it special, and serving it up right. Now they seem to have lost that.

 

[drizgirl]

Agree.

Even if I tried to think of it as modern yet "nature-inspired" in the same way that Frank Lloyd Wright's modern architecture actually did complement the real nature around it, this modern monstrosity does not belong on the path in the middle of FW and the WL, both of which are themed to the American West, with the log cabin feel.

Not to worry. I bet Fort Wilderness isn't long for this world.

 

[peter11435]

Not to worry. I bet Fort Wilderness isn't long for this world.

I don’t know. Relatively little operating expenses there. Unless they desperately need the land I imagine they will leave it alone.

 

[jt04]

I don’t know. Relatively little operating expenses there. Unless they desperately need the land I imagine they will leave it alone.

Yes, I would guess it prints money. I'm only surprised they haven't built a second themed campground. There is still plenty of places for hotels/resorts. Especially with the trend towards towers.

 

[briangaw]

Am I the only one questioning the why and timing of this announcement? Seems like a random timing and even for Disney early announcements, especially in the area of resorts. Perhaps the start of dripping out future development announcements prior to Nov 8 4Q earnings call? Maybe important telling permits about to be filed? Would love to hear people's views on this, even @Sirwalterraleigh

And because of this oddly timed announcement, I just really want to know where in the design process this art is from. It seems just like an early concept drawing that was put together for this announcement that was purposely vague. From as far as I can tell by the recent @bioreconstruct aerials it doesn't look like the geotechnical borings have not been completed. I forget the dates on the permits we saw a bit back. Hard to imagine without the boring data this would be even a 30% design rendering. Here is to hoping this is purposely vague and that as we get more it gets better.

 

[doctornick]

My question is how are the guests getting to the hotel? Through Wilderness Lodge? Through the campground? A new road along the
canal? If the campground, it will ruin the atmosphere of the place. Not that Disney cares. It treats the campground as it's red-haired step-
child as it is.

How did people get to River Country (and the dock for Discovery Island)? I'd imagine it would be via the same route or something similar.

 

[Rteetz]

Am I the only one questioning the why and timing of this announcement? Seems like a random timing and even for Disney early announcements, especially in the area of resorts. Perhaps the start of dripping out future development announcements prior to Nov 8 4Q earnings call? Maybe important telling permits about to be filed? Would love to hear people's views on this, even @Sirwalterraleigh

And because of this oddly timed announcement, I just really want to know where in the design process this art is from. It seems just like an early concept drawing that was put together for this announcement that was purposely vague. From as far as I can tell by the recent @bioreconstruct aerials it doesn't look like the geotechnical borings have not been completed. I forget the dates on the permits we saw a bit back. Hard to imagine without the boring data this would be even a 30% design rendering. Here is to hoping this is purposely vague and that as we get more it gets better.

We did have permits already filed for work regarding this project. I am more surprised at the fact there was no Disney Parks Blog announcement but only a WDWnews press release.

 

[space42]

How did people get to River Country (and the dock for Discovery Island)? I'd imagine it would be via the same route or something similar.

Through Fort Wilderness...

They have to be building a new entrance for this right ? What about Pioneer Hall, ranch , and marina ?

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Am I the only one questioning the why and timing of this announcement? Seems like a random timing and even for Disney early announcements, especially in the area of resorts. Perhaps the start of dripping out future development announcements prior to Nov 8 4Q earnings call? Maybe important telling permits about to be filed? Would love to hear people's views on this, even @Sirwalterraleigh

And because of this oddly timed announcement, I just really want to know where in the design process this art is from. It seems just like an early concept drawing that was put together for this announcement that was purposely vague. From as far as I can tell by the recent @bioreconstruct aerials it doesn't look like the geotechnical borings have not been completed. I forget the dates on the permits we saw a bit back. Hard to imagine without the boring data this would be even a 30% design rendering. Here is to hoping this is purposely vague and that as we get more it gets better.

...well...since you asked...

I’m not really thinking about how forced this looks...or the preliminary bad design...or the continued trend to add DVC with no theming/imagination...

I’m thinking about the 900 rack rooms.
Why? Or to be more specific: how do you selll them?

As is pointed out often...the “deluxe” rooms are a hard sell and have been for at least 10 years...so why build more? The existing rooms have been steeply discounted through travel agents...like 50%. That’s not a fluke. Wilderness lodge was Half gutted for DVC in large part because they could no longer sell the rooms at $350 a night...

So why build more?

My theory is they’re changing the price...that could be why this thing looks so bland. I think the experiment is going on right now at Caribbean...

Build DVC and make the attached moderate “sub-deluxe” in the $300s.

Just a theory.

As far as announcement timing goes - they have to continue to announce new DVC...have to. Iger makes promises and then figures out how to cover up for them. No more apparent than with DVC.

 

[Naplesgolfer]

...well...since you asked...

I’m not really thinking about how forced this looks...or the preliminary bad design...or the continued trend to add DVC with no theming/imagination...

I’m thinking about the 900 rack rooms.
Why? Or to be more specific: how do you selll them?

As is pointed out often...the “deluxe” rooms are a hard sell and have been for at least 10 years...so why build more? The existing rooms have been steeply discounted through travel agents...like 50%. That’s not a fluke. Wilderness lodge was Half gutted for DVC in large part because they could no longer sell the rooms at $350 a night...

So why build more?

My theory is they’re changing the price...that could be why this thing looks so bland. I think the experiment is going on right now at Caribbean...

Build DVC and make the attached moderate “sub-deluxe” in the $300s.

Just a theory.

As far as announcement timing goes - they have to continue to announce new DVC...have to. Iger makes promises and then figures out how to cover up for them. No more apparent than with DVC.

I would think these rooms would have to sell at a rack rate of 400 and up to make the math work when selling the DVC contracts. DVC will be at or over $200 a point when this resort comes on line.

 

[peter11435]

I would think these rooms would have to sell at a rack rate of 400 and up to make the math work when selling the DVC contracts. DVC will be at or over $200 a point when this resort comes on line.

The math wouldn’t tenchinally need to work that way since they are not the same rooms. Rack rate for the hotels rooms could be lower than Rack rate for the DVC rooms. Just as it is for many deluxe properties and their DVC studio counterparts.

 

[raymusiccity]

Let's just remember the good times of River Country....

I'm just hoping that they include a decent pool/recreation area that will honor the spirit of River Country. (Much like this earlier, and superior, plan did!)

 

[Naplesgolfer]

The math wouldn’t tenchinally need to work that way since they are not the same rooms. Rack rate for the hotels rooms could be lower than Rack rate for the DVC rooms. Just as it is for many deluxe properties and their DVC studio counterparts.

I mostly agree. But the studio point cost vs the rate rate of a standard room in the hotel is most likely what your average DVC prospect is going to use to extrapolate cost comparisons.

 

[peter11435]

I mostly agree. But the studio point cost vs the rate rate of a standard room in the hotel is most likely what your average DVC prospect is going to use to extrapolate cost comparisons.

Potentially. But as I pointed out, most studios already rack for a good bit higher than a standard room. No reason that won’t continue here.

We also don’t know what types accommodations will be available at this property or how many of each.