A Spirited 15 Rounds ...

[brb1006]

First Pixar employee speaks on the record using her name.
https://variety.com/2018/film/news/pixar-boys-club-john-lasseter-cassandra-smolcic-1202858982/

Full essay
https://medium.com/@cassandraanns/pixars-sexist-boys-club-9d621567fdc9

 

[Bairstow]

why not just put the launch in the rollback area and avoid the cost/headaches?
... unless your vision is of coming to rest in a vertical position and launching from there.

Well yeah, so you can do the whole blastoff countdown thing while the riders are on their backs.

Horizontal launches are still fun but they're certainly not novel these days.

 

[smile]

Well yeah, so you can do the whole blastoff countdown thing while the riders are on their backs.

Horizontal launches are still fun but they're certainly not novel these days.

funny enough, that's almost exactly how eddie sotto pitched m:s to marty sklar; contorting himself to show guests on their backs, then launching

 

[truecoat]

I have seen that...and I think its a mistake, following the prior error of slapping Solo's release in the middle of a whole bunch of other much-anticipated films. With the overlap fandom between SW and Marvel, they were foolish to think Solo would do well released so closely to Infinity Wars. Disney needs to think about its film fans way more - we had Infinity Wars, Deadpool 2, Solo, and Incredibles 2 all released in a clump. I personally don't know anyone who wants to go to the movies that often, and of the 4 films, Solo would fall to the bottom of my list simply because of the anticipation of Infinity and Deadpool and that my kids want to see Incredibles. As a stand-alone, it was too easy to back-burner Solo due to its timing.

Now, had Solo been released at the end of August (when there isn't SW/Marvel/Disney flick saturation), I think they would have seen much better returns. They need to learn how not to compete against themselves when timing releases.

It had more to do with marketing and replacing a character like Han Solo with someone who wasn't....Han Solo. Shorter Solo maybe which doesn't make much sense.

 

[truecoat]

Spirited Shorts:

Very amused by all the fans trying to contort themselves into pretzels that Toy Story Kiddie Land is a substantive addition to The Corpse of The Disney-MGM Studios. I eagerly await the breathless bloggers who just must be the first to try every food item and take pics of planters and trash cans.

What else can you do with $200 million?

 

[the.dreamfinder]

First Pixar employee speaks on the record using her name.
https://variety.com/2018/film/news/pixar-boys-club-john-lasseter-cassandra-smolcic-1202858982/

Full essay
https://medium.com/@cassandraanns/pixars-sexist-boys-club-9d621567fdc9

Did you copy my post from the Lasseter thread?

 

[yensidtlaw1969]

What else can you do with $200 million?

Build two Expeditions: Everests, or attractions of a similar caliber

 

[the.dreamfinder]

Build two Expeditions: Everests, or attractions of a similar caliber

With WDInflation, probably TSL is the best they could do with $200 Million.

 

[lazyboy97o]

With WDInflation, probably TSL is the best they could do with $200 Million.

They couldn’t even do Toy Story Land for $200 million!

 

[MerlinTheGoat]

First Pixar employee speaks on the record using her name.
https://variety.com/2018/film/news/pixar-boys-club-john-lasseter-cassandra-smolcic-1202858982/

Full essay
https://medium.com/@cassandraanns/pixars-sexist-boys-club-9d621567fdc9

I've been extremely critical towards Lasseter and the inappropriate physical behavior he was accused of. I was and still am in support of him being removed from the company, the details in these articles are good reasons to dismiss anyone.

Though I also thought the allegations would be more physical in nature. Making constant disrespectful, sexist or lewd comments towards the female staff and cultivating that atmosphere in a workplace is a valid reason for termination as well of course. But wasn't there more physical aspects to this such as allegations Lasseter forcibly french kissed unwilling women and tried to hike his hands up their skirts?

It also sounds like a lot of these allegations are directed at other unnamed men that are supposedly still with the company. Lasseter contributed to making this behavior more mainstream and publicly tolerated, but getting rid of him shouldn't be enough to eradicate the problem if the allegations against these unnamed others are true. The behavior will just continue to go on, just perhaps behind a closed door instead of an open one. And it sounds like the author of the Medium article says as much.

Bit of a rant ahead, so fair warning.

The only thing I will call out is the Bechdel Test mention (in Medium's caption for the Up art). Sorry but I hate this "test" and think it's stupidly limited and narrow minded. For those unfamiliar, the Bechdel Test is an often cited "how feminist is your movie" gauge. It says at least two women in a work of fiction must talk to each other about something other than a man. Some variation of the test have a minimum requirement for conversation length and other additional variables.

In recent years i've noticed more people using the Bechdel Test as a sweeping determination for whether a movie is inherently good or bad. They will often put all other concerns aide such as story, writing, acting, creativity, whether it's entertaining or thought provoking etc. Essentially ignoring everything I think most rational people are primarily concerned with when deciding a movie's quality. Instead, some people seem to only care about a movie passing the test, and will become upset or even angry if it doesn't.

Lots of movies don't necessarily pass the parameters of that test, but are very empowering for women. There are also movies that DO pass the Bechdel Test, but are called out for containing sexist and demeaning attitudes towards women (like 50 Shades of Grey).

Anyways, rant over, sorry. It was unrelated to the more serious topic of sexual harassment and the bad behavior from Pixar employees, so feel free to disregard it.

 

[MadamMansion]

The only thing I will call out is the Bechdel Test mention (in Medium's caption for the Up art). Sorry but I hate this "test" and think it's stupidly limited and narrow minded. For those unfamiliar, the Bechdel Test is an often cited "how feminist is your movie" gauge. It says at least two women in a work of fiction must talk to each other about something other than a man. Some variation of the test have a minimum requirement for conversation length and other additional variables.

In recent years i've noticed more people using the Bechdel Test as a sweeping determination for whether a movie is inherently good or bad. They will often put all other concerns aide such as story, writing, acting, creativity, whether it's entertaining or thought provoking etc. Essentially ignoring everything I think most rational people are primarily concerned with when deciding a movie's quality. Instead, some people seem to only care about a movie passing the test, and will become upset or even angry if it doesn't.

Lots of movies don't necessarily pass the parameters of that test, but are very empowering for women. There are also movies that DO pass the Bechdel Test, but are called out for containing sexist and demeaning attitudes towards women (like 50 Shades of Grey).

I've been thinking a lot about the Bechdel Test recently, and absolutely echo your concerns about using it "as a sweeping determination for whether a movie is inherently good or bad." I don't believe this was the intention of the test, and I am with you in frustration that it has been distorted in this way. There are powerful stories to be told that don't involve women, and likewise that don't involve men. And, as you note, passing the test is not necessarily related to how empowering or demeaning a movie is to women.

However, I do think the Bechdel Test is useful as a (very approximate) gauge for which voices are being heard in any given story, and in the balance of stories told overall. It is really disappointing to me, as a woman, when the most interesting and three-dimensional characters in a story are all men while the women merely talk about what the men are doing. Bechdel-testing one movie doesn't tell us much, but if we look at the percentage of movies that fail Bechdel in a given time period, it can be one indicator of how the studios are doing at portraying complex female characters.

What I think is really interesting is when I think about an opposite Bechdel Test (maybe one exists? if so, please enlighten me!). How many works of fiction exist that DON'T have two men speaking to each other about something other than a woman? I don't have an evidence-based answer to that question, but by anecdotally pondering, I'm having trouble identifying a single one (ignoring any all-female casts, as I would give the same pass to an all-male cast and the Bechdel Test).

As a society, I do think the male voice is still the default. And Bechdel is one small piece (however imperfect and incomplete) of understanding our reality and moving towards a more inclusive future.

@MerlinTheGoat I find your commentary nuanced and thoughtful, and I think we agree on many things. I've been a long time lurker on these forums, and yours is one of the voices I have come to value over the years. Just wanted to add my two cents to a topic that I have been personally pondering lately.

 

[MisterPenguin]

Wait, does this thread pass the Bechdel Test?

 

[Bocabear]

They couldn’t even do Toy Story Land for $200 million!

When I heard 120 million for Frozen Ever After ride I could not believe it... 200 million for a rollercoaster, a spinner ride and a whole lot of fiberglass crap seems ridiculous...but the norm for Disney these days. Space Mountain was (when it was built)m the most expensive attraction ever built at 18 million... 200 million for a coaster and a spinner....yikes.

 

[Jones14]

When I heard 120 million for Frozen Ever After ride I could not believe it... 200 million for a rollercoaster, a spinner ride and a whole lot of fiberglass crap seems ridiculous...but the norm for Disney these days. Space Mountain was (when it was built)m the most expensive attraction ever built at 18 million... 200 million for a coaster and a spinner....yikes.

I thought the whole Frozen makeover (ride, meet n greet, exhibit) only cost $75 million. Still nothing to sniff at, but certainly a far more efficient use of funds than a lot of recent Disney projects.

 

[Rodan75]

Wait, does this thread pass the Bechdel Test?

Not even a little...lol. We are always talking about dudes...like Walt Disney, and Bob Iger and Bob Chapek.

 

[Rodan75]

I've been thinking a lot about the Bechdel Test recently, and absolutely echo your concerns about using it "as a sweeping determination for whether a movie is inherently good or bad." I don't believe this was the intention of the test, and I am with you in frustration that it has been distorted in this way. There are powerful stories to be told that don't involve women, and likewise that don't involve men. And, as you note, passing the test is not necessarily related to how empowering or demeaning a movie is to women.

However, I do think the Bechdel Test is useful as a (very approximate) gauge for which voices are being heard in any given story, and in the balance of stories told overall. It is really disappointing to me, as a woman, when the most interesting and three-dimensional characters in a story are all men while the women merely talk about what the men are doing. Bechdel-testing one movie doesn't tell us much, but if we look at the percentage of movies that fail Bechdel in a given time period, it can be one indicator of how the studios are doing at portraying complex female characters.

What I think is really interesting is when I think about an opposite Bechdel Test (maybe one exists? if so, please enlighten me!). How many works of fiction exist that DON'T have two men speaking to each other about something other than a woman? I don't have an evidence-based answer to that question, but by anecdotally pondering, I'm having trouble identifying a single one (ignoring any all-female casts, as I would give the same pass to an all-male cast and the Bechdel Test).

As a society, I do think the male voice is still the default. And Bechdel is one small piece (however imperfect and incomplete) of understanding our reality and moving towards a more inclusive future.

@MerlinTheGoat I find your commentary nuanced and thoughtful, and I think we agree on many things. I've been a long time lurker on these forums, and yours is one of the voices I have come to value over the years. Just wanted to add my two cents to a topic that I have been personally pondering lately.

Like you describe above, the Bechdel Test, really just provides a quick template for studios to follow to 'Pass' but doesn't actually create more and better depictions of women. It is the same thing with the GLAAD report that comes out every year, Studios try and Pass by having incidental background Gay and Lesbian characters.... And hopefully this doesn't trigger a toxic fandom debate. =-(

 

[Absimilliard]

Question for all you coaster nerds out there-
Are there any coasters in the world with a purely vertical launch?

The closest thing to what you describe is this: https://rcdb.com/3534.htm

It has an horizontal launch and then motors on the vertical part to give it a second boost.

Two problems with a purely vertical launch is this: how do you engage the train in the vertical portion? How do you get enough force to battle inertia and get the car or train moving? Space Mountain at DLP solves the first issue by dropping the train into the cannon and then pneumatic brakes hold it in place while the pusher car attach itself to car 4 while its already at an angle.

The second problem still has not been solved sadly as all inclined launches are at a maximum of 30-40 degrees and inertia is not so bad of an issue.

 

[Rodan75]

I thought the whole Frozen makeover (ride, meet n greet, exhibit) only cost $75 million. Still nothing to sniff at, but certainly a far more efficient use of funds than a lot of recent Disney projects.

Even at that, which I swear insiders said became almost double that amount, I would love to see the ROI on the change. Did it draw guests to Epcot, did it improve F&B sales? Merch Sales?

 

[Bairstow]

The closest thing to what you describe is this: https://rcdb.com/3534.htm

It has an horizontal launch and then motors on the vertical part to give it a second boost.

Two problems with a purely vertical launch is this: how do you engage the train in the vertical portion? How do you get enough force to battle inertia and get the car or train moving? Space Mountain at DLP solves the first issue by dropping the train into the cannon and then pneumatic brakes hold it in place while the pusher car attach itself to car 4 while its already at an angle.

The second problem still has not been solved sadly as all inclined launches are at a maximum of 30-40 degrees and inertia is not so bad of an issue.

If we're going for simplicity, I was imagining a reworking of a Schwarzkopf-style weight drop shuttle launch system, with the car held in place via brakes until the dog attaches.

 

[the.dreamfinder]

I've been extremely critical towards Lasseter and the inappropriate physical behavior he was accused of. I was and still am in support of him being removed from the company, the details in these articles are good reasons to dismiss anyone.

Though I also thought the allegations would be more physical in nature. Making constant disrespectful, sexist or lewd comments towards the female staff and cultivating that atmosphere in a workplace is a valid reason for termination as well of course. But wasn't there more physical aspects to this such as allegations Lasseter forcibly french kissed unwilling women and tried to hike his hands up their skirts?

It also sounds like a lot of these allegations are directed at other unnamed men that are supposedly still with the company. Lasseter contributed to making this behavior more mainstream and publicly tolerated, but getting rid of him shouldn't be enough to eradicate the problem if the allegations against these unnamed others are true. The behavior will just continue to go on, just perhaps behind a closed door instead of an open one. And it sounds like the author of the Medium article says as much.

Bit of a rant ahead, so fair warning.

The only thing I will call out is mentioning the Bechdel Test (in the Up concept art caption). Sorry, but I hate this "test" and think it's limiting and stupidly narrow minded. For those who don't know, the Bechdel Test states "at least two women in a work of fiction must talk to each other about something other than a man". There are variations, some with stricter rules like a requirement of conversation length and other random variables. In recent years though i've noticed people using this test to determine whether a movie is inherently good or bad. Disregarding whether it's well written, acted, creative, enlightening, entertaining and any other thing that could actually determine its quality. There are TONS of movies that don't necessarily pass the test, but are very empowering for women. It's also possible for a movie to pass the Bechdel Test, but be called out for sexist and demeaning attitudes towards women (like 50 Shades of Grey). Sorry for the rant.

Disney should be worried about a civil rights lawsuit and unionization of Pixar. The paternalism, managment’s argument against unionization, has clearly failed.