A Terror-rific Spirited 13th (ToT fans have lots to fear)...

[WDW1974]

Didn't @FigmentForver96 just teach you two pages ago what it actually was? Now you are throwing it back at @marni1971 and everyone else? Ignorance to the authority in half a day.

Florida's is the best version of the ride, Tokyo's a close second. Both are fantastic because they were actually designed for the space they occupy and not shoehorned after the fact.

True, but DCA's has really become perfect with the redo. ... And Paris ... well, it still is a great attraction, even if the park is an uncohesive mess.

 

[WDW1974]

With cuts? Or closer to the Captain America hybrid? Or something altogether different?

I choose to believe your version of the truth because I like it a whole lot better, sorry Spirit. Ignorance is bliss after all, as clearly demonstrated.

I hate them both. Hate them. Totally misplaced IP and destroying attractions to shoehorn. Is ToT better than Energy? Sure. But Energy is still a timeless concept and you have the kewl dinos that could be reworked. But Disney is going to kill that attraction soon. The question remains for what. And I am not at all convinced it is for a two-minute GotG coaster. But we will see ... eventually!

 

[WDW1974]

@WDW1974 not trying to cause issues, but is there a reason you are so sure that @marni1971 is wrong? He's on record as saying his sources (which have been good) are saying GotG is greenlit for UoE. You're on record as saying from your sources (which are also good) that it's coming to ToT. Is there anyway that they're doing both? I just don't know how the conflicting information is so stark in contrast to one another.

No issues. Martin and I know each other. We respect each other. He is a friend. ... I think I answered this in another post tonight. I do not think both of these projects are happening. Do I think they may both be in development with only one getting the OK? Yes, I absolutely believe that is the case right now.

 

[lazyboy97o]

...refurb in an existing building.

No stand alone structure housing a ride today is gonna be under $200M, at least in Disney Dollars. Particularly if it's unique/non-clone.

That's just being wasteful, no matter how much you refuse to believe it. $100 million is more than sufficient and a huge, huge reason for the Tower project is that those in charge have no understanding of the business and no way of knowing how to reduce costs.

 

[WDW1974]

@WDW1974 Thank you for your invaluable information and insight. It means a lot for theme park enthusiasts like myself to hear about these things - especially really bad ones like this - in advance rather than to be surprised by them just before they happen.

Do you have an idea about the current timeline, specifically in terms of the time before construction scrims go up? What is the latest we can see ToT in its full state? Through the end of 2017, or will scrims go up in mid/late-2017? Basically, until when can we "pay our last respects"? I think this is something a lot of us would deeply appreciate knowing.

I believe ToT and UoE will both operate as is for most or all of 2017. I think a decision on what will happen to them will be decided next year. I don't see anything happening on either project until 2018. Disney is working on the much delayed Pandora as well as the demolition of most of what was The Disney-MGM Studios and building Toy Story Land and the Star Wars Experience. ... I just don't believe that today's Disney can work another major project until something wraps up.

 

[WDW1974]

I remember you being the first to share all of this information. At the time it was difficult to grasp Amity leaving, but its demise was part of a bigger picture and business strategy to link the two parks like never before.

Regarding Disney entertaining the notion of selling off P&R.. If a sale had been successful, do you think WDW would be on the same path? Is the Star Wars expansion and investment in other areas the response to the deal not happening?

No way of knowing so utter speculation. It also would have depended on whether it was a total sale or simply an equity investor. I do think under different ownership, WDW would not be on the path that it is. Absolutely not.

 

[TaylorHound]

From what I heard from people I know who are ToT bellhops there has been no WDI presents in the Tower of Terror building. Is there a reason this might be? Is it because the project is so new?

 

[mickEblu]

Sorry, I did somehow miss them the first time. Not on purpose!

I am fairly certain the $1.5 billion was about projects not already approved and funded and the SWE most definitely was happening no matter what. So, no, I don't believe it is included in that figure at all.

There are other projects on the table for Anaheim, but the priorities are Star Wars, Marvel and Frozen. And that will take a good few years. But, yes, the Marvel area at DCA will have other attractions, but I don't believe anything major beyond the Tower and coaster.

As to Toontown, part of it is going. I don't believe the rest of it is long for the world. The real estate is underutilized to use TDA's own internal wording and it is too valuable with the Star Wars project eating up almost all of DL's existing expansion space.

Thanks for the response . In the past, I was all for a Toontown demo for an FL expansion. However, now that I have seen some of the decisions TDA has been making (cough cough GOTG overlay) , I would rather them keep Toontown and just plus it. A frozen E ticket is just fine (especially since you confirmed it's the Tokyo version) , but I don't think DL needs a Frozen mini land. What separates a Frozen mini land from the current European village theme anyway? Snow?

As far as the 1.5 billion, It does make sense that SWE (Please please please tell me Star Wars Experience is not the name they re going with and it's just a placeholder) would not be included. There would be no reason for Anaheim to consider the SWE $$ as part of the deal if Disney was already planning on doing it anyway. But it makes me wonder, couldn't Disney have hid the SWE plans until after the deal with Anaheim? Or maybe with as much money as DLR is generating, they were planning on spending the 1.5 billion anyway? Regardless of the tax deal.

Should we be excited for the Captain Coaster?

 

[BrianLo]

I hate them both. Hate them. Totally misplaced IP and destroying attractions to shoehorn. Is ToT better than Energy? Sure. But Energy is still a timeless concept and you have the kewl dinos that could be reworked. But Disney is going to kill that attraction soon. The question remains for what. And I am not at all convinced it is for a two-minute GotG coaster. But we will see ... eventually!

Yes mostly because the coaster concept actually sounds like it could be an impressive attraction. GoTG tower is lateral in the absolute best case scenario.

I don't understand why TDO is so adverse to just building something new, without replacement. They operate like increasing capacity would kill them.

It's like someone took Eisner's market research too literally and thought that since guests are satisfied with 8-10 rides in a visit, there really is no need to actually have more than 9 physical rides - total! One to seasonally close down for refurbs and 8 for guest's pure satisfaction.

 

[WDW1974]

I think you may be confusing him with the disgraced former CEO, Eisner. In fact, entire books have been written about it.

Not going to argue about the "disgraced" part. No one in LA, in the biz would ever consider MDE disgraced, but you can use whatever language you choose.

But I do find it interesting that MDE is at WDW as we speak enjoying a place that he helped develop into what it is today (both good and bad, I grant you). He's there because he wants to. Because he still is passionate about the place. Very unlike Iger who only visits WDW when he has to. And I will bet you $100 right now, that he never visits after he leaves unless he is there for some press reason. Like in five years when they open the SWE if the next CEO invites him (unlike he did with Eisner in Shanghai!)

 

[lazyboy97o]

From what I heard from people I know who are ToT bellhops there has been no WDI presents in the Tower of Terror. Is there a reason this might be? Is it because the project is so new?

There is no need for there to be some big presence. As reported this is not a project set to happen immediately.

It's like someone took Eisner's market research too literally and thought that since guests are satisfied with 8-10 rides in a visit, there really is no need to actually have more than 9 physical rides - total! One to seasonally close down for refurbs and 8 for guest's pure satisfaction.

That's exactly it, and the metric is attractions or experiences which means stuff like parades and meet and greets also count towards the magic number.

 

[mickEblu]

Oh, and for my friends on the left coast, I absolutely feel your pain about losing Tower.

And the analogy about it being the 'worst' version in most folks minds is only acceptable if WDW fans say it is OK to remove or overlay Pirates because it also is widely viewed as the weakest version in existence.

Thank you. I despise that argument.

 

[csmat99]

Is it really fair to lump in Shanghai's PotC with the classic versions? They're completely different rides as far as I'm concerned. Also, while I agree with you that there have been major declines in and around the WDW version for many years, I must say that the ride itself has been looking great again after its refurb last year.

I couldn't disagree with you more. Two parts. The pirates in WDW now is nothing like the pirates when it opened. All the changes they have made (not counting fresh coat of paint) have made the ride worse not better. Secondly the version in WDW is the worst one of them all and it's not even close. I have road them all except the new one in China and they are amazing and you can ride them again and again. The one in WDW I will ride once because I feel I have to. I really wish they rebuilt it from the ground up but they won't. Better chance they rebrand it rescuers down under.

 

[AEfx]

Not going to argue about the "disgraced" part. No one in LA, in the biz would ever consider MDE disgraced, but you can use whatever language you choose.

But I do find it interesting that MDE is at WDW as we speak enjoying a place that he helped develop into what it is today (both good and bad, I grant you). He's there because he wants to. Because he still is passionate about the place. Very unlike Iger who only visits WDW when he has to. And I will bet you $100 right now, that he never visits after he leaves unless he is there for some press reason. Like in five years when they open the SWE if the next CEO invites him (unlike he did with Eisner in Shanghai!)

To be ousted after being given the largest no confidence vote in the history of corporate America really speaks for itself. There is no argument to be had on that one.

It's great he has time to visit WDW. Not so surprising given that he has done virtually nothing in the business world since.

 

[AEfx]

That's just being wasteful, no matter how much you refuse to believe it. $100 million is more than sufficient and a huge, huge reason for the Tower project is that those in charge have no understanding of the business and no way of knowing how to reduce costs.

I don't doubt that it's wasteful. WDI is known to be a money sink where everything costs twice as much and takes twice as long as anywhere else.

 

[marni1971]

Now, I have to ask, are you stating Joe is about to lose his job? Or planning retirement soon?
...

No no, nothing like that. He may just have other projects to pursue. Within WDI.

 

[marni1971]

But if it has to come to WDW, then I want it at whatever Bob Iger's IP MAGIC Park gets rebranded as. And ONLY as a new build..

This.

 

[Nmoody1]

not WDW related, but Shanghai have intoruced a seasonal pass for winter... Probably to get the park through the cold months... This would be the time to ride Roaring Rapids and not wait 90 minutes for a disappointing encounter with a lot of fog inside the mountain! It should be an interesting winter in Pudong... Maybe Pirates will finally operate for an entire day, who knows?

To link this to WDW, it's not just Disney Springs tenants who have been oversold a promise. DisneyTown continues to struggle to pull anyone in. The recent Halloween events held at the Lakeshore (where you will NEVER see a Boathouse Amphicar) still failed to generate sales for stores. Even with discounts for lunch if you have a day ticket to the park, I can't help but feel DisneyTown could have been smaller and the park given an extra land. That said, I still think DisneyTown is one of the best themed areas of the resort, much like Disney Springs is one of the most beautiful areas of Walt Disney Wolrd these days... Shame that doesn't turn into cash!

 

[Brer Oswald]

$100 million is more than enough money for a dark ride.

Yet they still skipped the climax.

 

[ToTBellHop]

Yet they still skipped the climax.

Now we know why J. K. Rowling didn't want to get in bed with Disney.

 

[Brer Oswald]

https://mobile.twitter.com/CarouselOf/status/792141919723876353

This guy is saying that Guardians is coming to Rock n Rollercoaster. I'm pretty new here, so I don't know how reliable he is, but I've seen him cited in a couple threads lately aand he seemed to be treated like another reliable source. Could this guy just be misinformed or guessing? Could Disney be in panic mode over the INCREDIBLY negative reaction to the WDW tower retheme rumors and this is their new cheap option for Guardians. I could see them reworking the entrance to Rock n Rollercoaster and turning what's left Animation Courtyard in Marvel Land. I mean, the launch bay will probably close when Star wars land opens. The little mermaid show is dated and kind of redundant now that there's a ride. And pplayouse disney can be easily moved somewhere else if need be. This would even allow space for marvel to expand to One man's dream and the old Narnia building iif need be.

I follow him on Twitter. He sends a lot of insider pictures so he seems pretty credible.