Frozen complainers are finally making headlines.

[englanddg]

1: what do you mean by adjusted? 2: How is domestic gross any more relevant than international?

Adjusted to inflation.

And, because it's quite difficult to adjust for inflation across all international markets. So, if you're trying to make a historical comparison as to how well a movie did, comparing modern economies and distribution (which have ballooned in many foreign markets) is not accurate.

Better to look at the more stable domestic distribution that hasn't blossomed into a massive new market (like Asia has, for example).

That way you are comparing apples to apples.

 

[Lee]

All I said was that Epcot needs some upgrades, and bringing in the Disney Princesses is not a bad idea.

Correct. It is a horrible idea. Abysmal.

 

[xstech25]

I just ran the #s to see if that was accurate and it is but the flaw in your theory is once again the international component, when that is factored in Frozen crushed Snow White. The world has changed and the international #s now tell the real story.

There are a lot of armchair quarterbacks in this topic: the point being this ride is going to be a huge draw for Epcot regardless of whether you want it there or not. Even just having the meet & greet there for the brief time it was pulled a lot of families to Epcot when they otherwise would not have gone. Money talks.

 

[englanddg]

I just ran the #s to see if that was accurate and it is but the flaw in your theory is once again the international component, when that is factored in Frozen crushed Snow White. The world has changed and the international #s now tell the real story.

There are a lot of armchair quarterbacks in this topic: the point being this ride is going to be a huge draw for Epcot regardless of whether you want it there or not. Even just having the meet & greet there for the brief time it was pulled a lot of families to Epcot when they otherwise would not have gone. Money talks.

That's my point. You can't include the international market that DID NOT EXIST when the other movies were released.

You can, however, get a reasonable idea of a films success when comparing it against a rather stable situation, hence adjusted domestic gross.

When you start tossing in additional markets as valid factors (not saying it didn't blow out the international market, no one can say that), you are including factors in your assessment that skew the final judgement.

It's like owning a chain of restaurants, then opening five more, and assuming that you have a positive sales trend. This is why you split core (generally over 12 months) stores from new stores, so you don't come to a faulty conclusion.

So, whether you choose to accept them or not, the Domestic Adjusted Gross, is the number to look at.

And, in that respect, Snow White is #10 in all time domestic gross...and Frozen is somewhere in the high 90s.

 

[Tigger1988]

Again, how many of those adjusted numbers are for the ORIGINAL run?

You simply cannot compare a film from the 1930s with decades of rereleases to a film that came out less than a year ago. That's not apples to apples...

How much (adjusted for inflation) did Snow White make in its first theatrical run?

 

[OneAdam12]

The princesses may not be the best answer but what else can they do with the pavilion. It was a short, stale attraction. They are willing to put some money into it with their hot franchise at the moment. I dont have a problem with it. Im in The World right now and JII and UoE are in dire straits. Sadly the old Epcot of my youth is dead. Any help these attractions can get, i welcome.

 

[xstech25]

Great...so the market didn't exist back then, so what? It does now. It doesn't mean Frozen isn't the highest grossing animated movie of all time


Once again everything your saying is true, but it doesn't matter because the world has become much less fragmented.

 

[Mike S]

The princesses may not be the best answer but what else can they do with the pavilion. It was a short, stale attraction. They are willing to put some money into it with their hot franchise at the moment. I dont have a problem with it. Im in The World right now and JII and UoE are in dire straits. Sadly the old Epcot of my youth is dead. Any help these attractions can get, i welcome.

Perfect fit wouldn't you say?

 

[englanddg]

Again, how many of those adjusted numbers are for the ORIGINAL run?

You simply cannot compare a film from the 1930s with decades of rereleases to a film that came out less than a year ago. That's not apples to apples...

How much (adjusted for inflation) did Snow White make in its first theatrical run?

Stripping those out would take some time, and I'm not going to do it for dollar amounts. But, I hear and grant your point, and it does skew those numbers, less so than inflated international markets, but yes, re-releases are an issue, especially for the pre-80s ones.

So, lets look at the list without those, shall we? I'll strip out ones (and if I miss one, feel free to chime in) that have had re-releases to theaters.

Frozen made 401 mil

Adjusted
Monsters Inc made 402 mil
Aladdin made 426 mil
Toy Story 3 made 427 mil
Pinnochio made 437 mil
Cinderella made 440 mil
Peter Pan made 456 mil
Jungle Book made 470 mil
Bambi made 474 mil
Lady and the Tramp made 482 mil
Finding Nemo made 500 mil
101 Dalmations made 502 mil
NOT DISNEY - Shrek 2 made 577 mil
Lion King made 742 mil
Snow White made 965 mil

Still doesn't put Frozen on top...but it does put it in the top 10 (but not top 5).

There's apples to apples.

 

[Tigger1988]

Monsters Inc had 3D rerelease in 2012.

 

[englanddg]

Monsters Inc had 3D rerelease in 2012.

Good catch. I don't think I heard about that one. Okey doke. So, it makes Frozen #5.

Did I miss another one?

 

[xstech25]

Hmmm...well i'm running a business and I can either
1: continue to pay to operate and maintain a ride that is old, outdated, and most people don't care about
or
2: replace it with something that is virtually guaranteed to draw huge crowds

Which one would you pick?

 

[Andrew C]

Hmmm...well i'm running a business and I can either
1: continue to pay to operate and maintain a ride that is old, outdated, and most people don't care about
or
2: replace it with something that is virtually guaranteed to draw huge crowds

Which one would you pick?

I think a lot on here would go with option 3: keep World Showcase as World Showcase. Just saying...

 

[Mike S]

Hmmm...well i'm running a business and I can either
1: continue to pay to operate and maintain a ride that is old, outdated, and most people don't care about
or
2: replace it with something that is virtually guaranteed to draw huge crowds

Which one would you pick?

Option 3: Update the old ride (like they've done with PotC, HM, and ST and what was actually planned at one point) and build a brand new one for a movie that made over $1 billion in either MK or DHS that has a large enough capacity to actually handle the crowds it will attract, but what do I know.

 

[xstech25]

Updating the old ride would not be nearly as big of a draw as a Frozen ride and I think everyone knows that.

MK just got major re-investment, DHS is clearly about to go under the knife with a bunch of other things, Epcot is the park that needs this kind of attendance boost right now and the fact that "its kind of Norweigan" is all the justification they need. The purists might not like it, but they are a very small minority of the people that visit and once again money talks. It would be stupid for Disney to NOT do it, it would be leaving big attendance on the table.

I agree Epcot needs significant upgrades to be more relevant (particularly in Future World) but saying that having this ride there is going to ruin the park is just ridiculous. Yea it might ruin the park for you because there are going to be significantly more little kids there, but that's a good thing for Disney.

 

[Bairstow]

I agree Epcot needs significant upgrades to be more relevant (particularly in Future World) but saying that having this ride there is going to ruin the park is just ridiculous. Yea it might ruin the park for you because there are going to be significantly more little kids there, but that's a good thing for Disney.

People who say this do so because installing the Frozen overlay and its accompanying remodel of the building exteriors is actively removing one of the countries from the World Showcase and replacing it with a fantasy attraction themed after a popular movie. This is probably the smart thing to do from Disney's perspective, since most park-going guests couldn't care less about the intended theme of EPCOT, but for nostalgic fans it's a sad indicator that current park management has no concern for the thematic integrity of the park so long as a change improves overall attendance.

Personally, I can't muster a lot of objection against the overlay since I feel that the ship on the old World Showcase sailed when they butchered El Rio Del Tiempo to add all the Donald Duck TV screens. This is a battle that was fought and lost years ago.

I do, however, think the Frozen overlay is a mistake from an operations standpoint.
Maelstrom, despite being somewhat dated, was still a good-looking ride by EPCOT standards and more importantly was still very popular. Standby wait times under 20 minutes were rare, except at the extreme ends of the operating day. The ride's capacity is not terribly high and it was having no trouble hitting that capacity, so unless they've figured out some clever way to double the hourly capacity of the Maelstrom hardware, re-themeing this particular ride after Disney's single most popular in-house property is going to create absolutely apocalyptic waiting times.

 

[xstech25]

Harry Potter in no way fit the original design intent or storyline of IOA

3rd time saying this:
Money.
Talks.

 

[xstech25]

And I am anticipating someone pointing out "that's why they should build it at MK or DHS, because Maelstrom can't handle those crowds." MK doesn't need an attendance boost at the moment, DHS is getting Star Wars (and probably more), obviously it has no place at DAK (which is getting Avatar and Rivers of Light anyway)....that leaves 1 park that needs to absorb more of the crowds.

 

[Mike S]

Harry Potter in no way fit the original design intent or storyline of IOA

3rd time saying this:
Money.
Talks.

IoA's theme is supposed to be literature (until Kong opens I guess). Last I checked Harry Potter was literature. Try again.

 

[xstech25]

IoA's theme is supposed to be literature (until Kong opens I guess). Last I checked Harry Potter was literature. Try again.

Yes it was changed to literature when they added the Wizarding World of Harry Potter . The idea of the park is that its a series of "islands" (hence the name) that had different themes with nothing cohesive (generic "adventure"). I haven't read the book so I don't know if the village of Hogsmeade is an island but I don't think it is. And the beauty of it is that it doesn't matter anyway because that was going in there no matter what because it makes big bucks.