My Magic + details ...

[Clamman73]

Does anyone know if anyone from the UK has been added to the trial?
We are staying at POR in 65 end of Oct for 14 nights

A thread for you.

http://forums.wdwmagic.com/threads/port-orleans-riverside-mm.871278/#post-5664283

 

[redpill101]

A thread for you.

http://forums.wdwmagic.com/threads/port-orleans-riverside-mm.871278/#post-5664283

Thank you

 

[WDW1974]

Very, very true. I've talked to many DCL guests who were once WDW regulars and aren't any more.

Well, I have three DCL bookings in the next 14 months with another coming (won't take all four, but definitely two or three). I have no onsite plans for WDW at any time in the future. I will visit as part of my annual UNI/Horror Nights October visit, but won't be spending much time. And will definitely not be spending much money.

They lost a whale in me (and, no, size wise I am not even close to the average guest!)

 

[WDW1974]

Back to the original point.. the 'projection' you are working up.. is based on YOUR idea of how the ROI of the project will be evaluated. You can pull out all kinds of numbers.. but if you plug them into the wrong equation none of it matters. So much for 'concrete'. The flaw is in your notion of the contributing elements of the ROI - it only focuses on increased revenue, not improvements elsewhere.

When a business replaces their problematic car with a new one, they don't rely solely on the idea the new car is going to increase their revenues - the new car is in part justified by the increased efficiencies and reduced expenses. The same thing applies to technology - even if the replacement doesn't add new opportunities for revenues. A project like NextGen is likely to provide multiple beneficial paths for the company -- not just rely on increasing guest revenues for it's sole justification.

Are you suggesting that Disney will get a positive ROI out of NGE? (your opinion as obviously you don,t have access to the numbers)

Because I have to tell you that anecdotally almost everyone I talk to in management or WDI does not see them coming close to recouping their costs ...unless they're able to somehow sell this tech or the data to another party or parties.

 

[WDW1974]

Yeah, after 20 years is it still a secret?

No, except for what really went down with the Jim Lewis situation. But they did finally retire the Best Kept Secret campaign a while back (a year? Two?) Kinda hard to keep using it when DVC is at every resort and booths are all over every theme park.

 

[WDW1974]

'Apologists'. You make me laugh.

Coming up with names to denigrate people who disagree with you is the saddest form of discussion. It lessens you.

No, it is a legit term for BRAND advocates who exist on message forums to tow the company line and shout down those with legit criticisms. ...Disney, because of the large emotional component many people have for it, absolutely has a large percentage of these folks online.

 

[Cletus]

Are you suggesting that Disney will get a positive ROI out of NGE? (your opinion as obviously you don,t have access to the numbers)

Because I have to tell you that anecdotally almost everyone I talk to in management or WDI sees them coming close to recouping their costs ...unless they're able to somehow sell this tech or the data to another party or parties.

Did you mean doesn't see them coming close?

 

[luv]

The idea of tech for the sake of tech...spending a billion dollars just to have new tech stuff...it just seems ridiculous to me.

Until someone can point out how it is supposed to pay for itself...I think it's a colassal waste of money.

 

[Keys Please]

I totally get how your ability to maximize the system being lost will stink for you and YOUR family, but can you see how it will be on average a better process?

No.

Recognizing of course that very few people are able to use the system as you do and that if everyone did, many would be unable to use FP at all?

???? There were no special rules for me. What I did, anyone else could have.

 

[lazyboy97o]

The idea of tech for the sake of tech...spending a billion dollars just to have new tech stuff...it just seems ridiculous to me.

Until someone can point out how it is supposed to pay for itself...I think it's a colassal waste of money.

This is the same line of thinking that killed the unique shops, watered down menus, reduced transit to primarily buses, made cutting down water pressure a good idea, and pretty much everything else that has removed the specialness from Walt Disney World.

 

[Longhairbear]

No, except for what really went down with the Jim Lewis situation. But they did r finally retire the Best Kept Secret campaign a while back (a year? Two?) Kinda hard to keep using it when DVC is at every resort and booths are all over every theme park.

Do you have the real scoop on Lewis?

 

[luv]

This is the same line of thinking that killed the unique shops, watered down menus, reduced transit to primarily buses, made cutting down water pressure a good idea, and pretty much everything else that has removed the specialness from Walt Disney World.

Sorry.

I didn't mean to kill all that.

(You cannot hold me personally responsible for the lack of variation in menu items and merchandise, though.)

I saw a cheap quality clutch/wallet in the AK that was kind of unique. It was $54.00. I wasn't about to pay $54 for something that is worth MAYBE $5-7, but it was interesting.

 

[WDW1974]

Not really. Like most of your posts, you bathe everything heavily in your own bias and assume that anyone with a differing opinion is stupid. Meanwhile, you fail to back up your points. Whatever.

Here you claim the skill to know why 'most' people disagree with you. You have no real clue why people book WDW resorts, but you toss around non-Disney hotel prices as if that means anything. It doesn't, really.

People stay at WDW resorts because they believe that it is worth it to do so. To claim that 'most' people make this decision out of ignorance is just another example of your pretending to know things that you clearly do not.

Thanks for getting inside my head and presuming to know where I am coming from.

I travel extensively. I have consulted on travel and hospitality. I am intimately aware of the Disney product from both extensive personal experience and execs within the company itself.

I stand by what I posted. Many WDW resort visitors are not very savvy ... That and they buy into the talking points. ''You MUST stay on WDW property." "The transportation is so convenient, and you get extra time in the parks." "You have to buy the DDP, it is such a deal and covers all your food."

WDW guests are, by and large, not savvy ...discerning travelers. They have no idea what they should be getting for their money. They have no clue what $100 a night should buy, let alone $500.

 

[WDW1974]

Did you mean doesn't see them coming close?

Yes. Thanks. Found and fixed. I do not enjoy the keyboard I wind up posting from much of the time.

 

[WDW1974]

Do you have the real scoop on Lewis?

Yes. You may read more about that this week if I am given the OK to post.

 

[cmybliss]

Thanks for getting inside my head and presuming to know where I am coming from.

I travel extensively. I have consulted on travel and hospitality. I am intimately aware of the Disney product from both extensive personal experience and execs within the company itself.

I stand by what I posted. Many WDW resort visitors are not very savvy ... That and they buy into the talking points. ''You MUST stay on WDW property." "The transportation is so convenient, and you get extra time in the parks." "You have to buy the DDP, it is such a deal and covers all your food."

WDW guests are, by and large, not savvy ...discerning travelers. They have no idea what they should be getting for their money. They have no clue what $100 a night should buy, let alone $500.

I was not going to jump in here, but I have to say, that's not a very nice or accurate picture of people you know nothing about.

I consider myself a very savvy shopper in general. I never pay full price for anything. I always travel in the off season to avoid the crowds and high prices, and always book during free dining. And I choose to stay on property. The convenience of being picked up at the airport and transported to my hotel after a long cross country flight alone is worth it! Not having to mind car keys or worry that my rental will be smooshed or dinged in the parking lot also has value. Not having to look at prices on menus is lovely. The fact that I can fly from Northern California (wine country for the win!) to DW and enjoy a completely care free vacation for less than a trip to Disneyland has value to me.

Are the rooms at Disney amazing and spacious and spectacular? Maybe not. But you know what? They're priced the same as many comparable rooms in my neck of the woods and they come with more perks.

To be clear, I am not a rabid Disney fan who starts foaming at the mouth every time someone disses my beloved parks. I enjoy the parks. They're one of my favorite places to vacation. But I also enjoy the Universal parks (we'll be spending a couple of days there this trip. Guess I'll have to mind those keys for a day or two after all!) and the Six Flags parks, and the beach, and multitudes of other places.

I guess what I'm trying to say is, painting Disney travelers with a broad brush loaded with scorn and unkindness is not only rude, but inaccurate. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, and no one can tell someone else to change theirs, but you could at least try and use a little tact. Slinging names at people is never nice.

 

[1023]

I agree with you about not wanting to wait for attractions, but who the heck does? I totally get how your ability to maximize the system being lost will stink for you and YOUR family, but can you see how it will be on average a better process? Recognizing of course that very few people are able to use the system as you do and that if everyone did, many would be unable to use FP at all?

Life is not fair. After graduate out of the youth league soccer matches, there are no trophies for participation. When I see arguments oriented around the "fairness" of the FastPass legacy system or the new FastPassMinus system, I almost immediately disregard them. Why? See my first line. If your pursuit of "fairness" includes making sure everyone got their allotment of FastPassMinus to the premier "legacy" attractions, that pursuit cannot be realized.

The folks posting negatively about just this one aspect of MM-, (and there are many) have a valid complaint. They are recognizing their "vacation time" is being diminished. They are acting out of a healthy self-interest and for anyone to expect anything else is unrealistic. Many, if not all,of the people here on this forum have been to WDW more than a few times. They are familiar with how the existing system works. They use it to their benefit. They have educated themselves about it. Some people take the system and make a living from it. (Ever heard of Touring Plans? Everyone who uses this type of method can receive and use more than 3 FastPasses if they so choose.)

Before my first visit to WDW, I studied the attractions I wanted to visit. I had a plan to make my way to all of the attractions in my limited time. I nearly saw everything. As we know, plans are great going into the battlefield but are often abandoned at the first shot. I had to adapt as I went based on many factors,(weather, location, and FastPass return times) which often upset my apple cart. But I was able to adapt. I was better prepared my next trip. I had my "unofficial guide".

Under the new framework, as FastPassMinus is being tested, a change of plans will not be easily done and often simply impossible. You will be left with 2 choices with any change in circumstance; abandon your reservation or continue onward despite how untenable that reservation may be. The following is an example.

Tuesday was to be a trip to Blizzard Beach but the thunderstorms are going to be a hindrance to that experience all day. Should I move my Blizzard Beach to Thursday when the weather system will have passed? That's a hard decision as Thursday was my day at Magic Kingdom with my 3 FastPassMinus and I can't get any FastPassMinus at Magic Kingdom today for anything that was a "legacy" FastPass attraction. Is this added level of stress something you should have to deal with on "vacation"? Is this "fair"?

Spontaneity and circumstance are being removed and their replacement is a very expensive, regimented experience that will bare little to no resemblance to any previous "vacation". At this point, I expect the usual suspects to say," You can always go elsewhere to vacation." While that is true it does not address the fundamental loss of flexibility that is the subject of this thread. Another argument," You can exchange your FastPassMinus for another one from your phone or a super handy "magical" kiosk." Perhaps, if the system works as hoped, but it is highly unlikely to get a same day exchange for an E-ticket attraction or even a "legacy" FastPass attraction.

Others will say," I can still choose the 3 attractions I value most." While that is true, you are exchanging the physical "rope drop" for a virtual one. It must be mentioned that those 3 FastPassMinus, must be in the same park under the new framework. There will be no more "park hopping" FastPassMinus to be had. Additionally, a person on the west coast is at a competitive disadvantage for selecting their FastPassMinus unless they stay up past midnight for the first day of their window. (I experience this disadvantage on ADRs all the time. The most recent example was this morning for California Grill at Contemporary.)

At least, under the "legacy" FastPass system, a family from Germany flying half way around the world is on a level playing field. Once they see someone by-passing the standby lines, they can inquire about FastPass if they don't already know about it. After some investigating on their part, they can use the system to great benefit for the rest of their trip. Under the new FastPassMinus system, they can learn about the new system (perhaps even in advance) but not be able to utilize it fully to their advantage. If they realize their mistake selecting one of the "new" FastPassMinus fake demand options(read: Space Ship Earth), they may miss out on the opportunity to replace it with one of the "legacy" attractions.

I am in the minority of folks who can spend an entire day at the parks riding few if any attractions. With that said, I have on many occasions utilized more than 8 FastPass in a day. In my last visit to WDW, I used one FastPass for Toy Story Midway Mania. My visit was 6 days.

The "legacy" system sets aside a time for enjoying an attraction while you participate in other things. It is a part of your "flexible" schedule. You can cross the park, fit in meals, catch a character greet, or whatever your fancy.

Under the FastPassMinus system, your day will have to be oriented around those passes in a "rigid" fashion. Additionally, there is no allowance for a change in your personal or family circumstance. It may even limit how many times you can experience an attraction. Try and get 3 FastPassMinus for Toy Story Midway Mania in a day.

Ultimately, based on the testing, published information, and reliable sources on these forums, this is a step backward for "vacations". Your escape from the real world is being encroached upon by a fancy GUI on your computer, phone or tablet that maintains a "rigid" schedule.(and hey, "usual suspects", don't say things like," You can opt not to use it." as that is really a ridiculous option.) Trying to escape from your cell phone became more difficult. The Disney 10,000 mile stare will happen sooner during the trip. Surrender to......oh well....

I hate to think what will be said here if they make FastPassMinus a "paid" upgrade in the future. It may just end up with resort guests getting twice as many FastPassMinus. Would those options be more fair? ("Usual suspects", move along. This is speculative. Feel free to state that "Disney is running a business" somewhere else as we all know that.)

*1023*

 

[unkadug]

I was not going to jump in here, but I have to say, that's not a very nice or accurate picture of people you know nothing about.

I consider myself a very savvy shopper in general. I never pay full price for anything. I always travel in the off season to avoid the crowds and high prices, and always book during free dining. And I choose to stay on property. The convenience of being picked up at the airport and transported to my hotel after a long cross country flight alone is worth it! Not having to mind car keys or worry that my rental will be smooshed or dinged in the parking lot also has value. Not having to look at prices on menus is lovely. The fact that I can fly from Northern California (wine country for the win!) to DW and enjoy a completely care free vacation for less than a trip to Disneyland has value to me.

Are the rooms at Disney amazing and spacious and spectacular? Maybe not. But you know what? They're priced the same as many comparable rooms in my neck of the woods and they come with more perks.

To be clear, I am not a rabid Disney fan who starts foaming at the mouth every time someone disses my beloved parks. I enjoy the parks. They're one of my favorite places to vacation. But I also enjoy the Universal parks (we'll be spending a couple of days there this trip. Guess I'll have to mind those keys for a day or two after all!) and the Six Flags parks, and the beach, and multitudes of other places.

I guess what I'm trying to say is, painting Disney travelers with a broad brush loaded with scorn and unkindness is not only rude, but inaccurate. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, and no one can tell someone else to change theirs, but you could at least try and use a little tact. Slinging names at people is never nice.

While it might be convenient for you, it's not really a good deal when you weigh the costs out.

For the a lot less money you could eat your meals ala carte and come out ahead. Especially considering the room discount you would get if you went during a non-free dining period.

Staying off site will more than pay for a rental car and insurance for it as well and allow you to spend some extra money somewhere OFFSITE as well.

Sure the convenience is there, but with a little more planning so much more is available.

 

[cmybliss]

While it might be convenient for you, it's not really a good deal when you weigh the costs out.

For the a lot less money you could eat your meals ala carte and come out ahead. Especially considering the room discount you would get if you went during a non-free dining period.

Staying off site will more than pay for a rental car and insurance for it as well and allow you to spend some extra money somewhere OFFSITE as well.

Sure the convenience is there, but with a little more planning so much more is available.

I would respectfully disagree. For my family, this is the best option. I have no desire to travel during peak season. Nor do I wish to navigate myself from a busy airport after an exhausting flight. (That's worth a couple hundred to me right there!) Nor do I wish to worry about food costs while at the parks, I can do that on any other vacation.

I don't have to pay extra for rental insurance, that's covered by the plastic I put it on. What I don't desire dealing with, is the consequences and headache of a smooshed car while on vacation. (Another instance where it's worth a few extra bucks.)

With what we saved by traveling in Sept. and going with the free dinning, we're able to head to Uni and spring for a few extras like wands from HP and possibly a Delorian for my Back to the Future obsessed daughter. (She needs the one from part 2!)

Value is not a tangible thing. Often it is in the eye of the beholder. If you find value staying off site great! Enjoy your vacation! But telling others that their opinion or definition of value is wrong, is not o.k.

 

[luv]

I stayed in Disney hotels a lot. I get wanting to be in the bubble. It's also fun to watch the videos and look up hotels and pick the theme you like.

There is nothing wrong with staying in WDW hotels. It certainly doesn't make you stupid, lol.

People have said that they know the service isn't too hot, but they like being in monorail hotels because they avoid that TTC stuff and to them, it's worth the extra cost, because the money doesn't matter to them. So, good for them.

But you can stay in better hotels, with better service, if you leave the Disney property. You can also stay in nice, large condos or houses. All that extra space really does make a vacation more relaxing, especially if you are traveling with children!

Everybody has to pick what works for them. If someone doesn't like your choice...well, they can lump it. Who cares. Go where YOU will happy. It's your vacation.