Spirited News, Observations & Thoughts IV

[Computer Magic]

WDW does dominate the under 48" crowd and no one (including Uni) can touch it.

However, children grow up and start wanting to go on the "big kid" rides. In the last decade or so, WDW management has gone out of its way to turn what once was a cross-generational resort into a kiddie park. Does WDW still have cross-generational appeal? You bet, but not like in the old days before Uni. WDW has exactly one 48" roller coaster. Many 10-year-olds want to ride Forbidden Journey, not Peter Pan's Flight.

Less and less, WDW is the de facto vacation destination place it once used to be with American families. Perhaps the single biggest cause of this is cost. Just look at a 7-day base ticket. In 2005 it was $199. Today it's $309. Family income just hasn't kept pace.

Today's WDW attendance is largely propped up by a growing middle class in Brazil and Argentina, who are using their new-found wealth to vacation at WDW. Take away that revenue stream and WDW attendance would be down appreciably.

Another good point. It seems to start with the influx princess's and Meet and Greet stations. I've posted commercials from the 90's where Disney was targeting adults and honeymoon in Disney. Today, You see a family of 4 with a boy in a pirate suit and a girl running around with a princess.

 

[PirateFrank]

The general thinking was that Avatar was successful because of the 3D. Truth is it was successful because it told a good story and 3D was the director's tool to help convey that story....

You lost me at 'good story'

 

[cslafferty]

Ok . . .
First of all, thank you WDW1974 for the info. Next time, it would be great if you could just post all of your news on the first page so I wouldn't have to wade through 75 pages of "stuff" - everything from Fat Tire to the story behind HM. Although, I did learn that this site is from the UK - didn't know that!
And, I suppose I'll have to continue to watch this thread, since I don't know if you're finished with your announcements or not.

Second, I applaud the moderators and appreciate the hard work that they do - this is a great forum!

Third, this thread has generally become another "Uni good; WDW bad" discussion. I guess I just don't see things that way. I see Uni/IoA and WDW as comparing apples to oranges. They're both fruit, and they both grow on trees, but other than that . . . I will never say "I'm frustrated with Disney, so I'm spending my money at Uni" because they are two different experiences. Doesn't mean I'm not frustrated with the way things are going at WDW. If I wasn't frustrated and looking for change, believe me I wouldn't have spent several hours wading through this thread looking for news! But, if it ever gets to the point where I'm so frustrated that I want to go elsewhere, then I'll go to DLR to get my Disney fix until things improve at WDW. Someone earlier in this thread talked about nostalgia, and that's what keeps bringing me (and others) to Disney parks. I grew up with Disney. My kids grew up with Disney. I think of sitting next to my dad when I ride POTC, and feel his presence when I ride it now that he's gone. I remember twirling my little daughter around the room as we danced to "Under the Sea" and watched my other daughter bounce around like Tigger. I saw all the HP movies and read all the books, still have all the Dr. Seuss books in my classroom, and watch The Simpsons regularly - but none of that gives me the warm fuzzy feeling I get when I go to a Disney Park, no matter how bad things have gotten. So me taking my vacation dollars down the road wouldn't do it for me. Uni/IoA are very cool, and I suppose if I were into big thrill rides we'd spend more time there. I'm glad for those that enjoy them that they're really doing great things there. I'm glad there's competition in Orlando because that will benefit all. But, no matter how great those parks get, it won't get me to spend my vacation there because that's just not where my heart is. Its not a trade off.

So, go ahead and call me what you will (Pixieduster), and yell at me for throwing my money down the drain when i could be getting a better value down the road. When you all go down the road, the lines will be shorter for me.

I'm done now.

 

[scout68]

Great point. There was actually a time when people dressed up to go the hardware store. Times have changed, it's no longer the era in which Grace Kelly said that as a lady, she would NEVER wear pants in public, but, taking a little pride and self respect in how we present ourselves is still how things SHOULD be. Rich, poor or somewhere in the middle, dignity or looking like you care may be a dying thing.

I couldn't agree more.

I am completely against ladies wearing pants.

 

[Captain Neo]

I wish they would just get rid of Fastpass entirely and do the following:

-Restore lost capacity. Ever wonder why lines are so long? It's because Disney has been shutting down attractions without replacements for years! Create something like the Skyway to absorb crowds, bring back the water crafts on the Rivers of America, add another e or D ticket to each park for Gods sake, and a few smaller dark rides to Fantasyland.
-Redo all queues so that guests are shaded, their are places to sit, and there is nice themeing and some interactive elements to immerse them in the storyline
-Create a pay for "front of the line" Access system like Universal does. If you really don't want to stand in the line like everybody else

 

[GiveMeTheMusic]

I couldn't agree more.

I am completely against ladies wearing pants.

Especially white ones after Labor Day!

 

[flynnibus]

On the bright side.. At least they are looking at how to raise revenue, instead of focusing only on cutting costs and raising prices as the way to get to the goal..

 

[71jason]

Bob Iger was with Disney when DAK opened in 1998 and would have seen that an entirely new and expensive theme park did not obtain the desired results. He would have observed similar disappointing results after the opening of DCA in 2001. With essentially no theme park experience, I can imagine how these events would have influenced his view of the industry and fed into the narrative that theme parks in mature markets offered limited growth potential.

This actually seems like a telling point, and would make a nice jumping off point for the eventual book telling the cautionary tale of how Disney went wrong.

Now preliminary test results suggest that FP+ will have limited appeal. It will be popular among some guests but won't turn all guests into extreme planners. It won't capture guests onsite the way the much less expensive DME did. The fear within the corporate halls at Disney today is that rather than bother with the relatively steep learning curve associated with MM+, guests will simply opt for new and exciting attractions at Universal, hence the relatively recent scramble to try to do something with DHS.

The problem is a system like this plays to the WDW base. To realize its value, and know enough to recognize "if we have an ADR at Mama Melrose, we should book a TSM Fastpass an hour earlier," you have to have more than a passing familiarity with WDW. Avoiding pejoratives for once, the people who benefit most from this plan are frequent visitors. And frequent visitors, by definition, are going to come back no matter what you do. First-timers/occasional visitors (say once a decade)/one day guests? The system offers less value to them--and it's a lot harder to describe than "new Harry Potter land."

 

[PhotoDave219]

I'm watching a guest altercation unfold in front of me involving people in line for hoop-dee-do.

A woman just threw a drink on another guest. Security has not responded yet, it's been at least 10 minutes

 

[FrankLapidus]

Here's a better example to help make my point -
The general thinking was that Avatar was successful because of the 3D. Truth is it was successful because it told a good story and 3D was the director's tool to help convey that story..

It really wasn't, it is a film that perfectly typifies style over substance. The special effects, as groundbreaking as they might have been, can't mask the fact that the story itself is hopelessly derivative and the characters are dull, forgettable and completely one-dimensional.

 

[unkadug]

I'm watching a guest altercation unfold in front of me involving people in line for hoop-dee-do.

A woman just threw a drink on another guest. Security has not responded yet, it's been at least 10 minutes

The drink should be dry by now!

 

[RSoxNo1]

If there are low numbers now it is because people don't yet get it. The adoption of regular FP was slow. Overtime people will get it, and it will be just as popular as FP is now.

I couldn't disagree more. The most telling thin to come from this mess was the best post on this site's history: planning your universal vacation vs planning your Disney vacation

 

[RSoxNo1]

I guess we will found out very soon - my feeling is that it will be very popular. Just the fact that guests wont have to walk between FP machines will sway a lot of people. I can very well imagine people at breakfast whipping out the iPhone and picking up some FP+. Much better than charging across the park in a mad dash to a FP machine in a lot of people's eyes.

You can have all that day of without the pre planning. Use the current distribution system, integrate with smart phones as well as legacy paper fast passes so that it's fair for everyone.

 

[MerlinTheGoat]

I'm watching a guest altercation unfold in front of me involving people in line for hoop-dee-do.

A woman just threw a drink on another guest. Security has not responded yet, it's been at least 10 minutes

Only one way to settle this! SKETTI WRESTLING!!!

 

[RSoxNo1]

Maybe. The trend in the US is moving towards shorter last minute trips which runs counter to long range planning.

I believe Jim Hill said a couple years ago that the trend changed from bookin things 6 months out to closer to 6 weeks out. Even now, I'm debating a trip in January and the only thing I have in place is dining reservations because that's the stupid system Disney has set up. So I'm playing by their rules, but I have the exact same reservations for 5 consecutive days because I have no idea what my plans are going to be 6 months out.

This is what people would do wen the dining plan came out, and it continues even with the credit card reservation. It's a function of years of an decisions and the guest putting up with it.

If fast pass+ results in shutting out fast pass access for some guests, it's going to result in people flat out not going. Next gen has the very real potential to be the biggest mistake in the history of the company.

 

[cslafferty]

I'm watching a guest altercation unfold in front of me involving people in line for hoop-dee-do.

A woman just threw a drink on another guest. Security has not responded yet, it's been at least 10 minutes

I don't know . . . WDW in August . . . If someone through a drink on me I might thank them!

 

[djlaosc]

Much better than charging across the park in a mad dash to a FP machine in a lot of people's eyes.

Now, we're just going to have to dash at opening if you want to be able to get on some of the main rides more than once without standing in long queues (can't get more than one FP+ reservation for the same attraction), or if you can't get a FP+ reservation out for them at 60 days out...

I would guess that there will still be a 9am dash for Soarin' and TSMM...

 

[awilliams4]

I'm watching a guest altercation unfold in front of me involving people in line for hoop-dee-do.

A woman just threw a drink on another guest. Security has not responded yet, it's been at least 10 minutes

So, did security eventually show?

 

[Lightyear999]

A woman just threw a drink on another guest.

Limited Time Magic?

 

[GoofGoof]

Ok . . .
First of all, thank you WDW1974 for the info. Next time, it would be great if you could just post all of your news on the first page so I wouldn't have to wade through 75 pages of "stuff" - everything from Fat Tire to the story behind HM. Although, I did learn that this site is from the UK - didn't know that!
And, I suppose I'll have to continue to watch this thread, since I don't know if you're finished with your announcements or not.

Here's the way I see it. If I'm wrong @WDW1974 can chime in and correct me. The way these spirited threads work is that 74 begins with a provocative statement about some issues or opinion about WDW or the theme park universe or sometimes something in the real world. He usually pops in late at night (someone should check his fridge for true blood). The topic is brought up for discussion or debate. Often times he throws in some nuggets of inside info and will answer questions people have if he knows the answer. The point of the thread is to discuss things not just to dump inside info out there for the masses. Unfortunately, sometimes things get derailed by a troll or a thread drift, but in general the spirited threads usually have some pretty good points on both sides. I know a lot of people are following this thread like Geraldo when he opened Al Capone's vault, but the info people seek isn't going to get out there any faster by badgering our "host".

This and I agree with your point on Uni vs WDW. There is no issue with enjoying both.