Western way park/5th gate

[Prock3]

Why would the price get cheaper? The only way it gets cheaper is if the Marvel properties stop making money at the box office and people stop buying merchandise in droves. The more it makes Disney, the more valuable the property and theme park rights become. Universal can set any price they want as they have all the advantage in terms of rights on the East Coast.

And I don't see how 1 billion isn't reasonable. Yes Universal can get more per dollar than Disney. But there is no incentive for Universal to say "we are only going to ask for exactly what we think the cost of a retheme would be." They can ask for the farm... Because they can. And if Disney really wants it, they are just going to have to eat the cost.

Right now universal doesn't need anything new with all the additions coming in the next 2 years, so if Disney wanted them to tear down a land in one of their parks it's gonna cost Disney a lot more since universal needs some extra incentive to do so. But 5 or 6 years from now when the hype for potter is starting to settle down and universal raked in their mountains of money from it they will probably look at a way to boost attendance by doing a major refurbishment (seeing as Marvel is getting more popular that's probably want they'd try to refurb, and disney might not let that happen) they will then decide what and where do we do a re themeing and what do we retheme it to. That's when disney can step in and Uni gets paid to do something they were wanting to do. Super hero island is probably the easiest land to refurb at ioa, it's flat, there's no water rides you have to mess with, not to mention its a very large land area, and if you desired you could push it further into toon lagoon.

Right now it may cost disney 1 billion, but years from now if they are already looking at spending a large sum of money at the resort, 100 or 200 million might be enough to give them extra incentive

 

[bubbles1812]

Right now universal doesn't need anything new with all the additions coming in the next 2 years, so if Disney wanted them to tear down a land in one of their parks it's gonna cost Disney a lot more since universal needs some extra incentive to do so. But 5 or 6 years from now when the hype for potter is starting to settle down and universal raked in their mountains of money from it they will probably look at a way to boost attendance by doing a major refurbishment (seeing as Marvel is getting more popular that's probably want they'd try to refurb, and disney might not let that happen) they will then decide what and where do we do a re themeing and what do we retheme it to. That's when disney can step in and Uni gets paid to do something they were wanting to do. Super hero island is probably the easiest land to refurb at ioa, it's flat, there's no water rides you have to mess with, not to mention its a very large land area, and if you desired you could push it further into toon lagoon.

Right now it may cost disney 1 billion, but years from now if they are already looking at spending a large sum of money at the resort, 100 or 200 million might be enough to give them extra incentive

100 to 200 million seems like a pretty poor sum of money. It's not much compared to the value that is Marvel. Are you assuming the hype for Marvel will die down as well? And why would they choose the Marvel area? They aren't Disney. They keep their rides well maintained and that area of the park is very nice. I don't expect the recently refurbed Spider-Man or The Hulk to fall apart in 5 years. Do you? Yes Marvel is more popular these days but that doesn't mean they would need to refurb the area. They already have the well maintained land as previously mentioned. Spider-man is a world renowned ride. And if they want to build something new, well, Id say even if Disney tried to block it, they would have a pretty darn good chance of winning in the courts. There is no indication whatsoever Universal is not following that contract to the T.

Not to mention, they have other area of the parks they can do a lot more with... think about Toon Lagoon, the rest of the Lost Continent, ect... There is plenty they can do and probably have more incentive to refurb that the Super Hero area. Those are the problem areas of the park, and they certainly don't need Disney's money to solve the problems there... As you already admitted, they are going to come out of HP 2.0 with gobs of money. And especially not for a measley 200 million, when the value of the Marvel properties is decidedly more.

You can do a decent amount with 200 million but the costs of things continue to go up and for example, Disney couldn't even build a full land with that amount of money. Universal gets more for their dollar but they can do a lot more with a billion than 200 million. And yet again, they have absolutely no incentive to lower the price and settle for such a paltry amount. They won't need the money from an outside company.

 

[lebeau]

14 pages?

14 pages of stupid and apparently a whole new thread on the same stupidity. Are people having brain tumors for breakfast?

 

[Captain Chaos]

14 pages of stupid and apparently a whole new thread on the same stupidity. Are people having brain tumors for breakfast?

No, the nice weather is coming in to stay (for a few months anyway) so the kids take to the computers instead of going outside and getting some exercise...

 

[lebeau]

No, the nice weather is coming in to stay (for a few months anyway) so the kids take to the computers instead of going outside and getting some exercise...

I hope you are right. I hope it's kids. I would be really sad to think that these threads are being started and these arguments being made by adults who should know better by this point. Maybe these kids will learn a valuable lesson about fact checking.

 

[BalooChicago]

I still think a Disney Marvel park in Texas (Or Louisiana) would be interesting.

 

[Hakunamatata]

I still think a Disney Marvel park in Texas (Or Louisiana) would be interesting.

I don't see a specific Marvel park being popular stand alone. Maybe a quasi movie park with SW, Marvel, and Disney/Pixar.

 

[Prock3]

100 to 200 million seems like a pretty poor sum of money. It's not much compared to the value that is Marvel. Are you assuming the hype for Marvel will die down as well? And why would they choose the Marvel area? They aren't Disney. They keep their rides well maintained and that area of the park is very nice. I don't expect the recently refurbed Spider-Man or The Hulk to fall apart in 5 years. Do you? Yes Marvel is more popular these days but that doesn't mean they would need to refurb the area. They already have the well maintained land as previously mentioned. Spider-man is a world renowned ride. And if they want to build something new, well, Id say even if Disney tried to block it, they would have a pretty darn good chance of winning in the courts. There is no indication whatsoever Universal is not following that contract to the T.

Not to mention, they have other area of the parks they can do a lot more with... think about Toon Lagoon, the rest of the Lost Continent, ect... There is plenty they can do and probably have more incentive to refurb that the Super Hero area. Those are the problem areas of the park, and they certainly don't need Disney's money to solve the problems there... As you already admitted, they are going to come out of HP 2.0 with gobs of money. And especially not for a measley 200 million, when the value of the Marvel properties is decidedly more.

You can do a decent amount with 200 million but the costs of things continue to go up and for example, Disney couldn't even build a full land with that amount of money. Universal gets more for their dollar but they can do a lot more with a billion than 200 million. And yet again, they have absolutely no incentive to lower the price and settle for such a paltry amount. They won't need the money from an outside company.

Look at it this way, if you were universal and have a rethemeing planned for lets say lost continent and you have a budget of around 500-800 million dollars. Well Disney comes in and says we will give you 200 million dollars if you retheme Super Hero Island instead. Would you be so quick to say no? Its almost free money. Its increasing your budget for the project dramatically, allowing you to build basically an additional attraction, or put that money away for future projects.

And as I said in my post, Its a land that takes quite a large amount of area, allowing you to do much more in it. Its an area that is flat, meaning that there is less ground work required which saves a large amount of money. There are no major water features that would need to be removed, lowering demolition costs, and if you desired a future expansion for it you can expand it into that deadspace between towards toon lagoon. Lost continent is landlocked between Potter and Suess, and its a very small land. Not to mention the amount of gridlock that would be caused if you put a major attraction next to the already crowded entrance to hogsmede. If anything that would be a good area to do another future potter expansion, although as time goes on and potter gets older and older with no new material coming out that may not be as economically viable as it is today. (Just like Avatar will be in 10 to 15 years, provided the sequels come out, as if it was even economically viable at this time)


200 million is nothing to dismiss in the theme park industry.

And remember when they refurbished spiderman they only put a new film in, new projectors, rebuilt some sets and thats it, they didn't change the story of the attraction so Disney had no reason to stop it, not that they would've if they could.

And Uni doesnt have as great of a maintenance department as everyone on here thinks they do. The reason people think they have such a great one is that everyone holds Disney to such a ridiculously high standard they think if it doesn't look exactly like it did when it opened its falling a part. Have you looked around the hulk queue? Its horrible, everything looks cheap, its dirty. If you look in the post show there are dead bugs everywhere, the lights on the ceiling are filled with them too. Universal and Ioa just look cheap and dirty compared to disney parks.

I agree that Marvel will never happen in WDW, TDO thinks they don't need it, nor do they want it, its just too cost prohibitive. It will only happen when Uni moves on and builds something else.

 

[bubbles1812]

Look at it this way, if you were universal and have a rethemeing planned for lets say lost continent and you have a budget of around 500-800 million dollars. Well Disney comes in and says we will give you 200 million dollars if you retheme Super Hero Island instead. Would you be so quick to say no? Its almost free money. Its increasing your budget for the project dramatically, allowing you to build basically an additional attraction, or put that money away for future projects.

And as I said in my post, Its a land that takes quite a large amount of area, allowing you to do much more in it. Its an area that is flat, meaning that there is less ground work required which saves a large amount of money. There are no major water features that would need to be removed, lowering demolition costs, and if you desired a future expansion for it you can expand it into that deadspace between towards toon lagoon. Lost continent is landlocked between Potter and Suess, and its a very small land. Not to mention the amount of gridlock that would be caused if you put a major attraction next to the already crowded entrance to hogsmede. If anything that would be a good area to do another future potter expansion, although as time goes on and potter gets older and older with no new material coming out that may not be as economically viable as it is today. (Just like Avatar will be in 10 to 15 years, provided the sequels come out, as if it was even economically viable at this time)


200 million is nothing to dismiss in the theme park industry.

And remember when they refurbished spiderman they only put a new film in, new projectors, rebuilt some sets and thats it, they didn't change the story of the attraction so Disney had no reason to stop it, not that they would've if they could.

And Uni doesnt have as great of a maintenance department as everyone on here thinks they do. The reason people think they have such a great one is that everyone holds Disney to such a ridiculously high standard they think if it doesn't look exactly like it did when it opened its falling a part. Have you looked around the hulk queue? Its horrible, everything looks cheap, its dirty. If you look in the post show there are dead bugs everywhere, the lights on the ceiling are filled with them too. Universal and Ioa just look cheap and dirty compared to disney parks.

I agree that Marvel will never happen in WDW, TDO thinks they don't need it, nor do they want it, its just too cost prohibitive. It will only happen when Uni moves on and builds something else.

But you seem to be operating under the assumption that universal/Comcast is dumb and wouldn't realize that the Marvel rights are worth a whole lot more than 200 million dollars. I assure you they are not. And they are far better than Disney at maintaining their rides. Look at how pathetic Splash Mountain had to get before they would do anything. It's also clear you haven't been to universal of late as they have cleaned things up a ton. I saw more garbage at Disney than I did at Universal in February. They are not "dirty parks" as you seem to think.

200 million is not a pittance, you are right. But it is a pittance compared to what the Marvel rights are worth. And when you can ask for the farm because you hold ALL the cards, as Universal does, that's what you do. Accepting 200 million would just be stupid if you know you can get a billion. And the rights only become more valuable with each Marvel success.

So to answer your question.. Yes I would be quick to say no. In fact, I would laugh in there face and say try again. And then Id go count my Harry Potter money and realize, yes I can afford it. I can do exactly what I want without Disney's money. And still keep my Marvel trump card.

 

[lazyboy97o]

Look at it this way, if you were universal and have a rethemeing planned for lets say lost continent and you have a budget of around 500-800 million dollars. Well Disney comes in and says we will give you 200 million dollars if you retheme Super Hero Island instead. Would you be so quick to say no? Its almost free money. Its increasing your budget for the project dramatically, allowing you to build basically an additional attraction, or put that money away for future projects.

It's not free money. You still have to account for lost business and other factors. I bet Universal sells far more merchandise in Marvel Superhero Island than they do in the Lost Continent, and that amount probably only increases when a big film like The Avengers or Iron Man 3 opens. Any sensible person is going to want to have that loss covered. That $200-300 million also then gets added to the budget whatever it is Disney wants to build.

 

[BryceM]

Universal and Ioa just look cheap and dirty compared to disney parks.

You went from the Hulk queue, to generalizing that the parks as a whole look "cheap and dirty compared to Disney parks"?

Lol. Okay. I could point out a ton of areas at WDW that are dirty at the moment, but I'm not going to say "wow, Peter Pan's queue looks cheap, tacky and dirty, so therefore all Disney parks are cheap, tacky and dirty". And bubbles brought up some great points; First off, did you see Splash Mountain before Disney finally got around to refurbishing that thing? My god. And second off, the rights to Marvel are way more than $200 million.

 

[Captain Chaos]

And Uni doesnt have as great of a maintenance department as everyone on here thinks they do. The reason people think they have such a great one is that everyone holds Disney to such a ridiculously high standard they think if it doesn't look exactly like it did when it opened its falling a part. Have you looked around the hulk queue? Its horrible, everything looks cheap, its dirty. If you look in the post show there are dead bugs everywhere, the lights on the ceiling are filled with them too. Universal and Ioa just look cheap and dirty compared to disney parks.

Now try saying that with a straight face...

 

[nytimez]

When someone says something like "Universal and Ioa just look cheap and dirty compared to disney parks"
they're either:

1) a troll
2) eyes too blinded by pixie dust to have a reasonable conversation
3) a troll
4) someone who hasn't been at Universal, IOA or Disney in ages
5) a troll

Take your pick - I can guarantee one or more is bound to be correct.

 

[Prock3]

Im actually a Universal AP holder and before I moved away from orlando I visited their parks far more often than I would Disney parks, and all of my AP holder roommates held the same feelings as I did. WWOHP is my favorite area of any park, simply because of how incredibly immersive and detailed it is. I may have overstated it when I said all of UNI and IOA are dirty, Ill admit that, but there are many things that Universal lets slide detail and upkeep wise that Disney Picks up, because Uni is smart enough to use that money for bigger and better things. Disney fans get excited and go nuts about "the disney details" when there are elephant tracks and peanuts embedded in concrete, and then overlook the massive flaws the parks have. Universal fans get excited when they build amazing attractions, and continually look to improve the resort something that Disney needs to pick up on. I love Universal, but there are things that they can definitely improve on lets be honest.

As far as theme park rights go it isn't park rights for the entire world, which would easily be a billion dollars, its for east of the Mississippi. Its not gonna cost as much, granted it could still fetch a princely sum but not a billion.

Is Uni even able to sell Iron Man or Avengers merchandise? I don't recall seeing anything but spiderman, captain america, Fan 4 and some X men.

 

[Prock3]

You went from the Hulk queue, to generalizing that the parks as a whole look "cheap and dirty compared to Disney parks"?

Lol. Okay. I could point out a ton of areas at WDW that are dirty at the moment, but I'm not going to say "wow, Peter Pan's queue looks cheap, tacky and dirty, so therefore all Disney parks are cheap, tacky and dirty". And bubbles brought up some great points; First off, did you see Splash Mountain before Disney finally got around to refurbishing that thing? My god. And second off, the rights to Marvel are way more than $200 million.

Pan's queue looking cheap and tacky?? How can you call painted concrete and stainless steel queue chains tacky!

 

[flavious27]

Universal has no incentive to release those rights currently, regardless of whatever offer Disney may make. Which would be prohibitively expensive to begin with.

This really has been discussed ad nauseum before, with emphasis on the nauseum.....

It is one of the top 5 wdw magic topics.

Along with the Yeti
Any other 5th gate talk
disney making a wwhp killer
monorails / transportation

 

[PeterAlt]

Right now universal doesn't need anything new with all the additions coming in the next 2 years, so if Disney wanted them to tear down a land in one of their parks it's gonna cost Disney a lot more since universal needs some extra incentive to do so. But 5 or 6 years from now when the hype for potter is starting to settle down and universal raked in their mountains of money from it they will probably look at a way to boost attendance by doing a major refurbishment (seeing as Marvel is getting more popular that's probably want they'd try to refurb, and disney might not let that happen) they will then decide what and where do we do a re themeing and what do we retheme it to. That's when disney can step in and Uni gets paid to do something they were wanting to do. Super hero island is probably the easiest land to refurb at ioa, it's flat, there's no water rides you have to mess with, not to mention its a very large land area, and if you desired you could push it further into toon lagoon.

Right now it may cost disney 1 billion, but years from now if they are already looking at spending a large sum of money at the resort, 100 or 200 million might be enough to give them extra incentive

I don't know if you got the memo or not, but a few months ago, Comcast made the announcement that they were going to put an additional $1.5 billion into new USO attractions and refurbishing old ones, over the next several years. This is on top of the new resort they are building. This includes the HP expansion, Transformers, the Simpsons street, and other major additions that are still to be announced. This is more than the $1.3 billion Disney put into the DCA makeover at the DLR (which included Cars Land and RSR). You can say this latest Comcast investment in USO is in response to Avatar and that they are trying to copy Disney's successful DCA makeover but applying it to Orlando. Disney has yet to respond to Comcast and announce any new attractions for WDW beyond Avatar. We'll just have to wait and see what happens.

 

[PeterAlt]

14 pages of stupid and apparently a whole new thread on the same stupidity. Are people having brain tumors for breakfast?

Be nice.

 

[PeterAlt]

It is one of the top 5 wdw magic topics.

Along with the Yeti
Any other 5th gate talk
disney making a wwhp killer
monorails / transportation

If Disney wanted to spend a lot of money doing market research to see what people want, they could save that money by just coming here. Your post pretty much summarizes what millions of dollars and years of market research would basically say.

 

[PeterAlt]

Disney could trade the world-wide theme park rights to Jar Jar Binks in exchange for the east coast theme park rights to Iron Man with Comcast-Universal. Does Disney really need to hang on to Jar Jar? Seriously, let Universal have him!