Western way park/5th gate

[lego606]

Spider-Man looks like this quite often now... does that render every red and blue suit obsolete? No. There are many many different versions of characters existing concurrently.

You're right there too. Does Ultimate Avengers have any sway over this? As in, can Disney open an Ultimate Avengers attraction as opposed to the Universal-utilized Avengers? (likely knowing full well the average guest won't know the universe difference)

 

[Tim_4]

You're right there too. Does Ultimate Avengers have any sway over this? As in, can Disney open an Ultimate Avengers attraction as opposed to the Universal-utilized Avengers? (likely knowing full well the average guest won't know the universe difference)

No.

Edit: They could try. Then the judge would say "get the hell out."

 

[Captain Chaos]

I'm not saying it couldn't happen, but that would be up to the court to decide. By definition of "family" given in the contract, Wolverine is a member of X-Men who crossed over, but is ultimately an X-Men member, especially in the eyes of the average person in public today. It would be a complicated fight, but there would be arguments to support both ends. I would personally find it very interesting to watch, although it'll never happen.

However, I will agree that X-Men are complicated. Guardians of the Galaxy is not quite as complicated. Thanos, is clearly more known as an Avengers villain (looking at his appearances in the comics). This situation would be as simple as not using him in the theme parks. From what little I've read about the film, he won't be a part of the new film either (which makes sense). This would make it more ripe for Disney to go after and would definitely not be as complicated as Wolverine.

Nothing for a court to decide... Wolverine's "family" cannot be used.. Therefore ALL X-Men characters and Avengers characters are excluded... It is very simple to understand...

 

[lego606]

I'm pulling names out of nowhere here so don't pay attention to whether these are factual or not. (also, ignore the Avengers and X-men names, I just couldn't think of anything else)

So if a character is in Avengers in the regular universe and X-Men in the Ultimate universe, does that mean both versions of both are blocked?

(not a question of fairness, just of "what's the status")

 

[PeterAlt]

Does Disney want Marvel in their theme parks?

My personal gut feeling is, of course they do. Why? Simple, they appear to be a license to print money as all the recent Marvel films are becoming. Disney lurves to make money. By the monorail load. lots of it. Bay lake filled with greenbacks.

Is Disney making money with Marvel at Universal? Sure. Are they making as much as Universal, I don't know, but Iam sure Marvel is in Universal's books and if Universal was making significant revenue more than Disney, Disney would do something about it. Don't believe that? Then apparently you don't see just how smart Iger really is, and lets face it, the guy has turned Disney into a magic mountain of cash that is the talk of the stock world.

Now if Disney really wanted Marvel in all their theme parks, they would have to pay Universal. Contract or not, if Disney wanted it, they would get it. Will they? In our lifetimes I believe so.

How?

Can Universal make an Avengers ride? Not without Disney approval. Think that would happen? Nah.
Can Universal make anything new featuring Marvel characters? Not without Disney approval. Think that will happen? Nah.

Long story short, in my opinion, Universal will outgrow the Marvel license long before Disney has to buy them out simply from the fact the rides will eventually get stale, or Universal will need the land for a license they can either control or an original property they need that land for.

This topic is interesting and I don't think it will ever die, but father time rules all.


Jimmy Thick- Marvel before Carsland at DHS?

Well said. Thank you for posting that. I wish you were around when I had my Marvel Epic Debate Massive thread!

 

[lazyboy97o]

So if a character is in Avengers in the regular universe and X-Men in the Ultimate universe, does that mean both versions of both are blocked?

Probably. No specific Marvel Universe is cited. Also, for those have the discussion of use, associated villains are mentioned in the Exclusivity clause along with the character family.

 

[Prock3]

Nothing for a court to decide... Wolverine's "family" cannot be used.. Therefore ALL X-Men characters and Avengers characters are excluded... It is very simple to understand...

If Disney can establish and get the perception of the Avengers being only Thor, Captain America, Iron Man, The Hulk, Black Widow, and Hawk eye they might have an argument for Wolverine not being in the avengers. I guarantee 95% wouldnt be able to tell you wolverine was in the avengers. Besides Disney can't use wolverine because he does appearances at Uni.

The real question is if the West Coast Avengers would be considered part of the avengers family

 

[Cosmic Commando]

You're right there too. Does Ultimate Avengers have any sway over this? As in, can Disney open an Ultimate Avengers attraction as opposed to the Universal-utilized Avengers? (likely knowing full well the average guest won't know the universe difference)

Any version of the character would be under Uni's exclusive rights; I was just trying to make a point that Disney really can't come in and say "We don't like the way this character looks" or "We don't like this storyline". Uni has done a good job on those things. However, those are specific things mentioned in the contract that Marvel has a right to defend. Disney can't say "Your Spider-Man is not wearing the new belt that we gave him. Close down your ride." The contract would come into play if Disney could say, "You changed Peter Parker from a college student into a fish-like creature. We don't like that. Cut it out."

I'm pulling names out of nowhere here so don't pay attention to whether these are factual or not. (also, ignore the Avengers and X-men names, I just couldn't think of anything else)

So if a character is in Avengers in the regular universe and X-Men in the Ultimate universe, does that mean both versions of both are blocked?

Yes, most likely. It may not sound "fair" to Disney, but Marvel was not thinking about future situations like this when they made their deal.

 

[Captain Chaos]

If Disney can establish and get the perception of the Avengers being only Thor, Captain America, Iron Man, The Hulk, Black Widow, and Hawk eye they might have an argument for Wolverine not being in the avengers. I guarantee 95% wouldnt be able to tell you wolverine was in the avengers. Besides Disney can't use wolverine because he does appearances at Uni.

The real question is if the West Coast Avengers would be considered part of the avengers family

Discussion over:

http://marvel.com/characters/bio/1009165/avengers?nav=1

Universal pulls up MARVEL'S official site, shows Wolverine as part of the Avengers, and judge kicks Disney's out of court... Can't argue with the official sources...

From the site:

Current Members:
Luke Cage, Captain America (Bucky Barnes), Amadeus Cho, Iron Man (Anthony Stark), Jocasta, Mockingbird (Bobbi Morse), Ms. Marvel (Carol Danvers), Quicksilver (Pietro Maximoff), Hawkeye (Clint Barton), Spider–Woman (Jessica Drew), Spider–Man (Peter Parker), Stature (Cassandra Lang), Thor, Vision, Giant–Man (Ant–Man/Giant–Man/Goliath/Yellowjacket, Henry Pym), Wolverine (James Howlett)

 

[Prock3]

Discussion over:

http://marvel.com/characters/bio/1009165/avengers?nav=1

Universal pulls up MARVEL'S official site, shows Wolverine as part of the Avengers, and judge kicks Disney's out of court... Can't argue with the official sources...

From the site:

Current Members:
Luke Cage, Captain America (Bucky Barnes), Amadeus Cho, Iron Man (Anthony Stark), Jocasta, Mockingbird (Bobbi Morse), Ms. Marvel (Carol Danvers), Quicksilver (Pietro Maximoff), Hawkeye (Clint Barton), Spider–Woman (Jessica Drew), Spider–Man (Peter Parker), Stature (Cassandra Lang), Thor, Vision, Giant–Man (Ant–Man/Giant–Man/Goliath/Yellowjacket, Henry Pym), Wolverine (James Howlett)

Like I said they can't use wolverine even if he wasn't in the avengers because he makes appearances at Uni

 

[Tim_4]

If Disney can establish and get the perception of the Avengers being only Thor, Captain America, Iron Man, The Hulk, Black Widow, and Hawk eye they might have an argument for Wolverine not being in the avengers. I guarantee 95% wouldnt be able to tell you wolverine was in the avengers. Besides Disney can't use wolverine because he does appearances at Uni.

The real question is if the West Coast Avengers would be considered part of the avengers family

It doesn't matter if 95% of people don't know that Wolverine was an avenger. The contract says "avengers family," not "public perception of what people think the avengers family is."

The west coast Avengers were all plain old avengers at some point.

 

[Captain Chaos]

Like I said they can't use wolverine even if he wasn't in the avengers because he makes appearances at Uni

And they can't use ANY X-MEN, AVENGERS (wolverine's FAMILY).. why is that so hard for you to understand?

 

[danlb_2000]

Like I said they can't use wolverine even if he wasn't in the avengers because he makes appearances at Uni

They also can't use Wolverine because Uni has an attraction based on Storm so that covers the X-Men.

 

[Tim_4]

Discussion over:

http://marvel.com/characters/bio/1009165/avengers?nav=1

Universal pulls up MARVEL'S official site, shows Wolverine as part of the Avengers, and judge kicks Disney's out of court... Can't argue with the official sources...

From the site:

Current Members:
Luke Cage, Captain America (Bucky Barnes), Amadeus Cho, Iron Man (Anthony Stark), Jocasta, Mockingbird (Bobbi Morse), Ms. Marvel (Carol Danvers), Quicksilver (Pietro Maximoff), Hawkeye (Clint Barton), Spider–Woman (Jessica Drew), Spider–Man (Peter Parker), Stature (Cassandra Lang), Thor, Vision, Giant–Man (Ant–Man/Giant–Man/Goliath/Yellowjacket, Henry Pym), Wolverine (James Howlett)

Technically vision is a robot so not a "member" per se.

 

[Prock3]

And that can't use X-MEN, AVENGERS (wolverine's FAMILY).. why is that so hard for you to understand?

I never said they could use X-men

 

[Sully83]

I disagree slightly. While the contract is very solid, Disney can definitely do other somethings to encourage Uni to the bargaining table if it wanted to....the problem is, they don't want to. So it's a moot point.

However, in the event we were smoking a good deal of the hubris in this thread....I have long-said here that one thing Disney can do is furiously co-brand the Marvel characters @ Uni with the word "Disney."

They've already done it with Pixar. It's no longer Pixar's Toy Story...but Disney-Pixar's Toy Story. No one thinks Pixar isn't anything but a fully owned subsidiary of Disney right now.

If Disney wanted to, it could slap the blue background Cinderella Castle logo right next where it says Marvel on every single capt america doll sold in the world. Same with Thor...same with Hulk...same with *any* character used in Uni-Orlando. Basically resulting in the very merch sold in the IOA having Disney slapped on the box. But more significantly, every Marvel product in the world having Disney in prominence on the box. The monorail wraps would be the tip of the iceberg. Eventually, all of the Marvel product and the IP will be so intrinsically connected to Disney that the reverse of what you stated would be true. Universal will no longer be willing to hand over a competitive advantage to Disney by advertising their logos throughout their parks. Brand identity is very important to the underdog....Disney could easily muddy those waters to their advantage. It would take time and patience (not to mention a team of great lawyers to deflect every legal hurdle thrown in Disney's direction), but it would accomplish this goal.

This is all pipe-dreaming though. Disney has no interest in wrangling these characters away from Marvel. If they did, they wouldn't have pumped 1.5 Billion into magic bands and fast-pass lanes for POTC.

This is actually the best pro marvel type argument that I have seen. Disney would have to do some moving around, because pixar is a division of walt disney studios now just like lucasfilm, where marvel is a llc subsidiary, but that would not be hard. It would be a bargaining chip, I could see universal cutting back though t that point and just going to rides only, then they don't really need the branding logos for that. Good points by you though, the best so far

 

[Captain Chaos]

I never said they could use X-men

Confused you with another poster who insists Disney can use X-MEN, just not Wolverine.. My bad.

 

[Prock3]

It doesn't matter if 95% of people don't know that Wolverine was an avenger. The contract says "avengers family," not "public perception of what people think the avengers family is."

The west coast Avengers were all plain old avengers at some point.

But could they use the West Coast Avengers version of Iron Man, who wasn't Tony Stark it was James Rhodes, better known as War Machine. Is it Iron man if its not Tony Stark? The comic universe is full of crazy ideas, now use those crazy ideas to pull the rights from universal haha!

 

[Tim_4]

But could they use the West Coast Avengers version of Iron Man, who wasn't Tony Stark it was James Rhodes, better known as War Machine. Is it Iron man if its not Tony Stark? The comic universe is full of crazy ideas, now use those crazy ideas to pull the rights from universal haha!

It's not going to happen. It just isn't. People talk about Disney's lawyers but universal has some decent ones too.

 

[Cosmic Commando]

Technically vision is a robot so not a "member" per se.

He is a sentient being! Do you need to watch "Measure of a Man" from Star Trek: TNG?