Spirited News & Observations II -- NGE/Baxter

[the.dreamfinder]

^TDO still disproportionately markets and builds experiences for children under the age of 8 as if they were 60-70 of their total customer base. If I had to guess 4-11 year olds make up a quarter of the WDW guests.

 

[articos]

Found this... I get this strange feeling that TDO marketing has never looked at demographics for it's own resort.

It's fascinating nonetheless.

http://www.olc.co.jp/en/tdr/guest/profile.html

Oh, they have. In exacting detail. Doesn't mean they always make the proper choices surrounding those demo's though.

 

[RyenDeckard]

^TDO still disproportionately markets and builds experiences for children under the age of 8 as if they were 60-70 of their total customer base. If I had to guess 4-11 year olds make up a quarter of the WDW guests.

Children under 8 also don't have jobs or a source of income 99% of the time (god forbid).

But Children under 8 are also pretty able to sway their parents opinion.

Seriously think about MK if it was filled with 60-70% children, they would be mostly unsupervised at that point with a few incredibly frazzled parents running around.

Also let's remember that Japan is very much a single child family nation, and the demographics of japan are wildly different than the US. Tokyo Disneyland also actively markets to the 18-32 year old crowd, with stormchaser, Journey to the Center of the Earth, etc actively catering to thrill seekers.

 

[GoofGoof]

^TDO still disproportionately markets and builds experiences for children under the age of 8 as if they were 60-70 of their total customer base. If I had to guess 4-11 year olds make up a quarter of the WDW guests.

They do market and build specific to that demographic, especially with MK. The number is probably greater than 50% though when you factor in the parents of those kids too. The parents are the ones with the wallets. I do think there is a valuable demographic in adults without children that TDO does not make enough of an effort to reach. I have no issue with MK being more kid centered. It's not like they exclude adults with many rides or attractions that are just for kids and have a maximum height or age. On the flip side they could use an adult only entertainment area...oh yeah they had one and got rid of it. Maybe at least they could have some adult only high end restaurants or bars. It would be nice to know there was somewhere you could go without tripping over a stroller. And this is coming from a guy with 2 kids and one of those double strollers.

 

[Gomer]

^TDO still disproportionately markets and builds experiences for children under the age of 8 as if they were 60-70 of their total customer base. If I had to guess 4-11 year olds make up a quarter of the WDW guests.

Remember that quantity of guests is somewhat meaningless to TDO in comparison to spending potential. A pair of adults on their own will spend significantly less per person in WDW than a pair of adults with their 6 year old. I've done it myself. When I visited the parks in my 20's I went on a dime. Brought in water bottles, limited my souvenir purchases, and stayed in cheap hotels. Now, in my 30's a I have children and more disposable income, I spend many times more because spending on my children to give them a good time is enjoyable to me, whereas spending money on myself in my 20's seemed a waste.

Example: In 2 weeks I will be visiting the parks for a week. 2 children under 9, an aunt 24, my wife and I in our 30's, and 2 grandparents in their 50's. That is a 5:2 ratio of adults to children. But I assure you most spending on WDW properly will be for the kids, even when I start warning the aunt and grandparents that we are skirting the line of spoiling. Because in the end "we're in Disney" and they will want to buy them ice cream, stuffed animals, and useless little light up toys at the parades. That is why Disney covets the children. These five adults (more times than not) will spend more than 5 adults without children.

 

[dupac]

Dropping in to say I'm a firm believer that TDO needs to do more to get the (double income no kids). You know, the kind of people who celebrate birthday month.

 

[BigThunderMatt]

^TDO still disproportionately markets and builds experiences for children under the age of 8 as if they were 60-70 of their total customer base. If I had to guess 4-11 year olds make up a quarter of the WDW guests.

That's what is trendy among the 18-39 set in Japan though. That's the thing. Different culture, different tastes. The 18-39 demographic in the US and how they cater to it is extremely different from how that same demographic in Japan is catered to.

 

[asianway]

Dropping in to say I'm a firm believer that TDO needs to do more to get the (double income no kids). You know, the kind of people who celebrate birthday month.

in general are going to have more money to burn. Add 2.5 kids in and you start nickel and diming and become part of the Walmart brigade.

While spending per guest has been a popular metric thus far, profit per guest is going to be the new measurement...

 

[Darth Sidious]

Disney is being too targeted for a company their size. The reason for that is simply because they don't care that much about P&R. They just want to be good at one demo and improve efficiency. They could create a monster by balancing their demographics and maximizing profits across them all. The problem is that it would require money and effort. Two things they don't want to expend on WDW.

 

[GoofGoof]

in general are going to have more money to burn. Add 2.5 kids in and you start nickel and diming and become part of the Walmart brigade.

While spending per guest has been a popular metric thus far, profit per guest is going to be the new measurement...

Definitely true. Kids are expensive. We had a lot more disposable income before kids. We also did a lot more. We regularly went on 3 or 4 trips a year all over the world. There was a period of over 5 years right before we had kids that we skipped Disney altogether knowing we would be back a lot once we had kids and there were places we wouldn't or couldn't bring young kids. Getting the (love the term) to frequent WDW would be a profitable move for sure.

People with kids are going to eat up the character meals and places like T-Rex which are marketed to kids. There is no reason they can't add more adult dining/entertainment options. Even the highest end restaurants are pretty heavily frequented by parents with kids. I know a lot of people who say their kids are well behaved and they aren't disrupting the other guests so what's the harm, but I do think its OK to have restaurants or bars that are just for adults (at least at night).

 

[George]

Oh, they have. In exacting detail. Doesn't mean they always make the proper choices surrounding those demo's though.

Research shows that no demographic will like Stitch's Great Escape. Thus, we have decided to appease the "nos" and build something just for them.

^TDO still disproportionately markets and builds experiences for children under the age of 8 as if they were 60-70 of their total customer base. If I had to guess 4-11 year olds make up a quarter of the WDW guests.

When I was a teen (turned 13 on 11/82) I thought that 80% of the people in EPCOT were over 60.

Disney is being too targeted for a company their size. The reason for that is simply because they don't care that much about P&R. They just want to be good at one demo and improve efficiency. They could create a monster by balancing their demographics and maximizing profits across them all. The problem is that it would require money and effort. Two things they don't want to expend on WDW.

They used to have more of a cradle to grave philosophy or at least it seemed that way.

 

[Nubs70]

Here is the a snippet of an article from the CEO of Panera Bread:

"JC Penney's former CEO and prior leadership teams failed to position the company for the future and therefore the businesses required a 'heroic' surgery (which almost always fails) by Ron Johnson. In my view, the real failure of any leadership team and any Board is to let a company get into that position in the first place.
I can't say I'm encouraged by the news that Mike Ullman, who led JCP for seven years prior to Johnson's arrival, is back at the helm. Nevertheless, I wish Ullman the best. He's got an enormous challenge ahead of him.
My message: Don’t avoid the inevitable. Be a realist now and innovate while you have the breathing room, the resources, and the credibility with your stakeholders. Do that, and your company will avoid the need for a “radical turnaround” expert in the future."

I see Disney at the beginning stages of putting itself into the position where they will need "heroic surgery."​

 

[PhotoDave219]

Research shows that no demographic will like Stitch's Great Escape. Thus, we have decided to appease the "nos" and build something just for them.

IMO, Disney's "Guest Research" can be skewed to fit exactly what they want it to prove. Its creativity by committee and focus groups, which doesnt work as well as one guy - Think Walt or Lassiter or even Eisner - who can walk into a room and tell you if something works within a minute or two.

For Eisner's faults or even Diet Coke Katzenberger, they knew whether or not something worked instantly.

Example: New Fantasyland. It works in the idea that it is really pretty, when in fact there's not much substance. It needs more and we'll see over the coming year or so if this gamble works when we actually get a ride beyond an omnimover clone. It works on a visual level but its horribly disappointing in the sense of "Thats It?!?" So Does it work? Not yet.

Example 2: Cars Land. Ridiculously detailed, immersive and a bunch of things to do. Guests are left with the "WOW" factor. So does it work? Oh hell yes. (Is it right for Florida? Good question)

 

[luv]

JC Penney should not have stopped mailing out catalogs.

Example: New Fantasyland. It works in the idea that it is really pretty, when in fact there's not much substance. It needs more and we'll see over the coming year or so if this gamble works when we actually get a ride beyond an omnimover clone. It works on a visual level but its horribly disappointing in the sense of "Thats It?!?"

Agreed.

I really like the LM queue and ride, but the rest of it is just pretty. An awful lot of money and time for one new ride, especially since they took one away, which has us breaking even.

We did get an additional Dumbo spinner, but I don't like the looks of the Circusland part (except, maybe, the trash cans.)

Very little substance. I hate to think what they spent on all that.

 

[PhotoDave219]

JC Penney should not have stopped mailing out catalogs.

Agreed.

I really like the LM queue and ride, but the rest of it is just pretty. An awful lot of money and time for one new ride, especially since they took one away, which has us breaking even.

We did get an additional Dumbo spinner, but I don't like the looks of the Circusland part (except, maybe, the trash cans.)

Very little substance. I hate to think what they spent on all that.

Ive heard 300-500 million. Depending on who you ask.

There's hope tho. Tom Skaggs (one of the people rumored to be on the short list for Iger's replacement) is smart enough to ask his kids what they think and if something works.

 

[jt04]

Ive heard 300-500 million. Depending on who you ask.

There's hope tho. Tom Skaggs (one of the people rumored to be on the short list for Iger's replacement) is smart enough to ask his kids what they think and if something works.

Wait until they see Oz. And what might have been.

 

[luv]

Ive heard 300-500 million. Depending on who you ask.

There's hope tho. Tom Skaggs (one of the people rumored to be on the short list for Iger's replacement) is smart enough to ask his kids what they think and if something works.

If they really spent $300 million on that, they should fire every manager in the entire Disney company and just start over. That is insane. They're becoming like politicians, I think. The money is going into their pockets while the result for us is piddling.

That's not good business. That's kickbacks.

 

[PhotoDave219]

If they really spent $300 million on that, they should fire every manager in the entire Disney company and just start over. That is insane. They're becoming like politicians, I think. The money is going into their pockets while the result for us is piddling.

That's not good business. That's kickbacks.

For example...... Manager 1 gets transfered to a different role and Manager 2 comes in. Manager 2 changes everything and in turn gets a bonus for doing a good job. He gets transfered and Manager 3 comes in. Manager 3 changes everything back to the way Manager 1 had things and gets a bonus for doing a good job.

Rinse, lather, repeat, such is the BS of middle management.

 

[Darth Sidious]

Here is the a snippet of an article from the CEO of Panera Bread:

"JC Penney's former CEO and prior leadership teams failed to position the company for the future and therefore the businesses required a 'heroic' surgery (which almost always fails) by Ron Johnson. In my view, the real failure of any leadership team and any Board is to let a company get into that position in the first place.
I can't say I'm encouraged by the news that Mike Ullman, who led JCP for seven years prior to Johnson's arrival, is back at the helm. Nevertheless, I wish Ullman the best. He's got an enormous challenge ahead of him.
My message: Don’t avoid the inevitable. Be a realist now and innovate while you have the breathing room, the resources, and the credibility with your stakeholders. Do that, and your company will avoid the need for a “radical turnaround” expert in the future."

I see Disney at the beginning stages of putting itself into the position where they will need "heroic surgery."​

IDK if they are headed there but in P&R they are. It is only a matter of time before Wall St wants a P&R spinoff, sell off or reorg.

 

[Darth Sidious]

Ive heard 300-500 million. Depending on who you ask.

There's hope tho. Tom Skaggs (one of the people rumored to be on the short list for Iger's replacement) is smart enough to ask his kids what they think and if something works.

I actually don't dislike Tom... he has negatives like them all but I think he has a future as CEO of some company, if not this company ($DIS).