Disney (and others) at the Box Office - Current State of Affairs

[Casper Gutman]

For myself, I honestly don't care that she was cast as snow white as there was very little chance I would see it in the theater anyway. The only thing I have seen her in was Shazam. And she was fine. It was a mediocre film but she wasn't in anyway the reason it wasn't great.

What I can say, is I understand why people who thought she should look close to the original character didn't like the casting. and I don't think everyone who thinks that is flat out racist. The problem in my eyes was so many people were never going to give her a chance because of the things she said. So she could have had a, WOW she was really good in the roll, moment. But that ship most likely sailed with her comments.

You were the third poster to respond in the Snow White thread after Zegler was cast and your post is critical of her choice based on her race.

To reiterate - I am not accusing you of being a racist. I am pointing out that the initial reaction to her casting was almost entirely centered on race. That was the spark that ignited everything that followed.

 

[Wendy Pleakley]

This can’t be great news for Hollywood. Apple has some great shows.

This does speak to the proliferation of streaming and market saturation. It's an important revenue source for studios but it might be hard for some to build a profitable service when going up against established juggernauts like Netflix and Disney.

Streaming has to be lucrative for Disney because they're collecting all revenue instead of licensing shows out.

Apple however, I don't think necessarily is concerned about these numbers. As a company they have almost $100 billion in cash assets on hand. They don't need their streaming service to be profitable any time soon. They can do what they are doing, and that is slowly building a service that is really quality over quantity. The opposite of what Netflix seems to be doing.

They're also heavy on sci-fi shows which will help them build a different audience than other streamers.

It may contribute to brand loyalty.

 

[LittleBuford]

What I can say, is I understand why people who thought she should look close to the original character didn't like the casting.

Zegler is the same complexion as Gadot, and no-one to my knowledge has said the latter is physically miscast as the Evil Queen. Zegler herself identifies as a white Latina.

 

[WorldExplorer]

Saw this-

"Snow White doesn’t include one of the animated original’s most famous songs, “Someday My Prince Will Come,”"

SERIOUSLY?

Screw this film. That song is iconic and for them to omit it they deserve to lose every penny and more.

They cut the Prince entirely, wrote their own character to replace him, and made their own songs.

They also changed Snow White to a completely different person.

And openly bashed on the dwarves before the film dropped.

And decided to add EIGHT (enough to be the cast of a whole other film) original characters to this film that already had ten to fill the screen time.

But, you know, don't take that to mean they don't respect the original just because they clearly want to make a different movie than their source material. Pretend it's just an adaptation of the fairy tale and ignore the blatant Disney-specific iconography that cements it as specifically a Disney remake.

Some people on here have been going on about "You're not a 10 year old girl so this film isn't for you"



This was my great grandmother's favorite movie. This is the movie her and my great aunt watched on her deathbed. It meant everything to her, it meant everything to my great aunt, and being my great aunt was the one who Disneyfied me, it holds a very special place for me. So don't try to tell this 'not a 10 year old girl' how I can feel.



This bastardization deserves what it gets.

The idea that companies are using these old movies/franchises solely to appeal to a new audience of small children is nonsense and I don't understand how so many people come to this conclusion.

Aside from Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs being a great film that adults can enjoy, like five generations have grown up with it, nostalgia is a huge business, and Disney knows that.


I don't have a story quite to match yours, but I can say that my sister is a full grown adult, loves Snow White, loves the Cinderella remake, and absolutely would have bought tickets to this if every new bit of information didn't cement that it sounded like garbage that hated its source material.

 

[Chi84]

They cut the Prince entirely

His entire role?! How much cutting did that involve?

 

[LittleBuford]

And openly bashed on the dwarves before the film dropped.

What does this refer to?

 

[Casper Gutman]

Why is it racist when people are upset that a character doesn’t look like we expect? I don’t recall people saying Hawaiians are racist when many thought the Hawaiian actor hired to play Nani wasn’t dark enough, I don’t recall racist being thrown around when people were upset Disney didn’t cast Ving Rhames for Cobra… why is it racist to be upset when they take a character we know and love and then don’t cast people who look like the character we know and love?

It probably has something to do with the long history of discrimination in the US in general and the culture industry specifically.

Also, nobody real “looks like” an animated character. Snow White in the cartoon is ink on a cel, not flesh and bone. That’s the biggest difference between two characters imaginable. The problem is that there are only a few ways that a character can “look different” that launch a firestorm.

 

[Vegas Disney Fan]

If someone has a problem with a casting choice based on merit (talent, acting, singing) that's fair, but if it's based on skin color, then yes, that's racism. I'm not going to sugarcoat it just because we're Disney fans.

Why is it racist when people are upset that a character doesn’t look like we expect? I don’t recall people saying Hawaiians are racist when many thought the Hawaiian actor hired to play Nani wasn’t dark enough, I don’t recall racist being thrown around when people were upset Disney didn’t cast Ving Rhames for Cobra… why is it racist to be upset when they take a character we know and love and then don’t cast people who look like the character we know and love?

If they remade Soul tomorrow and cast Ed Sheeran to play Joe the whole world, including myself, would be mad. Ed Sheeran is more than talented enough to play the piano and sing the songs but he’d never be Joe to me.

 

[LittleBuford]

Why is it only racist when white people are upset when a character doesn’t look like we expect? I don’t recall people saying Hawaiians are racist when many thought the Hawaiian actor hired to play Nani wasn’t dark enough, I don’t recall racist being thrown around when people were upset Disney didn’t cast Ving Rhames for Cobra… why is it racist to be upset when they take a character we know and love and then don’t cast people who look like the character we know and love?

But plenty of live-action characters don’t look like their cartoon counterparts. Emma Stone is obviously very far from the animated Cruella, and Elle Fanning really doesn’t look much like Aurora. That no-one raised any objections (at least on the basis of appearance) to their casting shows that it’s really ethnicity rather than resemblance that is the key factor here.

Regarding your broader point, there’s a long history around issues of representation that I think explains all too well why people of colour are entitled to react differently to instances of “race swapping” than those who objected to the casting of Bailey or Zegler. Your asking where that difference lies is analogous to someone asking why there’s no Straight Pride.

 

[MagicMouseFan]

If someone has a problem with a casting choice based on merit (talent, acting, singing) that's fair, but if it's based on skin color, then yes, that's racism. I'm not going to sugarcoat it just because we're Disney fans.

I disagree and since I’m assuming this was directed at me I’ll respond. Nothing in this world is black and white. There is nuance in everything.

I support representation and visibility in films and TV. I love the 2023 Wonka film. developing the characters of Slugworth (Paterson Joseph) and his daughter Noodle (Calah Lane). It felt organic, original and just worked.

I’m sorry, I do have an issue with casting Halle Bailey as Ariel, not with Halle but with Disney’s decisions in general. It seemed like a trick and something superfluous, just as when Coca Cola came up with New Coke and replaced Classic Coke. New Coke was not a bad product; it was just pointless to me and ended up backfiring for Coke.

To me, changing the appearance of Ariel seemed like Disney trying to get the best of both worlds: making some changes for the marketing purpose without creating real innovative and substantial content that would actually embrace the diversity.

Maybe I will feel different if they make an original Ariel sequel with Bailey with new music, new story.
So Disney needs to get working on that.

For now, the casting decision seemed inorganic, contrived, rather than organic inclusion. Disney is one of the largest and most resourceful studios in the world, and it is easy (nothing is easy) for them to come up with new and exciting stories and characters that will capture the hearts of the public. I think the audience can tell when something is not real and will react accordingly.
Real inclusion needs more than just a gimmick and that comes with risk. Tell me the third episode of "The Last of us” didn’t work. It was a great side story inside the Last of us world.

Again I’m not big on these exact remakes. Lilo and Stich looks exactly like original cartoon… we have already seen it. Disney couldn’t make it a new adventure?

 

[Vegas Disney Fan]

Odd that my editing and adding a paragraph changed the post order, my point still stands though, if we’re ever going to reach true equality we have to be held to the same standards, if it’s racist for one group it should be racist for all groups.

I also don’t discredit the massive historical disparity, I just think it’s odd that everyone wants equality, but only in certain situations.

 

[Casper Gutman]

But plenty of live-action characters don’t look like their cartoon counterparts. Emma Stone is obviously very far from the animated Cruella, and Elle Fanning really doesn’t look much like Aurora. That no-one raised any objections (at least on the basis of appearance) to their casting shows that it’s really ethnicity rather than resemblance that is the key factor here.

Regarding your broader point, there’s a long history around issues of representation that I think explains all too well why people of colour are entitled to react differently to instances of “race swapping” than those who objected to the casting of Berry or Zegler. Your asking where that difference lies is analogous to someone asking why there’s no Straight Pride.

Well put.

It’s also worth adding that Hollywood is entirely dependent on milking IPs from decades ago with remakes, sequels, etc. A great many of these IPs originated in a period when minorities were heavily marginalized in media. Given this, insisting that minorities cannot be cast in “white roles” is a way, intentionally or not, to continue the marginalization that defined the era in which the IP originated.

 

[LittleBuford]

Well put.

It’s also worth adding that Hollywood is entirely dependent on milking IPs from decades ago with remakes, sequels, etc. A great many of these IPs originated in a period when minorities were heavily marginalized in media. Given this, insisting that minorities cannot be cast in “white roles” is a way, intentionally or not, to continue the marginalization that defined the era in which the IP originated.

That’s a really compelling point, especially given how often we’re asked why studios don’t just create new stories for characters of colour.

 

[Casper Gutman]

I also don’t discredit the massive historical disparity, I just think it’s odd that everyone wants equality, but only in certain situations.

This is a tremendously complex topic, but culture, government, etc. have momentum. I explained above one reason this is true of franchise filmmaking. We can’t just say “everyone’s equal now,” and that becomes true. It takes a lot of work.

There are also a lot of people eager to use the idea of being “colorblind” to perpetuate discrimination. Setting those bad faith individuals aside, even the best of us aren’t always very good at recognizing our own biases and prejudices. That’s just being human. Again, simply declaring that discrimination is over doesn’t make it so.

 

[Disney Irish]

This does speak to the proliferation of streaming and market saturation. It's an important revenue source for studios but it might be hard for some to build a profitable service when going up against established juggernauts like Netflix and Disney.

Streaming has to be lucrative for Disney because they're collecting all revenue instead of licensing shows out.

Apple however, I don't think necessarily is concerned about these numbers. As a company they have almost $100 billion in cash assets on hand. They don't need their streaming service to be profitable any time soon. They can do what they are doing, and that is slowly building a service that is really quality over quantity. The opposite of what Netflix seems to be doing.

They're also heavy on sci-fi shows which will help them build a different audience than other streamers.

It may contribute to brand loyalty.

AppleTV+ is an add-on to all their other services, its not meant to be a standalone service unlike Netflix or Disney+. Just like Amazon they have a locked in customer base that they don't care if you use the service or not. So just like Amazon it profitability is secondary to their main goal which is to get and keep users into their ecosystem once they buy an iDevice.

 

[donaldtoo]

@Vegas Disney Fan , don’t even bother anymore.
If you’re white and not feeling guilty about some race-related thing, even if you or your family never had anything to do with such, then you’re not guilty-white enough…!!!

 

[Casper Gutman]

That’s a really compelling point, especially given how often we’re asked why studios don’t just create new stories for characters of colour.

The last original live-action IP to take off was what? John Wick in 2014?

 

[Casper Gutman]

@Vegas Disney Fan , don’t even bother anymore.
If you’re white and not feeling guilty about some race-related thing, even if you or your family never had anything to do with such, then you’re not guilty-white enough…!!!

Who wants anyone to feel guilty?

 

[donaldtoo]

Who wants anyone to feel guilty?

Hmmmmmmmm…?!
I’m done here.

 

[Chi84]

@Vegas Disney Fan , don’t even bother anymore.
If you’re white and not feeling guilty about some race-related thing, even if you or your family never had anything to do with such, then you’re not guilty-white enough…!!!

That’s a pretty simplistic comment given the complexity and sincerity of the discussion by all parties thus far.