Disney (and others) at the Box Office - Current State of Affairs

[Ghost93]

I know this is a bunch of pages back, but I am in agreement with this and will take it farther.

I like my entertainment to be a form of escapism and I hate the trend of making bad guys "misunderstood" or good guys having significant flaws. I'm much more a fan of characters being more explicitly "good" or "evil" and for a conflict to be one side you clearly want to root for and have that side "win".

I mean I'm fine with giving a villain a backstory or reason why they are evil, but they should be clearly in the wrong. Similarly, I'm okay for the hero to start off less good and have some redemption or development, but by the time they are the protagonist, I like them to be unequivocally on the side of being right.

I actually have a big problem with shows where the main characters are basically jerks or mean or hurtful people. If I'm investing in a show, I want to be able to root for the main characters and hope they succeed not be disappointed in their actions.

Sorry for my simple mindset, but I hate the trend that so much in entertainment has to have characters that are "nuanced". There's a place for it, but I feel the trend has pushed too far in that direction where it has invaded most films and shows.

For a long time I wondered why this trend of reframing the villain as a hero didn't bother me with Wicked and why it did for Maleficent and Cruella. And I think I finally figured it out!

Wicked (the movie) is made by an entirely different company from the film studio that made the classic 1939 The Wizard of Oz and the author of the Wicked novel is not the same author as the original Oz books. As a result, I think of it as more of a fun alternate take of a classic story rather than an attempt to erase the legacy of the original. It can be viewed as a glorified fan fiction.

But when the Disney company itself remakes its own works with a revisionist spin, it feels like the company is trying to replace the original classics with the new live-action versions. And in an attempt to justify the existence of the live-action versions, the PR people at Disney will go out of their way to point out alleged flaws and problematic elements with the animated classics to justify the need for the live action remakes. They put down the classics to prop the new movies up.

Most people don't feel Wicked is putting down the Wizard of Oz because MGM Studios isn't ranting about how problematic it is that Margaret Hamilton's version of the Wicked Witch of the West is portrayed as pure evil and has no character depth.

 

[LittleBuford]

For a long time I wondered why this trend of reframing the villain as a hero didn't bother me with Wicked and why it did for Maleficent and Cruella. And I think I finally figured it out!

Wicked (the movie) is made by an entirely different company from the film studio that made the classic 1939 The Wizard of Oz and the author of the Wicked novel is not the same author as the original Oz books. As a result, I think of it as more of a fun alternate take of a classic story rather than an attempt to erase the legacy of the original. It can be viewed as a glorified fan fiction.

But when the Disney company itself remakes its own works with a revisionist spin, it feels like the company is trying to replace the original classics with the new live-action versions. And in an attempt to justify the existence of the live-action versions, the PR people at Disney will go out of their way to point out alleged flaws and problematic elements with the animated classics to justify the need for the live action remakes. They put down the classics to prop the new movies up.

Most people don't feel Wicked is putting down the Wizard of Oz because MGM Studios isn't ranting about how problematic it is that Margaret Hamilton's version of the Wicked Witch of the West is portrayed as pure evil and has no character depth.

I disagree. For me, Maleficent and Cruella are to the original animated films what Wicked is to The Wizard of Oz: fun alternative takes that can be enjoyed in their own right without reshaping one’s impressions of the earlier films. I really don’t get the claim that Disney is putting down the animated classics. If that were so, why do most portrayals of Maleficent and Cruella in the parks and in merch remain true to their original, evil characterisations?

ETA: Also, how is Disney “ranting” about these characters being problematic in their original forms?

 

[Ghost93]

I disagree. For me, Maleficent and Cruella are to the original animated films what Wicked is to The Wizard of Oz: fun alternative takes that can be enjoyed in their own right without reshaping one’s impressions of the earlier films. I really don’t get the claim that Disney is putting down the animated classics. If that were so, why do most portrayals of Maleficent and Cruella in the parks and in merch remain true to their original, evil characterisations?

I have somewhat come around Maleficient in recent years after being appalled by the creative bankruptcy of an almost shot-for-shot remake like 2019's The Lion King. However, back in 2014, I hated the movie as it was not at all what I wanted out of a Maleficent movie.

I do think Cruella is a legitimately good film, but it is a COMPLETELY different character from the one in 101 Dalmatians.

 

[Disney Irish]

I know this is a bunch of pages back, but I am in agreement with this and will take it farther.

I like my entertainment to be a form of escapism and I hate the trend of making bad guys "misunderstood" or good guys having significant flaws. I'm much more a fan of characters being more explicitly "good" or "evil" and for a conflict to be one side you clearly want to root for and have that side "win".

I mean I'm fine with giving a villain a backstory or reason why they are evil, but they should be clearly in the wrong. Similarly, I'm okay for the hero to start off less good and have some redemption or development, but by the time they are the protagonist, I like them to be unequivocally on the side of being right.

I actually have a big problem with shows where the main characters are basically jerks or mean or hurtful people. If I'm investing in a show, I want to be able to root for the main characters and hope they succeed not be disappointed in their actions.

Sorry for my simple mindset, but I hate the trend that so much in entertainment has to have characters that are "nuanced". There's a place for it, but I feel the trend has pushed too far in that direction where it has invaded most films and shows.

The problem is that many enjoy rooting for the bad guy and like when they are more grounded in reality and nuanced. This is the reason why many shows that were mentioned by other poster where the main protagonist is clearly bad but many times for good reasons are now seen as classics like Sopranos and Breaking Bad.

The world isn't black and white, and while some don't like to be reminded of that, many more accept they live in the grey area and struggle every day and so like to see themselves up on screen.

 

[LittleBuford]

I do think Cruella is a legitimately good film, but it is a COMPLETELY different character from the one in 101 Dalmatians.

Indeed. But the same goes for Elpheba and the live-action Maleficent in relation to their earlier counterparts.

 

[doctornick]

The problem is that many enjoy rooting for the bad guy and like when they are more grounded in reality and nuanced. This is the reason why many shows that were mentioned by other poster where the main protagonist is clearly bad but many times for good reasons are now seen as classics like Sopranos and Breaking Bad.

The world isn't black and white, and while some don't like to be reminded of that, many more accept they live in the grey area and struggle every day and so like to see themselves up on screen.

I certainly have no problem with people enjoying it, but it most certainly is not for me.

My issue is more that it is leaking into everything and you don't really get much if any straightforward good versus evil stories anymore. Everything seems to need to have nuance and respecting the villain or bringing down the hero or making endings that have indifference instead of good "triumphing". I feel like that should have a place as well but such black and white tales have been greatly reduced in mainstream entertainment.

 

[Disney Irish]

I certainly have no problem with people enjoying it, but it most certainly is not for me.

My issue is more that it is leaking into everything and you don't really get much if any straightforward good versus evil stories anymore. Everything seems to need to have nuance and respecting the villain or bringing down the hero or making endings that have indifference instead of good "triumphing". I feel like that should have a place as well but such black and white tales have been greatly reduced in mainstream entertainment.

As with everything in Hollywood there are ebbs and flows. For a long time it was only good vs evil stories, I mean practically for 75+ years that is all there was until the late 90s when it started to move to more nuanced stories that you see now. So its having its time in the sun for now and will swing back the other direction in time as new storytellers start to tell their stories.

 

[TP2000]

How was everyone's Thanksgiving weekend? We're finally back with a big blockbuster movie from Disney to track in this thread!

Here's how Moana 2 stands compared to inflation adjusted Princessy remakes of the past few years, plus the gorilla in the room The Lion King remake from '19. Since it was supposed to just be an ABC Sunday Night Movie Disney+ streaming show, the budget for Moana 2 was an impressively low $150 Million, which is going to make getting it to profitability easy and fast for Burbank. They've got to be thrilled with that after the past few years!

Using the tried and true template of studio's averaging 60% of the box office take from domestic theaters, and 40% of the take from foreign theaters, and assuming a modest marketing budget of 50% of production budget, that gets us this current standing at the Box Office for Moana 2:

Moana 2: $150 Production, $75 Marketing, $135 Domestic Take, $66 Foreign Take = $24 Million Loss So Far

I'd imagine Moana 2 will go into the black and start making Burbank profit by this Friday evening, globally. Will it do the huge Billion+ box office of Beauty & The Beast or The Lion King? It doesn't seem to be on that type of track, but it's clearly already more successful than other live action Princessy remakes like Cinderella or Maleficent.

Moana 2 will make a tidy profit for Disney, and that's important! Off we go into December tracking...

Wish I could remember who or when we had the conversation that I thought Moana had become just as if not bigger than Frozen recently… based on how much it’s blowing frozen 2 out of the water, I stand by that conviction.

I got several little girls dressed as Moana on my front entry this past Halloween. Plus a gaggle of the usuals; Cinderella, Belle and Miss White. I didn't get a single Frozen girl this year, now that you mention it. I hadn't pieced that together as I made my post trick-or-treat martini on the 31st, until you just mentioned it! There's clearly been a pop-culture shift on Frozen amongst that young girl demographic.

Moana 2 (2024) - Box Office and Financial Information

Financial analysis of Moana 2 (2024) including production budget, domestic and international box office gross, DVD and Blu-ray sales reports.

www.the-numbers.com

 

[BrianLo]

I got several little girls dressed as Moana on my front entry this past Halloween. Plus a gaggle of the usuals; Cinderella, Belle and Miss White. I didn't get a single Frozen girl this year, now that you mention it. I hadn't pieced that together as I made my post trick-or-treat martini on the 31st, until you just mentioned it! There's clearly been a pop-culture shift on Frozen amongst that young girl demographic.

I’m aware of a few Halloween frozen toddlers, but the metric is shifting to Moana and Frozen a very close runner up. I think this second film will cement that until the Frozen sequels bring it back to the lime light.

The parks are sleeping on Moana outside of entertainment.

 

[BrianLo]

The direct-to-video sequels were done by Disney Toon Studios, not WDAS proper. Their sequels to date:

The Rescuers Down Under
Fantasia 2000
Winnie the Pooh (2011)
Ralph Breaks the Internet
Frozen 2
Moana 2*

+ the upcoming Zootopia 2 and Frozen 3 and 4

Having said that, I hope future sequels turn out better than their last 3

I’m actually feeling pretty positive on Zootopia 2. Since we live in sequel land now, I wouldn’t mind a Big Hero 6 sequel.

 

[Disney Irish]

I’m actually feeling pretty positive on Zootopia 2. Since we live in sequel land now, I wouldn’t mind a Big Hero 6 sequel.

The BH6 series was basically the sequel, but I agree we need more of it.

 

[Animaniac93-98]

I’m actually feeling pretty positive on Zootopia 2. Since we live in sequel land now, I wouldn’t mind a Big Hero 6 sequel.

Big Hero 6 is the one Disney movie from the past 10 years that actually justifies a sequel...so of course we get series instead

 

[Disney Analyst]

 

[LittleBuford]

We're finally back with a big blockbuster movie from Disney to track in this thread!

We were there already with Inside Out 2 and Deadpool & Wolverine.

 

[Disney Irish]

We were there already with Inside Out 2 and Deadpool & Wolverine.

Forgive him, he hasn't been paying attention for reasons. Easy to miss several of the highest grossing movies of all time, for animation and R rated movie respectively.

 

[Disney Analyst]

 

[TP2000]

We were there already with Inside Out 2 and Deadpool & Wolverine.

Well, true, but that was after a very difficult and unprofitable few years at the box office.

This feels like things are almost back to normal; where Disney pumps out tentpole after tentpole (up next; The Lion King 5) that does boffo at the box office with ease and grace, each with an endcap in the Target toy department. If not a Happy Meal.

At least until Snow White in March.

 

[LittleBuford]

Well, true, but that was after a very difficult and unprofitable few years at the box office.

I merely responded to what you actually wrote.

 

[BrianLo]

Well, true, but that was after a very difficult and unprofitable few years at the box office.

One year, it really was only 2023. There’s a lot of mental math needed to ignore 2022’s Avatar 2, Thor 4, Doctor Strange MoM and Wakanda Forever.

Only WDAS has been fairly bumpy with a two flop run until now and Star Wars of course non existent. Pixar actually has been fairly consistent with one exception in 2023. Same with Marvel. 20th has been shockingly consistent and then Disney Live Action a veritable train wreck of phoned in remakes as it has more or less been for a decade under Alan.

 

[Chi84]

I just saw the new Snow White trailer and it looks great. Are they running it before Moana 2?

I showed it to my husband and he wants to see it even though he has no interest in Disney movies. Cheers to the Evil Queen!