News 'Beyond Big Thunder Mountain' Blue Sky concept revealed for Magic Kingdom

[wdrive]

Either way, would not have been worth the time and money to build.

I beg to differ. The Lion King and Nemo shows in AK and Beauty and the Beast and Indiana Jones in HS take thousands of guests a day

 

[UNCgolf]

This is all correct, but MK is always the most visited. It has been for decades.

It's always had the most to do, too. It's not like it having far more to do than the other parks is new.

I'm pretty sure EPCOT and MK's attendance was pretty close in the 1980s -- MK had more, but not significantly more. EPCOT has been significantly diminished since then, though, and even with the recent money spent it still doesn't offer the capacity of the older version.

DHS was opened as a half day park and it's never moved beyond being one. DAK was opened as a half day park too, and while they've made some good additions there, it's still lacking overall.

They've built 3 parks since the MK opened. EPCOT is the only one that was ever remotely comparable in terms of content.

 

[MagicHappens1971]

Either way, would not have been worth the time and money to build.

It would’ve been a people eater, and something different to do. TDO doesn’t like to spend money on entertainment though

 

[JD80]

I beg to differ. The Lion King and Nemo shows in AK and Beauty and the Beast and Indiana Jones in HS take thousands of guests a day

That's great and I would welcome any addition to the parks as a fan. But thinking about this from a Ops point of view - shows are expensive to operate and just look how Rogers did in DLR.

If we're deciding on how to spend CapEx at MK, they need to spend money on attractions with high capacity throughput per hour and not expensive shows that may or may not end early or theatres that stay empty inbetween shows.

 

[MR.Dis]

This is all correct, but MK is always the most visited. It has been for decades.

It’s also about the castle, and the “classic” factor. Magic Kingdom is “Disney” to a lot of people.

But as you mentioned with Tron, the other parks have the same issues. Epcot needs to fix Figment and do something with the WoL pavilion. DHS needs to do something with Animation Courtyard. DAK is probably the only park that needs “pure” expansion.

It’s not really about making it more attractive, it’s about adding capacity. While I agree there is a lack of food service it is partly because Disney would rather keep places closed. Lack of restrooms? I don’t think I’ve ever encountered that. The hub and post firework jam is an issue, I concur. Unfortunately Disney laid their bed with that one, there is no other way to get out of the park. Adding more trains, and more reliable service could ease some congestion there. If they could build a new entrance to MK in the back of the park, that would be amazing, but not really practical, and ruins the “reveal” that Walt wanted in castle parks.

Yes, the Magic Kingdom always has had the highest number of guests---could it be that it also has more than double the number of attractions as any other WDW resorts??? I am not against expanding MK, all for it. BUT please lets get more attractions at the other parks. AK is my wife's favorite, but right now has 7 "rides" and 4 shows (5 if you count the projection on the tree of light). So am I going to spend my money on MK with 20 rides and 7 shows or AK? The options at Hollywood studios are not much better than AK, with Epcot a little bit better than AK and Hollywood but not at level of MK. I would like to be able to have significant rides/attractions increase in All the parks. That has always been my argument against a 5th gate, the gates you have now are not fully developed, which is sad when you remember the last one opened in the 1990's.

 

[Surferboy567]

That's great and I would welcome any addition to the parks as a fan. But thinking about this from a Ops point of view - shows are expensive to operate and just look how Rogers did in DLR.

If we're deciding on how to spend CapEx at MK, they need to spend money on attractions with high capacity throughput per hour and not expensive shows that may or may not end early or theatres that stay empty inbetween shows.

Roger’s is an awful example (that no one really wanted) how about we use something like Aladdin. Which lasted from 2003 to 2016, I had the pleasure of seeing it once and it was a great show. Would love to see a Broadway type show in MK.

Frozen was also pretty good and admittedly it wasn’t as good as Aladdin but was still a decent show. Lasting from 2016 all the way up until 2020. Another show I had the pleasure of seeing.

I agree though, the resort needs rides over anything right now. Shows can work though if done right.

 

[BrianLo]

Its infrastructure to accommodate more guests is already bursting at the seams with the hub at capacity for the fireworks, the log jam of the monorail and ferries, the lack of food service, the lack of restrooms.

The new lands would partially add some of that, no? Coco I would have expected to have a sizeable (and maybe actually good) food options. There's a huge opportunity for the villains castle to be oriented in such a way that it could be a secondary fireworks viewing location.

I don't think it's about attracting more guests to MK, but regardless of how you cut it, more guests to WDW as whole lead to more guests to MK. So MK might as well have the space to spread them out.

DHS to me is the park that feels the most bursting at the seems right now. But I guess they are hoping to initially make all the other parks more attractive and then swing back to it.

 

[lazyboy97o]

That's great and I would welcome any addition to the parks as a fan. But thinking about this from a Ops point of view - shows are expensive to operate and just look how Rogers did in DLR.

If we're deciding on how to spend CapEx at MK, they need to spend money on attractions with high capacity throughput per hour and not expensive shows that may or may not end early or theatres that stay empty inbetween shows.

Those big, high capacity attractions are the sort of thing that induces more demand.

A big, high capacity theater will not induce the same sort of demand.

 

[wdrive]

That's great and I would welcome any addition to the parks as a fan. But thinking about this from a Ops point of view - shows are expensive to operate and just look how Rogers did in DLR.

If we're deciding on how to spend CapEx at MK, they need to spend money on attractions with high capacity throughput per hour and not expensive shows that may or may not end early or theatres that stay empty inbetween shows.

Isn’t Rogers supposed to be coming back? If WDW management was really that against live shows none would have returned post Covid. We’re even getting a new Mermaid show in HS.

Shows are also way cheaper than new attractions to build

 

[fgmnt]

Those big, high capacity attractions are the sort of thing that induces more demand.

A big, high capacity theater will not induce the same sort of demand.

This was the thinking when they announced the Main Starter Theater what… 7 years ago? Longer? Was a specific hang up cited on here as to why they did not follow through?

I had always thought they just didn’t have the confidence they could direct guests there consistently.

 

[MagicHappens1971]

This was the thinking when they announced the Main Starter Theater what… 7 years ago? Longer? Was a specific hang up cited on here as to why they did not follow through? 8
I had always thought they just didn’t have the confidence they could direct guests there consistently.

Disney has not/will never officially comment. I believe the reason reported was that the “ground was not suitable” to build on….. this makes zero sense that Disney wouldn’t have known that, but anyways. Other “reported” reasons were that Park Managers didn’t want to loose their parking spots….

 

[wdrive]

This was the thinking when they announced the Main Starter Theater what… 7 years ago? Longer? Was a specific hang up cited on here as to why they did not follow through? 8
I had always thought they just didn’t have the confidence they could direct guests there consistently.

They manage to direct guests to all sorts of far corners of parks to watch shows. Right by the entrance of the busiest theme park in the world would have no trouble I would presume.

 

[fgmnt]

Disney has not/will never officially comment. I believe the reason reported was that the “ground was not suitable” to build on….. this makes zero sense that Disney wouldn’t have known that, but anyways. Other “reported” reasons were that Park Managers didn’t want to loose their parking spots….

I should have been clear in that a reason for cancellation would come from a reliable source /on here/; the company could build a 5th gate out of announced and silently cancelled projects.

 

[MagicHappens1971]

I should have been clear in that a reason for her cancellation would come from a reliable source /on here/; the company could build a 5th gate out of announced and silently cancelled projects.

Yes. I understood what you were saying. I believe the answers I gave were reported on here by “insiders”, but I can’t remember for sure. It’s been years

 

[SpectreJordan]

Trying not to type out a 2000 word armchair imagineer post, so I'll use bullet points in an attempt not to write a wall of text.

• People are drawn to MK because it's the castle park with an extremely popular fireworks show.
  • You get both people there to tour the park and people hopping there just for fireworks.
• None of the parks are advertised like Magic Kingdom. That castle is on everything. In order to draw a significant amount of people away from that, you'll need 2-3 more Galaxy Edges (not strictly Star Wars but lands with that level of immersion). MK doesn't have immersive lands with a single theme. DHS needs to be that park.
• EPCOT has it's own draw because of Festivals and Music, but I don't think it'll draw any more people away from MK. It'll be curious to see once communicore is complete and the entertainment factor is done, if it sees an increase in attendance. Not sure how to expand EPCOT further at this point.
• Animal Kingdom just needs more and a night time draw. This has been discuss ad nauseum.

My point is that MK just needs more because it's nearly impossible to draw people away because it's THE castle park. You will either need to build another castle park or add a castle somewhere else to give a place where you get the same feels.

The only way I can see that happening is if DHS goes all out and adds 2-3 heavily themed lands and it feels like you're moving from universe to universe. The park is a mess from a design point of view so it'll never happen.

I definitely agree with this. They've done half of that already, but they seem to think the job is done. I think the addition of Galaxy's Edge sets up DHS to be the "number 2" but they have to keep investing in it.

Like you said, I don't think there's anything they can ever to do stop MK's crowding issues though. That is THE theme park for most people in the world; when people think of Disney World, they think of Magic Kingdom & that castle. The only thing Disney can do is try to alleviate the crowds by a bit.

 

[JD80]

Isn’t Rogers supposed to be coming back? If WDW management was really that against live shows none would have returned post Covid. We’re even getting a new Mermaid show in HS.

Shows are also way cheaper than new attractions to build

I assume Capex and op ex are different buckets which is what it comes down too.

 

[wdrive]

I assume Capex and op ex are different buckets which is what it comes down too.

True but again if they weren’t worth the money to run the theatres they already have would be sitting empty.

 

[doctornick]

Those big, high capacity attractions are the sort of thing that induces more demand.

A big, high capacity theater will not induce the same sort of demand.

Honestly, more rides like Mermaid would also help MK. High capacity, something to do, but not a draw on their own.

 

[MagicHappens1971]

I should have been clear in that a reason for cancellation would come from a reliable source /on here/; the company could build a 5th gate out of announced and silently cancelled projects.

I’ve been skimming through the thread where it was announced and then cancelled. So it seems the parking lot thing may have been true. Doesn’t really matter anyway….

It's not just upper management, that parking lot is used by maintenances vehicles, service trucks, VIP tours, mid-level managers who are over there for a meeting, etc. There's a massive lack of back of house space at Magic Kingdom, compared to the other parks, so that's one of the times support needs trumped guest needs.

 

[MisterPenguin]

Honestly, more rides like Mermaid would also help MK. High capacity, something to do, but not a draw on their own.

Yeah, attractions people would rather not ride will certainly lessen the problem of the park being too popular!!