News 'Beyond Big Thunder Mountain' Blue Sky concept revealed for Magic Kingdom

[Indy_UK]

They are not going to build a 5th park so the whole ‘beyond thunder mountain’ needs to be the Villians land. They demand and upsells they could get from that would be insane

 

[yensidtlaw1969]

They are not going to build a 5th park so the whole ‘beyond thunder mountain’ needs to be the Villians land. They demand and upsells they could get from that would be insane

You're definitely right about the first part - a 5th Gate for WDW really, really is not on the docket, no matter what anyone else wants to believe.

Personally, I think if they're dead set on expanding the Magic Kingdom (which I *don't* think should be #1 Priority for WDW expansion), a Villains Land is likely the best bet creatively, thematically, experientially, and financially. At least of the "Beyond Big Thunder" pitches I've heard so far.

If nothing else, Halloween is well on its way towards becoming the most lucrative season at WDW. A full, rich, committed Villains Land at Magic Kingdom could really put things over the top there.

 

[Sir_Cliff]

You're definitely right about the first part - a 5th Gate for WDW really, really is not on the docket, no matter what anyone else wants to believe.

Personally, I think if they're dead set on expanding the Magic Kingdom (which I *don't* think should be #1 Priority for WDW expansion), a Villains Land is likely the best bet creatively, thematically, experientially, and financially. At least of the "Beyond Big Thunder" pitches I've heard so far.

If nothing else, Halloween is well on its way towards becoming the most lucrative season at WDW. A full, rich, committed Villains Land at Magic Kingdom could really put things over the top there.

I'm not sure I am as enthusiastic about the prospect of a villains land as most people, but one thing that makes me root for this proposal over the others that have been mentioned so far is that at least it's not based on a single IP. More than the IP-mandate, it is the construction of entire lands based on single film franchises that I think will end up being the biggest albatross around the parks' neck from the Iger era in the decades to come as those franchises fade in relevance and new IPs emerge that can't be incorporated into lands so specifically focussed on different IPs.

So, if we end up with a villains land at MK and a Tropical Americas land at AK rather than, say, Zootopia Land and Encanto Land, I'll take it!

 

[yensidtlaw1969]

I'm not sure I am as enthusiastic about the prospect of a villains land as most people, but one thing that makes me root for this proposal over the others that have been mentioned so far is that at least it's not based on a single IP. More than the IP-mandate, it is the construction of entire lands based on single film franchises that I think will end up being the biggest albatross around the parks' neck from the Iger era in the decades to come as those franchises fade in relevance and new IPs emerge that can't be incorporated into lands so specifically focussed on different IPs.

So, if we end up with a villains land at MK and a Tropical Americas land at AK rather than, say, Zootopia Land and Encanto Land, I'll take it!

I tend to agree. A few of the single-IP lands manage to overcome the issues that seem inherent in dedicating so much space to only one property, but even then most of them are yet untested by time. I don't suspect Galaxy's Edge will make it to its 20th Anniversary without tangible change, ambitious though it is.

I think, too, that one of the best thing a Villains Land would have going for it is that it's essentially the conceptual flipside to Fantasyland. If Magic Kingdom hosts the place where Heroes live, it follows that there might be somewhere in the shadows where the Villains reign . . . the dark underbelly of the Most Magical Place on Earth.

It's a rare concept that has the potential to appeal both to Disney Fans and those who want something with more edge. Add to it that there are at least several disparate and iconic places that could be recreated in a Villains Land and you have exciting creative potential along with the unique audience angle.

It would certainly be more thematically interesting to create something that intentionally subverts the personality of The Magic Kingdom, as opposed to building something like Zootopia which would seem to simply misunderstand it.

From what I've been told, Disney certainly noticed the response to the Villains Land pitch at D23, as well as the greater public response once it started being reported on. I've also heard that Disneyland Paris had expressed interest in the concept, which makes sense since they also have very popular Halloween offerings something like this could boost.

Add that Universal has its own dark and spooky land in development for the new park that's looming large on the horizon and I would think there's a perfect storm brewing this decade for a Villains Land to finally happen. Which, of course, does not necessarily mean it will, just that this might be the best chance we ever see.

There are certainly worse ideas out there for what could be built Beyond Big Thunder.

 

[SamusAranX]

Villains Land sounds amazing.

If the really wanna put it over the top, they should have a “Scar Encounter” attraction. Except it’s a real lion spray painted red and orange. And the guest has to outrun said lion. You win an ILL if you complete the run safely. If you die, that’s a sacrifice Disney is willing to make

 

[JD80]

I think single IP lands work if the franchise is big enough. Frozen, Toy Story, Star Wars, Marvel etc. In Florida I don't think there are any left that are worthwhile that they can build since Marvel is off the table. Indiana Jones isn't worthwhile any more in my opinion and Cars is just dated.

 

[yensidtlaw1969]

I think single IP lands work if the franchise is big enough. Frozen, Toy Story, Star Wars, Marvel etc. In Florida I don't think there are any left that are worthwhile that they can build since Marvel is off the table. Indiana Jones isn't worthwhile any more in my opinion and Cars is just dated.

It sort of depends - I think Toy Story actually has a lot of potential for a land, but none of the Toy Story Lands worldwide actually deliver properly on it. What should have handily been one of the most naturally fun and immersive themed entertainment experiences anywhere instead turned into one that's half-heartedly decorated where the smallest guests wait in the longest lines for the shortest rides.

One of the big issues, however, is that the choice for what gets its own land is entirely driven by how much money the property makes, not by how much potential it has as a themed environment. It's about what sells toys more than what's actually exciting to visit full-size in real life.

The Avengers Campuses are an example of that - you'd almost have to build a solid few city blocks to make a proper themed land for those IP, and short of spending that kind of money you get basically what we got. Which is pretty perplexing, since Marvel contains so many massive money-making properties to play with. I don't know what possessed them to execute AC the way they did, but they didn't capture the spirit of the movies, the locations, or the characters in a way that's really satisfying to experience (Outside of the streetmosphere, which is nice).

Cars Land is a weird example where they got it right - while I don't think people were really begging to visit Radiator Springs, the fact that they did it on such a large scale, so thoroughly, cleverly, and delivered on the experiential appeal of both the property and it's greater concept (the basic appeal of cars; wanting to drive FAST) that it turned into a self-sustaining experience. I bet many adults who enjoy Cars Land and its attractions have either not seen the movies or barely remember them.

If you tap into the right element then a prior connection to the IP doesn't matter, the thing stands on its own as worth experiencing. But it requires a level of intelligence and conceptual clarity to deliver on that for the guest, since half the reason these lands get approved in the first place is that many guests will have a prior connection with the thing. It can almost be harder to navigate that since you now have to deliver on guest's expectations for the concept in the abstract and their expectations for the branded property itself, as well as avoiding the pitfalls that come with both.

That's where the Toy Story Lands struggle - they somehow manage to trip on all of those, and those issues were barely addressed as they built successive lands. It was about being an ad more than it was about being an experience, and guests notice that.

 

[Haymarket2008]

Apart from "Villains" and Toontown, I hate the idea of single IP lands in castle parks. Galaxy's Edge looks like a growth on top of an otherwise perfect Disneyland park.

 

[Bocabear]

And beyond that, were there any memorable locations in the Toy Story movies? a suburban backyard, a kids room, a pizza place and a garbage dump.
Cars had a clear sense of place... They were locations you would want to see.
I think that is the problem with Galaxy's Edge...these are not locations we know, and not from the most memorable and beloved films.... Like having a Cinderella land, but it's really Cinderella's cousin Maude who lives in Serbia... A host of new characters no one cares about in locations that are not recognizable...but they spent millions on rockwork....
If they build new lands for behind the Rivers Of America, they need to be compelling settings...Villains Lair would give them the opportunity to do a huge expansion that would cover many different IPs.
Wicked Queen from Snow White, Maleficent ,Captain Hook ,Ursula , Jafar ,Frollo ,Hades ,Dr Facilier ,Mother Gothel...and more. The settings could be beautiful and epic in scale and a minimum of 3-4 rides... plus shopping and a signature dining location... there is a lot to work with, and it brings relevancy to multiple films instead of just one IP like GE or Toy Story Land....

 

[JD80]

And beyond that, were there any memorable locations in the Toy Story movies? a suburban backyard, a kids room, a pizza place and a garbage dump.
Cars had a clear sense of place... They were locations you would want to see.
I think that is the problem with Galaxy's Edge...these are not locations we know, and not from the most memorable and beloved films.... Like having a Cinderella land, but it's really Cinderella's cousin Maude who lives in Serbia... A host of new characters no one cares about in locations that are not recognizable...but they spent millions on rockwork....
If they build new lands for behind the Rivers Of America, they need to be compelling settings...Villains Lair would give them the opportunity to do a huge expansion that would cover many different IPs.
Wicked Queen from Snow White, Maleficent ,Captain Hook ,Ursula , Jafar ,Frollo ,Hades ,Dr Facilier ,Mother Gothel...and more. The settings could be beautiful and epic in scale and a minimum of 3-4 rides... plus shopping and a signature dining location... there is a lot to work with, and it brings relevancy to multiple films instead of just one IP like GE or Toy Story Land....

Obviously you don't like it, but the idea of being in a backyard or a kid's room from the perspective of a Toy is really fun to me. I like Toy Story Land at DHS. Do I wish it was more? Absolutely, but doesn't mean I hate what we have either.

I very much doubt they put in a singular IP land in the Magic Kingdom. I can be wrong though.

 

[yensidtlaw1969]

Apart from "Villains" and Toontown, I hate the idea of single IP lands in castle parks. Galaxy's Edge looks like a growth on top of an otherwise perfect Disneyland park.

Agreed. Villains and Toontown get a pass from me because they, like Fantasyland, create (or presumably would create) a homespace for multiple characters and franchises that fall under a particular umbrella and are fun to imagine in a shared space.

If Fantasyland hadn't set the precedent I would probably feel differently, but since it did and both lands seem conceptually (if not physically) tied to Fantasyland they check out for me as within the scope of the Magic Kingdom concept.

Stumbling upon Zootopia up the road from The Haunted Mansion, however, would not sit well with me.

 

[WorldExplorer]

Having a dozen or so beloved classic films that have already proved their popularity is long lasting (several of which include iconic and potentially wonderful locations) get all shoved into one shared space while something less than a decade old (barely over two years, in Encanto's case) gets an entire landed devoted to it right next to them rubs me the wrong way.

It comes across like bad priorities with a touch of arrogance.

 

[Haymarket2008]

Agreed. Villains and Toontown get a pass from me because they, like Fantasyland, create (or presumably would create) a homespace for multiple characters and franchises that fall under a particular umbrella and are fun to imagine in a shared space.

If Fantasyland hadn't set the precedent I would probably feel differently, but since it did and both lands seem conceptually (if not physically) tied to Fantasyland they check out for me as within the scope of the Magic Kingdom concept.

Stumbling upon Zootopia up the road from The Haunted Mansion, however, would not sit well with me.

Having a dozen or so beloved classic films that have already proved their popularity is long lasting (several of which include iconic and potentially wonderful locations) get all shoved into one shared space while something less than a decade old (barely over two years, in Encanto's case) gets an entire landed devoted to it right next to them rubs me the wrong way.

It comes across like bad priorities with a touch of arrogance.

CORRECT on both counts.

 

[Animaniac93-98]

It's kind of crazy that they got a positive, first hand, in person reaction from their own customers to the idea of a Villain's land in MK and then decided "no, maybe we should build Zootopia instead?"

 

[Animaniac93-98]

Having a dozen or so beloved classic films that have already proved their popularity is long lasting (several of which include iconic and potentially wonderful locations) get all shoved into one shared space while something less than a decade old (barely over two years, in Encanto's case) gets an entire landed devoted to it right next to them rubs me the wrong way.

It comes across like bad priorities with a touch of arrogance.

Zootopia, the movie, is Bob Iger's Disney (like Coco and Encanto). The ride was originally made for his Magic Kingdom.

Now [if built] his brand of Disney gets to reshape the most popular Disney park for years to come. Just like how Disneyland may have had Star Wars in it for decades, but not the characters from the sequel trilogy made possible by his acquisition.

A land based on animated characters made before he joined the company doesn't.

 

[ToTBellHop]

It's kind of crazy that they got a positive, first hand, in person reaction from their own customers to the idea of a Villain's land in MK and then decided "no, maybe we should build Zootopia instead?"

Fans at a convention are different from the general public, though. Perhaps they did focus groups and too many moms thought it would scare their 3-year olds? Ironic, since Susie will be 12 before this opens…

 

[ToTBellHop]

Zootopia, the movie, is Bob Iger's Disney (like Coco and Encanto). The ride was originally made for his Magic Kingdom.

Now [if built] his brand of Disney gets to reshape the most popular Disney park for years to come. Just like how Disneyland may have had Star Wars in it for decades, but not the characters from the sequel trilogy made possible by his acquisition.

A land based on animated characters made before he joined the company doesn't.

If he’s that petty, I’d be perfectly happy to have him push Facilier into TBA since it’s one of “his IPs”.

 

[Animaniac93-98]

Fans at a convention are different from the general public, though. Perhaps they did focus groups and too many moms thought it would scare their 3-year olds? Ironic, since Susie will be 12 before this opens…

The Halloween Parties and Villains Nights have no trouble selling tickets and Fantasmic! is packed every night.

You'd think by now they know how much their customers like villains. I mean, they even made Maleficent and Cruella movies.

 

[ToTBellHop]

The Halloween Parties and Villains Nights have no trouble selling tickets and Fantasmic! is packed every night.

You'd think by now they know how much their customers like villains. I mean, they even made Maleficent and Cruella movies.

How about a 70 mph Mickey and the Roadster Racers coaster with 7 inversions? At DAK because Mickey is a mouse.

 

[Animaniac93-98]

How about a 70 mph Mickey and the Roadster Racers coaster with 7 inversions? At DAK because Mickey is a mouse.

Too late, Cedar Fair started construction on that the minute he went into public domain.