News Reedy Creek Improvement District and the Central Florida Tourism Oversight District

[Stripes]

Factually that is not true. RCFD members were drastically underpaid compared to surrounding county fire departments. In fact RCFD was experiencing staffing problems because so many transferred to better paying positions with better benefits and more opportunities for promotions than with RCFD.

Then why are RCFD firefighters from all over the state? Why are the firefighters breaking down in tears and lambasting the new board for “dismantling the district?” Why are they complaining about unkept promises and budget cuts?

Why were RCFD response times only about 6-8 minutes if they are so understaffed?

I do recognize that the pay was relatively low for the surrounding area but that’s not directly comparable. My school district had the lowest salaries for teachers in the area and yet the best teachers with the best test scores in the area. Why? Because the environment was different and teachers were willing to accept less money for a better experience.

Nobody is gonna tell me that providing fire and EMS services to Walt Disney World isn’t a much safer and better environment than the general Orlando area.

 

[Lilofan]

Then why are RCFD firefighters from all over the state? Why are the firefighters breaking down in tears and lambasting the new board for “dismantling the district?” Why are they complaining about unkept promises and budget cuts?

Why were RCFD response times only about 6-8 minutes if they are so understaffed?

I do recognize that the pay was relatively low for the surrounding area but that’s not directly comparable. My school district had the lowest salaries for teachers in the area and yet the best teachers with the best test scores in the area. Why? Because the environment was different and teachers were willing to accept less money for a better experience.

Nobody is gonna tell me that providing fire and EMS services to Walt Disney World isn’t a much safer and better environment than the general Orlando area.

And the perk previously of free theme park entry to firefighters/EMS and their family/friends !

 

[EeyoreFan#24]

Its sad. Years ago RCFD was a destination dept. I left Emergency Services in Central Florida around 2015, but i knew one that was lucky to get in. At the time they said it was better pay and better conditions. Even if you were mandated overtime at RCFD, you didn't spend 90% of that shift and you normal shift in nursing homes and dealing with other Florida street issues or running the hospital transfer bus. Believe it or not, this is one category that dealing with tourist might win out on.

 

[TtocsMc]

Factually that is not true. RCFD members were drastically underpaid compared to surrounding county fire departments. In fact RCFD was experiencing staffing problems because so many transferred to better paying positions with better benefits and more opportunities for promotions than with RCFD.

You clearly don’t know any firefighters in the Central Florida area, lol. Kissimmee, St. Cloud, Osceola, Ocala and probably some of Orange County new hires would love to make an RCFD salary and only have to respond to a fraction of the calls.

 

[mikejs78]

Your evidence of this is?

That's not how this works. You made the accusation without evidence. The burden of proof is on you.

That aside, RCID had a reputation as being the strictest building authority in at least central FL.

So when RCFD was begging for more first responders and both Disney and RCID put up roadblocks because they didn’t want to pay for it, that wasn’t cronyism at its worst

Union negotiations may or may not be indictive of reality. There's also the tax consideration. RCID was limited in its revenue to what was paid in taxes - and could only raise taxes if the voters approved as is the norm in FL.

The leadership of RCID were practically hand selected by TWDC

So? This is the case in many special districts in the state of FL.

Legal counsel at RCID ran their briefs through Disney Legal for approval

You know this, how? Show your work.

Zoning and Development for Disney Properties were handled by appointees with direct affiliation to Disney.

Like who, and how were they affiliated?

 

[flynnibus]

just more misinformation as always...

The staffing talking points about RCFD were never about people leaving or lack of staffing due to inability to hire. The union was fighting the RCID management over scheduled staffing loads... arguing they were being held too low post-pandemic because it reduced shifts for the union members. and in turn.. limited headcount needed [aka limiting adding more union due paying members]).

The union took the point to the media to try to public shame management arguing things were putting safety at risk. The fight was always about trying to expand the # of shifts and employees... not about unfilled positions or attrition. The 'mass defection' is nothing but someone who doesn't understand what they are regurgitating.

The union was fighting for pay increases and headcounts, just as you would expect the union to do for it's members.

 

[monothingie]

You clearly don’t know any firefighters in the Central Florida area, lol. Kissimmee, St. Cloud, Osceola, Ocala and probably some of Orange County new hires would love to make an RCFD salary and only have to respond to a fraction of the calls.

Wrong. OCFD and OsCFD contracts paid much better than the old RCFD contract especially for seniority. Also more opportunities for promotion. The new CFTOD contract now makes CFTOD FD the most desirable place in the state to get on the job. So try again.

 

[mikejs78]

Wrong. OCFD and OsCFD contracts paid much better than the old RCFD contract especially for seniority. Also more opportunities for promotion. The new CFTOD contract now makes CFTOD FD the most desirable place in the state to get on the job. So try again.

Then why are the firefighters unhappy?

 

[monothingie]

Then why are the firefighters unhappy?

Now? They were unhappy that some of their member leaked details of their contract before ratification causing them reconfigure the deal. Regardless the current deal provides them basically everything they wanted.

Before? Under paid, under staffed, stagnant ranks.

 

[mikejs78]

Regardless the current deal provides them basically everything they wanted.

Not everything....

https://www.miamiherald.com/news/politics-government/state-politics/article278534544.html

Reedy Creek firefighters don’t yet have cash replacement for Disney passes

Unionized firefighters are still waiting to receive cash stipends to make up for Disney perks ended by Gov. Ron DeSantis’ tourism oversight district.

www.orlandosentinel.com

Oh, and a number of things promised to the firefighters have been stripped out of the budget.

Disney districtâs new budget departs from initial promises to boost fire department

They noted the tax cut it gave taxpayers, more than 80% of which will go to Disney.

www.wftv.com

 

[monothingie]

hope the firefighters are very well compensated. I was not the one who was upset, it was Orlando-area leaders.

With that said, I strongly believe in accountability to taxpayers. I don‘t believe in anybody having free rein to spend someone else’s money without having a feedback mechanism. And that is a moral position I hold that I would apply to any similar situation not just this one.

Government serves the public, not solely the tax payer.

Disney being the primary tax payer in the district resulted in the TWDC having a heavy hand in directing how the government operated, which as in the case of RCFD did NOT serve the public. Additionally TWDC utilized their substantial influence over the various public officials in RCID to gain benefits through zoning and other administrative venues that developers in surrounding jurisdictions would not be able to secure or not be able to secure easily and/or quickly.

 

[Twirlnhurl]

Government serves the public, not solely the tax payer.

Additionally TWDC utilized their substantial influence over the various public officials in RCID to gain benefits through zoning and other administrative venues that developers in surrounding jurisdictions would not be able to secure or not be able to secure easily and/or quickly.

I don't have enough knowledge about the fire department to have an opinion on that part of this question. If the State of Florida and the new RCID board arranged for the Orange County Fire Department to take over the operations of the RCFD, along with giving the county RCFD's budget, I would find this line of inquiry more interesting. But the fire department is obviously irrelevant to the actions of the governors office, which is why more direct methods of addressing fire department issues were not pursued.

Government primarily serves the public within its jurisdiction. The RCID's public is Walt Disney World and like three other people.

Governments can serve the public in a broader sense than that. But using that metric, RCID rarely did anything that wasn't in the interest of the state of Florida, or Central Florida in general. When I read Married to the Mouse by Rick Foglesong, I was surprised at how little Disney abused the power of the RCID.

Yes, RCID may have approved building permits more quickly than Orange County would. But crucially, the longer review time at Orange County is not because of greater scrutiny or a higher standard. Instead, that longer review time at Orange County comes from a lower level of staffing VS demand, unclear directives from elected officials, and a generally lower quality of management within the Orange County Government permitting office.

 

[TtocsMc]

I don't have enough knowledge about the fire department to have an opinion on that part of this question. If the State of Florida and the new RCID board arranged for the Orange County Fire Department to take over the operations of the RCFD, along with giving the county RCFD's budget, I would find this line of inquiry more interesting. But the fire department is obviously irrelevant to the actions of the governors office, which is why more direct methods of addressing fire department issues were not pursued.

Government primarily serves the public within its jurisdiction. The RCID's public is Walt Disney World and like three other people.

Governments can serve the public in a broader sense than that. But using that metric, RCID rarely did anything that wasn't in the interest of the state of Florida, or Central Florida in general. When I read Married to the Mouse by Rick Foglesong, I was surprised at how little Disney abused the power of the RCID.

Yes, RCID may have approved building permits more quickly than Orange County would. But crucially, the longer review time at Orange County is not because of greater scrutiny or a higher standard. Instead, that longer review time at Orange County comes from a lower level of staffing VS demand, unclear directives from elected officials, and a generally lower quality of management within the Orange County Government permitting office.

Now this is a well written and educated response.

 

[lazyboy97o]

I don't have enough knowledge about the fire department to have an opinion on that part of this question. If the State of Florida and the new RCID board arranged for the Orange County Fire Department to take over the operations of the RCFD, along with giving the county RCFD's budget, I would find this line of inquiry more interesting. But the fire department is obviously irrelevant to the actions of the governors office, which is why more direct methods of addressing fire department issues were not pursued.

Government primarily serves the public within its jurisdiction. The RCID's public is Walt Disney World and like three other people.

Governments can serve the public in a broader sense than that. But using that metric, RCID rarely did anything that wasn't in the interest of the state of Florida, or Central Florida in general. When I read Married to the Mouse by Rick Foglesong, I was surprised at how little Disney abused the power of the RCID.

Yes, RCID may have approved building permits more quickly than Orange County would. But crucially, the longer review time at Orange County is not because of greater scrutiny or a higher standard. Instead, that longer review time at Orange County comes from a lower level of staffing VS demand, unclear directives from elected officials, and a generally lower quality of management within the Orange County Government permitting office.

The new board would tell you have already corrected a serious safety issue identified by the state by implementing the Florida Fire Prevention Code within the district, replacing the outdated, corrupt, safety nightmare of the previous regime that enforced the Florida Fire Prevention Code.

 

[mikejs78]

Government serves the public, not solely the tax payer.

Government serves the public that elects them in their jurisdictional area. We don't have situations in this country where the government is not accountable to those whom they serve - except in CFTOD.

Some people have the luxury to do what they love regardless of how good/bad their employer is. Others have to pay the bills and put food in mouths. None of that though excuses the reprehensible way Disney regards their CM.

Every single CM I know or talked to love their jobs. Not one has complained about the way Disney treats them. A good friend of mine has been working there now for two years and loves every minute. Another friend has a daughter in the college program, who now is considering staying full time after her program is up and she gets her degree.

I'm sorry, your assertions don't line up with the reality of what those I know have experienced. Are their issues? Sure. But nothing like you make it out to be.

 

[Stripes]

Government serves the public, not solely the tax payer.

Disney being the primary tax payer in the district resulted in the TWDC having a heavy hand in directing how the government operated, which as in the case of RCFD did NOT serve the public. Additionally TWDC utilized their substantial influence over the various public officials in RCID to gain benefits through zoning and other administrative venues that developers in surrounding jurisdictions would not be able to secure or not be able to secure easily and/or quickly.

I agree that the purpose of government is to serve the public and not solely the taxpayer. However, when it comes to government spending there must be a feedback mechanism to ensure accountability to taxpayers.

Given the public information available about RCFD, I think your claim that the department did not serve the public is wholly unjustified.

It’s my view that the owner of 90% of land in a particular jurisdiction should have “substantial influence” over the zoning regulations of their own land in that jurisdiction. It’s not clear to me how that substantial influence was abused to harm the public interest even if we ignore the clear benefits RCID offered to the Orlando-area.

 

[lazyboy97o]

Government serves the public that elects them in their jurisdictional area. We don't have situations in this country where the government is not accountable to those whom they serve - except in CFTOD.

It is a bit telling that the big criticism of the Reedy Creek Improvement District is something that would be questionable at best in any other situation. An elected official serving the interests of those outside their jurisdiction would be a serious problem and at its extremes can even be a criminal offense.

 

[Isamar]

What is telling in here is that clearly some people have no clue how special districts work, and who they are there to serve.

Thanks for always injecting fact.

It hasn’t helped that so much of the media coverage has failed to explain how RCID worked or, worse, simply parroted the widespread misunderstanding that it was a “tax break” for Disney.

 

[Disney Analyst]

It hasn’t helped that so much of the media coverage has failed to explain how RCID worked or, worse, simply parroted the widespread misunderstanding that it was a “tax break” for Disney.

Unfortunately, the way the world is now, people just push out lie after lie, and eventually many can no longer discern truth or fact, and just sit in their rage pits, being stoked by those who profit and earn power from their misdirected, or misguided rage.

 

[MaryJaneP]

Who was it, possibly Goebels, that said if you repeat the same lie often enough, it may eventually be accepted as the truth?