News Reedy Creek Improvement District and the Central Florida Tourism Oversight District

[lazyboy97o]

I've not had to partake of Orlando Health's services yet, but I'm pretty sure that facility has a play area for children that includes TV; most large hospitals do. Maybe not Disney, but the staff can most likely switch the channel to Disney Jr. It's ~ 2 miles outside of RCID.

I really need to disappear the RCID sign.

Disney provides decorative elementals to many hospitals. Orlando Hospital Arnold Palmer Hospital for Children has the Walt Disney World Resort Grand Atrium. Nemours Children’s Hospital also has a variety of Disney decor. While Orlando area hospitals have more elaborate decor, Disney does provide material to hospitals outside of the area.

The affordable housing that has been talked about along Herzog that will be built where the storm water ponds are is withing the boundaries of OCTOD. If any of that housing will not be rentals, wouldn't those property owners also end up paying OCTOD taxes?

The development is not within the district.

 

[LAKid53]

I assume the plan is (was?) to de-annex land from RCID.

Well guess who'd have to approve the de-annexation....

 

[LAKid53]

Disney provides decorative elementals to many hospitals. Orlando Hospital Arnold Palmer Hospital for Children has the Walt Disney World Resort Grand Atrium. Nemours Children’s Hospital also has a variety of Disney decor. While Orlando area hospitals have more elaborate decor, Disney does provide material to hospitals outside of the area.


The development is not within the district.

Is it not on Hartzog between Flamingo Crossings and the intersection with Avalon (545)? If so, it is with the boundaries of the District. I drive past the sign every time I go to Target, 5 Guys, Walgreens and Pieology at Flamingo Crossings.

The sign saying "Entering RCID" is right past the Vintage Horizons West apartments on Hartzog. Where my arrow on the map is. I live ~ 200 yards from that arrow.

 

[monothingie]

I'm not wrong. The services CFTOD provides is to taxpayer property. The trash it picks up, the waste water it treats, the potable water it provides, the roads it paves, the fire protection it provides is all to the property owners. It's not MY trash that gets picked up, it's the resorts and parks. It's not MY potable water supply, it's the resorts and parks. It's not MY waste water that is treated, it's the resorts and parks. It's not MY home that the fire department will save in the event of a fire, it's the resorts and/or parks. It's not MY roads that are maintained, it's the property owners. While I might get the tangential benefits, OCTOD serves the property owners within its boundaries. If OCTOD didn't exist, the TWDC property taxes paid to Orange County would cover such services. And roads on property would be garbage. Try driving the roads around the area near Millenia Mall - they are pretty bad.

My Orange County property taxes pay for the collection of MY trash by Waste Pro, not my neighbors, supplys the potable water to MY townhouse, not my neighbors, treats the waste water generated by living in MY townhouse, not my neighbors, and paving roads throughout the county. Also pays for Orange County schools, even though I don't have children in Orange County. And if I call 911 for fire or other emergency, it will most likely be whomever Winter Garden or Orange County contracted with for those services. Fortunately I've not had to find out yet who that is.

You’re shifting the goal posts. Your original point was that CFTOD is only beholden to and serves the district taxpayers, aka Disney. The district serves the public including Disney and all those that traverse the district providing essential services for everyone. If your car catches fire, the district FD puts out the fire in your car. If you get stuck in the monorail, the district comes out and rescues you. District meetings are open to the public, where anyone can come and petition the appointed administration, not just Disney.

Just because Disney pays the bills doesn’t mean they get complete control. That’s ridiculous.

Can you imagine if the state gave Exxon Mobil a special taxing district to develop a massive refinery complex back in the 60s akin to what they gave Disney with RCID, then took it away 50 years later? I’m sure all of you would be cheering Exxon Mobil right? No of course not because your all a bunch of partisans playing out your dislike of the Governor instead of being objective. There’s going to be a lot crow eaten when the lawsuits are all resolved in the states favor.

 

[Stripes]

Can you imagine if the state gave Exxon Mobil a special taxing district to develop a massive refinery complex back in the 60s akin to what they gave Disney with RCID, then took it away 50 years later? I’m sure all of you would be cheering Exxon Mobil right? No of course not because your all a bunch of partisans playing out your dislike of the Governor instead of being objective. There’s going to be a lot crow eaten when the lawsuits are all resolved in the states favor.

Let’s say this situation with Exxon took place in California. I would still be totally against having a governor appointed board with the power to levy extra property taxes on Exxon’s land, control over how their tax dollars were spent, and total zoning and permitting control over Exxon’s development of their land. This is all especially true if the reason for the change was due to Exxon’s exercise of free speech, even if I disagreed with their speech.

I don’t know about anyone else, but I’m not looking at this situation through a partisan lens. What Florida has done to Disney is wrong and anti-American.

 

[MisterPenguin]

I don't know if Reedy Creek has that Disney magic in their buildings but the ER at Celebration Hospital has a good sized Disney themed play area for kids while the little ones play and or watch 24/7 Disney movies on the big screen.

Where can I buy a ticket for this?

 

[JoeCamel]

Where can I buy a ticket for this?

Fall off the Astro Orbiter and they will punch your ticket for you

 

[lazyboy97o]

Let’s say this situation with Exxon took place in California. I would still be totally against having a governor appointed board with the power to levy extra property taxes on Exxon’s land, control over how their tax dollars were spent, and total zoning and permitting control over Exxon’s development of their land. This is all especially true if the reason for the change was due to Exxon’s exercise of free speech, even if I disagreed with their speech.

I don’t know about anyone else, but I’m not looking at this situation through a partisan lens. What Florida has done to Disney is wrong and anti-American.

You have to love the ridiculous, ill-informed caricature of a strawman that hypothetical is built around. Exxon having to follow stricter regulations than they would otherwise have to follow and having to pay for it seems like the sort of situation that would appeal to many.

 

[EeyoreFan#24]

There’s a similar transfer setup at the Datyona Speedway. Infield transfers used to all go to Halifax Health. (Almost literally across the street) because they sponsored the infield care center. Few years ago it switched to advent health. Now the default spot is advent health Daytona which is a little farther. But of course it’s not completely black and white there either, it depends on the situation and the patient. I believe there was also a similar situation with a switch at the volusia branch jail. (Don’t quote me on that one, might be somewhere else)

Its all driven by the transport protocols set by the local medical director for the EMS agency. I don’t have a copy of RCFD protocols, but I’d guess the crews would have discretion for non emergency transports and specific receiving facilities for emergency transports. Some examples are: Trauma Center, Stroke Center, Burn Center, or in some cases is just closest emergency facility.

 

[Lilofan]

Fall off the Astro Orbiter and they will punch your ticket for you

Morgan&Morgan the ambulance chaser will like a word with the patient in the ER.

 

[Twirlnhurl]

Can you imagine if the state gave Exxon Mobil a special taxing district to develop a massive refinery complex back in the 60s akin to what they gave Disney with RCID, then took it away 50 years later? I’m sure all of you would be cheering Exxon Mobil right? No of course not because your all a bunch of partisans playing out your dislike of the Governor instead of being objective. There’s going to be a lot crow eaten when the lawsuits are all resolved in the states favor.

I guess I am not sure why you think anyone would be opposed to Exxon having the ability to have a refinery. Are you saying (1) Exxon shouldn't have the ability to pay more taxes to get a higher level of government service? (2) Disney was given the power to build a refinery with RCID legislation back in the '60s? (3) Something else?

If it is (1), I disagree completely. Exxon should be allowed to pay more taxes to get a higher level of government service. If fact, because of their economic importance, they will probably get a higher level of service anyway, so if they choose to tax themselves more to do it, that is a great deal for the public. Yes, Exxon should get the special district, unequivocally.

Further thoughts on the implications of (1): Universal gets a higher level of service from the City of Orlando than other businesses in Orlando.

The City of Orlando's permitting department has a full time staff person who sits on site at Universal to expedite permit applications. This is done at Orlando taxpayers expense. It probably costs the city $300k all in per year to give Universal this perk.

The pedestrian bridge between Cabana Bay and Sapphire Falls over Adventure Way was paid for by the City of Orlando, despite it benefitting only Universal. There is not really a good way for non-Universal customers to access the bridge, so it really should have been paid for by Universal. That bridge was like $20 million of Orlando taxpayers money.

The roads at Universal are City of Orlando roads, maintained to a higher standard than the rest of the city, at taxpayer expense.

As a resident of the city, I don't necessarily mind it, as Universal is a major economic driver. But it would be much better if Universal had their own RCID to take thar burden off the city's other taxpayers.

(Edit) see @lazyboy97o's response below. Universal has a special taxing district controlled by the city that pays for that infrastructure, as I suggested would be the better alternative. In fact, it is actually how it works.

Universal (Epic Universe Complex) and Sea World also get better treatment from Orange County than normal businesses in unincorporated parts of the county.

Orange County passed legislation to automatically approve permit applications within a week if the county's permit reviewers fail to respond with comments sooner. This basically only applies to Epic Universe and Sea World if they had a big expansion. This means that buildings at Epic Universe may have never had their design reviewd by the county, or the county prioritized their applications over all others (normal permit review times in Orange County exceed one week by quite a bit.)

So regarding (1), Exxon should get their district, and it is far better for the public than the alternatives.

If you meant (2), I don't think anyone would care if the state removed Disney's rights to exercise parts of the RCID enabling legiathat they have not and likely will never use. I don't think that would be very controversial. Certainly, I wouldn't be following this story if that is all there is to see here.

If you think I am a partisan who only sees bad in everything the governor says or does, direct message me and I can give you reasons that criticism doesn't apply to me. I don't want to do it in this response, as I think that would derail this thread a bit too much.

 

[LAKid53]

You’re shifting the goal posts. Your original point was that CFTOD is only beholden to and serves the district taxpayers, aka Disney. The district serves the public including Disney and all those that traverse the district providing essential services for everyone. If your car catches fire, the district FD puts out the fire in your car. If you get stuck in the monorail, the district comes out and rescues you. District meetings are open to the public, where anyone can come and petition the appointed administration, not just Disney.

Just because Disney pays the bills doesn’t mean they get complete control. That’s ridiculous.

Can you imagine if the state gave Exxon Mobil a special taxing district to develop a massive refinery complex back in the 60s akin to what they gave Disney with RCID, then took it away 50 years later? I’m sure all of you would be cheering Exxon Mobil right? No of course not because your all a bunch of partisans playing out your dislike of the Governor instead of being objective. There’s going to be a lot crow eaten when the lawsuits are all resolved in the states favor.

Ignore that you have a state government directly, through a board appointed SOLELY by its CEO, telling a major private corporation how it can manage the property it owns WITHIN that state. A company who's operations within that state generates a significant portion of one of the sources of revenues for that state.

Those lawsuits won't fail. There's something called precedent with regards to the contracts clause. In addition, the governor's own continued statements and actions, along with several board members, are bolstering Disney's claims in its filings.

 

[lazyboy97o]

The City of Orlando's permitting department has a full time staff person who sits on site at Universal to expedite permit applications. This is done at Orlando taxpayers expense. It probably costs the city $300k all in per year to give Universal this perk.

Do you have a source for this? It doesn’t really make sense. Universal does do quite that much work. Plans are reviewed by more than just the building department, so you’d need more than one person. Universal doesn’t create the majority of the permit documents, so being at the North Camous isn’t really convenient for anyone. The documents these days are also digital, so again, there’s not really a need to be close.

The pedestrian bridge between Cabana Bay and Sapphire Falls over Adventure Way was paid for by the City of Orlando, despite it benefitting only Universal. There is not really a good way for non-Universal customers to access the bridge, so it really should have been paid for by Universal. That bridge was like $20 million of Orlando taxpayers money.

The bridge was paid by additional taxes levied on Universal Orlando Resort. The resort is within the I-4 Republic Dr. Redevelopment Area. This special district is focus on road and transit improvements. While it is entirely controlled by the city it has strict legal obligations to its taxpayers. The city essentially had to build the bridge, using district funds, because the property owners requested it.

The roads at Universal are City of Orlando roads, maintained to a higher standard than the rest of the city, at taxpayer expense.

See above.

 

[monothingie]

Ignore that you have a state government directly, through a board appointed SOLELY by its CEO, telling a major private corporation how it can manage the property it owns WITHIN that state. A company whose operations within that state generates a significant portion of one of the sources of revenues for that state.

Ummm many jurisdictions have state agencies which oversee development and regulatory authority over private land, with appointees coming directly from the executive branch. I have one of those that affects hundreds of private corporations in NJ called the NJSEA (Meadowlands Commission). Stop acting like this is something that has never been done before. It’s a very common thing all over the country.

Those lawsuits won't fail. There's something called precedent with regards to the contracts clause. In addition, the governor's own continued statements and actions, along with several board members, are bolstering Disney's claims in its filings.

Which are irrelevant. Not even accounting for the questionable legality of the agreements in which RCID ceded public authority to a private company, of which if upheld would have wide reaching implications nationwide, the development contracts employed by the RCID must adhere to state law. Disney is trying to argue that A private agreement they entered into can supersede state law, that too if affirmed will establish new legal precedent with major implications. Which is why it won’t happen.

 

[Twirlnhurl]

Do you have a source for this? It doesn’t really make sense. Universal does do quite that much work. Plans are reviewed by more than just the building department, so you’d need more than one person. Universal doesn’t create the majority of the permit documents, so being at the North Camous isn’t really convenient for anyone. The documents these days are also digital, so again, there’s not really a need to be close.

That is a fair question. City of Orlando may no longer have someone on site. When I was doing facility design for Universal at one of their architecture and engineering consultants between 2015 and 2020, there was on on-site permit leison that all of our permit coordination was to go through.

This city employee was not the only permit reviewer. They were more of a facilitator to prevent things from getting stuck in the city's permit review system. I don't know if that still exists, but I don't see why it wouldn't.

The bridge was paid by additional taxes levied on Universal Orlando Resort. The resort is within the I-4 Republic Dr. Redevelopment Area. This special district is focus on road and transit improvements. While it is entirely controlled by the city it has strict legal obligations to its taxpayers. The city essentially had to build the bridge, using district funds, because the property owners requested it.


See above.

@lazyboy97o, thank you for the clarification. When the bridge was built, the newspaper didn't say it was built on behalf of the district. But that makes sense.

 

[mikejs78]

Ummm many jurisdictions have state agencies which oversee development and regulatory authority over private land, with appointees coming directly from the executive branch. I have one of those that affects hundreds of private corporations in NJ called the NJSEA (Meadowlands Commission). Stop acting like this is something that has never been done before. It’s a very common thing all over the country.

But they don't have taxing authority. NJSEA gets its revenue from the state budget, and owns much of the land within the district.

You see, we have a principle in this country that this nation was founded on as the rallying cry for the American Revolution - No taxation without representation. Those who can levy taxes need to be accountable to those who they levy taxes on. CFTOD is not accountable to any voters.

Want to put a governor appointed board in charge of land use in the district? Fine. Remove the ability to levy property taxes and get the funds out of the state budget. Yet I don't see that happening.

 

[LAKid53]

Ummm many jurisdictions have state agencies which oversee development and regulatory authority over private land, with appointees coming directly from the executive branch.

Having worked for the state agency that is responsible for the construction and management of buildings throughout the state, I can tell you WE didn't have TAXING authority. THAT resides with the state legislature. Even though our agency head was appointed by the governor. Having worked for the state agency that oversees the acquisition and management of environmentally sensitive lands, WE didn't have the authority to levy taxes used to purchase and manage those lands, the Legislature did. We couldn't unilaterally buy or sell land, that required legislative approval. Yet our agency head was appointed by the governor. FLDOT doesn't tax drivers to use roads in the state. The Legislature levies those taxes. The governor appoints the Secretary of FLDOT. None of those agencies mentioned collect those taxes; FLDOR was responsible for collecting those taxes.

The Legislature is comprised of representatives voted into their offices by residents eligible to vote in the districts they represent. TWDC doesn't get that basic constitutional right anymore. It doesn't get to vote for members of the Board of Supervisors who have the power to levy taxes against it.

I get to vote for the members of my county's school board and county commission, along with representatives of special districts, all who have the constitutional and statutory power to levy taxes on the property I own. I therefore have some say in that tax rate. Disney no longer does.

It wasn't broken. It was a symbiotic relationship that benefited Disney, the state, and residents of both Orange and Osceola counties.

Florida didn't have a statewide building code until 2002 - it was a hodgepodge of county codes, coupled with lax enforcement. Andrew in 1992 showed how badly a statewide code was needed. RCID has repeatedly met or exceeded the existing codes, whether the state FBC or county ones.

 

[Stripes]

Which are irrelevant. Not even accounting for the questionable legality of the agreements in which RCID ceded public authority to a private company, of which if upheld would have wide reaching implications nationwide, the development contracts employed by the RCID must adhere to state law. Disney is trying to argue that A private agreement they entered into can supersede state law, that too if affirmed will establish new legal precedent with major implications. Which is why it won’t happen.

Disney, in their defenses, is not arguing that the development agreement can violate state law but that only a party injured by said violation has standing to bring such a claim. In the case of SB 1604, Disney is arguing that their contract supersedes Florida law because SB 1604 is a clear violation of the Contracts clause of the U.S. Constitution and the Florida Constitution.

The claim that RCID ceded too much authority to Disney is questionable given that Chapter 163, Florida Statutes empowered RCID to contract those rights. For instance, the District complains that the development agreement allows Disney the ability to set Maximum Heights while ignoring the fact that Florida specifically allows this under state law.

Regardless, if Disney wins their First Amendment federal case then the state case doesn’t matter.

 

[Chi84]

Disney, in their defenses, is not arguing that the development agreement can violate state law but that only a party injured by said violation has standing to bring such a claim. In the case the SB 1604 Disney is arguing that their contract supersedes Florida law because SB 1604 is a clear violation of the Contracts clause of the U.S. Constitution and the Florida Constitution.

The claim that RCID ceded too much authority to Disney is questionable given that Chapter 163, Florida Statutes empowered RCID to contract those rights. For instance, the District complains that the development agreement allows Disney the ability to set Maximum Heights while ignoring the fact that Florida specifically allows this under state law.

Regardless, if Disney wins their First Amendment federal case then the state case doesn’t matter.

The pleadings are very clear but sometimes the general public doesn’t take the time to read and understand them. General talking points will never supersede legal pleadings.

 

[mkt]

But then it's not AdventHealth, which Disney has "contracted" with.

RCID will take you the nearest hospital that can see you.

I was dropped off by their ambulance at Dr Phillips Hospital after an injury. That's an Orlando Health facility. And Disney paid the bill.