DHS Indiana Jones Land?

[Sirwalterraleigh]

As usual, you're sidestepping my question. Unless you're implying with "But it's not really a likelihood" that they're just gonna leave it alone.

Which of course begs for the question: Why tear down the little coaster, then? Is there supposed to be something replacing it or not? Because I find it VERY hard to believe they'd ever want to DECREASE the amount of attractions at the park and just make Dinoland LESS exciting than it already is.

You’re “sidestepping” the point…That I and others are leading you to:

You’re under the assumption that more rides = more profits. That is not entirely what the numbers bear out. Disney has saturated its market in Orlando. They still value the PR of new things…and need to for “market competitiveness” and to signal Wall Street they are reinvesting for rhe future profits they already glean…

…but that doesn’t mean a new ride “makes” money. There’s a lot of misconception there. New rides cost materials and employees…longterm…and If no new people show up and the gift shop doesn’t sell…it’s actually a loss.

So back to front: why would Disney NOT build another park in Orlando? I want you to put the chain together and tell me.

 

[Eric M Blake]

You’re “sidestepping” the point…That I and others are leading you to:

You’re under the assumption that more rides = more profits. That is not entirely what the numbers bear out. Disney has saturated its market in Orlando. They still value the PR of new things…and need to for “market competitiveness” and to signal Wall Street they are reinvesting for rhe future profits they already glean…

…but that doesn’t mean a new ride “makes” money. There’s a lot of misconception there. New rides cost materials and employees…longterm…and If no new people show up and the gift shop doesn’t sell…it’s actually a loss.

So back to front: why would Disney NOT build another park in Orlando? I want you to put the chain together and tell me.

So you're saying they're content to just compress Dinoland and leave it be, and do nothing to increase its attractiveness to visitors.

After replacing the very dead Camp Minnie Mickey with the very alive Pandora. But they're not gonna boost the other dying side of the park at all.

Yeah. Makes a lot of sense.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

So you're saying they're content to just compress Dinoland and leave it be, and do nothing to increase its attractiveness to visitors.

After replacing the very dead Camp Minnie Mickey with the very alive Pandora. But they're not gonna boost the other dying side of the park at all.

Yeah. Makes a lot of sense.

You need to kinda know the history of the park and follow their pattern…

Start with these two questions:
1. How long was camp Minnie/Mickey there?
2. Why did they build avatar?

It’s been 25 years: go

 

[Eric M Blake]

You need to kinda know the history of the park and follow their pattern…

Start with these two questions:
1. How long was camp Minnie/Mickey there?
2. Why did they build avatar?

Pandora, you mean.

You're clearly arguing "Pandora was to promote the new(ly continuing) Avatar franchise. Therefore they need something to promote in order to motivate boosting X dead area. Therefore they're gonna let Dinoland die more, because they've nothing to promote."

Let me counter that argument: Seven Dwarves Mine Train in MK.

Fantasyland expansion, circa 2014 (Iger's "first term," incidentally).

The very dead Snow White's Scary Adventures was shut down and replaced with a DP Meet & Greet, but the new Mine Train was then built as part of said expansion.

A boost, if you will.

What was that promoting?

 

[BlakeW39]

Which of course begs for the question: Why tear down the little coaster, then? Is there supposed to be something replacing it or not? Because I find it VERY hard to believe they'd ever want to DECREASE the amount of attractions at the park and just make Dinoland LESS exciting than it already is.

Disney has torn down rides before and replaced them with nothing. Even more often, they've torn down rides and replaced them with something worse (more common than replacing them with something better really). So it wouldn't be hard to believe they'd tear down PW and not replace it in the near future.

That said. If they did replace PW. The current philosophy is that Moana will replace the carnival area. Zootopia will be going where the Dinosaur E-ticket is

 

[Eric M Blake]

Disney has torn down rides before and replaced them with nothing. Even more often, they've torn down rides and replaced them with something worse (more common than replacing them with something better really). So it wouldn't be hard to believe they'd tear down PW and not replace it in the near future.

That said. If they did replace PW. The current philosophy is that Moana will replace the carnival area. Zootopia will be going where the Dinosaur E-ticket is

Yeah...considering how Moana is getting a home in Communicore Plaza at Epcot *as we speak*, I'm kinda skeptical of the idea that they're also gonna put her in AK so soon after.

I'm more thinking Moana was tossed around as a potential idea until they decided to put her in Epcot...so they went to the other idea--Zootopia.

 

[Eric M Blake]

On THAT note, Zootopia IS getting a sequel, isn't it?

Oddly enough, Moana isn't IIRC. Just a potential live action remake.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Pandora, you mean.

Ahhh…so you’re one of those: “I’m gonna be an imagineer!!!” Types?

You're clearly arguing "Pandora was to promote the new(ly continuing) Avatar franchise. Therefore they need something to promote in order to motivate boosting X dead area. Therefore they're gonna let Dinoland die more, because they've nothing to promote."

No…it was cause universal had a major IP coup/addition and Bob was flat footed…and it worked under the circumstances

Let me counter that argument: Seven Dwarves Mine Train in MK.

Fantasyland expansion, circa 2014 (Iger's "first term," incidentally).

The very dead Snow White's Scary Adventures was shut down and replaced with a DP Meet & Greet, but the new Mine Train was then built as part of said expansion.

Because they were “adding” one dumbo spinner and the immensely popular little mermaid (bet no bump there this week?)

Iger had…to that point…added a soarin clone and midway mania…in 8 years…for 4 parks.
Perception is a thing for ego Bob

A boost, if you will.

So how was travel from 2008-2011/12? Remember all that stuff?

What was that promoting?

That universal had opened probably the best themed lands in US since dak opened and Disney…hadn’t?

Go back and watch the avatar and NFL announcements…Rasulo if I recall? See if that elixir seemed “sweet”

 

[MisterPenguin]

Ah, fair enough.

The "small pads" would require quite a bit of finesse, I'd say, and each would get a single ride. Biggest one's right between Tower of Terror and RnRC.

Curious where that "Back of House" remnant is you're referring to, unless you mean the area just before the GE entrance, across the street from Muppets....
View attachment 721457

Here's the problem: That part of the parking lot is where the DHS entrance is.
View attachment 721469
So, we're not talking about a DHS expansion there. Could be another smaller park, but...

Entrances can be moved. Parking lots built on. Parking garages added.

Below, the Yellow is the expansion pad within SWL. The purple are other expansion pads. The green is all 'back of house' that can be converted into park space.

Don't forget that everything from Walt Disney Presents to the former Ariel show to all or part of Launch Bay can be razed and repurposed.

[Thanks to @marni1971 for identifying the yellow and purple pads.]

And the Orange is an 'easy' expansion of SWL. And the Orange and Yellow together can be converted into park space.

 

[Eric M Blake]

Ahhh…so you’re one of those: “I’m gonna be an imagineer!!!” Types?

No…it was cause universal had a major IP coup/addition and Bob was flat footed…and it worked under the circumstances

Because they were “adding” one dumbo spinner and the immensely popular little mermaid (bet no bump there this week?)

Iger had…to that point…added a soarin clone and midway mania…in 8 years…for 4 parks.
Perception is a thing for ego Bob

So how was travel from 2008-2011/12? Remember all that stuff?

That universal had opened probably the best themed lands in US since dak opened and Disney…hadn’t?

Go back and watch the avatar and NFL announcements…Rasulo if I recall? See if that elixir seemed “sweet”

You're REALLY arguing all over the place, man. I don't have the SLIGHTEST idea what you're trying to get at, here.

I mean...by your own argument, Disney's got a BIG motivation to boost its parks right NOW, because of Universal Orlando's incoming Epic Universe.

So what are you arguing they're gonna do?

 

[Eric M Blake]

Entrances can be moved. Parking lots built on. Parking garages added.

True, but it'd kinda require a massive change in the park's layout, considering where the "Main street" is, etc.

That said, I like what you're saying at the end--more on that in a second.

Below, the Yellow is the expansion pad within SWL. The purple are other expansion pads. The green is all 'back of house' that can be converted into park space.

Don't forget that everything from Walt Disney Presents to the former Ariel show to all or part of Launch Bay can be razed and repurposed.

[Thanks to @marni1971 for identifying the yellow and purple pads.]

View attachment 721524

Oh I actually agree with you on the green, but don't let Walter see that.

Yeah, the yellow is pretty much inevitably gonna be a third Star Wars ride. The purples ARE possibilities, absolutely. I especially like the one between B&TB and Fantasmic.

And the Orange is an 'easy' expansion of SWL. And the Orange and Yellow together can be converted into park space.

View attachment 721525

Now see, looking at the orange, I can REALLY see that as ripe for expansion. Especially since, again, that part of the parking lot is farthest away from the entrance.

The woods in the yellow, then, can easily fill the parking lot needs, especially following a major park expansion like the Orange.

I love it.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

You're REALLY arguing all over the place, man. I don't have the SLIGHTEST idea what you're trying to get at, here.

I mean...by your own argument, Disney's got a BIG motivation to boost its parks right NOW, because of Universal Orlando's incoming Epic Universe.

So what are you arguing they're gonna do?

You don’t seem to have any grasp of Disney park history, financial goals or operations

I’m in a different “bucket”

I’m giving you snipits of literally decades of history that a lot of us have followed.

I’m also respecting your right to engage, disagree and give your opinions…even if you’re mostly not correct…and not spike them. Like Marni…

Now. Can you go back to that silly 5th park thread make your case? Include specifics…make an argument like Lt. Caffey…
But look up “park cannibalization” first

 

[Eric M Blake]

You don’t seem to have any grasp of Disney park history, financial goals or operations

I’m in a different “bucket”

I’m giving you snipits of literally decades of history that a lot of us have followed.

I’m also respecting your right to engage, disagree and give your opinions…even if you’re mostly not correct…and not spike them. Like Marni…

Now. Can you go back to that silly 5th park thread make your case? Include specifics…make an argument like Lt. Caffey…
But look up “park cannibalization” first

I'll turn your request onto you, and see if you can spot the contradiction you've made in your argument.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

I'll turn your request onto you, and see if you can spot the contradiction you've made in your argument.

Make a case…and I will consider it. Use numbers, history, economics to make that case. I can give you a rubric if you want?

I think I have the seniority on the union scale here…I wanna see what you got?

 

[BlakeW39]

I agree to an extent, with one particular example:

Replacing The Great Movie Ride with what can best be described as Mr Toad's Wild Ride, But With Mickey.

As for replacing the Backlot Tour with Galaxy's Edge and Toy Story Land...GE can pretty much be constantly counted on to be packed. It's paying off well. TSL you may think doesn't live up to potential...but Slinky and Toy Story Mania are certainly popular.

It is what it is.

SWGE and TSL are packed because they don't have enough capacity, SWGE was marred by budget cuts and a focus on the sequel trilogy, and TSL just sucks, like Pixar Pier level suck. They're popular sure but that's because the park is small and has little to do, and both lands are new and shiny and also based on wildly popular IP.

I actually agree--I'd much prefer a better Dinoland.

Hence why I wrote...

What do you think?

yeah I like the idea of a better dinosaur themed land. and long term I think its a good move for the park. but obviously something like that could never happen because Bob needs that movie IP to greenlight anything

You're clearly arguing "Pandora was to promote the new(ly continuing) Avatar franchise. Therefore they need something to promote in order to motivate boosting X dead area. Therefore they're gonna let Dinoland die more, because they've nothing to promote."

Let me counter that argument: Seven Dwarves Mine Train in MK.

Err... it's actually the other way around. Disney doesn't build entire theme park lands with the goal of promoting a new movie. They use the clout of movie IP to promote the parks

Yeah...considering how Moana is getting a home in Communicore Plaza at Epcot *as we speak*, I'm kinda skeptical of the idea that they're also gonna put her in AK so soon after.

I'm more thinking Moana was tossed around as a potential idea until they decided to put her in Epcot...so they went to the other idea--Zootopia.

the Moana blue sky for DAK was announced in 2022, well after Journey of Water was announced for EPCOT. So she was planned to be in both parks. Stupid, I know, but TWDC seems to be very invested in the IP

 

[BlakeW39]

anyways with the Indy stuff... don't count on it. short term I agree with others that investment in DHS will be minimal. They 'gave it their all'... and current DHS is what Bob's 'all' looks like. Pretty pathetic really

but even further out, Dial of Destiny is about to be a turd, and because of that I doubt WDC will invest substantially the IP for the foreseeable future. Once again, they "gave it their all".... and it was terrible, as usual

Thanks Kathy!

 

[DisneyFanatic12]

Just for the whole Dinoland crowd… I think Primeval Whirl was demolished more so because of general maintenance issues. The company that made the ride dissolved, so their best way to get parts would be to scrap them. Only… do you really want to scrap parts for a ride that kids have died and been injured on (at other parks). They’ve been wanting to kill that silly carnival area for a while, and I think that one of the tracks having unrepairable (or at least, not easily repaired) issues just caused Primeval Whirl to get demolished and prepped for redevelopment.

Will anything happen? I don’t know. BUT, something will eventually happen, and it’s better to have a crater than a rotting ride at AK.

 

[Eric M Blake]

anyways with the Indy stuff... don't count on it. short term I agree with others that investment in DHS will be minimal. They 'gave it their all'... and current DHS is what Bob's 'all' looks like. Pretty pathetic really

but even further out, Dial of Destiny is about to be a turd, and because of that I doubt WDC will invest substantially the IP for the foreseeable future. Once again, they "gave it their all".... and it was terrible, as usual

Thanks Kathy!

Frankly I'd be very surprised if James Mangold, the director of LOGAN, could possibly make a bad Indy film. But that's just me.

 

[Phicinfan]

You're REALLY arguing all over the place, man. I don't have the SLIGHTEST idea what you're trying to get at, here.

I mean...by your own argument, Disney's got a BIG motivation to boost its parks right NOW, because of Universal Orlando's incoming Epic Universe.

So what are you arguing they're gonna do?

Here is where the argument falls, Disney may not feel they have to respond to Epic Universe. They didn't respond right away to Potter.

 

[Eric M Blake]

Here is where the argument falls, Disney may not feel they have to respond to Epic Universe. They didn't respond right away to Potter.

I dunno.... I suspect all the talk about future investments in the parks is something of a response.

And as was said elsewhere, the extent of that may depend on how successful Epic Universe turns out to be. So the response may not be "right away," but it's certainly "in mind."