'Strange World' Disney's 2022 Animated Film

[brb1006]

I hope they knock it out of the park with this one, and if they don’t, I really hope we don’t see the same sort of ideological reaching and tub-thumping that has marred this thread.

Heck, I can already sense The Star characters and Valentino the Goat to become popular merchandise opportunities and a popular Christmas gift.

 

[jeangreyforever]

He also tells us multiple times that he is gay, and yet he is twisting himself into knots to complain over and over again about the gay content (5 minutes or less) in a movie he has told us he has not seen and will not see. Something is not adding up here.

Your issue seems very clear to me based on how quickly you typecasted me because I like Hayley Mills and Ann Miller. You can't seem to believe that there are individuals out there who don't fit very rigid boxes and stereotypes. It is indeed possible for someone from the current generation to know that there were people who existed past 1990. Similarly, it's possible that the entire gay community isn't a monolith. I think a lot of straights don't realize that LGBTQIA is really not as united a front as it's made out to be. The bigots group them all together because they hate what every letter stands for, but I've seen so much division between the letters. There are many old-fashioned gays and lesbians who cannot understand transgender people and think they're self-hating homophobes who would rather change their gender than come out. When Elliot Page came out as trans, there was a significant amount of lesbian outcry on Twitter who were ed off that they had lost one of their own since Elliot Page previously identified as a lesbian.

 

[TP2000]

Your issue seems very clear to me based on how quickly you typecasted me because I like Hayley Mills and Ann Miller. You can't seem to believe that there are individuals out there who don't fit very rigid boxes and stereotypes. It is indeed possible for someone from the current generation to know that there were people who existed past 1990. Similarly, it's possible that the entire gay community isn't a monolith. I think a lot of straights don't realize that LGBTQIA is really not as united a front as it's made out to be. The bigots group them all together because they hate what every letter stands for, but I've seen so much division between the letters. There are many old-fashioned gays and lesbians who cannot understand transgender people and think they're self-hating homophobes who would rather change their gender than come out. When Elliot Page came out as trans, there was a significant amount of lesbian outcry on Twitter who were ed off that they had lost one of their own since Elliot Page previously identified as a lesbian.

Stop making sense! It ruins the funny conversations here.

 

[LittleBuford]

There are many old-fashioned gays and lesbians who cannot understand transgender people and think they're self-hating homophobes who would rather change their gender than come out.

I’m not sure why you deem that “old-fashioned”. I’m 40, which I suppose makes me almost middle-aged (yikes!), and I very much stand with my trans brothers and sisters. What’s the sense in getting angry with someone for being who they are?

 

[jeangreyforever]

I dunno. You’re a new member and a number of members have been recently banned for a bunch of heinous comments. And then we see a bunch of new members mysteriously appearing. So, I dunno. I’m not a detective or anything. Just seems……..interesting. That’s all.

I've had an account here for a year or so. I can't even remember when I created it because I only would visit every few months and like certain posts. The lack of any interesting new Disney content kept me from bothering. I only started posting now because of Andor, but I'm feeling very little motivation to stay based on the reception I've received from numerous users trying to pigeonhole me as this or that based on their narrow-minded criteria. I'm not surprised to hear this forum's had a problem with hate speech but I can certainly think of one offending user I'd add to that list. Thank you for explaining though.

 

[CaptainAmerica]

Has anyone ever told you you’d make a good politician?

 

[jeangreyforever]

I’m not sure why you deem that “old-fashioned”. I’m 40, which I suppose makes me almost middle-aged (yikes!), and I very much stand with my trans brothers and sisters. What’s the sense in getting angry with someone for being who they are?

What I'm not sure about is why you somehow viewed that statement as applying to you! Old-fashioned doesn't even mean older in age. There are young people who can have old-fashioned views, or old souls. There are older people who might be the most young at heart and savvy with contemporary media and jargon. My point is that there are some gays and lesbians who view the transgender community as an attack on their existence. Some of them feel they had finally reached mainstream acceptance in society and weren't being viewed negatively anymore, but the emergence of the trans community meant that all the old stereotypes started to prop back up and Republicans were conflating the two groups again. I don't believe that the majority of the gay and lesbian community feels this way (or I hope not anyway), but the sad truth is that there are many who do believe this. Similarly, I've seen gays and lesbians who don't believe in bisexuality and think it's just a copout to fully coming out. Lots of straight people have that view as well. My point is that one community, one especially as diverse as the full LGBTQIA community, is not a monolith and should never be treated as such.

 

[jeangreyforever]

I'm not a total expert on the beach movies, I only have hazy memories of them from my youth. But I now have them on DVD and would play them at the family beach house for my young nephews years ago. They're perfect for summer movie nights! But I just Googled, and Annette was pregnant in 1965 for filming of How To Stuff A Wild Bikini, and rather obviously Annette was the only girl to not wear a bikini for that one! She wore capri pants and blousey tops for the entire movie.

I'll cut out the middle man and offer you this, because this thread deserves a little wholesome entertainment!



Speaking of wholesome, I find it quite telling that we can't type the lyrics, or even the title, of Jaboukie's latest song in this thread without being wildly obscene and likely banned from this website for life. Nor do I feel comfortable linking to the music video, or even any of the industry media pieces that discussed his new song.

There had to be another option for the voice of Ethan Clade, but the Burbank execs hired him instead. Very interesting choice, to say the least.

I've seen them playing on TV but tbh even for Annette, I haven't felt enough reason to bother to watch them. Maybe for Frankie Avalon though lol. And wow, Annette really is overdressed in that promotional pic. I suppose fans would be so used to seeing her mostly covered that it might not have been as jarring that she's got pants on as well.

And thank you for the video! It was a wonderful watch. Annette truly seems ageless there.

I looked up the voice actor after he was mentioned here but after a cursory glance, I decided I'd probably be better of not looking any longer lol. I don't even want to imagine what the song title is called but he seems like a very niche figure in the music industry. Very fringe. For me, the biggest surprise besides his content, is that they chose a 28-year old to voice a teenager. I know that's normal for the princesses but for the non-princess characters, Disney generally does hire actual teens to play teens for authenticity. For this character, I would figure they would have looked for an unknown gay youth to play a gay youth.

 

[LittleBuford]

What I'm not sure about is why you somehow viewed that statement as applying to you! Old-fashioned doesn't even mean older in age. There are young people who can have old-fashioned views, or old souls. There are older people who might be the most young at heart and savvy with contemporary media and jargon. My point is that there are some gays and lesbians who view the transgender community as an attack on their existence. Some of them feel they had finally reached mainstream acceptance in society and weren't being viewed negatively anymore, but the emergence of the trans community meant that all the old stereotypes started to prop back up and Republicans were conflating the two groups again. I don't believe that the majority of the gay and lesbian community feels this way (or I hope not anyway), but the sad truth is that there are many who do believe this. Similarly, I've seen gays and lesbians who don't believe in bisexuality and think it's just a copout to fully coming out. Lots of straight people have that view as well. My point is that one community, one especially as diverse as the full LGBTQIA community, is not a monolith and should never be treated as such.

I agree with your overall point. It’s your framing that I didn’t quite understand, and while I still don’t think “old-fashioned” really characterises it well (in the UK, for example, there is widespread anti-trans feeling even among otherwise very “progressive” people), I thank you for clarifying what you meant.

 

[TP2000]

What I'm not sure about is why you somehow viewed that statement as applying to you! Old-fashioned doesn't even mean older in age. There are young people who can have old-fashioned views, or old souls. There are older people who might be the most young at heart and savvy with contemporary media and jargon. My point is that there are some gays and lesbians who view the transgender community as an attack on their existence. Some of them feel they had finally reached mainstream acceptance in society and weren't being viewed negatively anymore, but the emergence of the trans community meant that all the old stereotypes started to prop back up and Republicans were conflating the two groups again. I don't believe that the majority of the gay and lesbian community feels this way (or I hope not anyway), but the sad truth is that there are many who do believe this. Similarly, I've seen gays and lesbians who don't believe in bisexuality and think it's just a copout to fully coming out. Lots of straight people have that view as well. My point is that one community, one especially as diverse as the full LGBTQIA community, is not a monolith and should never be treated as such.

All valid stuff! And I agree with almost every word. (I have a few different nuances on the trans community, but not worth digging into)

This relates to Strange World because there's now this monolith of thought by many in Hollywood and corporate media that any objection to gay content in a children's animated movie equals objection to gay content as a whole, and thus the person who objects to it is a bigot and hateful person to be scorned.

When in reality, the average parents of 8 year old boys who paused on buying tickets to Strange World are probably not bigoted hate-mongers. They just have reservations about introducing homosexuality to their children at that young age, among many other mature topics. They'd likely be more comfortable with it at 14 or older though. Or perhaps not at all? That's their sacred right as parents to instill cultural values in their children; hence the dramatically worse box office performance of Strange World in majority Catholic countries, for example.

I have no opposition to gay characters in PG-13 or R rated movies, like the recent Marvel films that have gay characters. I still think there's work to be done to make those gay characters more natural and organic to the storyline, but the script writers are improving there. Or they are getting better at managing directives from HR.

But I do have opposition to gay characters in PG rated family animated films like Lightyear or Strange World. It's pushing the envelope too hard at too young an age demographic, and it's a bad business decision. And yet I'm still a gay man after coming to that conclusion. Diversity!

 

[CaptainAmerica]

Totally agree with that, but Robin Williams and Bob Saget were all well-known household celebrity names by then, particularly Robin Williams. I still think of Mork & Mindy first when ever anyone says his name, then his huge catalog of wonderful films and funny appearances on Johnny Carson fill in the rest for me.

Jaboukie is a minor C List celebrity who very few Americans know. So when you read his raunchy song lyrics or his equally raunchy interview answers, it's shocking. And a really weird casting decision considering many parents are already on the defensive with Disney's latest family cartoons.

Out of curiosity @CaptainAmerica, have you read his song lyrics and/or seen his latest music video?

Yeah, he's gross, but I came to terms with the idea of separating the art from the artist (or one piece of art by the same artist from another) a long time ago. I have no problem watching The Cosby Show with my kids, or rewatching an old Chris Benoit wrestling match. Pretty much every celebrity is degenerate at best and abhorrent at worst so I need to sever some things in order to be at peace with consuming any pop culture whatsoever.

 

[jeangreyforever]

I agree with your overall point. It’s your framing that I didn’t quite understand, and while I still don’t think “old-fashioned” really characterises it well (in the UK, for example, there is widespread anti-trans feeling even among otherwise very “progressive” people), I thank you for clarifying what you meant.

I'm not British so I can't speak much about the British sentiment towards transgender people but I have noticed that the UK has a very disturbing amount of transphobia, much higher than even in the US. I don't know why it is but there's a reason most TERFs, including the infamous JK Rowling, all hail from the UK. I'm very curious to know why that is because even Americans seem accepting in comparison to the British. I have a British aunt who is quite progressive as well, and certainly doesn't have a problem with gays and lesbians, but transgender people she cannot understand. She's very similar to JK Rowling ideology-wise which is disheartening. I'm not sure what there is in the water there but the trend I've noticed is that a lot of the TERFs are very staunch feminists, but the faux-feminist, man-hating kind who generally had bad experiences with men and have basically sworn them off. For some reason they can't seem to distinguish between men and transgender women which is why they go so hard after transgender women and refuse to empathize with them.

But in that sense too, I think the reason old-fashioned can still apply is that even though transgender people have existed for eons, their existence has really only been pushed by the media in the last couple of years. Gays and lesbians have had a longer time for their existence to percolate and become known and eventually accepted (or somewhat accepted) whereas the trans community is still in the very early stages and there are a lot of misconceptions that exist about them still. Which is why I think old-fashioned works because transpeople are too "new" for many who would consider themselves liberals or progressives. They need more time to understand the trans community. Hillary Clinton is a good example because she's spoken openly about how she didn't really understand the trans community and wasn't quite so accepting but her daughter Chelsea instantly was. And they both agreed that it was probably a generational thing and Chelsea was helping to educate Hillary.

 

[mickEblu]

Totally agree with that, but Robin Williams and Bob Saget were all well-known household celebrity names by then, particularly Robin Williams. I still think of Mork & Mindy first when ever anyone says his name, then his huge catalog of wonderful films and funny appearances on Johnny Carson fill in the rest for me.

Jaboukie is a minor C List celebrity who very few Americans know. So when you read his raunchy song lyrics or his equally raunchy interview answers, it's shocking. And a really weird casting decision considering many parents are already on the defensive with Disney's latest family cartoons.

Out of curiosity @CaptainAmerica, have you read his song lyrics and/or seen his latest music video?

To me it just comes across as them doubling down. Like “look how progressive we are!” Like you said he’s not a well known actor. What’s the point? And yet the people at Disney made the decision to cast him. Which is why I said they need to do a little cleaning house because there seems to be no check and balances going on in there.

 

[TP2000]

Pretty much every celebrity is degenerate at best and abhorrent at worst so I need to sever some things in order to be at peace with consuming any pop culture whatsoever.

Agreed. When I lived in SoCal I had that point graphically shown to me on several occasions via brushes with "celebrity greatness", as David Letterman used to say. It's a smarmy and fake industry full of smarmy and fake people.

Hollywood!

I still have a short list of favorite actors and actresses and entertainers though that I try to protect in my mind as different and better, almost normal people. Catherine O'Hara, Dean Martin, Eugene Levy, Jennifer Coolidge, etc.

But the vast majority of the rest? Generally awful people who are fake and smarmy. But then, they're actors so they can act normal and kind when the camera turns on.

 

[jeangreyforever]

All valid stuff! And I agree with almost every word. (I have a few different nuances on the trans community, but not worth digging into)

This relates to Strange World because there's now this monolith of thought by many in Hollywood and corporate media that any objection to gay content in a children's animated movie equals objection to gay content as a whole, and thus the person who objects to it is a bigot and hateful person to be scorned.

When in reality, the average parents of 8 year old boys who paused on buying tickets to Strange World are probably not bigoted hate-mongers. They just have reservations about introducing homosexuality to their children at that young age, among many other mature topics. They'd likely be more comfortable with it at 14 or older though. Or perhaps not at all? That's their sacred right as parents to instill cultural values in their children; hence the dramatically worse box office performance of Strange World in majority Catholic countries, for example.

I have no opposition to gay characters in PG-13 or R rated movies, like the recent Marvel films that have gay characters. I still think there's work to be done to make those gay characters more natural and organic to the storyline, but the script writers are improving there. Or they are getting better at managing directives from HR.

But I do have opposition to gay characters in PG rated family animated films like Lightyear or Strange World. It's pushing the envelope too hard at too young an age demographic, and it's a bad business decision. And yet I'm still a gay man after coming to that conclusion. Diversity!

It reminds me of the box office disaster that was Bros. The media painted such a picture that if you didn't go watch the movie to support the first mainstream romantic gay comedy as a hit (and I'm not entirely sure it was really the first anyway but ok), you were a bigot. And the problem was that even if you forget straight audiences, it was gay audiences who weren't showing up. The community that the movie was made for. The gay community was not interested in Bros at all.

Even for Strange World, I have to wonder why Disney felt this should be their first movie with a gay protagonist. Maybe they thought that making it an action-adventure science fiction movie with a diverse, ensemble cast and a father-son relationship would somehow cancel out the "gayness" and make people who would otherwise not be interested in watching it feel slightly better about paying for a ticket. I'm not sure, but it certainly didn't feel like a movie aimed at the gay community and I don't know any gay friends of mine, Disney fans or non-Disney fans, who were even remotely interested. There's a reason Elsa and Ariel are gay icons, whereas no one would ever claim that about the protagonist of this movie. So not only did Disney probably lost the more conservative audience by including a gay protagonist, they certainly didn't get the gay audience either by making a character who seems to hold virtually no appeal to them.

I don't personally have an issue with gay characters in children's movies, but that being said, I know many parents who do and would not screen this for their kids. Disney needs to remember that whenever they've always been a family friendly company and even going back to the days of Walt, their movies catered to the entire family. Walt didn't pander to kids only because he knew parents were the ones who bought tickets and Disney movies need to be a whole family event. Even with the introduction of other animation movies from competitive studios, Disney (as well as Pixar) still has the advantage because movies like Ice Age or Minions usually cater just to kids and not parents and families in general. Disney has gradually been losing their status as family friendly. Previous attempts to appear cool to teens and target them instead of their main demographic have all been flops. The Black Cauldron and Treasure Planet were Disney's two most infamous animated flops and now Strange World joins them for committing the same cardinal sin as those movies: not making family-friendly products. A movie with a gay protagonist should be family-friendly and an in ideal world that would be the case, but we don't live in that world...yet. We may not live to see it in our lifetimes but the truth of the matter is that as of now, Disney needs to realize they're losing their core audience. And it's not just gay characters that's a factor, it's been a little bit of everything that's turning off middle-class Americans. I don't remember who posted it here pages back but the video with the Argentinian sports team that turned Disney into a punchline, referencing their recent trend of adding diversity for the sake of diversity even when it doesn't make sense, has alienated a lot of people too. It gets tiresome for Middle America to see it flaunted constantly in their face, being told if they don't approve then they're bigots. I think that type of reasoning only works to turn them into bigots by casting them out completely and making them feel as if they have no place.

 

[TwilightZone]

Yeah I'm with @Californian Elitist and @Disney Analyst on this one. Nobody had a problem with Robin Williams as Genie or Bob Saget as Danny Tanner.

Thinking about it more there's also Justin Timberlake who starred in trolls. Sure he did have a boy band past, but what I remember him from as someone who grew up in the 00s is creating some pretty raunchy songs (for the time period). In fact I think him stopping making those songs is what killed his career!

 

[Disney Irish]

Yeah I'm with @Californian Elitist and @Disney Analyst on this one. Nobody had a problem with Robin Williams as Genie or Bob Saget as Danny Tanner.

Or Paul Reuben's as Rex....

 

[TP2000]

To me it just comes across as them doubling down. Like “look how progressive we are!” Like you said he’s not a well known actor. What’s the point? And yet the people at Disney made the decision to cast him. Which is why I said they need to do a little cleaning house because there seems to be no check and balances going on in there.

There's definitely a story there behind Burbank's casting of Jaboukie as Ethan Clade. I doubt we'll ever get that story in full, but you just know it's there.

I'm reminded of TDA's decision to hire Todrick Hall to do the music and choreography for Disneyland's new parade Magic Happens. There wasn't any other composer and choreographer you could hire in Southern California to do that work for a Disneyland parade? You had to hire a guy with multiple legal problems and financial troubles who also plays into drug culture and various illegal activities? For an afternoon parade at a theme park???

Baffling! Stay classy TDA!

 

[TwilightZone]

There's definitely a story there behind Burbank's casting of Jaboukie as Ethan Clade. I doubt we'll ever get that story in full, but you just know it's there.

I'm reminded of TDA's decision to hire Todrick Hall to do the music and choreography for Disneyland's new parade Magic Happens. There wasn't any other composer and choreographer you could hire in Southern California to do that work for a Disneyland parade? You had to hire a guy with multiple legal problems and financial troubles who also plays into drug culture and various illegal activities? For an afternoon parade at a theme park???

Baffling! Stay classy TDA!

Todrick also was in the masked singer which is (or was, I don't think it has much left to live for a variety of reasons) a pretty kid friendly show all things considered.

And I don't think all the negative press surrounding Todrick this year really put a dent in his career

 

[TP2000]

Or Paul Reuben's as Rex....

When Paul Reubens voiced Rex in 1986, he was known to most Americans for Pee-Wee's Big Adventure, a PG rated comedy film from 1985.

A year after Star Tours opened in January, 1987, Pee-Wee Herman had a big TV special called Pee-Wee's Christmas Special, a show that is still mandatory viewing in my house this time of year. Paul Reuben's legal problems came along many years after his 1980's fame and voice acting as Rex in Star Tours. After being the key word there. Years after.

And unlike Jaboukie's music video that would get me banned from this site for life, I can link Pee-Wee's hilarious opening musical number to his Christmas special here and wish everyone a very Merry Christmas!



My God, that's just so good! Charo, for goshsakes! The (fake) Marines doing that choreography with their covers!

Jaboukie could learn a thing or two from Pee-Wee about subtlety and subversive messaging.