News Splash Mountain retheme to Princess and the Frog - Tiana's Bayou Adventure

[retr0gate]

They aren’t using the story of PatF. Two of that story’s best characters - Facilier and Ray - aren’t appearing. The main characters aren’t frogs.

As shocking as it is, the ride isn’t using the music from PatF. It’s using new songs, perhaps tied to the D+ show.

If the new ride features anything like the number of AAs in the current Splash, it will be a complete deviation from WDWs pattern over the last two decades at a moment when the company is making drastic budget cuts. It’s speculation, but speculation based on all available evidence - akin to speculating that WB is unlikely to gree light a mega-budget film based on a new IP in the next 12 months.

For sure, I'm aware of the whole "Tiana needs to find a missing ingredient" / salt mine story and it certainly isn't anything groundbreaking. I think there's something to be appreciated about how the story elements and the actual ride elements of Splash in its current form supplement each other. That said, the story has little to do with my enjoyment of the ride. What makes Splash a personal favorite of mine is the structure and the setting of the attraction itself. I think it'd be ignorant for me to assume that the show scenes will receive as little change as the exterior, but I'd be satisfied if the overall vibe of the attraction stays the same. It'd be jarring to be floating in a log down the streets of New Orleans, but everything we've seen so far leads me to believe it will more or less be the same ride through the bayou, just with some characters swapped out. If they didn't go with the ridiculous "character adventure" format for the name, this could very well just have been an updated Splash Mountain. As for the music, the use of new songs is welcome in my eyes because I feel it will help to give this ride more of an individual identity separate from the source material. I feel as though PaTF will be to this ride what SotS was to Splash.

You've got me there with the animatronics, but I still see it as 50 / 50. We really won't know until we see the final result. While their track record certainly screams that we'll likely see less this time around, there's still enough evidence (for me at least) to support the idea that the opposite may be true. WDI isn't known for their genius decisions as of late, but they do know how much is riding on this overhaul. I don't think they would set themselves up for failure. Ultimately, the budget is out of their hands, but we've already seen enough that shows they are committed to providing something that is of equal quality to Splash in its current form, if not improved upon. I spoke to Imagineers working on this attraction at D23 and was told the America Sings animatronics will *supposedly* not be reused. That alone worried me. I felt a lot better, however, after hearing that a new "cast" of characters was being developed for the attraction. We may not have seen all of them yet, but I'm hopeful based on what they have shown. I can't imagine they'll only develop one or two new animatronic characters, nevermind the likelihood of duplicates of certain critters such as the one shown here.

 

[_caleb]

With how little actual artwork we’ve seen, how lackluster the sparse materials displayed have been, how relatively fast the redo will be, and how little ballyhoo there has been over what is arguably the most substantial makeover to a “legendary” ride in Disney parks history, I’m concerned that one of management’s primary goals with the conversion is to keep it as low profile as possible to avoid notice by certain news networks and other interested parties seeking to stir widespread controversy. Given recent events, it seems like management’s mandate is that the change be fast, low key, and under the radar - just get it done and hope no one important notices. That bodes ill for the quality of the redo, a project that should at least approach the scope of Cosmic Rewind. It’s disheartening to see the company this sheepish about a project in which they need to be fully invested.

So if they change a "legendary" ride as little and as quickly as possible, that "bodes ill?" I don't understand. You don't want them to change it, but if they do, you want them to change everything, spend a lot, and take a long time?

 

[retr0gate]

Also worth mentioning, the otter pictured above is the same one featured in this previously released concept art:

Plans obviously change over time and I don't want to place too much emphasis on a single piece of concept art, but if this artwork is anything to go by we can make out at least ~8 more characters not counting Naveen, Tiana, Louis and the otter. The specific number here isn't necessarily important, but it pushes the idea that the flume will still be lined with musical critters.

 

[_caleb]

I fear that if they do a poor job, the blame will cast upon those who notice that and mention it - as our not being accepting of its inclusiveness, and empowerment - which is a relatively common tactic these days.
I hope they do a spectacular job, with spectacular visuals, and fun songs - but when I watch the videos of the ride in fully functioning form, I see a bar that is very high.

I'm going to be super honest here. While I know there are some fans who are unhappy about this change because they are going to miss an attraction they love, I think some (maybe even many) people are pessimistic about the whole thing because of the perceived rationale behind the change and all the social/political perspectives they perceive to be behind it.

 

[_caleb]

They aren’t using the story of PatF. Two of that story’s best characters - Facilier and Ray - aren’t appearing. The main characters aren’t frogs.

You say all of this with certainty. Do you know it to be true?

And I've said it before (maybe on page 43, lol) that the ONLY reason Tony Baxter is on board is to save face between the diehard fans of Splash and TWDC...as soon as it opens, (well, maybe within 6 months) Tony is going to retire and sail off into the sunset...if anyone thinks the multitude of unique AA's, which is one of the reasons Splash was so awesome IMHO, are going to remain, I can't (and won't) help you...I'd offer to sell you the Brooklyn Bridge, but these days, you'd make too much money from tolls...perhaps some crypto currency from FTX

So you're saying Tony Baxter has no integrity and is allowing himself to be used by Disney to appease diehard fans?

 

[Smiley/OCD]

For sure, I'm aware of the whole "Tiana needs to find a missing ingredient" / salt mine story and it certainly isn't anything groundbreaking. I think there's something to be appreciated about how the story elements and the actual ride elements of Splash in its current form supplement each other. That said, the story has little to do with my enjoyment of the ride. What makes Splash a personal favorite of mine is the structure and the setting of the attraction itself. I think it'd be ignorant for me to assume that the show scenes will receive as little change as the exterior, but I'd be satisfied if the overall vibe of the attraction stays the same. It'd be jarring to be floating in a log down the streets of New Orleans, but everything we've seen so far leads me to believe it will more or less be the same ride through the bayou, just with some characters swapped out. If they didn't go with the ridiculous "character adventure" format for the name, this could very well just have been an updated Splash Mountain. As for the music, the use of new songs is welcome in my eyes because I feel it will help to give this ride more of an individual identity separate from the source material. I feel as though PaTF will be to this ride what SotS was to Splash.

You've got me there with the animatronics, but I still see it as 50 / 50. We really won't know until we see the final result. While their track record certainly screams that we'll likely see less this time around, there's still enough evidence (for me at least) to support the idea that the opposite may be true. WDI isn't known for their genius decisions as of late, but they do know how much is riding on this overhaul. I don't think they would set themselves up for failure. Ultimately, the budget is out of their hands, but we've already seen enough that shows they are committed to providing something that is of equal quality to Splash in its current form, if not improved upon. I spoke to Imagineers working on this attraction at D23 and was told the America Sings animatronics will *supposedly* not be reused. That alone worried me. I felt a lot better, however, after hearing that a new "cast" of characters was being developed for the attraction. We may not have seen all of them yet, but I'm hopeful based on what they have shown. I can't imagine they'll only develop one or two new animatronic characters, nevermind the likelihood of duplicates of certain critters such as the one shown here.
View attachment 679059

I certainly agree with your arguments and hopes for SM except for one thing…if our best dreams are achieved and the AA’s are used and just “reskinned”, they why didn’t the repairs continue if they are staying? Wouldn’t it have made more sense to continue repairs on the AA’s for 3 reasons…1) it’s cheaper to repair a few at a time then all at once. 2) less major repairs after shutdown equals a faster turnaround time…3) by continuing maintenance, we would have saved about 400 pages on this thread on what a s**t show Splash has become. Just the fact that they HAVEN’T been maintained, adds more fuel to the fire that they will just be removed.

 

[Smiley/OCD]

You say all of this with certainty. Do you know it to be true?

So you're saying Tony Baxter has no integrity and is allowing himself to be used by Disney to appease diehard fans?

Yup

 

[_caleb]

Yup

So is this a new development--Tony Baxter's supposed lack of integrity--or has he always been a person of low character?

What sort of person was he when he proposed an attraction that included characters from Song of the South?

 

[Smiley/OCD]

So is this a new development--Tony Baxter's supposed lack of integrity--or has he always been a person of low character?

What sort of person was he when he proposed an attraction that included characters from Song of the South?

I’m not jumping down that rabbit hole…

 

[retr0gate]

I certainly agree with your arguments and hopes for SM except for one thing…if our best dreams are achieved and the AA’s are used and just “reskinned”, they why didn’t the repairs continue if they are staying? Wouldn’t it have made more sense to continue repairs on the AA’s for 3 reasons…1) it’s cheaper to repair a few at a time then all at once. 2) less major repairs after shutdown equals a faster turnaround time…3) by continuing maintenance, we would have saved about 400 pages on this thread on what a s**t show Splash has become. Just the fact that they HAVEN’T been maintained, adds more fuel to the fire that they will just be removed.

Because they're not necessarily staying. At least based on what I was told, although I'm taking it all with a grain of salt. I can't imagine they wont use ANY of the America Sings animatronics (for example, I think they'd be crazy not to reuse the Gator Boys). The new characters I'm referring to are not merely reskins, these would be entirely new animatronics.

 

[Smiley/OCD]

Because they're not necessarily staying. At least based on what I was told, although I'm taking it all with a grain of salt. I can't imagine they wont use ANY of the America Sings animatronics (for example, I think they'd be crazy not to reuse the Gator Boys). The new characters I'm referring to are not merely reskins, these would be entirely new animatronics.

As kind as they don’t have those “projected” faces like FEA, I’m good with that.

 

[retr0gate]

As kind as they don’t have those “projected” faces like FEA, I’m good with that.

I hope to god they don't. Can't imagine they would do that with the animals, but can't be too certain about the human characters. Something akin to the animatronics in the Tokyo Beauty and the Beast attraction would be much more ideal, especially now that we know they're capable of doing it.

 

[Casper Gutman]

Also worth mentioning, the otter pictured above is the same one featured in this previously released concept art:
View attachment 679060
View attachment 679061
Plans obviously change over time and I don't want to place too much emphasis on a single piece of concept art, but if this artwork is anything to go by we can make out at least ~8 more characters not counting Naveen, Tiana, Louis and the otter. The specific number here isn't necessarily important, but it pushes the idea that the flume will still be lined with musical critters.

Come on, we’ve been through this before, and very recently. Artwork from much later in the process for GotG showed a spectacular preshow with Groot and Rocket AAs and a life size Milano. That was for the most expensive ride Disney ever built based on the most successful franchise in pop culture history - and it was cut. In that case, Disney defenders explained at length that anyone who trusted concept art was a fool.

There is absolutely no precedent in the last 20 years of Disney being able or willing to build an AA ride on the scale of Splash. When was the last AA-dependent ride E-ticket - Dinosaur? I could see an argument for RotR, but that seems more like a (well done) example of the sort of rides Disney has been building and what we can expect here - one AA in a largely empty room in front of a screen.

 

[James Alucobond]

Artwork from much later in the process for GotG showed a spectacular preshow with Groot and Rocket AAs and a life size Milano.

This is a strange read of that concept art. Rocket, Groot, and the robotic swing arm looked like physical setpieces, but the Milano definitely did not.

 

[Casper Gutman]

This is a strange read of that concept art. Rocket, Groot, and the robotic swing arm looked like physical setpieces, but the Milano definitely did not.

It looks to me like a physical ship in front of a projected starfield. Presumably the other cast members would have appeared as projection effects in the cockpit.

 

[James Alucobond]

It looks to me like a physical ship in front of a projected starfield. Presumably the other cast members would have appeared as projection effects in the cockpit.

I just think that's really difficult to assume from the artwork, and I'm not entirely sure how it would've made much sense? Like, you wouldn't be standing in a cargo bay while the hatch leading into the vacuum of space was open right in front of you. It would definitely make more sense for you to be seeing the ship on a viewscreen.

 

[Casper Gutman]

I just think that's really difficult to assume from the artwork, and I'm not entirely sure how it would've made much sense? Like, you wouldn't be standing in a cargo bay while the hatch leading into the vacuum of space was open right in front of you. It would definitely make more sense for you to be seeing the ship on a viewscreen.

You’d be looking at a docked ship. I don’t think scientific realism is a big concern here - the most famous room on RotR is a docking bay with a giant opening into space.

It’s pretty clear that a lot of the convoluted plot rigmarole in the CR pre-show is making excuses for why the Guardians don’t appear in person as originally planned.

 

[Joel]

I'm going to be super honest here. While I know there are some fans who are unhappy about this change because they are going to miss an attraction they love, I think some (maybe even many) people are pessimistic about the whole thing because of the perceived rationale behind the change and all the social/political perspectives they perceive to be behind it.

This factors into things somewhat for me, although much less than the confirmed details of the retheme that have been released thus far. To be super honest myself, I don't really see a problem with it. Splash is being replaced -- whether one agrees with it or not -- due to "perceived" (lol) motivations other than simply creating a better attraction. Even if you agree with those motivations, it seems pretty understandable how you could be suspect of the resulting output.

Of course, that doesn't mean it won't still turn out to be great! I'm much less hopeful than I was when it was first announced, though.

 

[retr0gate]

Come on, we’ve been through this before, and very recently. Artwork from much later in the process for GotG showed a spectacular preshow with Groot and Rocket AAs and a life size Milano. That was for the most expensive ride Disney ever built based on the most successful franchise in pop culture history - and it was cut. In that case, Disney defenders explained at length that anyone who trusted concept art was a fool.

There is absolutely no precedent in the last 20 years of Disney being able or willing to build an AA ride on the scale of Splash. When was the last AA-dependent ride E-ticket - Dinosaur? I could see an argument for RotR, but that seems more like a (well done) example of the sort of rides Disney has been building and what we can expect here - one AA in a largely empty room in front of a screen.

I agree it was rather disappointing that we didn't get the rumored Groot and Rocket animatronic, but I think the life size Milano is a bit of stretch. It would've been nice, but having seen that concept art there's nothing to imply it would have been a physical prop instead of a screen (like what we have now). Even with that in mind, Guardians is a roller coaster and nobody was expecting a multitude of animatronics aside from those that were rumored for the preshow. A better comparison would be if Cosmic Rewind reutilized the pre-existing Universe of Energy vehicles / layout, and they kept the dino diorama without any of the actual dinos. In its current form, the lack of animatronics in Cosmic Rewind is disappointing but I wouldn't say it was all that surprising given the nature of the ride.

The same can be said for a lot of recent WDI projects, specifically those that were overhauls of pre-existing attractions. They may not have been animatronic heavy, but in what cases were they expected to be? Runaway Railway? Definitely not, and the concept never implied otherwise. Frozen Ever After? Yes actually, and in that case, there was not really a net loss. The ride isn't good, but it's not like I expected a retheme of Maelstrom to have any more animatronics than Frozen currently has. Splash Mountain is a musical log flume through a bayou turning into... a musical log flume through a bayou. There's nothing to imply a drastic reduction in characters aside from Disney's track record of cutting an animatronic or two from projects that don't suffer without them.

 

[James Alucobond]

You’d be looking at a docked ship. I don’t think scientific realism is a big concern here - the most famous room on RotR is a docking bay with a giant opening into space.

It’s pretty clear that a lot of the convoluted plot rigmarole in the CR pre-show is making excuses for why the Guardians don’t appear in person as originally planned.

I'll leave it to your read, I suppose, but I think it's a bit much to fault them for the Milano when it's very easy to see how the intention may have been different from how you happened to interpret it. Rocket, Groot, sure; I think the concept art is clear there, with them standing on what look like physical platforms in the space. The ship itself, eh, I don't think what was shown could be considered deceptive in that case (other than the obvious difference in narrative from what we got in the final product).