News Reedy Creek Improvement District and the Central Florida Tourism Oversight District

[GoofGoof]

They could, and someone would report about it. Nobody has reported that, and as you said, they don’t need to keep it secret about meeting. Ergo, they’re not meeting. Although, I would think they would want to keep the contents of meetings secret, which would also be hard.

I’m not trying to belabor this point, but lobbyists are consultants who work for multiple clients. It’s a guy in a suit meeting a politician for breakfast or drinks or on a phone call. They aren’t wearing mouse ears or a name tag that says I lobby for Disney. There’s nothing to report. I am not sure I follow the logic that if nobody is reporting about it they are not meeting.

 

[lazyboy97o]

I’m not trying to belabor this point, but lobbyists are consultants who work for multiple clients. It’s a guy in a suit meeting a politician for breakfast or drinks or on a phone call. They aren’t wearing mouse ears or a name tag that says I lobby for Disney. There’s nothing to report. I am not sure I follow the logic that if nobody is reporting about it they are not meeting.

Lobbyist register who they represent. People know who they represent. Staff who set up meetings know the attendees. It’s not just the two people who know about the meeting. Such meetings happening in the context of one publicly demonizing and disavowing the other makes it noteworthy.

 

[GoofGoof]

Lobbyist register who they represent. People know who they represent. Staff who set up meetings know the attendees. It’s not just the two people who know about the meeting. Such meetings happening in the context of one publicly demonizing and disavowing the other makes it noteworthy.

So you are saying you don’t think any Disney lobbyist could have called or reached out to any FL politician without it becoming a news story? Are their phones tapped? Seems unlikely.

 

[lazyboy97o]

So you are saying you don’t think any Disney lobbyist could have called or reached out to any FL politician without it becoming a news story? Are their phones tapped? Seems unlikely.

You are not supposing a single conversation. You repeatedly suggest there are ongoing negotiations. That means multiple conversations, multiple meetings over some amount of time.

 

[mmascari]

So you are saying you don’t think any Disney lobbyist could have called or reached out to any FL politician without it becoming a news story? Are their phones tapped? Seems unlikely.

I'm suggesting that nobody with any Disney connection is offering any suggestions on a way to resolve the current situation in any discussions with anyone outside the company.

They could be talking about all kinds of other stuff. Business and governments are very good at compartmentalization.

Any solutions suggested by Disney would be news to someone. Someone who is likely to want to publish them and they would be reported.

If Disney discussed with the government that they were not going to give an inch and government could go pound sand. That would be leaked and reported about. Probably as an example of standing up against a woke company.

If Disney discussed rolling over completely and volunteered to pay off/buy 100% of the RCID bonds as a way to make the entire dissolution easy and have the least local impacts while Disney paid for everything. That would be leaked and reported about. Announced from on high as a total victory.

If Disney discussed some in between plan. That would be leaked and reported about. Just about any amount of concession would be proclaimed a victory and used to show wining.

Disney talking to anyone about any solutions at all right now is all downside. There's no advantage to not just waiting and lots of risk for any conversation at all.

If this was two good faith parties both with well defined goals, both of whom could achieve an advantage with early discussion and both would benefit from those details not being public and used against each other as leverage, then they would be talking. None of those are true and any details would clearly be used in public to gain advantage over the other. That nobody is talking about that advantage is evidence that they're not talking.

 

[GoofGoof]

You are not supposing a single conversation. You repeatedly suggest there are ongoing negotiations. That means multiple conversations, multiple meetings over some amount of time.

There are multiple people in the legislature. It would make sense they would reach out to more than one. I never suggested there were any sort of formal negotiations occurring. Simply people representing Disney reaching out to see what their options are.

I'm suggesting that nobody with any Disney connection is offering any suggestions on a way to resolve the current situation in any discussions with anyone outside the company.

They could be talking about all kinds of other stuff. Business and governments are very good at compartmentalization.

Any solutions suggested by Disney would be news to someone. Someone who is likely to want to publish them and they would be reported.

If Disney discussed with the government that they were not going to give an inch and government could go pound sand. That would be leaked and reported about. Probably as an example of standing up against a woke company.

If Disney discussed rolling over completely and volunteered to pay off/buy 100% of the RCID bonds as a way to make the entire dissolution easy and have the least local impacts while Disney paid for everything. That would be leaked and reported about. Announced from on high as a total victory.

If Disney discussed some in between plan. That would be leaked and reported about. Just about any amount of concession would be proclaimed a victory and used to show wining.

Disney talking to anyone about any solutions at all right now is all downside. There's no advantage to not just waiting and lots of risk for any conversation at all.

If this was two good faith parties both with well defined goals, both of whom could achieve an advantage with early discussion and both would benefit from those details not being public and used against each other as leverage, then they would be talking. None of those are true and any details would clearly be used in public to gain advantage over the other. That nobody is talking about that advantage is evidence that they're not talking.

Who suggested they were talking to anyone about solutions or offering anything? All I said is there were likely people representing Disney who have had discussions with FL politicians about the situation. These guys are very likely meeting with the same politicians on any number of other issues and possibly about multiple clients too. They aren’t necessarily exclusively discussing RCID.

You guys are suggesting that if anyone had those discussions, even a phone call, that it would somehow go public and be a major news story. I just don’t think this story is that important to the vast majority of people and I’m not sure who would leak that info. If the politician goes to the press and reports that a lobbyist who represents Disney mentioned RCID to him what would he get out of that? He’d burn that relationship and local politicians depend on these relationships to stay in office.

 

[mmascari]

Who suggested they were talking to anyone about solutions or offering anything?

Isn't that what negotiating means?

If they're negotiating, aren't two sides trying to work out details that would allow them to come to a resolution? Each side getting some stuff it wants and giving up other stuff so that the whole is better than the parts and they can get to a resolution. If you're not doing those things, are you really negotiating?

These guys are very likely meeting with the same politicians on any number of other issues and possibly about multiple clients too. They aren’t necessarily exclusively discussing RCID.

I'm sure they're talking about all kinds of other things. As I said, business and governments are very good at compartmentalization. But, if they're not hitting on RCID topics, they're not talking about a solution to RCID. That's kind of the point.

You guys are suggesting that if anyone had those discussions, even a phone call, that it would somehow go public and be a major news story. I just don’t think this story is that important to the vast majority of people and I’m not sure who would leak that info. If the politician goes to the press and reports that a lobbyist who represents Disney mentioned RCID to him what would he get out of that? He’d burn that relationship and local politicians depend on these relationships to stay in office.

So, yes, I'm saying if Disney was to suggest anything at all to those same politicians as a way to resolve the current problem, those politicians would announce it publicly and get it reported on as a way to show their victory over Disney. It would certainly be better PR for them than the nonsense word salad magic resolution that the problems will just go away they're saying now. At the very least they would announce something like "Disney has agreed to X as part of resolving the impacts to local communities as a result of RCID changes".

It would be victory declared. Basically, any suggestion about anything by Disney today puts Disney in a weaker position. There's no reason for them to not wait it out much longer. So, there's no reason for them to talk to anyone. We all know that legislatures make much faster action when there is a deadline looming over them. All of the advantage to Disney comes from waiting as long as possible before suggesting anything at all.

Again, it doesn't even matter what type of solution Disney wants anywhere between just give up RCID and fight to the end or anywhere in between. The advantage to Disney is the same for all of them to just wait longer and not talk to anyone about RCID at all.

 

[lazyboy97o]

There are multiple people in the legislature. It would make sense they would reach out to more than one. I never suggested there were any sort of formal negotiations occurring. Simply people representing Disney reaching out to see what their options are.

That’s still multiple meeting with multiple people all happening in complete secrecy.

Who suggested they were talking to anyone about solutions or offering anything? All I said is there were likely people representing Disney who have had discussions with FL politicians about the situation. These guys are very likely meeting with the same politicians on any number of other issues and possibly about multiple clients too. They aren’t necessarily exclusively discussing RCID.

You guys are suggesting that if anyone had those discussions, even a phone call, that it would somehow go public and be a major news story. I just don’t think this story is that important to the vast majority of people and I’m not sure who would leak that info. If the politician goes to the press and reports that a lobbyist who represents Disney mentioned RCID to him what would he get out of that? He’d burn that relationship and local politicians depend on these relationships to stay in office.

You have repeatedly hypothesized about negotiations happening. What you are now trying to describe are nothing close to negotiations.

You don’t see how a politician would benefit from announcing that Disney came to them in secret begging for their special tax status to be protected? That they wouldn’t brag about standing firm and protecting the people? That’s a huge win. You keep assuming there is some sort of actual policy goal and a desire to be civil. There is not. This is about being vindictive.

 

[lazyboy97o]

Ok, that ever you say

Disney did almost nothing in California in response to the closure. Most of the strongly worded statements came from industry groups Disney hid behind, not Disney themselves. Disney never actually acted. They didn’t challenge the closure or defy any part of it. You’re ignoring Disney’s actual actions during the pandemic and years of actions before to fit your desired view of the pandemic.

 

[Brian]

Most of the strongly worded statements came from industry groups Disney hid behind, not Disney themselves. Disney never actually acted. They didn’t challenge the closure or defy any part of it. You’re ignoring Disney’s actual actions during the pandemic and years of actions before to fit your desired view of the pandemic.

 

[Disstevefan1]

Disney did almost nothing in California in response to the closure. Most of the strongly worded statements came from industry groups Disney hid behind, not Disney themselves. Disney never actually acted. They didn’t challenge the closure or defy any part of it. You’re ignoring Disney’s actual actions during the pandemic and years of actions before to fit your desired view of the pandemic.

Just my opinion.

It seemed like to me, Disney’s response to California at the time was the Lake Nona announcement.

And the pause or cancel of Lake Nona was Disney’s response to DeSantis.

Folks are free to feel any way that choose, that there is never ideology, politics, emotions, that go into decision making, and the pause and or cancel of Lake Nona was strictly the bean counters having another look at the numbers.

But don’t worry folks, any cost savings they are losing by not moving to Lake Nona, they can easily make up by increasing prices even more at the theme parks.

 

[lazyboy97o]

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A bunch of words, not actual action. They finally made statements themselves but never actually did anything to force the issue.

 

[el_super]

It seemed like to me, Disney’s response to California at the time was the Lake Nona announcement.

No. Moving WDI to Florida has been in the cards for decades. Disney said this plan was in place since 2019, and there's no real reason to think otherwise. This is in line with other attempts to move sub-divisions/teams/segments to Florida over the years, including Corporate Offices and Feature Animation. Expansion in California has just become prohibitively expensive for Disney.

And the pause or cancel of Lake Nona was Disney’s response to DeSantis.

Mostly likely this isn't true. If Disney were really doing this to score political points, the time to do it would have been a couple months ago in the heat of battle. Disney announcing it now, is only to their benefit and no one else.

 

[Brian]

A bunch of words, not actual action. They finally made statements themselves but never actually did anything to force the issue.

They placed partial blame for the 28,000 layoffs on Newsom's refusal. I'd say that would count as trying to force the issue.

That said, we all knew they were going to do the layoffs regardless of how the CA situation turned out, and Newsom became a convenient scapegoat. That he was made the scapegoat at all, however, was noteworthy.

 

[Disstevefan1]

No. Moving WDI to Florida has been in the cards for decades. Disney said this plan was in place since 2019, and there's no real reason to think otherwise. This is in line with other attempts to move sub-divisions/teams/segments to Florida over the years, including Corporate Offices and Feature Animation. Expansion in California has just become prohibitively expensive for Disney.



Mostly likely this isn't true. If Disney were really doing this to score political points, the time to do it would have been a couple months ago in the heat of battle. Disney announcing it now, is only to their benefit and no one else.

We can agree to disagree. In the end, it doesn’t matter, RCID will be gone and Lake Nona will not happen, no matter what the true motivations were.

Also the relationship between TWDC and Florida (for whatever reason, pick one) is damaged and probably can’t be fixed. What used to be a partnership, is now an adversarial relationship.

One thing I am confident about is WDW will do fine no matter what.

In my opinion, the big losers here are the taxpayers of Orange and Osceola counties and whatever locals would have benefited from Lake Nona.

Another thing I am confident about is that folks will disagree with this post, again, it doesn’t matter.

 

[flynnibus]

Also the relationship between TWDC and Florida (for whatever reason, pick one) is damaged and probably can’t be fixed.

Nah - politics changes with the seasons.

The same kind of hostility swing happened in anaheim too. Then… people changed and the game continued to be played.

Disney isn’t leaving - the game will continue

 

[lazyboy97o]

They placed partial blame for the 28,000 layoffs on Newsom's refusal. I'd say that would count as trying to force the issue.

That said, we all knew they were going to do the layoffs regardless of how the CA situation turned out, and Newsom became a convenient scapegoat. That he was made the scapegoat at all, however, was noteworthy.

They didn’t sue. They didn’t defy orders despite being in a county where enforcement was lax. They didn’t act. They stomped their feet a bit and used it as an excuse.

 

[mmascari]

Also the relationship between TWDC and Florida (for whatever reason, pick one) is damaged and probably can’t be fixed. What used to be a partnership, is now an adversarial relationship.

It's not all of Florida though, it's the current majority legislature and governor. Those will both change over time. Disney can take an active role in speeding up or slowing down how fast that change happens if it wants, or just wait it out.

Different time horizons.

It only can't be fixed if they don't think it will ever change. Otherwise, it's just how hard is it to wait it out for that change.

 

[Disstevefan1]

People will disagree because you keep repeating the same baseless, disjointed stuff over and over again.

Thanks for clarifying again it makes no difference.

 

[Disstevefan1]

Nah - politics changes with the seasons.

The same kind of hostility swing happened in anaheim too. Then… people changed and the game continued to be played.

Disney isn’t leaving - the game will continue

Ha, agreed! Disney can't leave Florida. WDW makes too much money and will continue to for a long, long time.