News Reedy Creek Improvement District and the Central Florida Tourism Oversight District

[lazyboy97o]

Ok, that ever you say

Disney did almost nothing in California in response to the closure. Most of the strongly worded statements came from industry groups Disney hid behind, not Disney themselves. Disney never actually acted. They didn’t challenge the closure or defy any part of it. You’re ignoring Disney’s actual actions during the pandemic and years of actions before to fit your desired view of the pandemic.

 

[Brian]

Most of the strongly worded statements came from industry groups Disney hid behind, not Disney themselves. Disney never actually acted. They didn’t challenge the closure or defy any part of it. You’re ignoring Disney’s actual actions during the pandemic and years of actions before to fit your desired view of the pandemic.

 

[Disstevefan1]

Disney did almost nothing in California in response to the closure. Most of the strongly worded statements came from industry groups Disney hid behind, not Disney themselves. Disney never actually acted. They didn’t challenge the closure or defy any part of it. You’re ignoring Disney’s actual actions during the pandemic and years of actions before to fit your desired view of the pandemic.

Just my opinion.

It seemed like to me, Disney’s response to California at the time was the Lake Nona announcement.

And the pause or cancel of Lake Nona was Disney’s response to DeSantis.

Folks are free to feel any way that choose, that there is never ideology, politics, emotions, that go into decision making, and the pause and or cancel of Lake Nona was strictly the bean counters having another look at the numbers.

But don’t worry folks, any cost savings they are losing by not moving to Lake Nona, they can easily make up by increasing prices even more at the theme parks.

 

[lazyboy97o]

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A bunch of words, not actual action. They finally made statements themselves but never actually did anything to force the issue.

 

[el_super]

It seemed like to me, Disney’s response to California at the time was the Lake Nona announcement.

No. Moving WDI to Florida has been in the cards for decades. Disney said this plan was in place since 2019, and there's no real reason to think otherwise. This is in line with other attempts to move sub-divisions/teams/segments to Florida over the years, including Corporate Offices and Feature Animation. Expansion in California has just become prohibitively expensive for Disney.

And the pause or cancel of Lake Nona was Disney’s response to DeSantis.

Mostly likely this isn't true. If Disney were really doing this to score political points, the time to do it would have been a couple months ago in the heat of battle. Disney announcing it now, is only to their benefit and no one else.

 

[Brian]

A bunch of words, not actual action. They finally made statements themselves but never actually did anything to force the issue.

They placed partial blame for the 28,000 layoffs on Newsom's refusal. I'd say that would count as trying to force the issue.

That said, we all knew they were going to do the layoffs regardless of how the CA situation turned out, and Newsom became a convenient scapegoat. That he was made the scapegoat at all, however, was noteworthy.

 

[Disstevefan1]

No. Moving WDI to Florida has been in the cards for decades. Disney said this plan was in place since 2019, and there's no real reason to think otherwise. This is in line with other attempts to move sub-divisions/teams/segments to Florida over the years, including Corporate Offices and Feature Animation. Expansion in California has just become prohibitively expensive for Disney.



Mostly likely this isn't true. If Disney were really doing this to score political points, the time to do it would have been a couple months ago in the heat of battle. Disney announcing it now, is only to their benefit and no one else.

We can agree to disagree. In the end, it doesn’t matter, RCID will be gone and Lake Nona will not happen, no matter what the true motivations were.

Also the relationship between TWDC and Florida (for whatever reason, pick one) is damaged and probably can’t be fixed. What used to be a partnership, is now an adversarial relationship.

One thing I am confident about is WDW will do fine no matter what.

In my opinion, the big losers here are the taxpayers of Orange and Osceola counties and whatever locals would have benefited from Lake Nona.

Another thing I am confident about is that folks will disagree with this post, again, it doesn’t matter.

 

[flynnibus]

Also the relationship between TWDC and Florida (for whatever reason, pick one) is damaged and probably can’t be fixed.

Nah - politics changes with the seasons.

The same kind of hostility swing happened in anaheim too. Then… people changed and the game continued to be played.

Disney isn’t leaving - the game will continue

 

[lazyboy97o]

They placed partial blame for the 28,000 layoffs on Newsom's refusal. I'd say that would count as trying to force the issue.

That said, we all knew they were going to do the layoffs regardless of how the CA situation turned out, and Newsom became a convenient scapegoat. That he was made the scapegoat at all, however, was noteworthy.

They didn’t sue. They didn’t defy orders despite being in a county where enforcement was lax. They didn’t act. They stomped their feet a bit and used it as an excuse.

 

[mmascari]

Also the relationship between TWDC and Florida (for whatever reason, pick one) is damaged and probably can’t be fixed. What used to be a partnership, is now an adversarial relationship.

It's not all of Florida though, it's the current majority legislature and governor. Those will both change over time. Disney can take an active role in speeding up or slowing down how fast that change happens if it wants, or just wait it out.

Different time horizons.

It only can't be fixed if they don't think it will ever change. Otherwise, it's just how hard is it to wait it out for that change.

 

[Disstevefan1]

People will disagree because you keep repeating the same baseless, disjointed stuff over and over again.

Thanks for clarifying again it makes no difference.

 

[Disstevefan1]

Nah - politics changes with the seasons.

The same kind of hostility swing happened in anaheim too. Then… people changed and the game continued to be played.

Disney isn’t leaving - the game will continue

Ha, agreed! Disney can't leave Florida. WDW makes too much money and will continue to for a long, long time.

 

[Chip Chipperson]

Mostly likely this isn't true. If Disney were really doing this to score political points, the time to do it would have been a couple months ago in the heat of battle. Disney announcing it now, is only to their benefit and no one else.

It could be that they needed to gather data to weigh the costs of staying put in Anaheim (at least for now) with the benefits of moving those jobs to FL to see if it would be too big of a loss to justify postponing the move. Remember, the governor and legislature didn't give much warning that the dissolution bill was going to happen, so any immediate reaction by Disney would be of the knee-jerk variety. It could be that there were some back-channel, unofficial messages sent back and forth between Disney and to governor (i.e., a corporate lawyer knows someone in the DeSantis administration and has informal discussions) and when those went nowhere, Disney decided to pump the brakes on the move. They certainly have enough plausible deniability that it's in response to DeSantis and the legislature's actions (assuming they'd even want to deny it if pressed for an explanation). It's not like DeSantis can prove that it's NOT because the costs for building materials are too high right now - and really, the only way for him to publicly criticize Disney over the move would be for him to admit that he's responsible for making them think twice about it in the first place. We may never know the real motivation for the postponement, but it's certainly possible that it's retaliation after reviewing the available data. Publicizing that would only draw more attention to the conflict, so it's better to say nothing for now.

 

[Disstevefan1]

It could be that they needed to gather data to weigh the costs of staying put in Anaheim (at least for now) with the benefits of moving those jobs to FL to see if it would be too big of a loss to justify postponing the move. Remember, the governor and legislature didn't give much warning that the dissolution bill was going to happen, so any immediate reaction by Disney would be of the knee-jerk variety. It could be that there were some back-channel, unofficial messages sent back and forth between Disney and to governor (i.e., a corporate lawyer knows someone in the DeSantis administration and has informal discussions) and when those went nowhere, Disney decided to pump the brakes on the move. They certainly have enough plausible deniability that it's in response to DeSantis and the legislature's actions (assuming they'd even want to deny it if pressed for an explanation). It's not like DeSantis can prove that it's NOT because the costs for building materials are too high right now - and really, the only way for him to publicly criticize Disney over the move would be for him to admit that he's responsible for making them think twice about it in the first place. We may never know the real motivation for the postponement, but it's certainly possible that it's retaliation after reviewing the available data. Publicizing that would only draw more attention to the conflict, so it's better to say nothing for now.

I agree with your speculations. But be careful, you may be accused of making baseless claims

 

[lazyboy97o]

I agree with your speculations. But be careful, you may be accused of making baseless claims

He isn’t repeating stuff that is unknown as fact or repeating long debunked nonsense. That’s the difference. You continue to declare that the District is definitely being dissolved, now declare that Lake Nona isn’t happening and ignore the years of trends of moving jobs to Florida.

 

[Disstevefan1]

He isn’t repeating stuff that is unknown as fact or repeating long debunked nonsense. That’s the difference. You continue to declare that the District is definitely being dissolved, now declare that Lake Nona isn’t happening and ignore the years of trends of moving jobs to Florida.

RCID as we know it will be dissolved. Is that not a fact? I think there was a bill passed.

I hope somehow this doesn’t happen, but right now it’s the law. Will there be a similar replacement to RCID, I hope so, but it is my opinion what it will be will NOT be the same as RCID and WDW will lose the flexibility it had with the original RCID.

Regardless of how many jobs moved to Florida, Lake Nona has been paused. I will clarify it’s my opinion it’s not going to happen. I know, my opinion is baseless.

Yes, I have no documentation or receipts to back up my speculations, I am just an outsider looking at what is happening and speculating albeit baseless…

 

[lazyboy97o]

RCID as we know it will be dissolved. Is that not a fact? I think there was a bill passed.

I hope somehow this doesn’t happen, but right now it’s the law. Will there be a similar replacement to RCID, I hope so, but it is my opinion what it will be will NOT be the same as RCID and WDW will lose the flexibility it had with the original RCID.

Regardless of how many jobs moved to Florida, Lake Nona has been paused. I will clarify it’s my opinion it’s not going to happen. I know, my opinion is baseless.

Yes, I have no documentation or receipts to back up my speculations, I am just an outsider looking at what is happening and speculating albeit baseless…

The District being dissolved is not a fact. There’s a decent argument on multiple angles that the law doesn’t actually apply to Reedy Creek.

Jobs were being moved to Florida before the pandemic, so it was not caused by the pandemic as you repeatedly claimed. Explorations of ways to move or shrink Walt Disney Imagineering in specific have been occurring for even longer.

Lake Nona as a project is not paused. The work is continuing. Movement of people is paused, but the construction work was not halted.

 

[Disstevefan1]

The District being dissolved is not a fact. There’s a decent argument on multiple angles that the law doesn’t actually apply to Reedy Creek.

Jobs were being moved to Florida before the pandemic, so it was not caused by the pandemic as you repeatedly claimed. Explorations of ways to move or shrink Walt Disney Imagineering in specific have been occurring for even longer.

Lake Nona as a project is not paused. The work is continuing. Movement of people is paused, but the construction work was not halted.

NOTE: These are my hopes; not based on any facts or documentation -
My hopes are -
1. Whatever happens with the special district we used to call RCID, the taxpayers of Orange county and Osceola counties are not stuck with paying the bond back.
2. Whatever is currently being built in Lake Nona does indeed end up being the east coast headquarters for Disney parks and experiences and not just completed and sold off.

 

[GoofGoof]

Isn't that what negotiating means?

If they're negotiating, aren't two sides trying to work out details that would allow them to come to a resolution? Each side getting some stuff it wants and giving up other stuff so that the whole is better than the parts and they can get to a resolution. If you're not doing those things, are you really negotiating?


I'm sure they're talking about all kinds of other things. As I said, business and governments are very good at compartmentalization. But, if they're not hitting on RCID topics, they're not talking about a solution to RCID. That's kind of the point.

It’s very possible to talk about a situation without offering anything. Just a phone call feeling out the other side and seeing what they have to say and telling them what you would like to have happen. I wouldn’t even call that a negotiation.

How do you burn a relationship more than calling the company woke and that you don't need woke companies in the state? I'm not sure how much worse a politician could make it's relationship with Disney than what they've already done. There's no bridge left to burn here.

I think you completely misread what I wrote. The relationship burned would be between the lobby firm and/or lobbyist themself and the politician and has little to do with Disney. The implication was that if a lobbyist was to even make a call to a politician they would immediately be publicly outed and it would be reported to the media.

 

[lazyboy97o]

It’s very possible to talk about a situation without offering anything. Just a phone call feeling out the other side and seeing what they have to say and telling them what you would like to have happen. I wouldn’t even call that a negotiation.

You did call it a negotiation.

I think you completely misread what I wrote. The relationship burned would be between the lobby firm and/or lobbyist themself and the politician and has little to do with Disney. The implication was that if a lobbyist was to even make a call to a politician they would immediately be publicly outed and it would be reported to the media.

Why would the politicians involved keep this secret? Announcing such contact is a win for them. It’s exactly what they want, Disney groveling. What is the motivation for keeping all of this secret?