Rumor New DAS System at Walt Disney World 2024

[Chi84]

I think you missed his point

If I did, I apologize. But there's nothing in the ADA that expressly addresses accommodations that allow disabled persons to avoid waiting in lines. And people stand in line in a lot of places other than Disney, like festivals, ballparks, concerts, etc.

If no DOJ guidelines are forthcoming, the only way this accommodation gets addressed is through the courts. I'm just now familiarizing myself with the ADA, but I know very well how courts work. I can't think of a more time-consuming, inefficient and altogether less desirable way of coming up with a system than through a series of court cases.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

@EPCOT-O.G. raised a good point. Universal is not going to be apples to apples. You can’t really call them more inclusive because their rides are designed for able bodied guests, while there are tons of rides at Disney that are accessible to a wider variety of people with disabilities.

That is true…

But if you look at it…a lot of wdw rides have about a 5’8” comfort limit…especially in magic kingdom

 

[Angel Ariel]

It’s only a few months old and it’s being challenged legally (albeit the same system being used by a different company)

It's not being challenged at universal. It's being challenged at six flags, where it's been in use since 2020. IBCCES' accessibility card itself isn't just a few months old.

 

[DryerLintFan]

That is true…

But if you look at it…a lot of wdw rides have about a 5’8” comfort limit…especially in magic kingdom

I’m 5’11” and i haven’t had a problem. Racking my brain trying to think which ones you mean. Maybe HM because the side seats have a lower ceiling?

 

[Angel Ariel]

Bingo. Exactly wby its baffling anyone would argue against proof

The 6 flags case isn't arguing about proof itself. Summary from disability scoop:

"The complaint indicates that I.L. applied for and received an Individual Accessibility Card from IBCCES, but that on multiple visits to Six Flags Magic Mountain employees declined him accommodations because they said he didn’t look like he should qualify for the Attraction Access Program. In one instance, the lawsuit states that a park employee ripped up the Individual Accessibility Card and told I.L. that “he did ‘not look disabled enough’ to have the listed accommodations.”

Six Flags Sued Over Disability Access Policy

Six Flags is facing allegations of discrimination, with a lawsuit contending that the system its parks and several others use to provide disability accommodations violates the ADA.

www.disabilityscoop.com

 

[Splash4eva]

The 6 flags case isn't arguing about proof itself. Summary from disability scoop:

"The complaint indicates that I.L. applied for and received an Individual Accessibility Card from IBCCES, but that on multiple visits to Six Flags Magic Mountain employees declined him accommodations because they said he didn’t look like he should qualify for the Attraction Access Program. In one instance, the lawsuit states that a park employee ripped up the Individual Accessibility Card and told I.L. that “he did ‘not look disabled enough’ to have the listed accommodations.”

Six Flags Sued Over Disability Access Policy

Six Flags is facing allegations of discrimination, with a lawsuit contending that the system its parks and several others use to provide disability accommodations violates the ADA.

www.disabilityscoop.com

I have not followed the law suit but if this is the only reason for the law suit then the decision should have no impact on Disneys decision imo. I cant picture Disney EVER denying someone who has been approved by a 3rd party saying hey sorry you dont look disabled enough go wait in that 120 minute line.

 

[The Mom]

The 6 flags case isn't arguing about proof itself. Summary from disability scoop:

"The complaint indicates that I.L. applied for and received an Individual Accessibility Card from IBCCES, but that on multiple visits to Six Flags Magic Mountain employees declined him accommodations because they said he didn’t look like he should qualify for the Attraction Access Program. In one instance, the lawsuit states that a park employee ripped up the Individual Accessibility Card and told I.L. that “he did ‘not look disabled enough’ to have the listed accommodations.”

Six Flags Sued Over Disability Access Policy

Six Flags is facing allegations of discrimination, with a lawsuit contending that the system its parks and several others use to provide disability accommodations violates the ADA.

www.disabilityscoop.com

Then that's an employee education problem - the park didn't deny issuing the card, individual employees took it upon themselves to ignore the card. But it still comes down to the park for not making it clear that employees could not make decisions about whether a guest had a legitimate reason as long as they had a valid card.

 

[Angel Ariel]

Then that's an employee education problem - the park didn't deny issuing the card, individual employees took it upon themselves to ignore the card. But it still comes down to the park for not making it clear that employees could not make decisions about whether a guest had a legitimate reason as long as they had a valid card.

I don't know all the facts of the case, but it's possible it was one of the "audits" 6 flags refers to in its accessibility page:

"Guests with cognitive disorders, disabilities or mobility impairments who request helpful accommodations must obtain the IBCCES Individual Accessibility Card (IAC) by registering at www.accessibilitycard.org. Once a Guest has filled out the online application and uploaded necessary documentation, they will be able to access their digital Accessibility Card. Guests will present the IBCCES Accessibility Card and Information Sheet to the Ride Information Center, located on the left side, outside the main entrance gate, to receive any necessary accommodations.

Note: Only IBCCES can issue the IBCCES Accessibility Card, and not Six Flags.

PLEASE NOTE: The IBCCES will conduct audits to confirm the efficacy of provided information for an Individual Accessibility Card application. Individuals found to be fraudulently requesting or using the Attraction Accessibility Pass will be in violation of our Guest Code of Conduct and may be subject to civil penalties. Violators will also be asked to leave the park without any refund."

The only way for the final bolded section to happen would be in coordination with 6 Flags' Guest Relations. And the first bolded section makes it clear it is a 2 step program - get the IBCCES card, then go to 6 flags' guest relations to get their attraction access pass (which is the same process at Universal as well).

 

[Smiley/OCD]

Well…more workman’s comp…but yeah

No, it happens QUITE A BIT with SSD too…

 

[Chi84]

https://www.courthousenews.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/12/six-flags-suit.pdf

 

[Fido Chuckwagon]

Which may backfire (and by “may”…I mean a 100% chance)

Then it will be in the open and everyone will get a doctor who doesn’t care at all to write notes.

It would be a disaster

True story, I have a dermatologist I use who I was talking to about a Disney trip. He volunteered out of nowhere that he could get write me a note that I had some sort of skin condition that prevented me from standing in the sun if I wanted. I politely declined.

 

[Tha Realest]

True story, I have a dermatologist I use who I was talking to about a Disney trip. He volunteered out of nowhere that he could get write me a note that I had some sort of skin condition that prevented me from standing in the sun if I wanted. I politely declined.

Just a few hours ago @Trauma posed this series of questions:

A person with a severe disability goes to their primary care doctor and provides the information about what accommodations Disney is providing.

Primary care doctor, being intimately familiar with the disabled persons needs, determines those accommodations would not be sufficient for them to partake in the parks.

What Disney has decided, is irregardless of that fact, the guest will only receive what accommodations are available for their “group” of disability.

Just to be clear this is what you’re in favor of ?

Yes, for the example @Fido Chuckwagon brings up

 

[Fido Chuckwagon]

The 6 flags case isn't arguing about proof itself. Summary from disability scoop:

"The complaint indicates that I.L. applied for and received an Individual Accessibility Card from IBCCES, but that on multiple visits to Six Flags Magic Mountain employees declined him accommodations because they said he didn’t look like he should qualify for the Attraction Access Program. In one instance, the lawsuit states that a park employee ripped up the Individual Accessibility Card and told I.L. that “he did ‘not look disabled enough’ to have the listed accommodations.”

Six Flags Sued Over Disability Access Policy

Six Flags is facing allegations of discrimination, with a lawsuit contending that the system its parks and several others use to provide disability accommodations violates the ADA.

www.disabilityscoop.com

So, as I said the facts of the six flags case are pretty egregrious. However, the proof requirement is absolutely one of the things they raise. This could, of course, end up being a case where "bad facts make bad law," because, again, those facts are so egregious.

 

[Happyday]

https://www.courthousenews.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/12/six-flags-suit.pdf

Wow I just read through this... a lot to unpack. I don't have any "legal" knowledge so not sure of everything I read.

 

[lazyboy97o]

You should familiarize yourself with what companies are required to provide for accommodations. Even under these new plans, Disney is likely being more generous than just what’s required.

You and others keep talking about “what’s required” so why not point us to these requirements?

 

[networkpro]

You and others keep talking about “what’s required” so why not point us to these requirements?

Americans with Disabilities Act Title III Regulations

Title III of the ADA - regulations for businesses, including nonprofits meant to ensure that people with disabilities can access places of business and public accommodation.

www.ada.gov

If you read you will see where Disney has decided that 4 is a number that can be relied on as a maximum.

 

[Chi84]

You and others keep talking about “what’s required” so why not point us to these requirements?

The requirements I’m aware of are in the DOJ regulations, and they’re pretty extensive. As far as I know there isn’t any mention of the type of accommodation Disney is giving. I think what people are saying is that until there is something to the contrary, Disney is going above what is required.

 

[Jrb1979]

You and others keep talking about “what’s required” so why not point us to these requirements?

Take a look at what most other parks offer. That's most likely the extent of what's required. Most parks offer a boarding pass with 3 people can join the person who has the disability. They go up to the exit of the attraction, get a return time to board and are not allowed to ride anything til that time is up.

 

[lazyboy97o]

If I did, I apologize. But there's nothing in the ADA that expressly addresses accommodations that allow disabled persons to avoid waiting in lines. And people stand in line in a lot of places other than Disney, like festivals, ballparks, concerts, etc.

If no DOJ guidelines are forthcoming, the only way this accommodation gets addressed is through the courts. I'm just now familiarizing myself with the ADA, but I know very well how courts work. I can't think of a more time-consuming, inefficient and altogether less desirable way of coming up with a system than through a series of court cases.

That was my point. A number of people keep referring to things like “the guidelines” and “the requirements” as though there are specific rules already spelled out. They don’t exist. So one cannot claim that Disney is following specific regulations that don’t exist. Even the design standards, which are very specific and prescriptive, don’t cover a lot of scenarios.

 

[flynnibus]

In your scenario are you suggesting that when a cast member as a guest approaches guest relations or calls to set up DAS that the agent responding should contact their area of work and ask their leaders about their bathroom habits?

“Sorry lady, your manager says you don’t poop enough at work to qualify”

They wouldn't have to. A simple workflow could be as follows...

User registers for DAS with a developmental disability that has been concluded prevents them from waiting in a queue. Their name and details go into the computer. System can identify they are an employee and they get flagged.

Later, a second system reviews all employees who qualified for DAS and compares their work history and accommodations. If by some pre-determined rules of intersection of key data points happen, you boil the record up for manual evaluation. Someone in HR can review by inspecting the person's responsibilities, documented accommodations or reported limitations, and comparing with the DAS request.

Disney's purpose isn't to deny them the DAS when they apply - you don't want to deny people something they may need. Instead you post-analyze the data to look for irregularities, screen, and bubble up ones that methodically that seem suspicious. Then you assess, and either dismiss the alert, or take some other action of your choosing.

Point is, you make it an employee issue - not a denying accommodations issue. If someone ultimately is lying to get DAS, they put their park privileges and employer/employee relationship at risk... you don't try to screen them out of getting a DAS. You leave the rope...