News Zootopia and Moana Blue Sky concepts for Disney's Animal Kingdom

[Bocabear]

Well, not only are the names ridiculous word salad, but the definitions of the areas is even more out of whack and stupid...If they want to call the entire area at the front of the park One thing, it would make more sense...and with World Showcase as the back half of the park, perhaps the front half name should not begin with the word "World"...where are all the creative marketing people that work for Disney? is that really the best anyone could come up with? The Entire park is a literal knockoff of a classic World's Fair...Surely there could be some inspiration there....

 

[Marc Davis Fan]

Dinosaur *was thrilling. Not so much anymore. Truly Dino today is pretty crappy. BUT that isn't the fault of the ride, that is on Bob and really partly on Mike before him because as designed the attraction was solid

Dinosaur/CTX was certainly much better in the past… but I’d rate it as “solid” now and “excellent” in the past.

It seems to me like it has a more compelling story and more engaging things going on than, for example, Test Track, Mine Train, obviously Kali…

On the other hand, I guess it depends on how many animatronics are broken. I might just have had the good luck of usually riding when it’s in a fairly good state (e.g., not long after a refurb), so maybe I don’t have a good sense of how it sometimes/often is…?

 

[SpectreJordan]

Two reasons: 1) cost 2) space, below is a map of the area you mentioned, to the right side of Dinosaur is the berm between the park and the parking lot, can't really expand that way. To the left is some backstage facilities, I'm unsure of what these are, but I don't think they want this to be a high cost project (the Zootopia portion)

As many insiders have suggested, they're looking to do Zootopia cheap and quick.

Retrofitting a Zootopia attraction into the pre-existing Dinosaur makes the most logical sense (for Disney).
Think Malestrom to FEA, or Splash to TBA.
View attachment 717067

Is the back of house stuff here for animals or is it stuff that could be more easily moved? That's a good chunk of land that could be used for actual capacity additions instead of more rethemes.

 

[neo999955]

Is the back of house stuff here for animals or is it stuff that could be more easily moved? That's a good chunk of land that could be used for actual capacity additions instead of more rethemes.

The suggestions I've seen posted here insinuate a chunk of that would be converted to fit the new Moana ride, assuming it has a footprint inline with Splash. I would imagine they'd have to reclaim at least some of that space for the ride, even if it's not all of it.

 

[SpectreJordan]

The suggestions I've seen posted here insinuate a chunk of that would be converted to fit the new Moana ride, assuming it has a footprint inline with Splash. I would imagine they'd have to reclaim at least some of that space for the ride, even if it's not all of it.

Interesting. Hopefully they can use more of it for some animal exhibits & maybe another animal based show. Maybe something like "Feathered Friends" but with reptiles or fish?

 

[SpectreJordan]

Did people really not like the Great Movie Ride? I don't remember seeing anyone trash talk it. Maybe say that it needed an update...

Isn't the plot of the Zootopia ride going to be that Bellwether escaped from jail and Judy and Nick need the riders' help to arrest her again?

I thought the new theme was "a salute to all movies, but mostly Star Wars".

Hey hey hey, it's "but mostly Star Wars and Toy Story".

They'really apparently going with both, according to insiders. From concept art, Zootopia would be tucked away into the corner.

And Zootopia was definitely written first to be about animals which evolved to be intelligent, according to the creators.. Human-related themes may be important, but they don't wipe out the animalistic nature of the characters. The audience does pick up on this: just ask http://www.reddit.org/r/zootopia . They definitely agree with the creators that the movie is about animals.

Those are the aspects which will likely be highlighted.

Anyway, I'd say if there is any hope for Dinosaur, it is Zootopia. The movie featured a natural history museum, and Dinosaur could be tweaked to be about finding early mammals during the age of dinosaurs.

And, heck, one of the façades I see in the Shanghai attraction is that museum!

Sorry but the current Dinosaur ride just being retooled to take place in the Zootopia universe would be awful. It'd be an insult to both the Dinosaur ride and Zootopia. Go full Dinos or full Zootopia, not a bizarre mishmash of both.

 

[Advisable Joseph]

Sorry but the current Dinosaur ride just being retooled to take place in the Zootopia universe would be awful. It'd be an insult to both the Dinosaur ride and Zootopia. Go full Dinos or full Zootopia, not a bizarre mishmash of both.

In a little different idea, I was thinking the ride could be about mammals, with a history component. Since early mammals appeared during the age of the dinosaurs, a dino scene would make sense to me, but are you saying that would bother you?

Also, I don't understand why Shanghai couldn't have this as an extra ride in the future, as has been suggested in this thread.

 

[BlakeW39]

Dinosaur/CTX was certainly much better in the past… but I’d rate it as “solid” now and “excellent” in the past.

It seems to me like it has a more compelling story and more engaging things going on than, for example, Test Track, Mine Train, obviously Kali…

On the other hand, I guess it depends on how many animatronics are broken. I might just have had the good luck of usually riding when it’s in a fairly good state (e.g., not long after a refurb), so maybe I don’t have a good sense of how it sometimes/often is…?

Fair. Modern Dinosaur is a more entertaining attraction than Kali I guess, because Kali was always weak. Ditto for Na'vi.

On the other hand though Kali is a (weak) D ticket in a fantastic land, the village of Anandapur in Asia. Dino is a now an E on the weaker side that is the marquee attraction for a very poor quality land, Dinoland USA. And yes the land has a cool backstory or whatever, and fits the theme of Animal Kingdom, but it's a very later-Eisner style land (reminds me of DCA) and was clearly budget cut to all hell with pretty minimal visual theming. Sure it's kitschy and whatever and I enjoy Restaurantosaurus enough but the land isn't transportive in any way. And I'm talking about outside Dinorama mind you.

 

[Marc Davis Fan]

Fair. Modern Dinosaur is a more entertaining attraction than Kali I guess, because Kali was always weak. Ditto for Na'vi.

On the other hand though Kali is a (weak) D ticket in a fantastic land, the village of Anandapur in Asia. Dino is a now an E on the weaker side that is the marquee attraction for a very poor quality land, Dinoland USA. And yes the land has a cool backstory or whatever, and fits the theme of Animal Kingdom, but it's a very later-Eisner style land (reminds me of DCA) and was clearly budget cut to all hell with pretty minimal visual theming. Sure it's kitschy and whatever and I enjoy Restaurantosaurus enough but the land isn't transportive in any way. And I'm talking about outside Dinorama mind you.

I agree that even excluding Dino-Rama, Dinoland is the weak link of DAK. It’s technically as immersive as the other lands, but it immerses you in a modern-day small US town (rather than a modern-day South Asian or East African town), making it much less compelling.

That said, it had prospects for improvement in the Excavator or similar, which could have included more rockwork with fossils, adding a lot more visual/narrative interest. But alas, it seems that time has long passed.

Nonetheless, I’d be happy if they compromised by adding the Moana area in the Dino-Rama/Nemo/Dinosaur Treasures/backstage space while keeping the remainder of Dinoland and visually plussing it with rockwork/fossils (and maintaining Dinosaur properly). That could strike a good balance of adding capacity with Moana while not wasting money on replacing a major attraction (rather than adding capacity with that money).

 

[SamusAranX]

Zootopia in DAK would betray the park's original vision and completely be off-theme even with it's tenous (at best) connection to the "animal kingdom".

Which means Disney will definitely be building it.

I already only stop in at DAK [after 2 PM], I never schedule a park reservation. This will make me less likely to go.

Why can't we get a revitalized, immersive Dinoland? Similar to how DCA was redone to actually romanticize California and Hollywood (before Iger ruined it with Pixar Pier, etc.). Sigh.

 

[BrianLo]

Dinosaur/CTX was certainly much better in the past… but I’d rate it as “solid” now and “excellent” in the past.

It seems to me like it has a more compelling story and more engaging things going on than, for example, Test Track, Mine Train, obviously Kali…

On the other hand, I guess it depends on how many animatronics are broken. I might just have had the good luck of usually riding when it’s in a fairly good state (e.g., not long after a refurb), so maybe I don’t have a good sense of how it sometimes/often is…?

I think it’s strictly a case of extremely poor execution. Everything on paper says Dino should be great (a cool ride system, animatronic and set laden). Indy of course is fantastic.

I find it disorienting, jostling as opposed to thrilling, extremely poorly paced and the lack of a musical sound track would be like watching Star Wars without a score. Instead we have the AI and scientist just barking at us the entire time. It all just doesn’t feel right.

Yea there are some great animatronics somewhere in the dark there, but boy does it go to show how much execution (and pacing) makes the difference.

I’d almost liken it to Tokyo’s Sindbad pre and post overhaul. How dramatically different an experience something could be despite almost exactly the same parts.

It might be the biggest disappointment on an E ticket on property because of how much it botches everything it should have going for it.

 

[Bocabear]

I don't know that I would have quite as harsh a review of it...It has certainly had better days. What it lacks mostly is a feeling of place...we are just in the dark with some dinosaurs... The transition from Lab to cretacious period is laughably bad...tin foil and non neon and strobes...a WOW effect would go along way to setting up the story better... Then a little more light, a little more interior set instead of just darkness, and I think it could work better...but you really need that first time jump to be amazing... and most of the time you just rush down the hallway with strobes and broiler units in the ceiling and there is a dinosaur...lol This is fixable....

 

[BlakeW39]

I agree that even excluding Dino-Rama, Dinoland is the weak link of DAK. It’s technically as immersive as the other lands, but it immerses you in a modern-day small US town (rather than a modern-day South Asian or East African town), making it much less compelling.

Dinoland was really never that immersive. Do you know where dinosaur fossils are found? Out in the badlands, rock formations in the desert. Yet Dinoland has almost no rockwork, no placemaking to make someone feel as if they have been transported out to where they find fossils buried under layers of rock. Outside the Boneyard (and Dinorama, which I guess you could say is 'themed' to a cheap carnival— lol at that), Dinoland USA is mostly just unthemed Florida swampland. Yes it has a deep backstory thanks to Joe Rohde, but it's not a quality theme park land, nor is it really immersive in any meaningful way.

 

[Advisable Joseph]

If they repurposed the existing train and completely revamped Conservation Station area, they could create the setting for the attraction back there... have the train ride as the sort of prologue, create the different biomes along the way and end it in the city center.

I have an idea...

View attachment 666077
Moana would be Phase 1.

From the first few pages of comments:

Based on the art it looks like Zootopia would be where Finding Nemo is.

Along these lines, maybe the art is looking north, but the train station is north northwest of Nemo, and west of Everest, and the city is in the vacant area roughly to the north of that, towards the conservation station.
Zootopia Dinosaur would then be a separate project not on the art, apparently Phase 1B or C. It probably wouldn't be the police chase, in this case, as that would be with the city. A story of mammals ride?

And while I don't believe animals that wear clothes and have jobs and operate machinery should be part of DAK,

How do you think the bugs built their theater?

But seriously, if they can move the Nemo show to the Seas in Epcot, and get a National Geographic show for the Tree of Life, the bugs could move to Nemo's old theater, pushing the furries to the eastern corners where they can be ignored. (Yup, I'm calling the bugs "furry.")

 

[Advisable Joseph]

Not sure I like where I put the train station. Should it be father north, just in front of the city? Or maybe they can add a Dragon mountain near Everest, some mythological critters, maybe even Reynard the Fox, and call the northeast Beastly Kingdom. Then, the train station could be the gateway between Animal Kingdom and Beastly Kingdom, with the southeast corner being a hybrid, using fictional critters to talk about real ones.

However, Moana would have mythological creatures: the Kakamora.

 

[999th Happy Haunt]

In a little different idea, I was thinking the ride could be about mammals, with a history component. Since early mammals appeared during the age of the dinosaurs, a dino scene would make sense to me, but are you saying that would bother you?

Also, I don't understand why Shanghai couldn't have this as an extra ride in the future, as has been suggested in this thread.

I don’t think there’s anyone that actually wants a history ride with Zootopia theming. Neither Zootopia fans or Animal Kingdom fans are happy in this scenario. Keeping dinosaurs in a Zootopia attraction too is just insane insult to injury.

Maybe change the first part of your username

 

[EagleScout610]

Gotta start stocking copies to sell on Ebay for a fortune once the ride closes.

 

[Fox&Hound]

I think it’s strictly a case of extremely poor execution. Everything on paper says Dino should be great (a cool ride system, animatronic and set laden). Indy of course is fantastic.

I find it disorienting, jostling as opposed to thrilling, extremely poorly paced and the lack of a musical sound track would be like watching Star Wars without a score. Instead we have the AI and scientist just barking at us the entire time. It all just doesn’t feel right.

Yea there are some great animatronics somewhere in the dark there, but boy does it go to show how much execution (and pacing) makes the difference.

I’d almost liken it to Tokyo’s Sindbad pre and post overhaul. How dramatically different an experience something could be despite almost exactly the same parts.

It might be the biggest disappointment on an E ticket on property because of how much it botches everything it should have going for it.

Agree 100%. For a ride that shares so much of its bones with Indy in CA it is shocking how bad it is.

 

[Marc Davis Fan]

I think it’s strictly a case of extremely poor execution. Everything on paper says Dino should be great (a cool ride system, animatronic and set laden). Indy of course is fantastic.

I find it disorienting, jostling as opposed to thrilling, extremely poorly paced and the lack of a musical sound track would be like watching Star Wars without a score. Instead we have the AI and scientist just barking at us the entire time. It all just doesn’t feel right.

Yea there are some great animatronics somewhere in the dark there, but boy does it go to show how much execution (and pacing) makes the difference.

I’d almost liken it to Tokyo’s Sindbad pre and post overhaul. How dramatically different an experience something could be despite almost exactly the same parts.

It might be the biggest disappointment on an E ticket on property because of how much it botches everything it should have going for it.

I find the experience of Indy to be superior, that’s for sure. But there’s also a case that they’re fundamentally different enough to make a direct comparison unfair. Jeremy Thompson, on his outstanding blog “Roller Coaster Philosophy,” has a thought-provoking analysis of Dinosaur that suggests it has its own strengths: https://www.rollercoasterphilosophy.com/2012/animal-kingdom/ (Dinosaur review is near the end).

The first time I rode Dinosaur (well, CTX), in 1998, it was before having been on Indy—and I was blown away. And I thought the “race against time” aspect created by the dialogue between Seeker and the computer really created a feeling of “stakes” (as Thompson notes). Also, to me, the lack of music actually adds believability, i.e., makes it easier to suspend disbelief. Obviously, though, I wish they’d had the budget for more background scenery…

@BlakeW39 “Dinoland was really never that immersive. Do you know where dinosaur fossils are found? Out in the badlands, rock formations in the desert. Yet Dinoland has almost no rockwork, no placemaking to make someone feel as if they have been transported out to where they find fossils buried under layers of rock. Outside the Boneyard (and Dinorama, which I guess you could say is 'themed' to a cheap carnival— lol at that), Dinoland USA is mostly just unthemed Florida swampland. Yes it has a deep backstory thanks to Joe Rohde, but it's not a quality theme park land, nor is it really immersive in any meaningful way.”

Yeah, I was explicitly excluding Dino-Rama, and I also noted that more rockwork (e.g., with “fossils”) would go a long way.

However, the “dispute” over whether it’s “immersive” might be semantic here. It’s not aesthetically or emotionally compelling, but it seems literally “immersive” in that the details of the buildings are realistic/accurate. Again, though, even with this definition of “immersive,” that just means it “immerses” us in something that’s not compelling (a tiny little town in the middle of nowhere where fossils were discovered… ok). So I think we’re really on the same page here.

 

[BlakeW39]

I find the experience of Indy to be superior, that’s for sure. But there’s also a case that they’re fundamentally different enough to make a direct comparison unfair. Jeremy Thompson, on his outstanding blog “Roller Coaster Philosophy,” has a thought-provoking analysis of Dinosaur that suggests it has its own strengths: https://www.rollercoasterphilosophy.com/2012/animal-kingdom/ (Dinosaur review is near the end).

The first time I rode Dinosaur (well, CTX), in 1998, it was before having been on Indy—and I was blown away. And I thought the “race against time” aspect created by the dialogue between Seeker and the computer really created a feeling of “stakes” (as Thompson notes). Also, to me, the lack of music actually adds believability, i.e., makes it easier to suspend disbelief. Obviously, though, I wish they’d had the budget for more background scenery…

@BlakeW39 “Dinoland was really never that immersive. Do you know where dinosaur fossils are found? Out in the badlands, rock formations in the desert. Yet Dinoland has almost no rockwork, no placemaking to make someone feel as if they have been transported out to where they find fossils buried under layers of rock. Outside the Boneyard (and Dinorama, which I guess you could say is 'themed' to a cheap carnival— lol at that), Dinoland USA is mostly just unthemed Florida swampland. Yes it has a deep backstory thanks to Joe Rohde, but it's not a quality theme park land, nor is it really immersive in any meaningful way.”

Yeah, I was explicitly excluding Dino-Rama, and I also noted that more rockwork (e.g., with “fossils”) would go a long way.

However, the “dispute” over whether it’s “immersive” might be semantic here. It’s not aesthetically or emotionally compelling, but it seems literally “immersive” in that the details of the buildings are realistic/accurate. Again, though, even with this definition of “immersive,” that just means it “immerses” us in something that’s not compelling (a tiny little town in the middle of nowhere where fossils were discovered… ok). So I think we’re really on the same page here.

well, I was saying Dinoland wasn't immersive because it doesn't transport you to a new place, because as I said most of it is just unthemed Florida swampland. But I suppose you're right that the word 'immersive' may not be the best adjective to describe that. Now CTX/Dino, originally, was a good attraction, I'm not sure how anyone can think otherwise. Today, no, but in the past it was very good imo. I suppose to each their own.

either way, I think retheming the attraction, or the area as a whole to either Moana or Zootopia is a mistake. Even though I don't particularly like Dinoland, I'd still take it over yet another Iger movie land to be frank. Merchandisey cartoon lands imo are not the best direction for DAK to go in. A different version of a dinosaur themed land would be a greatly superior choice imho by a lot.