You Say You Want a Revolution

[flynnibus]

You have more or less outlined our plan. There are a few differences, but you've more or less broken down the user interface and backend that I had in mind.

The key notion is "Now what you do is encourage people to update the list of effects and their status each time they ride - not just when things are broken"

The flaw with any 'effect tracking' thread and efforts in the past is the lack of frequent checks. This leads to misleading data. When was the last time anyone really even checked? That's why you need 'check-ins' all the time that include updates of bad AND goods.

The real problem is two fold
1) Managing the size of checks - you want to keep it managable and not have people checking in on every rail in the queue
2) Contributor frequency and ride coverage - need frequent updates, not once per quarter

If I had this tool and I wanted to make an impression? I'd create 'show effects reports' for each attraction in a one sheet printable format and I'd print them out every time I went to the park and I'd find the best person to share this list with every time. Every time I saw someone of importance I'd leave a copy with them. Will they throw it away? More than likely.. but if you just get them thinking about it just for a second.. you are making progress. You might trip guilt... You might make things aware they may not have been.. like they knew somethings were broke, but maybe they didn't know HOW much was broke, etc. Such an effort is all about raising awareness.

The backend and GUI isn't really complex at all - but you need someone to stop trying to shoehorn this into forums, etc. Use the right tool for the job.. and this is something that needs to be built. The good news is, this is completely generic and there is no reason such a backend could not be used for any park.

 

[RSoxNo1]

I agree, a forum format won't work. Feel free to take this to PM if you'd like.

 

[captainkidd]

I heard the doom and gloomers were going to organize a protest down Main St USA but quickly realized they would have to pay the new high price to get in, which is one of the things they complain about, so they went to Universal instead.


Jimmy Thick- Layered...

What's worse - Acknowledging faults or ignoring them? I don't know if you consider me one of your "doom and gloomers". Lord knows, if you saw me at the parks, you wouldn't think so. I admit to coming off on the boards as a cup half empty kind of guy. For me, I think it's a passive aggressive thing. I refuse to let the bad things get me down at the parks, so I address it on the forums. I think there's a lot of people like that.

 

[Monty]

I will point out that a significant number of apps failed miserably just trying to get guests to submit reliable wait times for rides. An app that asks guests to chronicle details of each effect on each ride they ride as they ride them? A massive undertaking to manage with presumably non-monetary "awards". To be accurate the volume of members you'd need and the levels of park attendance amongst them would be staggering.

 

[unkadug]

I remember a certain website that posted pics of burned out bulbs, chipped paint, etc. a few years ago and havent been able to find it since....anyone remember what this site was called....

D-Troops

 

[jt04]

Errr..."hostile takeover"?

Surely you don't mean the highly interesting discussions of corporate uses for social media and TWDC's attempted sale of WDW that occurred at that site?

No I am refering to the constant negativity that only served to drive people away. Basically every post comes down to the same phrase, "TDO is cheap" when dominated by the pessimists. Real facts and analysis of the situation became something to avoid by the naysayers. The forum collapsed.

 

[Master Yoda]

I think 74 really hit the nail on the head with 2 points. First and foremost, this has to be treated like a job and not a hobby. To be successful someone has to put the time in. Writing for an hour or two every other night is not going to cut it. Random fan contributions being the bulk of your content will not work either. You will need boots on the ground every day from one or more dedicated writers.

Secondly, this needs to eventually get regular attention of the main stream press. The major networks have the hit counts that matter. WDW sees in excess of 120 million people per yer. Even an incredibly successful blog site with 50k regular readers is not even a blip on Disney's radar. Fox, CNN, MSN, etc running a story a week from the blog will get noticed.

 

[wannab@dis]

This has been tried and it has failed.. multiple times.

Two specific times were by splinter groups from this forum. In each case it as a group of a dozen or so of the vocally negative posters. Your project will also fail if you allow it to be run by those same types of people with the idea of "Changing TDO." The overly negative group comes off as a bunch of kids that have absolutely no idea how a business is run, they continually attack executives / imagineers without a clue of what their jobs actually entail, and they use class warfare to complain about compensation and prices. In short, anyone that matters would look at their postings, laugh, and ignore it as the incompetent ramblings.

You have to move the message way above the average "D&G" poster here or you'll see the same results as the others.

I find it ironic that your goal is to use the one medium that D&G group loves to harp on... social media.

 

[djkidkaz]

The key notion is "Now what you do is encourage people to update the list of effects and their status each time they ride - not just when things are broken"

The flaw with any 'effect tracking' thread and efforts in the past is the lack of frequent checks. This leads to misleading data. When was the last time anyone really even checked? That's why you need 'check-ins' all the time that include updates of bad AND goods.

The real problem is two fold
1) Managing the size of checks - you want to keep it managable and not have people checking in on every rail in the queue
2) Contributor frequency and ride coverage - need frequent updates, not once per quarter

If I had this tool and I wanted to make an impression? I'd create 'show effects reports' for each attraction in a one sheet printable format and I'd print them out every time I went to the park and I'd find the best person to share this list with every time. Every time I saw someone of importance I'd leave a copy with them. Will they throw it away? More than likely.. but if you just get them thinking about it just for a second.. you are making progress. You might trip guilt... You might make things aware they may not have been.. like they knew somethings were broke, but maybe they didn't know HOW much was broke, etc. Such an effort is all about raising awareness.

The backend and GUI isn't really complex at all - but you need someone to stop trying to shoehorn this into forums, etc. Use the right tool for the job.. and this is something that needs to be built. The good news is, this is completely generic and there is no reason such a backend could not be used for any park.

Who the hell wants to spend their vacation logging into a site to update on broken effects?

"Hang on a minute honey, we just got off Splash, I need to update so everyone knows the bees weren't spinning."

I mean, its seriously comical.

I guarantee you these things were going on back in the day as well we just didn't have the visibility to it like we do now with the internet. And how do you even police something like this? Your going to have random people who aren't even familiar with all the effects updating? Look how often we get someone on the boards who says that the Yeti was moving. Look at how wonky all the wait time apps are that the general public is left to update.

And the majority of people go to Disney for an escape of the negativity of everyday life. Do you really think your going to have a large enough group of people who are going to want to log in and be negative on a daily basis? Especially those who are paying thousands of dollars for a vacation? Anyone who really thinks the place is in that bad of shape that they would update a broken effects app, is already not going to spend their money at WDW.

Edit: This wasn't directed at you flynnibus, you just got the reply.

 

[DisneyBeatles]

Hey, nice job including Beatles as your title! Just had to point that out

 

[flynnibus]

Who the hell wants to spend their vacation logging into a site to update on broken effects?

"Hang on a minute honey, we just got off Splash, I need to update so everyone knows the bees weren't spinning."

I mean, its seriously comical.

This project is not about vacationers sourcing data anyways... such tracking would only ever come from regulars with an interest in the mission.

Casual input without the regular input only gives fluffly, inconsistent, and therefore untrustworthy data over time.

 

[lebeau]

Hey, nice job including Beatles as your title! Just had to point that out

That was really my end goal. Now I just need to get that song out of my head!

 

[Omnimover]

Secondly, this needs to eventually get regular attention of the main stream press. The major networks have the hit counts that matter. WDW sees in excess of 120 million people per yer. Even an incredibly successful blog site with 50k regular readers is not even a blip on Disney's radar. Fox, CNN, MSN, etc running a story a week from the blog will get noticed.

I would think reaching the point where you receive mainstream media attention requires endurance. Developing a following can sometimes take years, and respectable news outlets will (in theory) not run items from a source that does not seem reputable and with a somewhat large shadow. Websites in particular, no matter the format, often languish in obscurity for years before they finally take off, and that slow period is where the attrition often occurs. Gotta be in it for the long haul.

 

[misterID]

Doing it a certain way will work. Staggs responded to the anger over WDW not getting anything at D23 when the official message boards bew up to the point they weren't able to delete all the angry messages.

No one has ever confronted Iger at a shareholder meeting about this.

 

[dreamscometrue]

If you simply want to talk about what's wrong at WDW and what could be done to improve the place, then why not do so from here? This is a well-known, respected site. The biggest problem I see with the fan community is how splintered it is and fragmenting further doesn't solve that unless you have figured out the solution that no one else has. I don't want to be negative when the goal is a positive one, but if it were easy then we wouldn't be on our second straight decade of decline at WDW.

Hey lebeau

I agree with that comment by '74. (Okay, I can't believe I just said that; somebody slap me upside the head )

Anyway, we all simply see the world differently. We spend much of our time on here trying to convince others to see from our point of view, but it's practically impossible. One's perception is his or her reality, and until we can see WDW through another's eyes-with all of their prior experiences and emotions-we'll continue this futile task that we engage in often. I'll likely continue to try to convince people how there is so, so much more positive at WDW than negative, and that it was never perfect. I'll cite examples and try to illustrate to convince people to come to 'my side'. Others will do likewise to illustrate their belief in a decline. Likely, very, very few of us will ever see the other point of view.

Here...I'll use a quote from the opening post to illustrate how different we are. Ready, here goes.

"Or you can sit on the sidelines and watch Disney World continue its downward spiral."

I disagree completely with this statement. I don't believe there is any downward spiral, so go figure. (Btw, just renewed my AP recently...so happy! )

 

[Monty]

I agree with that comment by '74. (Okay, I can't believe I just said that; somebody slap me upside the head )

He's an ageeable sort [when he's not ranting about whichever windmill he's recently chosen to tilt at or demeaning/belittling other posters ]. Has quite good sources generally and can even on occasion contribute rationally to a discussion...

 

[wannab@dis]

He's an ageeable sort ... and can even on occasion contribute rationally to a discussion...

Sources please? I'd take that rumor with a grain of salt.

Sorry, couldn't resist.

 

[experiment624]

Ok, so I read through this entire thread, and I can't help but think about a recent experience on this forum that has influenced my future posting. Everyone posting on this thread seems to have been here a while and may have insight to advise me, but also, just another thought to throw into the mix. I started a thread where I mentioned a very recent disappointment with an annual event as DHS. I did ask for opinions, as I am always open for new views, so I'm not complaining that people responded, and some gave very good advice. But, I did feel like some comments were a little demeaning/belittling, I try to keep a thick skin, but don't want to sully my reputation on the boards that I do so enjoy. Since everyone has their own opinion, and reality, it is very difficult to actually post an opion or participate in a discussion without being personally criticized. How would it be different on this "new" site unless it is more of a one-way reporting?

 

[Clever Name]

I remember a certain website that posted pics of burned out bulbs, chipped paint, etc. a few years ago and havent been able to find it since....anyone remember what this site was called....

There have been many such sites over the years. D-Troops was among the most recent but it never gained much traction. The site that got the most attention was Walt Disney Wolrd Blues. John Hornbuckle ran the site for many years and he generated a lot of interest. Here's an archived article from the Orlando Sentinel about the site:

http://mediocridisney.tripod.com/id39.htm

We know from history that all of these sites die due to lack of interest. John's site was a masterpiece!

 

[wdwmagic]

I will point out that a significant number of apps failed miserably just trying to get guests to submit reliable wait times for rides. An app that asks guests to chronicle details of each effect on each ride they ride as they ride them? A massive undertaking to manage with presumably non-monetary "awards". To be accurate the volume of members you'd need and the levels of park attendance amongst them would be staggering.

Yep - crowd-sourced data is extremely unreliable and basically pointless without huge numbers of users. Any new startup is not going to have those huge numbers.