You Say You Want a Revolution

[the-reason14]

Isn't there enough here to get Disney's attention to force them to want to change? Guess the only way to really get their attention is to spend your vacation money elsewhere. Until then, it's all counterproductive.

 

[RSoxNo1]

Fix The Magic was a good idea, but whenever I went to the site, I really didn't understand what I should do there. All I could find were threads to report things that were wrong. I seriously don't go to WDW enough to help in that area, so I didn't know what I could do to help.

You know, Lutz has beengoing on about this quite a bit recently, about WDWers not doing anything and accepting (and deserving) what they get... Maybe you should see about getting him involved. His site has the clout, structure, following and experience in this area that you would need to get noticed.

If you guys are going to create a site like this, be sure not just to focus on the negative. If anything positive comes along, which DOES happen, you'd want to push that as an example of what WDW can still do.

I've been working on a new fan site for a while now. Jim Handy is absolutely right though, much in the same way Walt said, "Your dead if you only aim just for kids", the site simply won't work if it's all negative.

I won't elaborate publicly yet, but something is in the works to track effects in a far more thorough way than Fix the Magic was attempting. It will be a single component of a larger site, but it will have to rely on input from fans that are in the parks.

Having an Al Lutz type mouthpiece will certainly have value, but that mouthpiece needs to be better connected. Kevin Yee's approach is more than tactful, and I'm sure it's raised a few eyebrows over in TDO, especially when he called attention to the Splash Mountain issues. Having said that, while Kevin has some connections, by his own admittance, he's not connected as high up as Al is.

Trying to improve things and get Disney to live up to its history/legacy as well as current PR and marketing isn't a negative thing.

It's a positive thing. Whether a blog is the answer is another story. I'm not sold on it and people have been trying to get me to write or contribute to one for almost a decade now.

Anyone that had read WDW1974 on here or LP should have known this from the beginning.

 

[fngoofy]

I am so tired of Internet tough guys wanting to "Fix" WDW.
In case you've missed it:
-Just about every wooden structure has been redone in the MK
-If you look at imagineering disney's Now and Then photos, World Showcase has barely changed since opening
-Future World has kept up with the times (for all the nostalgia, Test Track and MS are fitting replacements to what would be considered dull attractions today.)
-Disney Studios has the best version of ToT ever built
-RnR is not too shabby
-There are 2 awesome water parks on site
-20+ great resorts that keep very high standards
-A new fantasyland where they listened to guests and backed off of too much meetngreats and put in what looks to be a fun coaster for the whole family
-They consistently deliver good to great customer service on a scale that dwarfs the scope of 1971-1988
-They do consistant refurbs to existing rides (BTM, Splash, Space Mountain, People Mover, Spaceship Earth, etc.

Bottom line, before the Internet you weren't able to keep up with what new bathrooms they where opening, what color paint was used on a curb, or whether a box of popcorn had gone up by $0.10. You might talk to a coworker every now and then that went to ask how the liked it and you got down there yourself every 3 of 4 yrs if you where lucky.

You had to get up in the morning at ten o'clock at night half an hour before you went to bed, drink a cup of sulphuric acid, work twenty-nine hours a day down mill, and pay the mill owner for permission to come to work, and when you got home your mother would kill you and dance about on your grave singing Hallelujah.

And you tell that to the kids today and the won't believe you.

 

[lebeau]

Dude when are you and others going to figure 74 out? The one thing he does that I appreciate everytime is how he backhands anyone who tries to co-opt him. That is when he shines. He now has to dis me for such a compliment! LOL

Anyway, no way could I stay out of this discussion.

Obviously everyone knows this has been tried and failed. Problem is the critics always go to far. But more than that they fail to take into account all the circumstance involved. It becomes so myopic that credibility goes out the window.

Another place this was tried was the 'hostile takeover' of the LP forums. Total fail for the reasons I mentioned above. Constructive criticism can be valuable but few can effectively put it into practice. Especially when dealing with the WDC. They just do not give into intimadation and those with severe Disney entitlement syndrome. If they did that they would only be trying to appease and real progress would cease. The fact that so many critics refuse to acknowledge the progress at WDW causes all credibility to be lost with the average reader. That is why these attempts are doomed from the start.

There is a way it could work. If the criticism was applied to all resorts in Orlando or the US or even globally in an even-handed way then it could build up a credible following. Otherwise it will fail.

I've got no beef with 74. He's cool. If he's not interested in a blog, I'm not about to take it personally.

 

[wdwfan22]

In my opinion the other sites have failed because they are negative and negative in tone. Al's site works because he reports news along with his views of things. There also isn't many main stream sites dedicated to the Disneyland Resort. WDW already has it's well established players in the online world. It will be very hard for you to try and win over viewers inless your content is good and you have something to bring to the table other than complaints.

 

[jt04]

I've got no beef with 74. He's cool. If he's not interested in a blog, I'm not about to take it personally.

It wasn't a comment about you at all. He does that with everyone. Always makes me chuckle. Gotta go.

 

[Jimmy Thick]

Isn't there enough here to get Disney's attention to force them to want to change? Guess the only way to really get their attention is to spend your vacation money elsewhere. Until then, it's all counterproductive.

Contrary to what people say or want to think, I highly doubt this place registers in the Disney Corporate radar. Others will say it does, but those others also say people from Disney websites are trying to kill them, so caveat emptor.


But not spending your money at Disney? Yes, that they will notice and that the jaded doom and gloomer should do if they really want to make a stand, but that of course is way too easy.


Jimmy Thick- Making lines of pixie dust....

 

[RSoxNo1]

I am so tired of Internet tough guys wanting to "Fix" WDW.
In case you've missed it:
-Just about every wooden structure has been redone in the MK
-If you look at imagineering disney's Now and Then photos, World Showcase has barely changed since opening
-Future World has kept up with the times (for all the nostalgia, Test Track and MS are fitting replacements to what would be considered dull attractions today.)
-Disney Studios has the best version of ToT ever built
-RnR is not too shabby
-There are 2 awesome water parks on site
-20+ great resorts that keep very high standards
-A new fantasyland where they listened to guests and backed off of too much meetngreats and put in what looks to be a fun coaster for the whole family
-They consistently deliver good to great customer service on a scale that dwarfs the scope of 1971-1988
-They do consistant refurbs to existing rides (BTM, Splash, Space Mountain, People Mover, Spaceship Earth, etc.

Bottom line, before the Internet you weren't able to keep up with what new bathrooms they where opening, what color paint was used on a curb, or whether a box of popcorn had gone up by $0.10. You might talk to a coworker every now and then that went to ask how the liked it and you got down there yourself every 3 of 4 yrs if you where lucky.

You had to get up in the morning at ten o'clock at night half an hour before you went to bed, drink a cup of sulphuric acid, work twenty-nine hours a day down mill, and pay the mill owner for permission to come to work, and when you got home your mother would kill you and dance about on your grave singing Hallelujah.

And you tell that to the kids today and the won't believe you.

These are all excellent points, but with the good there is also the bad. What happens on sites like this is that the good is expected and therefore ignored, while the bad is unexpected and therefore condemned.

In my opinion the other sites have failed because they are negative and negative in tone. Al's site works because he reports news along with his views of things. There also isn't many main stream sites dedicated to the Disneyland Resort. WDW already has it's well established players in the online world. It will be very hard for you to try and win over viewers inless your content is good and you have something to bring to the table other than complaints.

Al was highly critical of Disneyland when it was a mess (approaching the 50th), but he's praising good work. If there's something that he, or often times his sources, think is bad he'll present that information. By all accounts he's fair in his evaluations, and he has excellent information making his articles must read.

 

[steamboat wil]

Still pretty new and don't post much but the only thing people can talk with their wallet. I'm not a good example (usually taking a yearly trip) but still. Either don't go or stay off property or something. We all know WDW is WDCs cash cow in the theme park division. Stop spending the money and they will either have to sink or swim to keep us entertained to make future trips. Easy as that.

 

[bubbles1812]

I am so tired of Internet tough guys wanting to "Fix" WDW.
In case you've missed it:
-Just about every wooden structure has been redone in the MK
-If you look at imagineering disney's Now and Then photos, World Showcase has barely changed since opening
-Future World has kept up with the times (for all the nostalgia, Test Track and MS are fitting replacements to what would be considered dull attractions today.)
-Disney Studios has the best version of ToT ever built
-RnR is not too shabby
-There are 2 awesome water parks on site
-20+ great resorts that keep very high standards
-A new fantasyland where they listened to guests and backed off of too much meetngreats and put in what looks to be a fun coaster for the whole family
-They consistently deliver good to great customer service on a scale that dwarfs the scope of 1971-1988
-They do consistant refurbs to existing rides (BTM, Splash, Space Mountain, People Mover, Spaceship Earth, etc.

Bottom line, before the Internet you weren't able to keep up with what new bathrooms they where opening, what color paint was used on a curb, or whether a box of popcorn had gone up by $0.10. You might talk to a coworker every now and then that went to ask how the liked it and you got down there yourself every 3 of 4 yrs if you where lucky.

You had to get up in the morning at ten o'clock at night half an hour before you went to bed, drink a cup of sulphuric acid, work twenty-nine hours a day down mill, and pay the mill owner for permission to come to work, and when you got home your mother would kill you and dance about on your grave singing Hallelujah.

And you tell that to the kids today and the won't believe you.

There are many things that are wonderful about Walt Disney World, including the things you posted. But there are many things wrong with it too. Just dismissing the problems as you just did is akin to closing your eyes and stuffing your hands in your ears and burying your head in the sand.

Yes that is how things used to be. I'm almost 24. I don't know your age so I don't know if I'm a "kid" to you, but I'm not naive about how things used to be. But that was then. This is now. So look at now. The internet isn't going anywhere. It is here to stay and it has changed how many things work for many different means of entertainment. Fans of tv shows, movies, news, whatever you name it, are more vocal than ever before. That will not change anytime soon. When there is hugely negative backlash against something an entertainment company does (I'm thinking about NBC actually right now and a few things they've done over the last few years), it forces change.

Now I'm not saying there is tons of backlash against WDW right now. That's not the point. But there are problems. Just because people weren't able to talk and organize as easily as in the internet age, it doesn't mean they weren't there and that people didn't wish they were addressed. Sometimes the internet is a hindrance but as a whole I think it forces greater transparency to a degree. Instead of just saying the press release from the PR department, people can do their own research and see whether what they actually say is true (usually it's more spin than fact, and that goes for anything). I like that.

 

[TalkingHead]

Another place this was tried was the 'hostile takeover' of the LP forums. Total fail for the reasons I mentioned above.

Errr..."hostile takeover"?

Surely you don't mean the highly interesting discussions of corporate uses for social media and TWDC's attempted sale of WDW that occurred at that site?

 

[Pixiedustmaker]

Obviously, fans are upset with the upkeep, yet we want to keep going and probably don't feel all that guilty when we do. I propose this possible solution: A merchandise boycott, go the park but don't buy the merchandise, or go to hard ticket events, and also try to eat off property, and stay off property if you're from out of state!

While the mouse gets money when we first step into the park, fine dining and merchandising are also very important.

 

[HMF]

-A new fantasyland where they listened to guests and backed off of too much meetngreats and put in what looks to be a fun coaster for the whole family,-FORCED UPON THEM BY BURBANK
-They do consistant "HALF-BAKED" refurbs to existing rides (BTM, Splash, Space Mountain, People Mover, Spaceship Earth, etc.

^
corrections in caps

 

[Monty]

^
corrections in caps

Caps don't make them any more accurate or any less arrogant.

 

[Clever Name]

Let's all get together for a flash dance at WDW. That will be the first step to show them the mighty power of the net.

 

[Jimmy Thick]

Let's all get together for a flash dance at WDW. That will be the first step to show them the mighty power of the net.

I heard the doom and gloomers were going to organize a protest down Main St USA but quickly realized they would have to pay the new high price to get in, which is one of the things they complain about, so they went to Universal instead.


Jimmy Thick- Layered...

 

[Grumpy1973]

I remember a certain website that posted pics of burned out bulbs, chipped paint, etc. a few years ago and havent been able to find it since....anyone remember what this site was called....

 

[flynnibus]

If you want to bring visibility to problems in hopes of getting them fixed... you gotta use the right tools.

Discussion forums and blogs are NOT effective 'list' methods. If you want a platform to preach from.. start a blog.

If you want an effective way to highlight deficiencies and make them as current as possible you need to focus on that problem. You need to make it simple to list, and simple to update.

Imagine a simple db that had each ride. Each ride someone would create a record of an effect. That effect can be marked as 'working' or it could be marked as 'broken'. Each update would be timestamped and marked by who updated it. Now what you do is encourage people to update the list of effects and their status each time they ride - not just when things are broken. Users are free to create new 'effects' but they are moderated to ensure consistency and avoid duplication. Capturing 'working' effects is just as important as capturing 'broken' effects.

As each user updates this list.. you get a timeline for effects. You see when they go down, you see when they go up, you see trends for how LONG things are down.

Now you add real value.. you grade effects with levels (major, minor, etc). When an attraction has X number of majors down, you flag the ride with some title. If it has this state for Y amount of time, you add another title to it (so you have flags for both severities and durations). The same kind of tags may appear on individual effects too (like.. 'never works' as its been down for a month or more, etc).

Then you make it so its easy to see out of all the rides in the park, you can see which have the most number of problems.. which have had significant problems the longest.. you can create filters on which attractions have issues, etc.

So now you have the data model, and it's just a matter of creating the GUI to simplify the input and reporting. This is basic enough your goal would be to write a mobile UI or app that allows the user to within 30 seconds to mark a ride's effects as working, or mark effects as down. The key is to make data input very simple so people will do it frequently.. the whole model is predicated on continuous user input and tracking that over time.

The GUI's purpose is really user input and queries.. that's it. Not a discussion area.

You reward community involvement by tracking how many times people contribute, etc.. give awards/etc. Moderators are focused on reviewing submissions and keeping an eye on people trying to game the system or flood results.

Have that tool.. and on top of that bring in blogs to talk about the trends and happenings.. using the data to back it up. Don't try to start a user discussion community.. partner with an existing one.

 

[Tom Morrow]

This is probably a stupid idea, but then again, maybe not:

People love internet memes and image macros. Maybe site content could be internet meme stuff but the topic being WDW's failures. Stuff people would get a chuckle out of and share on Facebook, and it would spread and get noticed. Maybe. Just a thought.

At the very least, I think you would have to create content like pictures and videos that people are going to make the effort to watch and share. Walls of text in a blog post describing something that's wrong, or a list of things that are wrong won't do anything.

 

[RSoxNo1]

If you want to bring visibility to problems in hopes of getting them fixed... you gotta use the right tools.

Discussion forums and blogs are NOT effective 'list' methods. If you want a platform to preach from.. start a blog.

If you want an effective way to highlight deficiencies and make them as current as possible you need to focus on that problem. You need to make it simple to list, and simple to update.

Imagine a simple db that had each ride. Each ride someone would create a record of an effect. That effect can be marked as 'working' or it could be marked as 'broken'. Each update would be timestamped and marked by who updated it. Now what you do is encourage people to update the list of effects and their status each time they ride - not just when things are broken. Users are free to create new 'effects' but they are moderated to ensure consistency and avoid duplication. Capturing 'working' effects is just as important as capturing 'broken' effects.

As each user updates this list.. you get a timeline for effects. You see when they go down, you see when they go up, you see trends for how LONG things are down.

Now you add real value.. you grade effects with levels (major, minor, etc). When an attraction has X number of majors down, you flag the ride with some title. If it has this state for Y amount of time, you add another title to it (so you have flags for both severities and durations). The same kind of tags may appear on individual effects too (like.. 'never works' as its been down for a month or more, etc).

Then you make it so its easy to see out of all the rides in the park, you can see which have the most number of problems.. which have had significant problems the longest.. you can create filters on which attractions have issues, etc.

So now you have the data model, and it's just a matter of creating the GUI to simplify the input and reporting. This is basic enough your goal would be to write a mobile UI or app that allows the user to within 30 seconds to mark a ride's effects as working, or mark effects as down. The key is to make data input very simple so people will do it frequently.. the whole model is predicated on continuous user input and tracking that over time.

The GUI's purpose is really user input and queries.. that's it. Not a discussion area.

You reward community involvement by tracking how many times people contribute, etc.. give awards/etc. Moderators are focused on reviewing submissions and keeping an eye on people trying to game the system or flood results.

Have that tool.. and on top of that bring in blogs to talk about the trends and happenings.. using the data to back it up. Don't try to start a user discussion community.. partner with an existing one.

You have more or less outlined our plan. There are a few differences, but you've more or less broken down the user interface and backend that I had in mind.