Yes, another monorail thread!

[PhilharMagician]

The trains are not part of the current capital program. Replacements for the current trains maybe. I really doubt they panned on ordering the 2 - 4 extra trains for the loop in that budget.

The current Epcot station is not prepared to fit another line. There would have to be another station next to the existing Epcot station.

One thing that really floors me is the idea of Disney connecting the monorail to DTD. Right now they do not even run a bus, boat or bicycle between the parks and DTD for the reason that people will park for free @ DTD and take WDW transportation for free to the parks. I would like to know the reasoning why that all of the sudden WDC would expand the uber expensive monorail to DTD from either epcot or DTD and not even connect to a resort?? I just makes no sense. I always said the they would serve alchohol in MK before we would ever see a monorail expansion.

 

[Clever Name]

When Walt Disney built Disneyland, his brother Roy (who had always been the company's CEO, while Walt was the president) would not finance the monorail there either, using excuses similar to Eisner's). Walt, then, started WEDway Enterprises to build, own and operate the DL monorail. They also owned the MK WEDway PeopleMover at DL, the DL RR, the cable cars, and the Main Street Trolly system. Roy was wrong and all these transporation systems WEDway Enterprises owned turned a huge profit. Eventually, the Disney company would buy WEDway Enterprises from Walt and his family and merge it into the Walt Disney Company.

You are right in so far as your research has taken you. You need to research the subject in greater detail. WED Enterprises was operated by Walt under the table without any knowledge of the studio shareholders. WED operated on the studio lot rent free and used studio tools and equipment without paying any lease or rental fees. The monorail was owned by Walt but no right of way, land lease or rental fees were charged by Disneyland to Walt. Walt also owned the Tiki Room and that attraction was an E-ticket. We know that the Tiki Room is not now nor has it ever been a real E-ticket. Walt made it an E-ticket because he owned it and wanted to make a huge profit. He did the same with the monorail and the other attractions you mentioned.

He got most of his WED work force from his studio employees and he charged back to the shareholders all work performed on a cost plus expenses basis. In other words, his privately owned WED Enterprises employees were getting their pay from Walt and then Walt was getting all that money back from the studio and/or Disneyland (shareholders) plus a sizable profit.

The WED fiasco caused the bigget rift between Roy and Walt that they had ever experienced and it lasted for years! Walt was forced to sell WED to the studio to avert a major shareholder lawsuit that would have ruined Walt. In short, the monorail and the other Walt owned attractions were only profitable because Walt cheated the shareholders. Had the monorail been run like a real business it would have failed financially.

 

[Master Yoda]

The trains are not part of the current capital program. Replacements for the current trains maybe. I really doubt they panned on ordering the 2 - 4 extra trains for the loop in that budget.

The current Epcot station is not prepared to fit another line. There would have to be another station next to the existing Epcot station.

One thing that really floors me is the idea of Disney connecting the monorail to DTD. Right now they do not even run a bus, boat or bicycle between the parks and DTD for the reason that people will park for free @ DTD and take WDW transportation for free to the parks. I would like to know the reasoning why that all of the sudden WDC would expand the uber expensive monorail to DTD from either epcot or DTD and not even connect to a resort?? I just makes no sense. I always said the they would serve alchohol in MK before we would ever see a monorail expansion.

Right now I think the only chance of us seeing a monorail expansion is at DTD. It will of course not connect to the parks, but to a parking garage build near I-4.

 

[PhilharMagician]

Right now I think the only chance of us seeing a monorail expansion is at DTD. It will of course not connect to the parks, but to a parking garage build near I-4.

Parking garage near I-4 for what? You are joking right?

 

[PeterAlt]

Right now I think the only chance of us seeing a monorail expansion is at DTD. It will of course not connect to the parks, but to a parking garage build near I-4.

That was the thinking that got me started on all this research. I posted earlier here on that portion of my research a couple of weeks ago.

 

[PeterAlt]

Parking garage near I-4 for what? You are joking right?

No, he's serious. It's being considered as part of the DTD redo. This garage would also solve the problem of free-load parking as mentioned here.

 

[PeterAlt]

The trains are not part of the current capital program. Replacements for the current trains maybe. I really doubt they panned on ordering the 2 - 4 extra trains for the loop in that budget.

The current Epcot station is not prepared to fit another line. There would have to be another station next to the existing Epcot station.

One thing that really floors me is the idea of Disney connecting the monorail to DTD. Right now they do not even run a bus, boat or bicycle between the parks and DTD for the reason that people will park for free @ DTD and take WDW transportation for free to the parks. I would like to know the reasoning why that all of the sudden WDC would expand the uber expensive monorail to DTD from either epcot or DTD and not even connect to a resort?? I just makes no sense. I always said the they would serve alchohol in MK before we would ever see a monorail expansion.

Think of the two extensions as new stops, not as new lines. The DTD extension spurs off the EPCOT Center line. I don't know about the DHS one, as the map I got cuts off before the EPCOT Center terminus, but I do know the current EPCOT Center station has the platform already built for another line. Right now that platform is used as part of pedestrian ramp. My source on this is a web article and could be wrong as I have not yet found official documentation on this. Now, with at least the DTD stop spurring from the EPCOT Center line, no new platforms at EPCOT are even required (even if there already is one as claimed) and no new trains are required either. If the DHS extension is a new line, then a new train is required; if not, no new trains are required. I say this with the assumption that the new automated trains would be in service beforehand. I'm making this statement about the requirement of no new trains knowing this would not be true if non-automated trains were in use; the automated trains make this possible.

 

[Master Yoda]

Parking garage near I-4 for what? You are joking right?

Not kidding. There was a bit of a hub-bub about it not too long ago. Plans included a direct off ramp form I-4 to a parking garage, monrail of some sort from the garage to DTD, and a complete reworking of DTD.

 

[TDF]

Wouldn’t electric and possibly even solar powered monorails be the future? I can easily see it saving Disney money and also being efficient in getting people from point A to B.
- Justin

 

[alissafalco]

On the show Modern Marvels they said it cost WDW 1 million dollars a mile to build the Epcot monorail in 1979. So who knows what it would cost now.

 

[Clamman73]

On the show Modern Marvels they said it cost WDW 1 million dollars a mile to build the Epcot monorail in 1979. So who knows what it would cost now.

It seemed back then that no matter what the cost, we're gonna build it because it's needed...as opposed to now.

 

[Clever Name]

It seemed back then that no matter what the cost, we're gonna build it because it's needed...as opposed to now.

It was only needed as an attraction. It has never served well as a transportation system. It has served well as a transportation oddity that people like to see. There is no need to expand the system.

 

[Polydweller]

On the show Modern Marvels they said it cost WDW 1 million dollars a mile to build the Epcot monorail in 1979. So who knows what it would cost now.

Bombardier is currently creating a monorail system in Sao Paulo Brazil that is running at $85 million to $100 million per mile.

 

[Polydweller]

It was only needed as an attraction. It has never served well as a transportation system. It has served well as a transportation oddity that people like to see. There is no need to expand the system.

If you were talking about the Disneyland monorail I'd agree, but now the Disney World monorail system handles about 200,000 passengers per day. That is a necessary transportation system, not easily replaced and not an attraction like Disneyland.

 

[HokieDevil]

http://monorails.org/tMspages/HowMuch.html

This link is set up by a group of Monorail fanatics and not just those of us that are begging for Disney to expand theirs. They look at all forms of monorails being built currently and are completely biased towards this mode of transportation. Though biased they do include some cost figure of different systems world wide.

 

[alissafalco]

It was only needed as an attraction. It has never served well as a transportation system. It has served well as a transportation oddity that people like to see. There is no need to expand the system.

This couldn't be any farther from the truth.

 

[alissafalco]

Bombardier is currently creating a monorail system in Sao Paulo Brazil that is running at $85 million to $100 million per mile.

Yes, exactly. Unfortunately it is very, very expensive.

 

[PeterAlt]

Yes, exactly. Unfortunately it is very, very expensive.

Again, a government-built system, not a good example. Government systems usually end up ten times more expensive for some reason. Also, I'm only talking about two extensions from EPCOT (DHS and DTD), neither are longer than a mile, I think. So, we're not talking about "miles and miles" of new track.

 

[articos]

There is expansion built into the EPCOT station footprint.

The Studios alignment you're talking about has been looked at multiple times over the years - it's the generally accepted alignment to Studios if this is ever to be built, although Soarin's in the way now and there would need to be a minor reroute. In the late 90s, one of the more recent serious looks at transportation on the property had this alignment from the EPCOT station expansion pad going by Seas through the gap between Imagination and Land (where the Soarin' show building is now) over to Studios, with a possible station pad for Yacht/Beach/BW/Swan/Dolphin and a likely continuation to Animal Kingdom. The company has also looked at utilizing light rail and other options.

Each new look takes the current needs of the property into account, and that changes, depending on what's being built, budgets, annual guest counts, who the current transpo execs are, governmental regulation, etc. I wouldn't take anything for granted until the permits are filed.

I'll add a bit on the thinking behind the planned-for expansion at the time, and how that ties to the EPCOT spur line that was incorporated into the blueprints for future expansion. In the early 70s, the company had grand plans for the Walt Disney World Village/LBV, including commercial space, residential, shopping and hotels, with multiple internal transportation modes, including scaled down monorail and PeopleMovers. There was still somewhat of a central plan to the property build out, centered around the intent that the FL property be a place where corporates, academia and government could come together to discuss problems of the day. (Something Walt supposedly passed down to the execs who knew him, including Nunis, Walker and Miller.) The thought was recreation was first (Magic Kingdom), then the community (Village) and the Center (EPCOT). All were to be linked by internal transportation, which at the time had monorail and PeopleMovers at the forefront. The expansion of the Walt Disney World Village was put on hold when EPCOT went forward. The footers for the spur line were poured within the confines of the construction zone, as was prudent, since they were already pouring them for the loop. There were no footers poured on the west side, as there was no need. Construction also lost a few of the piers to the soft lake-bed by Odyssey. When EPCOT was completed, after many rounds of changes, there was a plan in place for a large expansion to the Village, with a full New Orleans street section leading from the Empress Lilly to a New Orleans themed resort, including new shopping, dining and entertainment, plus expansion of the conference center and the treehouse villa condos. The plan in the fall of 1982 included a 2 mile double beam from EPCOT to the Village, with a new station at the Village. The Village was looked at quite differently back then, though, and the expansion of the monorail was considered a big marketing point. Then management changed, and all of the expansion plans changed with it.

 

[PhilharMagician]

If you were talking about the Disneyland monorail I'd agree, but now the Disney World monorail system handles about 200,000 passengers per day. That is a necessary transportation system, not easily replaced and not an attraction like Disneyland.

75% of the passengers moved are between the TTC and MK. The monorail is definately a necessity in this situation and works well with the short loop and the express stopping only at each end. Quick efficient transportation in this case.