Y'all should ...

[Lee]

James Cameron is a very detailed oriented person, he'll want the time table to work for Avatarland and Avatar 2,3 . . . can't see him not caring about the timeline. Practically, if a DHS Carsland was put on the front burner, it would divert certain resources from Avatarland, such as cash.

Cameron is working on his films, which are on indefinate hold.
There is no stipulation in his agreement with Disney as to a start/completion date for the project. There is no requirement that the land be open by the release of the next film, or the next.
If Carsland were to proceed simultaneously with Avatar, it would not divert anything from it. If more cash were needed to fund the second project, it would be allocated as needed from it's own budget.

Not sure what scale of time you're talking about, here you say that a new ship "isn't far away", and then in this same thread you say,

So either a new ship isn't far away, or they *might* build one in the next decade due to the profitability?

Technically, Disney could break ground with an expansion of DHS "within months" or maybe it will happen in the next decade?.

Sorry for the confusion. Perhaps I should clear up what I meant.
It is a certainty that the cruise fleet will expand. Not within the next 5 years, but quite possibly within the decade (assuming that the bookings remain solid and the cost of the steel is favorable).

Carsland, if greenlit, would likely begin in the very near future, meaning within the next 12 months.

The whole debate is rather academic at this point. I know (not think, not suspect...) that they are looking at doing DHS expansion in the short term, Avatar if/when it is ready, and the E in DL within the next few months.

 

[roodlesnouter]

Disney is going to spend a lot between now and 2015/6:

Avatarland to open in 2015/6: $500 million, ?
Shanghai Disneyland to open in 2015/6: 1.85 Billion (The 43% of Disney's investment.)

Grand Total: $2.35 billion dolars between now and 2015/6 when this stuff will (supposedly) open. (And I didn't add the perhaps $1 billion just for upkeep and upgrades at currently operated parks and attractions).

So, you want another $600 million for Carsland at DHS?

While Disney is waiting for the $2 billion or more for cruises (forgot the number) and $1.1 Billion for DCA to make a return on the investment?

With whats happening up the road I don't think the question should be can we afford it but can we afford not to.
UNI Will steal more market share if Disney take no action. Not only that, once UNIs HP2, New Hotel, Transformers, Seuss and whatever else opens, UNI will have another chunk of cash to invest.

Other Parks and attractions are also spending on improvements, all likely to impact a on a dated stale WDW.aa

IMHO Disney need to spend big and fast or they are in danger of losing out to there closest rivals.

 

[cynic710]

Cameron is working on his films, which are on indefinate hold.
There is no stipulation in his agreement with Disney as to a start/completion date for the project. There is no requirement that the land be open by the release of the next film, or the next.
If Carsland were to proceed simultaneously with Avatar, it would not divert anything from it. If more cash were needed to fund the second project, it would be allocated as needed from it's own budget.


Sorry for the confusion. Perhaps I should clear up what I meant.
It is a certainty that the cruise fleet will expand. Not within the next 5 years, but quite possibly within the decade (assuming that the bookings remain solid and the cost of the steel is favorable).

Carsland, if greenlit, would likely begin in the very near future, meaning within the next 12 months.

The whole debate is rather academic at this point. I know (not think, not suspect...) that they are looking at doing DHS expansion in the short term, Avatar if/when it is ready, and the E in DL within the next few months.

with the fleet expanding, does that mean port departures from new york will return? it is my understanding that 2012 was the last of new york departures.

 

[cynic710]

Indy needs to be updated but I'm in the "I've got to see the stunt show every time I'm at DHS" boat. I go once a year.

i agree, its a staple for every one of my trips, dispite knowing every line to the show..regardless, an update to the show is needed, and would really help keep the show going, DHS without indy just doesnt feel right to me.

 

[Pixiedustmaker]

Sorry for the confusion. Perhaps I should clear up what I meant.
It is a certainty that the cruise fleet will expand. Not within the next 5 years, but quite possibly within the decade (assuming that the bookings remain solid and the cost of the steel is favorable).

LOL, I'm sorry, but this is statement is so full of qualifiers that it doesn't mean anything. You say that it is a certainty that the cruise line will expand . . . but that it won't within the next 5 years, though possibly within the next decade *if* bookings stay solid and other factors. That is not a certainty, you are just saying that maybe five years from now Disney will think about building another ship.

Bottom Line: There is no certainty of another Disney cruise ship being built in the next five years, and you've just made an educated guess more than five years in the future because the cruise lines make a lot of cash, (though there are concerns about cannibalization which each new ship made).

If Carsland were to proceed simultaneously with Avatar, it would not divert anything from it. If more cash were needed to fund the second project, it would be allocated as needed from it's own budget.

We are talking about the same company that would in theory be paying for both projects, and in the end the money comes from the same pot. You're suggesting that WDW will commence construction on both Avatarland and Carsland, which would cost around $1.1 billion. Look, this is about what DCA 2.0 costed, and while they did BVS and Carsland at the same time, they did Mermaid prior to this, and World of Color prior to this other construction. DCA needed saving pronto, as its financials were horrible, not the same reality for WDW as a whole, and the park that is really getting the focus is Animal Kingdom.

Carsland, if greenlit, would likely begin in the very near future, meaning within the next 12 months.

The whole debate is rather academic at this point. I know (not think, not suspect...) that they are looking at doing DHS expansion in the short term, Avatar if/when it is ready, and the E in DL within the next few months.

We know that Carsland for DHS has not been greenlit. They probably wouldn't green light Carsland until they had a years worth of data from Carsland's first year, unless they for some bizarre reason made a rash decision.

You can say they are "looking" at DHS expansion, but this doesn't really mean anything, they do a lot of blue sky stuff, and much more is suggested than what is done. Even if they do green light Carsland, you first suggested that construction could begin within months, now it is within the next 12 months.

Bottom Line: You heard that expansion of DHS was being discussed. You are guessing that if they decide to expand DHS with Carsland then construction will happen in 12 months. Of course, such a course of action would necessarily take attention and perhaps some resources away from Avatarland, can't see Burbank doing this until they refined plans for Avatarland.

DCA 2.0 construction was spread out over many years, if Burbank decides to do Avatarland, Shanghai, *and* Carsland at the same time, this would be more construction going on than they have ever done.

Cameron is working on his films, which are on indefinate hold.
There is no stipulation in his agreement with Disney as to a start/completion date for the project. There is no requirement that the land be open by the release of the next film, or the next.

Cameron and Disney are aiming to have Avatarland open around the time Avatar 2 comes out. It would be a great way to get synergistic publicity for both endeavors. You can bet that Cameron is watching the timeline and development of Avatarland pretty closely, and having Avatarland open as Avatar 2 comes out would be the icing on the cake.

 

[Pixiedustmaker]

and the E in DL within the next few months.

Yes, simultaneously with Shanghai and Mr. Stark's thing at DL.

The E in DL within the next few months?!? We're about to enter the holiday period in Disneyland, they're not going to start shutting down major areas of Tomorrowland for some sort of Stark attraction, like you have said. Haven't heard anything about a Stark ride in Tomorrowland, would think they would save that idea for the Marvel Park if they do that.

 

[El Grupo]

DCA 2.0 construction was spread out over many years, if Burbank decides to do Avatarland, Shanghai, *and* Carsland at the same time, this would be more construction going on than they have ever done.

Ummm, didn't Disney build EPCOT and Tokyo Disneyland at the same time?
Wasn't California Adventure and Tokyo DisneySea built simultaneously?

 

[GoofGoof]

JT? That you?

 

[Magenta Panther]

Cameron and Disney are aiming to have Avatarland open around the time Avatar 2 comes out. It would be a great way to get synergistic publicity for both endeavors. You can bet that Cameron is watching the timeline and development of Avatarland pretty closely, and having Avatarland open as Avatar 2 comes out would be the icing on the cake.

Pardon me, I'm just a mere Disneyphile, no insider, not even a bus driver ....but you know all that...how?

 

[Californian Elitist]

The E in DL within the next few months?!? We're about to enter the holiday period in Disneyland, they're not going to start shutting down major areas of Tomorrowland for some sort of Stark attraction, like you have said. Haven't heard anything about a Stark ride in Tomorrowland, would think they would save that idea for the Marvel Park if they do that.

Why can't we have both a Marvel attraction in DL and a separate Marvel theme park?

 

[Lee]

The E in DL within the next few months?!? We're about to enter the holiday period in Disneyland, they're not going to start shutting down major areas of Tomorrowland for some sort of Stark attraction, like you have said. Haven't heard anything about a Stark ride in Tomorrowland, would think they would save that idea for the Marvel Park if they do that.

I apologize...by "few months" I didn't mean that you could expect to see major construction in TL.
Fact is, WDI has already taken up residence in TL, and early work is already underway. Much more work will be apparent after New Years.
Seems Bob doesn't want to wait on the Marvel park, and is looking to counter the west coast Potter with Iron Man.

Ummm, didn't Disney build EPCOT and Tokyo Disneyland at the same time?
Wasn't California Adventure and Tokyo DisneySea built simultaneously?

Yep. The Studios park in Paris was underway during the DCA/TDS timeframe as well.
It is quite possible for them to handle multiple major projects simultaneously.

 

[Magenta Panther]

I apologize...by "few months" I didn't mean that you could expect to see major construction in TL.
Fact is, WDI has already taken up residence in TL, and early work is already underway. Much more work will be apparent after New Years.
Seems Bob doesn't want to wait on the Marvel park, and is looking to counter the west coast Potter with Iron Man.

Frankly, I wonder how successful that would be. Superheroes appeal primarily to a very narrow demographic, mostly young males and little boys. Potter appeals to all ages (its book sales alone have proven that), so it has a much better chance at luring more visitors. Comparing Iron Man to Potter is like comparing apples to oranges IMO.

 

[Lee]

Frankly, I wonder how successful that would be. Superheroes appeal primarily to a very narrow demographic, mostly young males and little boys. Potter appeals to all ages (its book sales alone have proven that), so it has a much better chance at luring more visitors. Comparing Iron Man to Potter is like comparing apples to oranges IMO.

Doesn't matter.
A great ride based on a popular property will do just fine. And sell a lot of merchandise.
It won't outdo Potter, but it will drive some attendance and sales.

 

[Californian Elitist]

Frankly, I wonder how successful that would be. Superheroes appeal primarily to a very narrow demographic, mostly young males and little boys. Potter appeals to all ages (its book sales alone have proven that), so it has a much better chance at luring more visitors. Comparing Iron Man to Potter is like comparing apples to oranges IMO.

Marvel appeals to everyone. I'm a twenty-year old female and for my birthday this year, I bought myself a huge Marvel cake. I bought Marvel decorations and decked out my living room. I had Iron Man cups, Spider-Man everywhere, Hulk napkins, etc. I even had a Marvel outfit on. Myself, my fifty-year old mother and my nineteen-year old sister all went to see The Avengers as soon as it came out, and we were all screaming and cheering at the end. There were all sorts of different demographics in that theater; men, women, little boys, little girls, elderly men and elderly women. Marvel appeals to everyone, even more so than Harry Potter, IMO.

Here's what my birthday cake looked like this year:

 

[spaceghost]

LOL, I'm sorry, but this is statement is so full of qualifiers that it doesn't mean anything. You say that it is a certainty that the cruise line will expand . . . but that it won't within the next 5 years, though possibly within the next decade *if* bookings stay solid and other factors. That is not a certainty, you are just saying that maybe five years from now Disney will think about building another ship.

Bottom Line: There is no certainty of another Disney cruise ship being built in the next five years, and you've just made an educated guess more than five years in the future because the cruise lines make a lot of cash, (though there are concerns about cannibalization which each new ship made).




We are talking about the same company that would in theory be paying for both projects, and in the end the money comes from the same pot. You're suggesting that WDW will commence construction on both Avatarland and Carsland, which would cost around $1.1 billion. Look, this is about what DCA 2.0 costed, and while they did BVS and Carsland at the same time, they did Mermaid prior to this, and World of Color prior to this other construction. DCA needed saving pronto, as its financials were horrible, not the same reality for WDW as a whole, and the park that is really getting the focus is Animal Kingdom.



We know that Carsland for DHS has not been greenlit. They probably wouldn't green light Carsland until they had a years worth of data from Carsland's first year, unless they for some bizarre reason made a rash decision.

You can say they are "looking" at DHS expansion, but this doesn't really mean anything, they do a lot of blue sky stuff, and much more is suggested than what is done. Even if they do green light Carsland, you first suggested that construction could begin within months, now it is within the next 12 months.

Bottom Line: You heard that expansion of DHS was being discussed. You are guessing that if they decide to expand DHS with Carsland then construction will happen in 12 months. Of course, such a course of action would necessarily take attention and perhaps some resources away from Avatarland, can't see Burbank doing this until they refined plans for Avatarland.

DCA 2.0 construction was spread out over many years, if Burbank decides to do Avatarland, Shanghai, *and* Carsland at the same time, this would be more construction going on than they have ever done.



Cameron and Disney are aiming to have Avatarland open around the time Avatar 2 comes out. It would be a great way to get synergistic publicity for both endeavors. You can bet that Cameron is watching the timeline and development of Avatarland pretty closely, and having Avatarland open as Avatar 2 comes out would be the icing on the cake.

You remind me of my 6 y/o daughter - I have to keep reminding her that just because she says something doesn't make it true. You are just some random person on the internet theorizing what you think may or may not be happening. You are not a trusted source that has posted here for years and had their information vetted time and time again. To paraphrase an oft used, but still relevant quote: I've read Lee's posts. I've "liked" Lee's posts. You sir, are no Lee.

 

[Magenta Panther]

Doesn't matter.
A great ride based on a popular property will do just fine. And sell a lot of merchandise.
It won't outdo Potter, but it will drive some attendance and sales.

Good point. So I guess my second question is this: If a Marvel attraction is build at DLR, how many people besides myself are going to ask themselves: "What's Iron Man doing in Disneyland? That's weird. Why is Disneyland imitating Universal, which has also has a ride based on a Marvel superhero?" See, that kind of thing bugs me. A lot. Granted, your typical 8-year-old boy isn't going to care, but for someone who goes to a Disney park because they love DISNEY, it matters. Marvel and Disney are a very odd, very unpalatable mix in my view. I'm really afraid that just one Marvel attraction in a Disney park is going to cheapen the Disney "magic", the ambience, the legacy, what have you...I myself will never step foot on any Marvel ride at a Disney park, and yeah, I liked some of the Marvel heroes when I was a kid, just like I liked the DC heroes...but when I go to Disneyland and WDW, I don't want to see them there. At all. Period. I'm really worried that Disney parks are going to become a mish-mash of ill-fitting off-studio purchased properties.

And I think that SUCKS.

 

[El Grupo]

Doesn't matter.
A great ride based on a popular property will do just fine. And sell a lot of merchandise.
It won't outdo Potter, but it will drive some attendance and sales.

Lee, please allow me to take this thread a bit off course by asking you to venture a guess on future additions to the MK.

What are the chances for a major refurb of TL with new rides and/or the addition of an E-ticket to Adventureland (Fire Mountain, Lost Expedition, other attraction) by the 50th anniversary?

 

[Magenta Panther]

Marvel appeals to everyone. I'm a twenty-year old female and for my birthday this year, I bought myself a huge Marvel cake. I bought Marvel decorations and decked out my living room. I had Iron Man cups, Spider-Man everywhere, Hulk napkins, etc. I even had a Marvel outfit on. Myself, my fifty-year old mother and my nineteen-year old sister all went to see The Avengers as soon as it came out, and we were all screaming and cheering at the end. There were all sorts of different demographics in that theater; men, women, little boys, little girls, elderly men and elderly women. Marvel appeals to everyone, even more so than Harry Potter, IMO.

Here's what my birthday cake looked like this year:

It's nice you like them. I see them as adolescent male power fantasies, and I outgrew that some time ago. *shrug*

 

[Magenta Panther]

Lee, please allow me to take this thread a bit off course by asking you to venture a guess on future additions to the MK.

What are the chances for a major refurb of TL with new rides and/or the addition of an E-ticket to Adventureland (Fire Mountain, Lost Expedition, other attraction) by the 50th anniversary?

I bet none of that will happen while Iger's still in charge. But it sure as hell would be nice if they happened someday.

 

[Californian Elitist]

It's nice you like them. I see them as adolescent male power fantasies, and I outgrew that some time ago. *shrug*

That's you though. You're the minority, Marvel is huge and seriously popular. I don't think the company would have bought Marvel and created plans on building an attraction and an entire theme park if Marvel wasn't such a huge hit. Look at IOA at Universal.