WSJ: Even Disney Is Worried About The High Cost Of A Disney Vacation (gift link)

Chi84

Chi84

Premium Member
DisneyHead123 said:
I dunno, maybe I’m the exception not the rule. But I’m pretty happy with the parks overall, with some notable exceptions (Magic Express, Rivers, pell mell theming, the first version of Genie although I haven’t tried the updated pre book feature on the new one). The one argument for the 80s over today that I would find extremely compelling is the reduced environmental footprint - I do feel the burn of internal hypocrisy on that one. The merch, new cruise ships, increased food offerings and so on come at - a price. A very high price. So there’s that. But at a purely personal appeal level? Maybe I’m nuts but I’m still a fan (other than the cost, which of course no one likes.)
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I agree with much of what you’ve said. People like different things; it doesn’t make you “nuts.”

Disney parks still have a huge fan base. The parks are fine if you can afford them.
 
Jrb1979

Jrb1979

Well-Known Member
Agent H said:
Is it? I’ve yet to see any definitive proof of this.
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You will never get the exact answer as Disney doesn't release actual numbers. They have said attendance has been flat or down the last few quarters. Add in that Florida is seeing record numbers of travelers to the state but many are avoiding the swamp. That's all parks.
 
hopemax

hopemax

Well-Known Member
DisneyHead123 said:
Totally subjective, but I feel like people look back on the WDW of yore with rose colored glasses, while there's a lot of "hedonistic treadmill" effect today. Unpopular opinion but I actually think the parks are leaps and bounds better now than they were in the 70s, 80s and 90s. I loved the parks in the 80s / 90s, but I also recall they were sweltering, it was in the days before Gentle Parenting so if your parents told you to stand in an hour long line in the sun you damn well stood in an hour long line, and most of Epcot was boring as all get out. This woman is saying the new system is too complicated, but it's not like the alternative was to jump on any ride you wanted in 10 minutes back in the day. It was to wait for an eternity or to skip that ride, both of which I remember doing. We just didn't ride Dumbo, or consider riding it, because the lines were way too long, and that was that.
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Your example is for an attraction that Disney *actually doubled the capacity* of. They recognized Dumbo was a problem, and they didn't just slap a $30 "bypass the standby line" upcharge for it. I suspect current Disney considers that a mistake. If there was still a single spinner, there would be more demand, less labor and maintenance costs, and more people would actively choose a LL for it (adding to the value of LL), because it would have longer regular waits. But it was an improvement that benefited all guests.

However, in this new arrangement I ride Dumbo a lot less. I used to ride Dumbo, and planned for it, and now I don't. In the old location, there was a benefit flying over central Fantasyland, that even as an adult I could appreciate, especially at night, that doesn't exist in the new spot, between the building and the trees. Which is better? I would still take the capacity improvements, but hoped Imagineers gave more thought to the site lines while in flight.
 
Agent H

Agent H

Well-Known Member
Jrb1979 said:
You will never get the exact answer as Disney doesn't release actual numbers. They have said attendance has been flat or down the last few quarters. Add in that Florida is seeing record numbers of travelers to the state but many are avoiding the swamp. That's all parks.
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That doesn’t directly correlate to “the fan base shinking” though also by all parks do you mean universal too? Or just Disney?
 
Agent H

Agent H

Well-Known Member
hopemax said:
Your example is for an attraction that Disney *actually doubled the capacity* of. They recognized Dumbo was a problem, and they didn't just slap a $30 "bypass the standby line" upcharge for it. I suspect current Disney considers that a mistake. If there was still a single spinner, there would be more demand, less labor and maintenance costs, and more people would actively choose a LL for it (adding to the value of LL), because it would have longer regular waits. But it was an improvement that benefited all guests.

However, in this new arrangement I ride Dumbo a lot less. I used to ride Dumbo, and planned for it, and now I don't. In the old location, there was a benefit flying over central Fantasyland, that even as an adult I could appreciate, especially at night, that doesn't exist in the new spot, between the building and the trees. Which is better? I would still take the capacity improvements, but hoped Imagineers gave more thought to the site lines while in flight.
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You mean Tomorrowland? I’m not really sure what they could do to change that short of putting up plywood circus tents or something else cheap.
 
Agent H

Agent H

Well-Known Member
Jrb1979 said:
Universal too. You can't have much of a fanbase if they are being priced out and can't afford to go.
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Attendance being down does not immediately mean their diehard fans are being priced out. I'd imagine more tourists are being priced out because of the economy and that is only going to get worse.
 
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Jrb1979

Jrb1979

Well-Known Member
Agent H said:
Attendance being down does not immediately mean people are their diehard fans are being priced out I'd imagine more tourists are being priced out the economy and that is only going to get worse.
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That's the biggest problem. There is more tourist who visit the parks than diehard. Attendance is down now with travel still up. What's going to happen when that drops due to the economy?

The biggest question is if this continues how much do budgets get cut for the new attractions
 
Agent H

Agent H

Well-Known Member
Jrb1979 said:
That's the biggest problem. There is more tourist who visit the parks than diehard. Attendance is down now with travel still up. What's going to happen when that drops due to the economy?

The biggest question is if this continues how much do budgets get cut for the new attractions
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My guess. there going to rely more on annual pass holders.
 
D

DisneyHead123

Well-Known Member
Sirwalterraleigh said:
They aren’t pricing for the “upper middle class”…which is the point.

To use your parents example…Disney trips are getting the stigma of not “worth the hassle”

Genie really blew the top off that powderkeg…but it also turned the lights on some of the other roaches under the couch

Like the after hours…an awful trend that was mistaken tolerate by customers…

Now it’s getting rage for what it is…robbing your parks hours - with high costs and bogged down lines - so they can resell the park for almost no overhead at a premium.

How could that have ever been sniffed out?
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I dunno... I definitely felt that way about 3 years ago, but I've slowly warmed to the parks again. There is still a lot of love for Disney parks among people I know and we're not talking about uber wealthy people.

I guess 3 years ago it felt like it was nothing but cuts. Now? I feel like the proposed tradeoff is more of the "big stuff", in terms of park investment, new rides, new parades, hotels, etc. The customer service is still pretty darn good, to my mind, but I don't think it will ever be what it was circa 1970s given labor shortages and how much their operations have grown. I think they'll jump to automate things as soon as that's feasible and that will help a little with labor, but I see shortages in customer services being an ongoing problem. It's a new era for sure but at this point I see more upside to it than I did 3 years ago. If the promised improvements and investments never materialize feel free to work on an "I told you so" dance, lol. But for now I think they really mean it.
 
D

DisneyHead123

Well-Known Member
hopemax said:
Your example is for an attraction that Disney *actually doubled the capacity* of. They recognized Dumbo was a problem, and they didn't just slap a $30 "bypass the standby line" upcharge for it. I suspect current Disney considers that a mistake. If there was still a single spinner, there would be more demand, less labor and maintenance costs, and more people would actively choose a LL for it (adding to the value of LL), because it would have longer regular waits. But it was an improvement that benefited all guests.

However, in this new arrangement I ride Dumbo a lot less. I used to ride Dumbo, and planned for it, and now I don't. In the old location, there was a benefit flying over central Fantasyland, that even as an adult I could appreciate, especially at night, that doesn't exist in the new spot, between the building and the trees. Which is better? I would still take the capacity improvements, but hoped Imagineers gave more thought to the site lines while in flight.
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I can't tell if you're agreeing or disagreeing with what I said or a bit of both. I feel Dumbo was an improvement although at this point I get kind of sad about any of the iconic rides being changed. It's still pretty true to form though.
 
Nubs70

Nubs70

Well-Known Member
HauntedPirate said:

Orlando FL Average Temperatures by Month - Current Results

Detailed temperature information for Orlando, Florida with statistics on average monthly highs and lows plus number of days with hot or cold weather.
www.currentresults.com www.currentresults.com

Other sites provide similar numbers. Remember these are years-long averages, not a one-month snapshot.
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ChatGPT simply scrubs the internet for existing information. No wonder similar sites provide similar numbers.
 
Tha Realest

Tha Realest

Well-Known Member
TheMaxRebo said:
Oh, like close to none .... But there are numbers you can put into a spreadsheet that show ifyou went on the cheapest date in 2018 and then cheapest date in 2024, adjusted for inflation it isn't that different


Problem is most people don't/can't go on the cheapest date so pricing is up and now you have to add in transport from the airport, etc
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But “the cheapest date” is almost nonexistent.
Agent H said:
Is it? I’ve yet to see any definitive proof of this.
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Well, for starters, check out the fact that Florida tourism visitors and Walt Disney World attendance is heading in opposite directions.
 

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