Wow! Monorail Orange.

[Timon]

WDW needs a train wash like this one in Brazil for this Bombardier 300 monorail - a distant Mark VI cousin.

 

[nace888]

WDW needs a train wash like this one in Brazil for this Bombardier 300 monorail - a distant Mark VI cousin.

That wouldn't work. The Innovia 300 is actually much larger than WDW could tolerate. That wash though is cool.

 

[Timon]

That wouldn't work. The Innovia 300 is actually much larger than WDW could tolerate. That wash though is cool.

Geez nace88 - I'm just saying WDW should have a car wash "similar" to this one. No one would buy a car washer that wouldn't work for their trains. I thought "seeing" one in action would imply that other places with monorails wash their trains with a machine so maybe Disney should too.

 

[nace888]

Geez nace88 - I'm just saying WDW should have a car wash "similar" to this one. No one would buy a car washer that wouldn't work for their trains. I thought "seeing" one in action would imply that other places with monorails wash their trains with a machine so maybe Disney should too.

I realize that. I'd misread what you'd said. Please forgive, i just woke up lol

 

[Timon]

Break out the coffee beans!

Many people in the US think monorails are just slow pokey attractions in theme parks. I try to show examples of real full size monorails in other countries as examples of what can be done. I grew up loving the Mark IV and Mark VI trains and have driven the Mark IV and made training videos for the Mark VI and am very familiar with the WDW trains and their limitations. Whenever a city in the US (LA I'm pointing at you) suggests a new mass transit monorail out come the pictures of toy monorails from theme parks and ridicule from railroad fans. Raely do they show Monorails doing what they are proposing - being a part of a mass transit solution.

Monorails are a mass transit tool which should be installed where they make the most economical sense. Monorails are great for places like congested urban areas where buying right-of-way land would be prohibitive. Or. Often budgets don't allow for subways, water table is too high, or long construction timetables. (NYC Line 2)

I hope someday Disney will buy a new set of trains from Bombardier. I know Disney had a tiff with them when they bought the Mark VI but as they say "there are two sides to every story". Bombardier builds all kinds of trains and it's bad for business to have unhappy customers if you hope to do business with them again. They also own the former Disney monorail patents for the Mark VI style trains and advanced the technology in their Innovia monorail 200 and 300 models. So a new set of WDW sized trains would benefit from this experience. While other companies or Disney themselves could build a new set of monorails themselves they likely wouldn't have the experience of building trains daily for decades. The Disney designed Mark VII Disneyland trains are "pretty" but drove maintenance nuts getting the bugs out for years. Who builds dark colored trains in a hot climate with no air conditioning or windows that open! These Mark VII trains are truly a theme park ride with per train capacity of 122 passengers vs WDW 360 or real world monorail trains vs Innovia 300 (7 car) with 1000 passengers. Other manufacturers build their monorails where the chassis and power train gear are all below the floor which is the Hitachi patent also used by BFD of China. Scomi follows the original ALWEG design where the drive train is partly hidden below central seating. These designs makes the trains taller while Bombardier has the former Disney patents for low floor design and thus the sleeker look which works well with the limitations of the existing WDW monorail clearances.

The simplest path Disney could do is contract Bombardier to replace the train bodies/interiors and replace the hardware with new hardware on the old chassis. One can hope.

 

[nace888]

Break out the coffee beans!

Many people in the US think monorails are just slow pokey attractions in theme parks. I try to show examples of real full size monorails in other countries as examples of what can be done. I grew up loving the Mark IV and Mark VI trains and have driven the Mark IV and made training videos for the Mark VI and am very familiar with the WDW trains and their limitations. Whenever a city in the US (LA I'm pointing at you) suggests a new mass transit monorail out come the pictures of toy monorails from theme parks and ridicule from railroad fans. Raely do they show Monorails doing what they are proposing - being a part of a mass transit solution.

Monorails are a mass transit tool which should be installed where they make the most economical sense. Monorails are great for places like congested urban areas where buying right-of-way land would be prohibitive. Or. Often budgets don't allow for subways, water table is too high, or long construction timetables. (NYC Line 2)

I hope someday Disney will buy a new set of trains from Bombardier. I know Disney had a tiff with them when they bought the Mark VI but as they say "there are two sides to every story". Bombardier builds all kinds of trains and it's bad for business to have unhappy customers if you hope to do business with them again. They also own the former Disney monorail patents for the Mark VI style trains and advanced the technology in their Innovia monorail 200 and 300 models. So a new set of WDW sized trains would benefit from this experience. While other companies or Disney themselves could build a new set of monorails themselves they likely wouldn't have the experience of building trains daily for decades. The Disney designed Mark VII Disneyland trains are "pretty" but drove maintenance nuts getting the bugs out for years. Who builds dark colored trains in a hot climate with no air conditioning or windows that open! These Mark VII trains are truly a theme park ride with per train capacity of 122 passengers vs WDW 360 or real world monorail trains vs Innovia 300 (7 car) with 1000 passengers. Other manufacturers build their monorails where the chassis and power train gear are all below the floor which is the Hitachi patent also used by BFD of China. Scomi follows the original ALWEG design where the drive train is partly hidden below central seating. These designs makes the trains taller while Bombardier has the former Disney patents for low floor design and thus the sleeker look which works well with the limitations of the existing WDW monorail clearances.

The simplest path Disney could do is contract Bombardier to replace the train bodies/interiors and replace the hardware with new hardware on the old chassis. One can hope.

I'll take my Mark VIII design very willingly lol! If you'd like I can show you.

My plan would allow to remove the middle bench but open the floor up to standees.

 

[Timon]

You mean like this ...

 

[nace888]

You mean like this ...

For seating yes... My Mark VIII design though, it's more of aesthetics. XD

 

[nace888]

http://forums.wdwmagic.com/threads/...n-not-sure-where-to-post.888497/#post-6270650

 

[Timon]

Removing the bench is an easy upgrade that could have been included in the recent paint job and maintenance. It would help so much with people flow to fill and unload each car. Love the fresh paint job on Orange.

As commented in you other post about design. The look thru front of the Innovia 300 is due to a totally different drive design and is shorter and more compact (Bombardier bringing in their experience). To bring a shorter drive wheel/bogey to the Mark VI class of train would be a totally new design and chassis. Too much money for a cosmetic update but reasonable for a new set of trains.

Older MarkVI and Innovia 200 design:
Single large tire, offset motor and drive shaft

New shorter design bogey:
Dual tires with motor mounted within tires, removable one piece bogey

Modern monorail nose design today has to have safety bumpers for collision and automatic coupling for train to train towing. Usually all covered up under a automatic hood like below. How it all looks is up to the client.

 

[Monorail_Orange]

Removing the bench is an easy upgrade that could have been included in the recent paint job and maintenance. It would help so much with people flow to fill and unload each car. Love the fresh paint job on Orange.

As commented in you other post about design. The look thru front of the Innovia 300 is due to a totally different drive design and is shorter and more compact (Bombardier bringing in their experience). To bring a shorter drive wheel/bogey to the Mark VI class of train would be a totally new design and chassis. Too much money for a cosmetic update but reasonable for a new set of trains.

Older MarkVI and Innovia 200 design:
Single large tire, offset motor and drive shaft

New shorter design bogey:
Dual tires with motor mounted within tires, removable one piece bogey

Modern monorail nose design today has to have safety bumpers for collision and automatic coupling for train to train towing. Usually all covered up under a automatic hood like below. How it all looks is up to the client.

Interesting revision of the bogey. Perhaps it's just the angle of the photo, but the dual-tire design of the innovia 300 looks too wide for WDW's beamways.

 

[Timon]

Remember I said it would have to be redesigned for a Innovia 200/MarkVI type train and a new chassis to hold it. The track width is actually only 1" narrower. The cars are about 18" narrower.

 

[nace888]

Remember I said it would have to be redesigned for a Innovia 200/MarkVI type train and a new chassis to hold it. The track width is actually only 1" narrower. The cars are about 18" narrower.

IF the new bogey design came into play, then the half walls between the cabins would work well, I think... I know there won't be a walkthrough train, but it would help with evacuations, airflow, and overall open the cabin more. WITH THE NEW STYLE, I hadn't thought of train to train coupling, though I think it could be supported below somehow... Maybe...

I wanna say Disney plans to keep the front cab separate, but I'm not sure... Therefore, I'm not sure how that could come into play.

 

[Timon]

Knowing what yard-apes some Disney customers have, I would put some safety glass between the nose and the cabin. Still get that superview even if they never let guest in the nose again. Yup no walk-thru on that scale train.

Here's how the bumper and coupler are arranged on the Innovia 300.

Here's the Innovia 200/Mark VI scale train with the old single wheel design.
Not a lot of room. If your thinking "ah ha" space on the right ...no ...the next car is flipped so the motor and gear hang on the far side.

 

[nace888]

Knowing what yard-apes some Disney customers have, I would put some safety glass between the nose and the cabin. Still get that superview even if they never let guest in the nose again. Yup no walk-thru on that scale train.

Here's how the bumper and coupler are arranged on the Innovia 300.

Here's the Innovia 200/Mark VI scale train with the old single wheel design.
Not a lot of room. If your thinking "ah ha" space on the right ...no ...the next car is flipped so the motor and gear hang on the far side.

Oh trust me, in my design, there would be glass there. They get to see the cool stuff plus look out the front of the train, but they won't get to reach into the train. The only way that would be open is by the pilot's side. That's my idea, anyways.

As for the Innovia 200 design, it's clearly visible that a walkthrough won't work, so those "half walls" can come into play, offering better airflow, and SOME air if a car or two happens to have a malfunction.

As far as front to front coupling, I don't see how well that would work on the WDW system... I could see an inverted design maybe, opening and lowering to below the nose, but I don't know how well that would work. IT WOULD however, help if they can't get a tractor in there, they could dispatch a train to retrieve the other one... Who knows... Monorails are slowly progressing into the technologically advanced mode of transport that everyone hoped they would be. I DID have the idea that maybe the coupling could happen along the skirt? There's a gap between the top guide wheels and the bottom, maybe something simple could be slid between there?

 

[Timon]

The coupling has to work even in a turn or curved section, which means the further you deviate from the center the longer your coupling will have to reach out. It might be easier to find a new or different way the open the front.

The French High Speed TGV trains have a long nose which splits and slides inside for example

 

[nace888]

My concern with this on the Mark VI monorails, is that there's not much structural integrity in the cabs, is there?? The main frame ends just behinds the pilot's seat, doesn't it? I suppose with that in mind, it could be redesigned to compensate for such...

 

[Disone]

Interesting revision of the bogey. Perhaps it's just the angle of the photo, but the dual-tire design of the innovia 300 looks too wide for WDW's beamways.

An Innovia 300's beam is wider then a 200's.

 

[Monorail_Orange]

An Innovia 300's beam is wider then a 200's.

Indeed. I think the concept could be adapted into a design compatible with the Mark VI/Innovia 200 foot print, however, either with 2 narrower tires, or keeping with the one singular tire and moving the motor inside the drive wheel.

 

[Timon]

The cabs on Mark I to VII are treated like add-ons. They do not have continuous chassis structure to the nose, hence the deadly accident. You can bet it will whenever they get new trains.