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Worst mistake in Epcot history
- Thread starter HMF
- Start date
"El Gran Magnifico"
Mr Flibble is Very Cross.
Let's start with the axing of the World Showcase Players.
EPCOTCenterLover
Well-Known Member
And the World Showcase double decker busses.
Figments Friend
Well-Known Member
Mickeynerd17
Well-Known Member
As much as I wish the Horizons structure was kept, Imagination is ultimately the worst decision listed.
Although I prefer Illuminations over Harmonious, Harmonious works enough as a show to please crowds with its technology and water screens.
It hurts me to say this, but Horizons being replaced by Mission Space isn't as bad as imagination purely because Mission Space is an excellent attraction itself. It really should've been an addition between the Land and Living Seas as per the original space pavilion plans. I still think a mission space overhaul with a new building over the simulators, a PPF style attraction, and larger post-show area would do wonders to the pavilion.
Imagination is single-handedly the worst of them all by a long shot. The original was the most timeless thing in Epcot and was replaced by a budget cut mediocre attraction with a storyline held together with duct tape only to be replaced two years later by a "temporary fix" that's lasted longer than 90% of the original Future World pavilions despite being inferior in multiple ways.
I don't think there has been a single ride that's been messed up as bad, and that is only because Superstar Limo didn't replace anything.
Although I prefer Illuminations over Harmonious, Harmonious works enough as a show to please crowds with its technology and water screens.
It hurts me to say this, but Horizons being replaced by Mission Space isn't as bad as imagination purely because Mission Space is an excellent attraction itself. It really should've been an addition between the Land and Living Seas as per the original space pavilion plans. I still think a mission space overhaul with a new building over the simulators, a PPF style attraction, and larger post-show area would do wonders to the pavilion.
Imagination is single-handedly the worst of them all by a long shot. The original was the most timeless thing in Epcot and was replaced by a budget cut mediocre attraction with a storyline held together with duct tape only to be replaced two years later by a "temporary fix" that's lasted longer than 90% of the original Future World pavilions despite being inferior in multiple ways.
I don't think there has been a single ride that's been messed up as bad, and that is only because Superstar Limo didn't replace anything.
Mickeynerd17
Well-Known Member
Agree on those points, especially with Misson Space. That pavilion has so much potential.
Honey I Shrunk the Audience wasn't the single killer of Imagination. Sure, it provided a convenient theme for a replacement, but it wasn't the main blow.
As much of a crowd-flow masterpiece it was, it also was a mainteneance nightmare with its exceptionally advanced ride system and its constant breakdown issues. People tend to forget that was an issue. Lord knows what kind of money Disney would've had to shell out to fix the system, if it was even possible, and Kodak was in no position to keep sponsoring with their financial issues. Even though they renewed, they seemingly didn't dump a dime into the pavilion as far as I know.
Ultimately, like Horizons, money (thanks to Euro Disneyland) killed Imagination.
Also, the fact TDO didn't realize how much Dreamfinder and Figment were popular among guests was another major blow. I'd put that second to finances.
Club Cooloholic
Well-Known Member
I think the shift from Horizons to Mission Space is indicative of the shift in overall focus and tone of Future World and Epcot. It was moving from learning while thrilling to just straight thrilling with some minor learning. The first requires updating and innovation. The latter well, just look at Space Mountain and you can see one good thrill ride requires very little updating.
Epcot could have been amazing if was constantly evolving in how to educated.
Epcot could have been amazing if was constantly evolving in how to educated.
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Goofyernmost
Well-Known Member
Let's face it, as attendance grew someone was bound to get run over. Especially true after they started pushing more and more booze consumption. It was a logical choice.
TikibirdLand
Well-Known Member
Oh, and the walkways are too narrow now with all the food booths.
It gets very crowded during Food and Wine, many if not all eat and drink standing up, but we use the outside garbage cans as a makeshift table for food and drink. The serious drinkers trying to drink around the world have their personalized drinking shirts on.
Bocabear
Well-Known Member
Kind of sad spending $40 on small plate appetizers and then having to balance your $12 drink and food morsel on top of a garbage can...
As they continue to add food booths, they also need to think about seating and table areas...
At this point I would rather get a reservation to eat in one of the restaurants where I can at least have a surface to put my food and drink on...
and truthfully it is cheaper in the end.
As they continue to add food booths, they also need to think about seating and table areas...
At this point I would rather get a reservation to eat in one of the restaurants where I can at least have a surface to put my food and drink on...
and truthfully it is cheaper in the end.
The big spenders go to Party for the Senses at World Showcase pavilion building all u can eat and drink from 4pm-9pm. I believe there are at least 40 cooking stations, a number of drink stations and Cirque performers doing a set in one part of the building one year. Ticket per person is $229-359 ( more expensive ticket is better seating location ) per person Not including park entrance ticket.
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RoysCabin
Well-Known Member
That's true, the turntable was a hassle when it came to maintenance, I'm sure. The sad part, though, is that Disney is now so many times larger than it was when Imagination was first constructed, it can practically operate as its own small country, yet they're utterly uninterested in putting money into restoring and improving the original ride/pavilion concept now that they'd have no need of a sponsor. They'll only do it if they've got an IP to sell us, so I guess cross your fingers for a Figment and Dreamfinder show on Disney+.
Interesting talk on World of Motion vs. Horizons. Horizons just worked for me because there were so few things like it: a truly lengthy dark ride that operated more like you were moving through a film, given the way the ride vehicle focused you on each tableau that went by and the various "fade and wipe" effects that would be used between scenes as transitions, and it made it very, very engrossing. WoM was a ride I wish had a chance to be updated: the whole "the automobile is the solution to all of our problems!" message just doesn't work so well anymore, but it still had the legendary Gary Owens narrating and that over the top Mark Davis sensibility and comedic pacing/timing/expression worked in. Plus, hey, it had more animatronics than any other attraction, didn't it?
Concerning World Showcase "turning into a bar", I can't lie, I've done a couple tours around the world in my time and had fun doing so. That said, get out of here with the whole "personalized group drinking t-shirt" stuff; comes off like people who go out to get annihilated on St. Patricks Day, a sure sign of an amateur who's too likely to use their drinking as an excuse to make others annoyed or uncomfortable. Leave a boozy circuit around WS to people who actually have a concept of what their tastes and limits are.
Brer Panther
Well-Known Member
So Disneyland Paris resulted in the creation of Journey Into YOUR Imagination?
I'm really starting to resent that park.
I'm really starting to resent that park.
Cmdr_Crimson
Well-Known Member
When EPCOT had a Circus...Done!
Mickeynerd17
Well-Known Member
Very simplified explanation, but indirectly yes.
It would be unwise to completely diss Paris though. It was the last disney-only (if I remember correctly) financed park, and they truly went all-out with it. The castle looks outright gorgeous and their BTM, phantom manor, and space mountain attractions are all top-tier.
Also, don't forget they have the largest swiss family treehouse of any park with caverns underneath.
Sure, they lost a lot of cash with the place, but let's not forget how Disney nearly went bankrupt building EPCOT WITH sponsorships.
Slight topic switch, but I just realized it's pretty funny when the entire EPCOT park took 3 years to build while GOTG took five. Even without covid that's probably 3.5 years. Incredible.
DoleWhipDrea
Well-Known Member
Turning Journey Into Imagination into Journey Into YOUR Imagination is not only the biggest EPCOT blunder, but one of the biggest theme park blunders to ever occur. They had a classic attraction with iconic characters, imagery and a memorable score. It honestly should have found its way into other Disney Parks. They had gold and in a series of bad decisions royally screwed up.
The Millennium Celebration was coming up and execs needed some new things to advertise to drive attendance. The trouble was that the poor opening of Euro Disney, the tragic death of Frank Wells, and several other troubles had had a profound effect on Eisner's attitude in handling things within Disney and the parks. The goal was to spend as little money as possible. But hey, some attractions had sponsors with contracts, and if they wanted to keep those contracts, they would have to pay. JII was in need of a refurb (various effects were troublesome and needed fixing.)
Not everyone working for the mouse really appreciated what they had - it's said that various acts of sabotage occurred at some attractions. This was done for HIStA's queue with it's placement to trick guests to not visit JII and lower the ride count. Disney then allegedly took this information back to Kodak to put pressure on them to put up the money for a major overhaul. WDI wowed the Kodak reps with lights and sounds for a pitch for the new attraction. Unfortunately, the world was going digital and Kodak wasn't getting with the times, so they financially couldn't spend much. This should have been the moment where someone said, "This isn't enough funding to do what we want to do. Let's just give Imagination a good refurbishment, plus up the special effects etc." Unfortunately Imagineers were hungry to make a name for themselves and full of hubris.
Clearly guests loved HIStA, so WDI decided to extend that theming in the ride's makeover and brought Eric Idle back to reprise his role. During the process of redoing the attraction, although Figment was featured in plenty of development materials, Eisner told Imagineers that he didn't like the cute purple dragon and to get rid of him. So out Figment went. The magnificent turntable had been troublesome, so to save on maintenance costs would just eliminate it. Then it was discovered that the original area of ImageWorks was not up to code, and considering how tight funding already was, it would be cost-prohibitive to spend the money to get the second floor to where it needed to be, so it was abandoned.
I would love to ask an Imagineer that worked on JIYI what happened (there's one that is listing his WDI materials on eBay that has caused quite a stir in the Figment thread) - an iconic and beloved attraction was hacked down into a cheap carnival ride. Maybe if WDI had had the funding that they needed, the attraction could have been better, but ultimately they relied on simple illusions and insulted their audience. Even merchandising was unhappy because Figment outsold Mickey at the park, and for some reason he was almost completely eradicated (save for a small cameo.) The outrage was swift, and JIIwF came just a few years later to placate guests. Sadly this temporary solution has lasted at Imagination longer than the original attraction. The sting lasts and lasts.
As they say, a picture is worth 1,000 words. Imagination went from this:
...to this:
...to this:
The Millennium Celebration was coming up and execs needed some new things to advertise to drive attendance. The trouble was that the poor opening of Euro Disney, the tragic death of Frank Wells, and several other troubles had had a profound effect on Eisner's attitude in handling things within Disney and the parks. The goal was to spend as little money as possible. But hey, some attractions had sponsors with contracts, and if they wanted to keep those contracts, they would have to pay. JII was in need of a refurb (various effects were troublesome and needed fixing.)
Not everyone working for the mouse really appreciated what they had - it's said that various acts of sabotage occurred at some attractions. This was done for HIStA's queue with it's placement to trick guests to not visit JII and lower the ride count. Disney then allegedly took this information back to Kodak to put pressure on them to put up the money for a major overhaul. WDI wowed the Kodak reps with lights and sounds for a pitch for the new attraction. Unfortunately, the world was going digital and Kodak wasn't getting with the times, so they financially couldn't spend much. This should have been the moment where someone said, "This isn't enough funding to do what we want to do. Let's just give Imagination a good refurbishment, plus up the special effects etc." Unfortunately Imagineers were hungry to make a name for themselves and full of hubris.
Clearly guests loved HIStA, so WDI decided to extend that theming in the ride's makeover and brought Eric Idle back to reprise his role. During the process of redoing the attraction, although Figment was featured in plenty of development materials, Eisner told Imagineers that he didn't like the cute purple dragon and to get rid of him. So out Figment went. The magnificent turntable had been troublesome, so to save on maintenance costs would just eliminate it. Then it was discovered that the original area of ImageWorks was not up to code, and considering how tight funding already was, it would be cost-prohibitive to spend the money to get the second floor to where it needed to be, so it was abandoned.
I would love to ask an Imagineer that worked on JIYI what happened (there's one that is listing his WDI materials on eBay that has caused quite a stir in the Figment thread) - an iconic and beloved attraction was hacked down into a cheap carnival ride. Maybe if WDI had had the funding that they needed, the attraction could have been better, but ultimately they relied on simple illusions and insulted their audience. Even merchandising was unhappy because Figment outsold Mickey at the park, and for some reason he was almost completely eradicated (save for a small cameo.) The outrage was swift, and JIIwF came just a few years later to placate guests. Sadly this temporary solution has lasted at Imagination longer than the original attraction. The sting lasts and lasts.
As they say, a picture is worth 1,000 words. Imagination went from this:
...to this:
...to this:
Brer Panther
Well-Known Member
At least Journey Into Imagination With Figment is an improvement over Journey Into YOUR Imagination.
FigmentFan82
Well-Known Member
You know what made the conversion from the OG Imagination into the YOUR version so frustrating, was that we didn't have the level of instant access to information the way we do now. The original was one of my favorites and when I returned many years later as a teenager I was so excited to ride it again (it had been a while). Riding the changed version was like a fever dream because up to that point it had not occurred to me that they would change rides. It was like being gaslit by Disney. I swear it was different last time I was here! (That and 20,000 Lgs going away)
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