Worst mistake in Epcot history

[Cmdr_Crimson]

This too.

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Was already mentioned...a page back..

Worst mistake in Epcot history

As someone lucky enough to experience Epcot in the 80’s, there’s not enough time left in the day to list all the mistakes of the last 2 decades or so.

forums.wdwmagic.com

 

[TwilightZone]

You know what made the conversion from the OG Imagination into the YOUR version so frustrating, was that we didn't have the level of instant access to information the way we do now. The original was one of my favorites and when I returned many years later as a teenager I was so excited to ride it again (it had been a while). Riding the changed version was like a fever dream because up to that point it had not occurred to me that they would change rides. It was like being gaslit by Disney. I swear it was different last time I was here! (That and 20,000 Lgs going away)

Not to mention the redo was barely advertised by Disney. I think I have only seen it advertised twice during my old disney video deep dives.

 

[Mesa Azul]

I loved Horizons, but by the mid 90's it was clear this wasn't "a plausible future we would see in out lifetimes". People really believed that original slogan of "The 21st Century begins October 1982" and if you look at at the "futuristic films" of the early 80's, with flying cars and whatnot, we really believe the year 2000 would be like living in an 80's Sci-Fi movie... Conan O'Brien used to do that bit on his first NBC show "In the Year 2000", kid of making fun of those kinds of beliefs ...but Horizons "became" a disappointment because the future it was predicting was starting to seem more like "fantasy" than "reality", same thing with Sea Base Alpha, some day the new Space restaurant will probably be just as dated...

Yeah, but... Horizons was supposed to be Century 3, so that would put it closer to 2100 than 2000. None of that was supposed to be happening in our lifetimes, but the building blocks to get there were to be made by the kids that grew up with the ride. I think that's been the big problem with a lot of the "future" aspect of Future World (and Science Fiction in general) is that a lot of people think it's supposed to be predicting the future, when what it is really saying is this is what could be if we do this thing, or if we don't do something, or etc, etc. Horizons was about just that: Working together to get to the next Horizon... and the next... and the next. I know I'm horribly biased, but I think that message still works, regardless of the tech.

 

[UNCgolf]

Yeah, but... Horizons was supposed to be Century 3, so that would put it closer to 2100 than 2000. None of that was supposed to be happening in our lifetimes, but the building blocks to get there were to be made by the kids that grew up with the ride. I think that's been the big problem with a lot of the "future" aspect of Future World (and Science Fiction in general) is that a lot of people think it's supposed to be predicting the future, when what it is really saying is this is what could be if we do this thing, or if we don't do something, or etc, etc. Horizons was about just that: Working together to get to the next Horizon... and the next... and the next. I know I'm horribly biased, but I think that message still works, regardless of the tech.

I think the bigger issue with Horizons is that the future living section was exceptionally 1980s in look.

Don't get me wrong -- I absolutely loved it, and I would love to ride it right now with that same 1980s future look because I really like that vision of the future. That was definitely my favorite part of the ride. But it was essentially retrofuturism by the time the ride closed; it would be downright archaic today. That whole section of the ride would have needed a full redesign.

Of course, that's absolutely what they should have done. Shut it down for 6 months or however long it took to update those scenes (and the film, I suppose), and then reopen it.

 

[Mesa Azul]

I think the bigger issue with Horizons is that the future living section was exceptionally 1980s in look.

Don't get me wrong -- I absolutely loved it, and I would love to ride it right now with that same 1980s future look because I really like it. That was definitely my favorite part of the ride. But it was essentially retrofuturism by the time the ride closed; it would be downright archaic today. That whole section of the ride would have needed a full redesign.

Of course, that's absolutely what they should have done. Shut it down for 6 months or however long it took to update those scenes (and the film, I suppose), and then reopen it.

There was a proposal for a Horizons replacement / update that seemed to do just that. It was going to keep most of the looking back scenes, and update it to be more current (would have been funny to see Nova Cite, Mesa Verde, the Sea Castle, and Brava all represented in one scene as a looking back...) and then was going to go into space flight and into a larger space themed pavilion upstairs. There was also going to be a simulator/movie ride that I'm guessing would have used the Omnisphere. All and all, it sounded like a great update, but that'd be pretty old in the tooth by now, too.

I too would love to ride Horizons one more time with all of that 80s pragmatism, but as I said earlier in this thread... I think that was really only going to be appealing to a nerdy kid from the 80s, so I doubt there would be tons that would share in our enthusiasm

I'd honestly be happy if I knew the building was still there, even if it was turned into Buzz's space launch adventure. Losing the pavilion hurts just because of what it meant to me as a kid... In the end, though, I'm happy enough people loved the ride to upload and share their home videos with us all. It's not the same, but it is sure nice to take a 480p trip through the future of the 80s once in a while.

 

[HauntedPirate]

There was a proposal for a Horizons replacement / update that seemed to do just that. It was going to keep most of the looking back scenes, and update it to be more current (would have been funny to see Nova Cite, Mesa Verde, the Sea Castle, and Brava all represented in one scene as a looking back...) and then was going to go into space flight and into a larger space themed pavilion upstairs. There was also going to be a simulator/movie ride that I'm guessing would have used the Omnisphere. All and all, it sounded like a great update, but that'd be pretty old in the tooth by now, too.

I too would love to ride Horizons one more time with all of that 80s pragmatism, but as I said earlier in this thread... I think that was really only going to be appealing to a nerdy kid from the 80s, so I doubt there would be tons that would share in our enthusiasm

I'd honestly be happy if I knew the building was still there, even if it was turned into Buzz's space launch adventure. Losing the pavilion hurts just because of what it meant to me as a kid... In the end, though, I'm happy enough people loved the ride to upload and share their home videos with us all. It's not the same, but it is sure nice to take a 480p trip through the future of the 80s once in a while.

I know a few people who may share that enthusiasm. Sadly, all that we are left with are videos and memories. And souvenirs/documents.

 

[TikibirdLand]

I know a few people who may share that enthusiasm. Sadly, all that we are left with are videos and memories. And souvenirs/documents.

Like they say, you can never go home again. Thanks that we can play Martin's videos and remember what we missed.

 

[Sir_Cliff]

Conan O'Brien used to do that bit on his first NBC show "In the Year 2000", kid of making fun of those kinds of beliefs ...but Horizons "became" a disappointment because the future it was predicting was starting to seem more like "fantasy" than "reality", same thing with Sea Base Alpha, some day the new Space restaurant will probably be just as dated...

You have just given me the most delightful image of an "In The Year 2000" revamp for Horizons with each scene being introduced with the trademark "In the year two thousand, in the year two thousaaaaand..."!

 

[WDWFREAK53]

For me it was when Mickey and the gang showed up.
I personally loved Figment and as a kid wished they had a "house character" for all of the Future World pavilions.

If I have to go with the removal of an attraction, it would hands down be JII.

 

[TwilightZone]

"house character" for all of the Future World pavilions.

To be fair a couple of them did but they're not as beloved as Figment for one reason or another.
They are:
SMRT-1 in Communicore
The Kitchen Kaberet gang in The Land
Buzzy in Wonders of Life

The Seas was close to getting one with a Dreamfinder expy and the rest are kind of unofficial (Sea Serpent in World of Motion and the dinos of Energy)

 

[tl77]

Yeah, but... Horizons was supposed to be Century 3, so that would put it closer to 2100 than 2000. None of that was supposed to be happening in our lifetimes, but the building blocks to get there were to be made by the kids that grew up with the ride. I think that's been the big problem with a lot of the "future" aspect of Future World (and Science Fiction in general) is that a lot of people think it's supposed to be predicting the future, when what it is really saying is this is what could be if we do this thing, or if we don't do something, or etc, etc. Horizons was about just that: Working together to get to the next Horizon... and the next... and the next. I know I'm horribly biased, but I think that message still works, regardless of the tech.

Umm? No! Epcot was to be as a kind of permanent World's Fair, the idea was THAT THIS STUFF YOU SEE HERE WILL BE HAPPENING SOON IN THE REAL WORLD! ...Everything in Horizons was some late 70's, prototype technology from General Electric, as was the Carousel of Progress, and the old RCA Home of Future Living at the exit of Space Mountain, which featured RCA's Select-a-Vision "Home Theater" Disc players ...which were on the market a few years after Space Mountain opened in 1975, but those RCA disc players got killed by VHS video tapes and VCR ...and there was no way you could ever touch those discs like the AA girl in the ride, those things got scratched easily and skipped like crazy from then on

Epcot sponsors had 15 year contracts, and when that ran out, they could renew the contract/pavilion or find a new sponsor... So? General Motors decided they wanted to turn World of Motion into something that focused more on automobiles and you got Test Track, Kodak wanted The Imagination pavilion to be they mess it is now.... and GE didn't want to continue with Epcot, so they left... I agree that the "concept of showing people life in the future" is a timeless concept, but GE's "late 70's vision of the future" need some serious updating by the end of the 20th century

 

[Bocabear]

and 40 years later, it's the same last scene in Space Mountain... The thing about Horizon's was it showed us how people viewed the future in the past, and then glimpsed the future from the hopeful vision of the 1980s...But none of that technology has become a reality...we do not have undersea colonies, colonies in space, desert reclamation farms or the gleaming futuristic cities shown...
Nowadays we have no visions of the future that are not destruction and ruin...I would love to see Disney's optimistic vision of the future again...It gave us something to hope for and something to dream about....
Are hope and aspiration dated concepts?

 

[Mac Tonight]

and 40 years later, it's the same last scene in Space Mountain... The thing about Horizon's was it showed us how people viewed the future in the past, and then glimpsed the future from the hopeful vision of the 1980s...But none of that technology has become a reality...we do not have undersea colonies, colonies in space, desert reclamation farms or the gleaming futuristic cities shown...
Nowadays we have no visions of the future that are not destruction and ruin...I would love to see Disney's optimistic vision of the future again...It gave us something to hope for and something to dream about....
Are hope and aspiration dated concepts?

No, they're just not Disney IPs.

 

[HauntedPirate]

Umm? No! Epcot was to be as a kind of permanent World's Fair, the idea was THAT THIS STUFF YOU SEE HERE WILL BE HAPPENING SOON IN THE REAL WORLD! ...Everything in Horizons was some late 70's, prototype technology from General Electric, as was the Carousel of Progress, and the old RCA Home of Future Living at the exit of Space Mountain, which featured RCA's Select-a-Vision "Home Theater" Disc players ...which were on the market a few years after Space Mountain opened in 1975, but those RCA disc players got killed by VHS video tapes and VCR ...and there was no way you could ever touch those discs like the AA girl in the ride, those things got scratched easily and skipped like crazy from then on

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Epcot sponsors had 15 year contracts, and when that ran out, they could renew the contract/pavilion or find a new sponsor... So? General Motors decided they wanted to turn World of Motion into something that focused more on automobiles and you got Test Track, Kodak wanted The Imagination pavilion to be they mess it is now.... and GE didn't want to continue with Epcot, so they left... I agree that the "concept of showing people life in the future" is a timeless concept, but GE's "late 70's vision of the future" need some serious updating by the end of the 20th century

How is living in an undersea city going?

 

[TwilightZone]

Horizons I feel tried to predict too much and ended up feeling unrealistic as a result. Some stuff was feasible, such as the zoom meeting ending, but others were too far fetched for even an optimistic look at the future. The undersea living scene specifically is an outlier in the transiton of the ride from being kinda cool on how much of it is still plausible to unrealistic and cartoony.
Still an optimistic idea of future living is something that could be cool to still have, but I am not sure if it would work without scaling it down heavily to become easy to update.

 

[Mesa Azul]

I wish we'd gotten an updated attraction. I'd love to see a version with all four of the Horizons original future windows concepts shown as a looking back scene as the new narrators laugh about how wrong those dreamers got it. That's basically what the first half of the ride was, after all, and continuing to add to that with small vignettes to wink and nod at how even our modern views of the future evolve, change, turn out to be something completely different, would have been a fun update as the ride evolved. Could you imagine if Horizons was still around, and every decade or so they completely changed the future windows while making a window of the older attraction as a looking back? Would definitely keep it interesting even for us old farts that rode the thing decade after decade. Ah well.

 

[Bocabear]

Future Windows? Are you referring to the destination choice windows?

 

[montyz81]

Where to begin.

Epcot95? Seems a good starting point.

 

[sedati]

Financing plan followed by layout.

 

[montyz81]

I have said it before and I will say it again. The original rides could have been kept around mostly with a little bit of IP infusion. They could have added thrill rides to WS while keeping Future World about edutainment. The gotg ride couldexist without the marvel overlay or at least use marvel characters on that ride to educate about how we use energy. But alas, the future of Epcot will be about grabbing money instead of inspiring young minds