working out for Disney

Figgy1

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
I love my kids I really do but one of them spilled clear body wash in their bathroom. Long story short my shoulder isn't dislocated and nothing is broken except my ego. I'm on the mend and trying to get my steps in again but rain and falling leaves:mad: Seeing I banged up my entire side I'm going to putter in my steps the best I can but nothing else until at least the weekend. I'm much better than I was and am healing more quickly than expected. Hoping everybody else is doing better than I am
 

celluloid

Well-Known Member
I want to spread what works for me what kept me slow and steady losing lbs for five months. (About a pound to two and a half a week)
Calorie counting for 2,200 or less a day with 30 min of exercise at the gym. Usually 20 min on elyptical or stair machine or 30 min on a weight circuit. I am posting this selfishly as well.

Intermittent fasting was huge as I could eat at 12 and be done eating at 5 or 6 at the latest. 400 to 500 calorie lunch so I could pig out even after home from work and rarely go over. It retrained my meal size expectation. I need to do this again.
(sorry for typos. Phone is wonky)
 
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Songbird76

Well-Known Member
I think some of it is also tied to what you consider bad behavior. I've had many of these discussions with friends over the years and so many revert to an antiquated notion that good childhood behavior strictly equates to a quiet kid that always does what they're told without question. I'm not saying those aren't good kids, but it leaves out a wide array of personalities that aren't necessarily bad, but may require different approaches. They may annoy or infuriate the adult that believes that anything less than silence and immediate compliance is bad, but it's unrealistic when you consider depth of personality and how adults in corporate America are encouraged to embrace all kinds of personality types and question all sorts of things. K is an extrovert and she's never been shy about telling people what she thinks and arguing her side. We've always said she was a born litigator, if she doesn't wind up in a tv drama. I have a couple of friends who view this as bad intolerable behavior. They questioned why I hadn't resorted to more extreme physical punishment, but also admitted they probably would have beaten her to a pulp years ago for what they see as unacceptable insubordination. They also would have made the 6 o'clock news and spent the rest of their lives in prison. As expected, the 5 year old that challenged us at every turn is now the teenage version. I also look back to my high school years and don't want to hold her back if she wants to start going to parties. I'd say that 60-70% of our high school attended parties, drank, smoked, etc. and most still had good grades, participated in activities, had all kinds of honors, and went on to good colleges and careers. I think some of it also even helped them when it came to college and young adulthood in the corporate work world. She hasn't really asked to go to any parties...yet...but I'm sure it will happen. She's extremely social and like me, I know she needs some of that extra human connection. Like some of the deadbeat examples in my life when I was a teen (mine were friends of friends and people on the fringe of our group), I hope she uses her own real life examples (we've got a few in the family) to help guide her choices of what she doesn't want to be. She has big goals, and she's already seeing how little it takes to hurt some of those chances, so I think that alone is a good motivator. We just need to learn better ways to deal with our little litigator, because it's exhausting arguing over stupid stuff. Thankfully, the last two big blowups also came with a dose of reality that I let quietly unfold. She chewed me out for insisting her hoco dress cost more than she said it did, going as far as to say I was ripped off and I let it happen. Then she found it on the website and realized she was wrong. Even better...yesterday, she didn't want to attend this National Honor Society meeting...said her friends said everything from it being canceled to it not being for kids to nobody goes to the meeting. After a good 40 minutes of text fighting during breaks in choir rehearsal, I got her to the meeting...which obviously wasn't canceled, it had over 50 people in attendance, and about 85% of the adults also had their nominated high school kid with them. That in itself was one great I told you so to end the fight. In reality, I could have gone to the meeting without her and let her go for poke with her friend after choir, but they covered a lot of things to prove to her that she is qualified.
If I thought contrariness made a bad kid, my son would be the posterchild. He was so difficult when he was little. But that was just overstimulation and not being able to process. I'll admit I didn't always handle it well, but I tried really hard to always be calm. Like...I remember one instance where he wanted to play on a particular piece of playground equipment after school when I picked them up. I was happy to wait for a while, but there was already a little girl playing on it and she was NOT leaving any time soon and when we asked if he could have a turn, she said no. She didn't have a parent with her to tell her it was someone else's turn, and I couldn't really just physically remove her, so I told A that I was sorry, we were going to have to play another time. He screamed and cried and didn't want to go home. I always had the rule that whenever we crossed a street, the KIDS had to tell me when it was safe to cross. I wanted them to learn to look both ways and I didn't want them to rely on my judgement. If they were wrong, naturally I'd ask if they were sure that car was far enough away, or what about that person on the bike, but initially, it was their job to do the looking and not just run into the street assuming mom would pull them to safety if there was a car. So we got to a crossing and I asked if it was safe and A refused to look, so we stood there, I kid you not, for 45 minutes, waiting for him to calm down and look to see if it was safe, and he screamed the whole time. Several kids came by and asked if he was ok, and I said he was fine, just very angry with me, so we were waiting for him to calm down. My husband would just get furious and start screaming at him and doling out punishments. I didn't want to do that. He had every right to be upset...he wanted to play, and he should have gotten a turn. In a perfect world, everyone would share and take turns, but I couldn't MAKE the little girl be fair. She was there first, and she wasn't my kid to discipline. So his anger was totally warranted and I just had to let him express it. But in hindsight, I wish I had had the skills to talk to him and help him process it. He was only 4...those emotions are hard for some adults to manage...it wasn't fair to expect a 4 year old to do it But I didn't consider it "bad behavior". And everyone has bad days where they take their anger out on other people, or aren't very fun to be around, etc....we can't have higher expectations of kids than we have of ourselves.

I guess my definition of bad behavior is behavior that is destructive in some way....things like stealing, setting fires, bullying, or doing things that will damage their futures in some way. Every kid has irresponsible moments, and it's frustrating, but it's not "bad" per se. So the kid stays up too late one night and has some trouble the next morning with waking up, etc....it happens. It's when it's a constant pattern that you need to worry about it. I heard someone say once, and it really stuck with me, was "I'm not raising kids. I'm raising adults. I have to teach them how to be adults." At some point, you have to turn them loose, so you need to make sure you give them the tools they need when you aren't in charge. Teach them how to have good judgement, teach them consequences, teach them to have integrity, what it means to BE a friend, not just HAVE friends, teach them to think for themsleves, etc.

That was the problem I had with my mom. She didn't teach me to make decisions because she didn't want me to make them....she wanted to make them for me. I was never allowed to use my own judgement in dealing with things. When I was in band in 6th grade, we shared stands, so we shared books. At the end of band, the girl I was sharing with and I accidentally mixed up our folders, so I had hers and she had mine. Oops...it happens. It was the exact same book, so I could practice using her book just as easily as with my own. I figured we'd just swap back the next time we had band. No biggie. Mom made a HUGE deal out of how irresponsible it was and I needed to call the girl RIGHT AWAY and make sure she brought the folder the next day. It couldn't wait until we had band 2 days later. It had to be done right now!! So I reluctantly called the girl....I was really embarrassed. Mom was yelling at me and had me convinced I had done this terrible thing and it was like a punishment to have to call this girl and apologize, etc. It was meant to shame me and make sure I never made such a mistake again. This girl was the gold star standard in our class....always the top grade, chosen for every special program, had to go up a grade for reading, was really good in music....she was just good at everything and her whole family was known for being gifted. I called her and she said "Oh....I was just going to bring it next time we had band and swap back." and I had to explain that my mother was furious and I had to switch back tomorrow or I was in trouble. It was humiliating. There was absolutely no reason why my way (and apparently hers as well) was bad or wrong. It would have worked just as well, and would have been more convenient to not have extra things to carry when we didn't have band. I'd say my way was actually better than my mom's, but she was insistent that her way was the only right way. I wasn't allowed to decide how to handle things in my life. I am really uncertain with decisions now because I don't ever want to make anyone mad by choosing something they wouldn't choose. Well, I am better about that now, I guess, but it took a while to get used to making my own decisions and being ok with not making everyone else happy all the time. My mom even wrote me a 14 page letter when I was in college, detailing all the ways I was a disappointment to her because I wasn't obeying her anymore, and why did I wait until I was 19 to start rebelling, she had thought she was so lucky that I skipped over that stage, but now here I was in college and she felt like she no longer had control over me. And I was embarrassing her with my poor behavior, making her look bad that she didn't have control over me. And she wrote a 9 page letter to my friend, asking her to "fix" me and get me to be obedient again. I lived 200 miles away from her, and was paying my own expenses and she was convinced she still had authority over me and I was obligated to follow her rules. I'm sure she would have defined my behavior as "bad". I just considered it "independent". She even reminded me before going into the voting booth who I was supposed to vote for. Honestly though, I think it's made me a better parent, because I don't want to be anything like that. I want my kids to think for themselves, and I want them to use their own judgement, not rely on mine...I'm not perfect, and they are the ones who have to live with the consequences...they should earn those consequences themselves, not have them thrust on them by me. I'll advise them, but in the end, they have to make the choices themselves and live with whatever happens as a result.
 

Songbird76

Well-Known Member
My MIL and FIL divorced when my husband was really young. He was raised in what sounds like a very strict and abusive household, so naturally, that's a lot of how he treated his own kids. I remember visiting him when K was about 2 (like just turned 2) and he tried to throw her into a cold shower to shut up one of her tantrums. He was very successful in business and had a number of good friends for partying and golf, but the rest of his relationships told a different story. He was married 5 times, but thankfully he realized early on that he didn't want any more kids...so my husband and BIL are his only ones. He was so different from my MIL, to the point that I don't see how they'd ever be together for long.

That's so awful with all of the favoritism when you were growing up. You were wrong and punished even when you weren't guilty. Yes, there are times where we might get upset with one kid for not telling us about something the other did, but if S hit a car or broke a projector screen...she'd be the one getting the real punishment. That punishment will also likely come in the form of extra chores around the house and loss of certain privileges. We do have to be really careful because S is the much easier personality, which sometimes leads to us being a bit too soft on her.

My husband also tried to take those negatives and make them positives. I think it's made him a better husband and father. The girls also look to my family for inspiration as well. My parents are still married...going on 50 years, my brother and I fought a lot as kids...but we both did well in school and have good jobs, and while we live several states away...we talk to my parents and see them more often (even if it's via FaceTime) than we see my MIL (and she just lives on the other side of town). We used to live about 20 minutes from my MIL and we still barely saw her. She made very little effort to see our kids, and then she started putting the trashy step kids' kids needs first...which is dangerous when you serve them PB&J next to your biological granddaughter that is deathly allergic to peanuts. And that's just the tip of the iceberg with her proving she can't be trusted. At the end of the day, I think we all have our skeletons and wounds we carry...and we just do our best.
Yeah, my in-laws are a better influence as far as that goes. They are still happily married...not sure how long, but probably around 50 years. They made some mistakes, but overall they were much more realistic in their parenting. My mom had high expectations and really harsh punishments for small infractions, or sometimes things that weren't even infractions, but she decided they were wrong. Like, she wanted to make me quit speech and debate because I got an A- in US History and she felt that was too low, and speech must be distracting me. I got her to wait and let me try to bring it up before giving up my activities, but I mean really...is an A- so bad that it warrants a punishment? And she never apologized for making a mistake....like when she got so mad about the spelling of "Saterday", she never apologized for calling me out for it and yelling at me when I wasn't the one who had done it. My FIL once spanked my husband for something and found out later that it was my BIL who had actually done it and he went and sat down with my husband and apologized. He knew he was in the wrong and made amends. My mom didn't believe in admitting to kids that she made mistakes. She told me that mom's don't make mistakes. They do what they think is right, and the kid might not agree, but it's the mom's decision to make. She said kids had to believe their moms are perfect or they won't respect them. I completely and totally disagree with that. I really have very little respect for her parenting style. I'd have a LOT more respect if she had been fair, and had modeled behavior like humility, admitting when you make a mistake, apologizing for hurting people, etc. Respect is earned through acting with integrity, and part of integrity is being honest and fair, and making amends for mistakes. My mom didn't do that. She lacked integrity and insight....I don't have respect for that. But my in-laws are really good about that. I've learned a lot about bad parenting from my parents, and a lot about good parenting from my in-laws.
 

Songbird76

Well-Known Member
So I slacked big time after going to King's Island and Cedar Point this summer as a tangible reward. I met my goal and fit onto Millennium Force and Top Thrill Dragster as I knew those would be the ultimate fit on coaster goals. I slacked until late September and still fit into everything like I had not since middle school at Universal.

I am still slacking a bit and it is a miracle that I only gained 20 pounds back. But a bad slippery slope. Time to get busy again to get to my 200 lbs goal from currently 270. If I can get to 200lbs or less. I am going to Tokyo. Back to every day work out and calorie counting.
I've slacked too in the last year. I had lost a few pounds by the end of last year, but gained some of it back this year. Not all of it, but it's been hard. It's good that you have a goal and a reward to look forward to for motivation. I've been really unmotivated this year because there doesn't seem to be much to look forward to until Covid goes away. How did you reach that first goal? Do you go to a gym, or do you work out at home, walk, etc?

Edit: I see you answered that in a different post. Ignore me. 😂 I should have looked first.
 
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Songbird76

Well-Known Member
I love my kids I really do but one of them spilled clear body wash in their bathroom. Long story short my shoulder isn't dislocated and nothing is broken except my ego. I'm on the mend and trying to get my steps in again but rain and falling leaves:mad: Seeing I banged up my entire side I'm going to putter in my steps the best I can but nothing else until at least the weekend. I'm much better than I was and am healing more quickly than expected. Hoping everybody else is doing better than I am
I was in quarantine for several days, so I didn't get my steps in those days, and then Monday was rainy. But I went back to work last night, so I got my steps in there, and E and I are going for a walk today to do her assignment for her art and culture requirement. She has to look at art or architecture in her neighborhood and write about what her favorite is and what is her least favorite and why, etc. It's nice weather, so we're going to make use of it.
 

HouCuseChickie

Well-Known Member
Thank you. This is my favorite thread on the entire site for the positivity! I did not meant to interject a conversation. It makes me happy to see realistic goals and real people working hard. I did it once and once in the groove, it was not that hard. Gaining some of it back was not hard to do either, but losing it again will not be so there is that!

I believe that the goal reward was the only reason it really worked. I wanted coasters again. Now I need to keep enjoying the other benefits.

I really need to muster up some inspiration from this. Gaining it back comes waaaaay too easily and of course we're hitting that time of year with so much temptation. I think having a strong enough goal is definitely a key factor.
 

celluloid

Well-Known Member
I've slacked too in the last year. I had lost a few pounds by the end of last year, but gained some of it back this year. Not all of it, but it's been hard. It's good that you have a goal and a reward to look forward to for motivation. I've been really unmotivated this year because there doesn't seem to be much to look forward to until Covid goes away. How did you reach that first goal? Do you go to a gym, or do you work out at home, walk, etc?

Edit: I see you answered that in a different post. Ignore me. 😂 I should have looked first.

I really need to muster up some inspiration from this. Gaining it back comes waaaaay too easily and of course we're hitting that time of year with so much temptation. I think having a strong enough goal is definitely a key factor.

Selfishly, I posted here to muster up my own motivation again. Thanks everyone.
 

HouCuseChickie

Well-Known Member
If I thought contrariness made a bad kid, my son would be the posterchild. He was so difficult when he was little. But that was just overstimulation and not being able to process. I'll admit I didn't always handle it well, but I tried really hard to always be calm. Like...I remember one instance where he wanted to play on a particular piece of playground equipment after school when I picked them up. I was happy to wait for a while, but there was already a little girl playing on it and she was NOT leaving any time soon and when we asked if he could have a turn, she said no. She didn't have a parent with her to tell her it was someone else's turn, and I couldn't really just physically remove her, so I told A that I was sorry, we were going to have to play another time. He screamed and cried and didn't want to go home. I always had the rule that whenever we crossed a street, the KIDS had to tell me when it was safe to cross. I wanted them to learn to look both ways and I didn't want them to rely on my judgement. If they were wrong, naturally I'd ask if they were sure that car was far enough away, or what about that person on the bike, but initially, it was their job to do the looking and not just run into the street assuming mom would pull them to safety if there was a car. So we got to a crossing and I asked if it was safe and A refused to look, so we stood there, I kid you not, for 45 minutes, waiting for him to calm down and look to see if it was safe, and he screamed the whole time. Several kids came by and asked if he was ok, and I said he was fine, just very angry with me, so we were waiting for him to calm down. My husband would just get furious and start screaming at him and doling out punishments. I didn't want to do that. He had every right to be upset...he wanted to play, and he should have gotten a turn. In a perfect world, everyone would share and take turns, but I couldn't MAKE the little girl be fair. She was there first, and she wasn't my kid to discipline. So his anger was totally warranted and I just had to let him express it. But in hindsight, I wish I had had the skills to talk to him and help him process it. He was only 4...those emotions are hard for some adults to manage...it wasn't fair to expect a 4 year old to do it But I didn't consider it "bad behavior". And everyone has bad days where they take their anger out on other people, or aren't very fun to be around, etc....we can't have higher expectations of kids than we have of ourselves.

I guess my definition of bad behavior is behavior that is destructive in some way....things like stealing, setting fires, bullying, or doing things that will damage their futures in some way. Every kid has irresponsible moments, and it's frustrating, but it's not "bad" per se. So the kid stays up too late one night and has some trouble the next morning with waking up, etc....it happens. It's when it's a constant pattern that you need to worry about it. I heard someone say once, and it really stuck with me, was "I'm not raising kids. I'm raising adults. I have to teach them how to be adults." At some point, you have to turn them loose, so you need to make sure you give them the tools they need when you aren't in charge. Teach them how to have good judgement, teach them consequences, teach them to have integrity, what it means to BE a friend, not just HAVE friends, teach them to think for themsleves, etc.

That was the problem I had with my mom. She didn't teach me to make decisions because she didn't want me to make them....she wanted to make them for me. I was never allowed to use my own judgement in dealing with things. When I was in band in 6th grade, we shared stands, so we shared books. At the end of band, the girl I was sharing with and I accidentally mixed up our folders, so I had hers and she had mine. Oops...it happens. It was the exact same book, so I could practice using her book just as easily as with my own. I figured we'd just swap back the next time we had band. No biggie. Mom made a HUGE deal out of how irresponsible it was and I needed to call the girl RIGHT AWAY and make sure she brought the folder the next day. It couldn't wait until we had band 2 days later. It had to be done right now!! So I reluctantly called the girl....I was really embarrassed. Mom was yelling at me and had me convinced I had done this terrible thing and it was like a punishment to have to call this girl and apologize, etc. It was meant to shame me and make sure I never made such a mistake again. This girl was the gold star standard in our class....always the top grade, chosen for every special program, had to go up a grade for reading, was really good in music....she was just good at everything and her whole family was known for being gifted. I called her and she said "Oh....I was just going to bring it next time we had band and swap back." and I had to explain that my mother was furious and I had to switch back tomorrow or I was in trouble. It was humiliating. There was absolutely no reason why my way (and apparently hers as well) was bad or wrong. It would have worked just as well, and would have been more convenient to not have extra things to carry when we didn't have band. I'd say my way was actually better than my mom's, but she was insistent that her way was the only right way. I wasn't allowed to decide how to handle things in my life. I am really uncertain with decisions now because I don't ever want to make anyone mad by choosing something they wouldn't choose. Well, I am better about that now, I guess, but it took a while to get used to making my own decisions and being ok with not making everyone else happy all the time. My mom even wrote me a 14 page letter when I was in college, detailing all the ways I was a disappointment to her because I wasn't obeying her anymore, and why did I wait until I was 19 to start rebelling, she had thought she was so lucky that I skipped over that stage, but now here I was in college and she felt like she no longer had control over me. And I was embarrassing her with my poor behavior, making her look bad that she didn't have control over me. And she wrote a 9 page letter to my friend, asking her to "fix" me and get me to be obedient again. I lived 200 miles away from her, and was paying my own expenses and she was convinced she still had authority over me and I was obligated to follow her rules. I'm sure she would have defined my behavior as "bad". I just considered it "independent". She even reminded me before going into the voting booth who I was supposed to vote for. Honestly though, I think it's made me a better parent, because I don't want to be anything like that. I want my kids to think for themselves, and I want them to use their own judgement, not rely on mine...I'm not perfect, and they are the ones who have to live with the consequences...they should earn those consequences themselves, not have them thrust on them by me. I'll advise them, but in the end, they have to make the choices themselves and live with whatever happens as a result.

Ultimately, I think we all have our challenges. I know it's different with autism, but man...are there days. I love that way of teaching them to cross the street. I have never heard this before, but know I wish I could go back to 2012 and teach mine this way. I also cannot begin to express how much the whole "having the skills to talk" to the kids to help them process certain points of anger and frustration resonates with me. I know it's a bit different, but some of our early battles with K were epic and nothing I could say ever made it better, so it always quickly escalated into anger. I have two that always stand out in my head...her just turned two epic 45 minute meltdown at the zoo where nothing made her happy and strangers thought she needed cheese or to spend some time with them to settle down...and the walk home from the pool, where I had to carry her out- carry her home for .25 miles- kicking and screaming stranger danger and that I'm abducting her.

I would agree on that definition of bad. I think I just have some friends with unrealistic expectations and I've spent a lot of motherhood being subtly shamed that my children don't behave like mini Stepford Wives. That's such a great statement and really appreciate the shift in perspective about raising adults. The friends with unrealistic expectations also didn't really allow their kids to experience and learn beyond classroom and religion. Everything was so restricted, there was never any development of trust, and they helicoptered everything. I was always so embarrassed for them when the kids were invited to catered events like Sweet 16s and Quince's just to have the moms insist as coming as a +1 so they could supervise. Hence why in adulthood, things are a mess. That whole giving them good tools is so critical. Hence why these friends' kids and their relationships with the parents are a mess in adulthood.

I'm so sorry your mom was like this to you. Yeah, swapping music shouldn't have equated to humiliation and torture like that. It happens and while it can be frustrating if you have different markings in your music, it's not the end of the world. I could see myself being bothered by something like that, but the conversation would have been more like...ugh, is there anything in yours that you have to have? No... OK, well get your book back from her the next time you see her. The part about things while you were in college reminds me of my one friend...one of the ones with Stepford Wife kids. The older kid went off to college, started finally living her life and when mom kept trying to control it, she shut her out upon graduation. I remember the mom trying to prohibit her from traveling and learning how to drive, and she shut that down. Now that the daughter is getting married, she's trying to extend an olive branch and the mom is going nuts because she's not being brought into the planning. Her younger one is even worse. He's more submissive and still allows them to control him. He now needs serious psychological treatment, is on regular suicide watch and all kinds of meds. Who knows if this is a nature vs. nurture thing, but it's hard not to look at how the mom tried to control their lives and restrict them from learning to be good adults. Not that they are bad people in adulthood, but it certainly hurt them.
 

HouCuseChickie

Well-Known Member
Yeah, my in-laws are a better influence as far as that goes. They are still happily married...not sure how long, but probably around 50 years. They made some mistakes, but overall they were much more realistic in their parenting. My mom had high expectations and really harsh punishments for small infractions, or sometimes things that weren't even infractions, but she decided they were wrong. Like, she wanted to make me quit speech and debate because I got an A- in US History and she felt that was too low, and speech must be distracting me. I got her to wait and let me try to bring it up before giving up my activities, but I mean really...is an A- so bad that it warrants a punishment? And she never apologized for making a mistake....like when she got so mad about the spelling of "Saterday", she never apologized for calling me out for it and yelling at me when I wasn't the one who had done it. My FIL once spanked my husband for something and found out later that it was my BIL who had actually done it and he went and sat down with my husband and apologized. He knew he was in the wrong and made amends. My mom didn't believe in admitting to kids that she made mistakes. She told me that mom's don't make mistakes. They do what they think is right, and the kid might not agree, but it's the mom's decision to make. She said kids had to believe their moms are perfect or they won't respect them. I completely and totally disagree with that. I really have very little respect for her parenting style. I'd have a LOT more respect if she had been fair, and had modeled behavior like humility, admitting when you make a mistake, apologizing for hurting people, etc. Respect is earned through acting with integrity, and part of integrity is being honest and fair, and making amends for mistakes. My mom didn't do that. She lacked integrity and insight....I don't have respect for that. But my in-laws are really good about that. I've learned a lot about bad parenting from my parents, and a lot about good parenting from my in-laws.

While I know your MIL made things difficult when you began living there, it does sound like your inlaws have had a better approach with things. I don't care whether it's a parent, a teacher, whatever...nobody is perfect. Claiming that it's the only way you'll get respect illustrates that person's fears. Fears they're doing it all wrong, fears that you'll figure out their flaws, etc. I think it's better to see that we're all flawed. Not only does it keep kids from being bogged down by unrealistic expectations, it could help them recognize when an authority figure is doing more harm than good. Our high school Valedictorian was a sweet girl, but her parents were utterly oppressive when it came to school and related expectations. By some point in our junior year, they decided she needed to do more with her singing to look better on paper. It's hard to know if she ever had any love for it because she was too afraid to ever have an opinion of her own. In one year, she managed to get enough training to make Region, All State and All East as an Alto II. While her natural voice seemed to be a bit higher, they aimed for a less competitive voice part that also enabled them to tie in more musicianship honors that she just wasn't getting in her normal Sop II spot. She got into Princeton and was such a basket case at some point freshman year that she ended up having a really serious breakdown. Like your mom's A- reaction, it's my understanding that she'd face brutally harsh punishment for anything less than perfection. All in all, nobody is ever a perfect parent, and while there are a lot of good ones out there (and not just the PTO and booster club presidents), there are some that cause irreparable damage to their kids.
 

Songbird76

Well-Known Member
Ultimately, I think we all have our challenges. I know it's different with autism, but man...are there days. I love that way of teaching them to cross the street. I have never heard this before, but know I wish I could go back to 2012 and teach mine this way. I also cannot begin to express how much the whole "having the skills to talk" to the kids to help them process certain points of anger and frustration resonates with me. I know it's a bit different, but some of our early battles with K were epic and nothing I could say ever made it better, so it always quickly escalated into anger. I have two that always stand out in my head...her just turned two epic 45 minute meltdown at the zoo where nothing made her happy and strangers thought she needed cheese or to spend some time with them to settle down...and the walk home from the pool, where I had to carry her out- carry her home for .25 miles- kicking and screaming stranger danger and that I'm abducting her.

I would agree on that definition of bad. I think I just have some friends with unrealistic expectations and I've spent a lot of motherhood being subtly shamed that my children don't behave like mini Stepford Wives. That's such a great statement and really appreciate the shift in perspective about raising adults. The friends with unrealistic expectations also didn't really allow their kids to experience and learn beyond classroom and religion. Everything was so restricted, there was never any development of trust, and they helicoptered everything. I was always so embarrassed for them when the kids were invited to catered events like Sweet 16s and Quince's just to have the moms insist as coming as a +1 so they could supervise. Hence why in adulthood, things are a mess. That whole giving them good tools is so critical. Hence why these friends' kids and their relationships with the parents are a mess in adulthood.

I'm so sorry your mom was like this to you. Yeah, swapping music shouldn't have equated to humiliation and torture like that. It happens and while it can be frustrating if you have different markings in your music, it's not the end of the world. I could see myself being bothered by something like that, but the conversation would have been more like...ugh, is there anything in yours that you have to have? No... OK, well get your book back from her the next time you see her. The part about things while you were in college reminds me of my one friend...one of the ones with Stepford Wife kids. The older kid went off to college, started finally living her life and when mom kept trying to control it, she shut her out upon graduation. I remember the mom trying to prohibit her from traveling and learning how to drive, and she shut that down. Now that the daughter is getting married, she's trying to extend an olive branch and the mom is going nuts because she's not being brought into the planning. Her younger one is even worse. He's more submissive and still allows them to control him. He now needs serious psychological treatment, is on regular suicide watch and all kinds of meds. Who knows if this is a nature vs. nurture thing, but it's hard not to look at how the mom tried to control their lives and restrict them from learning to be good adults. Not that they are bad people in adulthood, but it certainly hurt them.
Yeah, we didn't have the benefit of an autism diagnosis until A was 9, so we couldn't put it into perspective. I kept saying his behavior wasn't typical for his age...I didn't know ANY other kids who would cry like they were being tortured because mom walked up the stairs before dad. He had these routines from the time he was only a year old or so, that if we did anything differently, he would completely freak out. Like, the first time we went to swimming lessons, we got off the bus and I needed to cross the street, but I wasn't sure which one. I went one street too far and had to double back before crossing. The next time we went, I knew the way, so I just crossed immediately and he starts screaming, terrified, saying we were going the wrong way. I pointed to the rec center and said "No, look, there it is. This is the right way." He kept insisting we had to go back, cross the street, go to the other street and cross back like we did the first time. He refused to go further, even though we could see the rec center from where we were. I had to pick him up, kicking and screaming, and drag him there. The next week, he started crying as soon as we got off the bus and asked if we could PLEASE cross the other street first. So we did that every week. I asked him about it and he said it made him feel safer. My husband didn't believe there was anything going on because he was at work all day and wasn't witnessing these meltdowns. I got pretty good at dealing with them, and I learned to have a lot of patience with him. But because I did, my husband didn't really notice anything. He knew A had a lot of meltdowns, but I was good at dealing with them, so he figured it was just typical kid stuff and nothing to worry about, while I was completely frazzled having to deal with meltdowns all day every day. Now that we understand what was going on in his head, it makes it easier to deal with, and now my husband is a lot better with the wording and being able to get to the crux of the problem and figure out solutions.

I'm curious...did I understand that correctly that strangers wanted you to hand K over to them to walk around with them to calm her? That's kind of creepy.

I think my mom's definition of bad behavior was more like your friends'. It used to really embarass me that my mom would try to discipline other people's children. She would tap a kid on the shoulder at church and chew them out for being disruptive, because she thought the parents should have put a stop to their wiggling around or whatever. She spanked her friend's kid once when they were at our house....I was in college by that time, but there was a friend who was around my age and who didn't have parents anymore. I guess my mom was kind of like a parent to her in some ways. But she was married and had a little boy about 3 or 4 years old, and the boy had some issues. He talked, but it wasn't understandable....he didn't really pronounce consonants, so he called me "oo-uh". It was extremely difficult to understand him. When our mutual friend was in the hospital with pneumonia, my mom and I and this woman went to clean his house so when he got out of the hospital, he could just come home...it was Christmas vacation, so I was home from college. The woman brought her son, and he was 3 then, and while they were working on cleaning, I was kind of babysitting him. We were playing with the checkers board and he started throwing the pieces, so I told him we don't throw things, and he picked up the board and threw it at me. He just wasn't used to boundaries, and his mom really had no experience with kids before she had him and she was really young. He just hadn't been taught how to behave really. Anyway, they went to my mom's house once and he was mad because he had wanted to go to the playground or something instead. He started pounding on my mom's piano and my mom scooped him up and paddled his behind. I would never do that to someone else's child. Well, I don't spank my own kids because I know it really never taught me anything when my mom spanked me except to be afraid to make mistakes. I usually didn't know what I had done wrong. But I certainly wouldn't put my hands on someone ELSE's kid unless it was to grab their hands when they are trying to hit me or something. I can't believe the mother wasn't livid. But that was mom's thing....you do what I tell you to do and you do it right now, or "I'll spank you so hard, you won't be able to sit for a week". I wasn't allowed to go anywhere where there wasn't adult supervision, so if my friend's parents weren't home, I couldn't go to their house. In high school, I was allowed to go out for a walk or whatever until it started to get dark, but in the winter, it gets dark early. It's really embarrassing to be the only 17 year old whose curfew is 5pm. And for going to the movies, etc, we had to drive 40 miles to the next town where they had a movie theater, fast food restaurants, etc. I was only allowed to go with a friend if their parents were driving, OR I could go if my brother was going. I wasn't allowed to go with my friends until I was a senior in high school because my brother was away at college. But I wasn't always allowed to go then, either. Some things seemed reasonable....it was a 40 mile drive, so things like calling her before we headed home....if something happened on the road like we got a flat tire, it was dark and there were no cell phones then. So she knew how long it should take, and if it took longer, she should come looking for us. She did have to come pick us up once when my distributor cap got a hole in it and the car wouldn't start. Fortunately that time, we had stopped at the gas station to use the pay phone to call her to say we were on our way, so when the car wouldn't start, we just had to call her back and tell her to come get us and we walked a couple of blocks to perkins to wait for her. Calling was a reasonable request. But I didn't understand why my brother was allowed to take a carload of his friends to the movies, but I wasn't. I couldn't go unless he went. My brother could go to a friend's house without the parents there. My brother could go to a girl's house, but I couldn't go to a boy's house. My brother could go out after dark, but I couldn't. I asked her once why there were different rules and she said because I'm a girl and girls can get into a lot more trouble.

The music thing still boggles me. It was an honest mistake. 2 folders on the music stand, exactly alike, you grab one and don't realize it's not yours until you get home. It's got the same music in it...and we were 11 years old. We were beginners....there WERE no markings in the music. We were still learning "This is an F, and this is how you play it." It really wasn't the end of the world and it could have happened to anyone. The fact that it happened to the golden child of our year who was known for being really responsible and intelligent is proof that it wasn't the result of negligence or stupidity. It was just a mix up. But when I went to college, my mom would come to visit and she'd go through my drawers, my bank book, she'd open my mail, she'd listen to my answering machine messages. She'd wait until I went to the bathroom, and I'd come back and get interrogated about why I spent $3 on a snack when I had the dining plan...that was a waste of money and it was irresponsible. Or I'd come back and she'd be listening to my messages and asking me who so and so was, what they wanted, etc. I started hiding my bank book....I actually forgot where I hid my check book and had to wait until I moved at the end of the school year before I found it again. And I would go to the bathroom BEFORE I let my mom into my room. My senior year of high school, my mom announced that she was going to move to Laramie with me for college so I could live with her instead of in the dorms. I told her she was welcome to move to Laramie, but I wasn't going to live with her. I wanted the dorm experience. I wanted to participate in activities with other students and know what was going on on campus...I wanted to be independent and really get the full college experience. What I DIDN'T tell her was there was no way I was going to tell my new friends that I couldn't go out after class because my mommy said I had to come straight home after school, or that my curfew was dark. I had been biding my time until I went away to college so I could finally be out after dark, go out with friends, hang out at someone else's house, etc. I knew if I lived with her, even though I was an adult, that wouldn't be allowed. So I just told her I wasn't going to live with her. She was so mad, and she told everyone I "wouldn't let her move". I told her "You can absolutely move there if you want, but I won't be living with you." "Well then there's no point in moving there!" My brother lived there too, so she would have been close to both of her kids....the real reason she wanted to move was because she couldn't control me if I didn't live with her. She was terrified of what I would do if she wasn't the one making the rules. She told me that I wasn't allowed to go to a different church. She had already chosen my religion for me. I was LCMS whether I liked it or not! She was very controlling, and I think she was convinced that anything other than her opinion was wrong, and doing anything against HER wishes was terrible behavior. I'm not familiar with stepford wives, so I'm not sure what that means, but if it has to do with controlling adult children, that was my mom.
 

Songbird76

Well-Known Member
While I know your MIL made things difficult when you began living there, it does sound like your inlaws have had a better approach with things. I don't care whether it's a parent, a teacher, whatever...nobody is perfect. Claiming that it's the only way you'll get respect illustrates that person's fears. Fears they're doing it all wrong, fears that you'll figure out their flaws, etc. I think it's better to see that we're all flawed. Not only does it keep kids from being bogged down by unrealistic expectations, it could help them recognize when an authority figure is doing more harm than good. Our high school Valedictorian was a sweet girl, but her parents were utterly oppressive when it came to school and related expectations. By some point in our junior year, they decided she needed to do more with her singing to look better on paper. It's hard to know if she ever had any love for it because she was too afraid to ever have an opinion of her own. In one year, she managed to get enough training to make Region, All State and All East as an Alto II. While her natural voice seemed to be a bit higher, they aimed for a less competitive voice part that also enabled them to tie in more musicianship honors that she just wasn't getting in her normal Sop II spot. She got into Princeton and was such a basket case at some point freshman year that she ended up having a really serious breakdown. Like your mom's A- reaction, it's my understanding that she'd face brutally harsh punishment for anything less than perfection. All in all, nobody is ever a perfect parent, and while there are a lot of good ones out there (and not just the PTO and booster club presidents), there are some that cause irreparable damage to their kids.
Kids aren't stupid. They know their parents aren't perfect. They know their parents make mistakes. It's kind of pointless to try to appear perfect. Kids know it's an act and it just makes them lose respect. It's basically a lie, and you ruin the trust they have in you when you can't be honest. You can't expect them to be honest with you when you are living a lie yourself. I think with my mom, she was terrified that people would see her faults. She was a single parent and people expect that kids from "broken homes" will struggle, and she was afraid of being judged by other people. So we had to always be the best so she looked like she was doing a fantastic job, so no one would question her parenting. If we had the best grades, and we never got in trouble, then people wouldn't be able to say she was doing anything wrong. She trusted my brother's judgement. He was a lot like her in personality, where I was....not. And he was also very good at lying and manipulation. You can see on my face if I try to lie. So she allowed my brother a lot more freedom, assuming he would make the right choices (her choices), where she didn't trust me to do what she would do, so I was on a tighter rein. And since he was older, a high achiever, and a boy, he was also privileged in a way I wasn't. She saw him as a really responsible young man, where she saw me as a flake. She had this cousin she grew up with...her family was really close. Her dad died when she was 2 and her mom and dad both had lots of brothers and sisters and they all lived in the same 10 mile radius, so all the cousins grew up like siblings, and her aunts and uncles kind of filled in as parents at times. So this cousin was actually older than her by a couple of years, but my mom always said she was flaky, you couldn't really trust her to make the plans because she didn't think things through, etc. She always told me I reminded her of this cousin. I hadn't seen this cousin since I was only a few years old...I didn't really remember her, but she sang at my wedding (my mother insisted I HAD to have a Lutheran singer, despite the fact that I was a music major and could have asked any one of my friends. I had never heard her cousin sing, but knew she had studied music, so I relented. She was good, so it was fine.) When they came for the wedding, my mom was being her typical overbearing self and the cousin pulled me aside to tell me that's the way mom always was with her too, and she MEANS well, and just to try to ignore her and enjoy my wedding as it was MY day, not mom's. But in being around her, I realized she wasn't flaky at all. She was an upbeat person, which is completely opposite of my mother. My mother was not a smiley person, or a happy person. She got a job at the local grocery store and the manager was always telling her she needed to smile and be more friendly with customers, but she refused because she said it was enough that she was efficient. Her job wasn't to pretend to be nice. So my mom was just not an optimistic, positive person, and she viewed people like my cousin and me as being flaky. She equated that upbeat nature as ditsy, "flighty". She didn't see me as being a capable person with good judgement, because I wasn't just like her. She told me the worst thing anyone ever said to her in her life was when I told her I wasn't just like her. I had told her (at almost 19 years old) that we were different people and were bound to do things differently sometimes, but that she had to trust that she had done a good enough job raising me that I'd be able to handle things myself. She said that was a really mean thing to say, that I wasn't just like her, because she had tried really hard to raise me to be, and it was cruel to say I was different. If I didn't do things the way she did them, then I was rejecting her. So I think you nailed it when you said it's about their fears. She didn't want to be judged, and she was terrified of being rejected, so she tried to control everything so we could never "reject" her by doing something different. And I had to appear perfect so that she could. Sounds like maybe your valedictorian's parents had similar fears..."What if people see we're not perfect? Better make sure she looks like she is so they won't see if we mess up."
 

HouCuseChickie

Well-Known Member
I decided to take the day off from work today. A front came through yesterday bringing nicer temps, and I was hoping to get in a walk, but the wind is just too much. I get hit in the face with twigs, leaves and pine needles each time I go out. It's probably for the best since this front has been messing with my sinuses and I did have to put together all of our passport applications. They have a great website where you can fill it out online and then print it...except when it prints, it cuts off the last couple of cms on the bottom of each page... which of course is barcoding and internal use areas they'd need. So, I had to fill them all out by hand, which leaves no room for errors or penmanship issues. Between the four of us, I think I filled out a whopping 12 applications by hand before I got them all looking good. Does serious writer's cramp count as working out?

I also wanted to share a few videos. K had her first full length choir concert since all things Covid. It was mainly a solo show, but I'm attaching two of the choral ones. I wish I'd gotten all of Bohemian Rhapsody, but glad I got what I did. The hands remind me a lot of a Pippen (Magic to Do) video with Ben Vereen. We also had a first...a fire alarm went off during the concert. This pool girl was mid-solo at the time and went into major panic attack over this. The whole school had to be evacuated. There was a volleyball meet also going on, so there were a ton of people outside. Turns out someone burned a bag of popcorn in the microwave. I guess at least it wasn't a prank. The alarm system must be similar to the one in my office building. Granted, it's been nearly 20 months since I've set foot in there, but same noise and strobe lights. I think I was the only one who popped up when they started going off ... like hey, we need to leave!









I had debated about taking a video of the men's chorus, since they did a number from Robin Hood- Men in Tights, but I decided it was creepy since I don't have any kids in that group.

Obviously, not a workout activity, but sometimes getting out for things like this is a good mental refresh.
 

HouCuseChickie

Well-Known Member
Yeah, we didn't have the benefit of an autism diagnosis until A was 9, so we couldn't put it into perspective. I kept saying his behavior wasn't typical for his age...I didn't know ANY other kids who would cry like they were being tortured because mom walked up the stairs before dad. He had these routines from the time he was only a year old or so, that if we did anything differently, he would completely freak out. Like, the first time we went to swimming lessons, we got off the bus and I needed to cross the street, but I wasn't sure which one. I went one street too far and had to double back before crossing. The next time we went, I knew the way, so I just crossed immediately and he starts screaming, terrified, saying we were going the wrong way. I pointed to the rec center and said "No, look, there it is. This is the right way." He kept insisting we had to go back, cross the street, go to the other street and cross back like we did the first time. He refused to go further, even though we could see the rec center from where we were. I had to pick him up, kicking and screaming, and drag him there. The next week, he started crying as soon as we got off the bus and asked if we could PLEASE cross the other street first. So we did that every week. I asked him about it and he said it made him feel safer. My husband didn't believe there was anything going on because he was at work all day and wasn't witnessing these meltdowns. I got pretty good at dealing with them, and I learned to have a lot of patience with him. But because I did, my husband didn't really notice anything. He knew A had a lot of meltdowns, but I was good at dealing with them, so he figured it was just typical kid stuff and nothing to worry about, while I was completely frazzled having to deal with meltdowns all day every day. Now that we understand what was going on in his head, it makes it easier to deal with, and now my husband is a lot better with the wording and being able to get to the crux of the problem and figure out solutions.

I'm curious...did I understand that correctly that strangers wanted you to hand K over to them to walk around with them to calm her? That's kind of creepy.

I think my mom's definition of bad behavior was more like your friends'. It used to really embarass me that my mom would try to discipline other people's children. She would tap a kid on the shoulder at church and chew them out for being disruptive, because she thought the parents should have put a stop to their wiggling around or whatever. She spanked her friend's kid once when they were at our house....I was in college by that time, but there was a friend who was around my age and who didn't have parents anymore. I guess my mom was kind of like a parent to her in some ways. But she was married and had a little boy about 3 or 4 years old, and the boy had some issues. He talked, but it wasn't understandable....he didn't really pronounce consonants, so he called me "oo-uh". It was extremely difficult to understand him. When our mutual friend was in the hospital with pneumonia, my mom and I and this woman went to clean his house so when he got out of the hospital, he could just come home...it was Christmas vacation, so I was home from college. The woman brought her son, and he was 3 then, and while they were working on cleaning, I was kind of babysitting him. We were playing with the checkers board and he started throwing the pieces, so I told him we don't throw things, and he picked up the board and threw it at me. He just wasn't used to boundaries, and his mom really had no experience with kids before she had him and she was really young. He just hadn't been taught how to behave really. Anyway, they went to my mom's house once and he was mad because he had wanted to go to the playground or something instead. He started pounding on my mom's piano and my mom scooped him up and paddled his behind. I would never do that to someone else's child. Well, I don't spank my own kids because I know it really never taught me anything when my mom spanked me except to be afraid to make mistakes. I usually didn't know what I had done wrong. But I certainly wouldn't put my hands on someone ELSE's kid unless it was to grab their hands when they are trying to hit me or something. I can't believe the mother wasn't livid. But that was mom's thing....you do what I tell you to do and you do it right now, or "I'll spank you so hard, you won't be able to sit for a week". I wasn't allowed to go anywhere where there wasn't adult supervision, so if my friend's parents weren't home, I couldn't go to their house. In high school, I was allowed to go out for a walk or whatever until it started to get dark, but in the winter, it gets dark early. It's really embarrassing to be the only 17 year old whose curfew is 5pm. And for going to the movies, etc, we had to drive 40 miles to the next town where they had a movie theater, fast food restaurants, etc. I was only allowed to go with a friend if their parents were driving, OR I could go if my brother was going. I wasn't allowed to go with my friends until I was a senior in high school because my brother was away at college. But I wasn't always allowed to go then, either. Some things seemed reasonable....it was a 40 mile drive, so things like calling her before we headed home....if something happened on the road like we got a flat tire, it was dark and there were no cell phones then. So she knew how long it should take, and if it took longer, she should come looking for us. She did have to come pick us up once when my distributor cap got a hole in it and the car wouldn't start. Fortunately that time, we had stopped at the gas station to use the pay phone to call her to say we were on our way, so when the car wouldn't start, we just had to call her back and tell her to come get us and we walked a couple of blocks to perkins to wait for her. Calling was a reasonable request. But I didn't understand why my brother was allowed to take a carload of his friends to the movies, but I wasn't. I couldn't go unless he went. My brother could go to a friend's house without the parents there. My brother could go to a girl's house, but I couldn't go to a boy's house. My brother could go out after dark, but I couldn't. I asked her once why there were different rules and she said because I'm a girl and girls can get into a lot more trouble.

The music thing still boggles me. It was an honest mistake. 2 folders on the music stand, exactly alike, you grab one and don't realize it's not yours until you get home. It's got the same music in it...and we were 11 years old. We were beginners....there WERE no markings in the music. We were still learning "This is an F, and this is how you play it." It really wasn't the end of the world and it could have happened to anyone. The fact that it happened to the golden child of our year who was known for being really responsible and intelligent is proof that it wasn't the result of negligence or stupidity. It was just a mix up. But when I went to college, my mom would come to visit and she'd go through my drawers, my bank book, she'd open my mail, she'd listen to my answering machine messages. She'd wait until I went to the bathroom, and I'd come back and get interrogated about why I spent $3 on a snack when I had the dining plan...that was a waste of money and it was irresponsible. Or I'd come back and she'd be listening to my messages and asking me who so and so was, what they wanted, etc. I started hiding my bank book....I actually forgot where I hid my check book and had to wait until I moved at the end of the school year before I found it again. And I would go to the bathroom BEFORE I let my mom into my room. My senior year of high school, my mom announced that she was going to move to Laramie with me for college so I could live with her instead of in the dorms. I told her she was welcome to move to Laramie, but I wasn't going to live with her. I wanted the dorm experience. I wanted to participate in activities with other students and know what was going on on campus...I wanted to be independent and really get the full college experience. What I DIDN'T tell her was there was no way I was going to tell my new friends that I couldn't go out after class because my mommy said I had to come straight home after school, or that my curfew was dark. I had been biding my time until I went away to college so I could finally be out after dark, go out with friends, hang out at someone else's house, etc. I knew if I lived with her, even though I was an adult, that wouldn't be allowed. So I just told her I wasn't going to live with her. She was so mad, and she told everyone I "wouldn't let her move". I told her "You can absolutely move there if you want, but I won't be living with you." "Well then there's no point in moving there!" My brother lived there too, so she would have been close to both of her kids....the real reason she wanted to move was because she couldn't control me if I didn't live with her. She was terrified of what I would do if she wasn't the one making the rules. She told me that I wasn't allowed to go to a different church. She had already chosen my religion for me. I was LCMS whether I liked it or not! She was very controlling, and I think she was convinced that anything other than her opinion was wrong, and doing anything against HER wishes was terrible behavior. I'm not familiar with stepford wives, so I'm not sure what that means, but if it has to do with controlling adult children, that was my mom.

Kids aren't stupid. They know their parents aren't perfect. They know their parents make mistakes. It's kind of pointless to try to appear perfect. Kids know it's an act and it just makes them lose respect. It's basically a lie, and you ruin the trust they have in you when you can't be honest. You can't expect them to be honest with you when you are living a lie yourself. I think with my mom, she was terrified that people would see her faults. She was a single parent and people expect that kids from "broken homes" will struggle, and she was afraid of being judged by other people. So we had to always be the best so she looked like she was doing a fantastic job, so no one would question her parenting. If we had the best grades, and we never got in trouble, then people wouldn't be able to say she was doing anything wrong. She trusted my brother's judgement. He was a lot like her in personality, where I was....not. And he was also very good at lying and manipulation. You can see on my face if I try to lie. So she allowed my brother a lot more freedom, assuming he would make the right choices (her choices), where she didn't trust me to do what she would do, so I was on a tighter rein. And since he was older, a high achiever, and a boy, he was also privileged in a way I wasn't. She saw him as a really responsible young man, where she saw me as a flake. She had this cousin she grew up with...her family was really close. Her dad died when she was 2 and her mom and dad both had lots of brothers and sisters and they all lived in the same 10 mile radius, so all the cousins grew up like siblings, and her aunts and uncles kind of filled in as parents at times. So this cousin was actually older than her by a couple of years, but my mom always said she was flaky, you couldn't really trust her to make the plans because she didn't think things through, etc. She always told me I reminded her of this cousin. I hadn't seen this cousin since I was only a few years old...I didn't really remember her, but she sang at my wedding (my mother insisted I HAD to have a Lutheran singer, despite the fact that I was a music major and could have asked any one of my friends. I had never heard her cousin sing, but knew she had studied music, so I relented. She was good, so it was fine.) When they came for the wedding, my mom was being her typical overbearing self and the cousin pulled me aside to tell me that's the way mom always was with her too, and she MEANS well, and just to try to ignore her and enjoy my wedding as it was MY day, not mom's. But in being around her, I realized she wasn't flaky at all. She was an upbeat person, which is completely opposite of my mother. My mother was not a smiley person, or a happy person. She got a job at the local grocery store and the manager was always telling her she needed to smile and be more friendly with customers, but she refused because she said it was enough that she was efficient. Her job wasn't to pretend to be nice. So my mom was just not an optimistic, positive person, and she viewed people like my cousin and me as being flaky. She equated that upbeat nature as ditsy, "flighty". She didn't see me as being a capable person with good judgement, because I wasn't just like her. She told me the worst thing anyone ever said to her in her life was when I told her I wasn't just like her. I had told her (at almost 19 years old) that we were different people and were bound to do things differently sometimes, but that she had to trust that she had done a good enough job raising me that I'd be able to handle things myself. She said that was a really mean thing to say, that I wasn't just like her, because she had tried really hard to raise me to be, and it was cruel to say I was different. If I didn't do things the way she did them, then I was rejecting her. So I think you nailed it when you said it's about their fears. She didn't want to be judged, and she was terrified of being rejected, so she tried to control everything so we could never "reject" her by doing something different. And I had to appear perfect so that she could. Sounds like maybe your valedictorian's parents had similar fears..."What if people see we're not perfect? Better make sure she looks like she is so they won't see if we mess up."

I've heard a number of stories like that from friends. One of my work friends found out about a year or so ago that her son is on the spectrum and while it still means a lot of challenges, it's afforded her a number of tools she didn't know to use before. She spoke a lot about similar situations, where she tried doing something differently, but he melted down because it wasn't the same. They went to Disney pre-diagnosis and there were a lot of issues, but now, she knows more and can plan accordingly. I can see how your husband might think all was Ok if he never saw any of it, but as long as he has come around to things with the diagnosis and is part of the solutions when he is part of the plans for the day. One of my college friends has three boys...two of which are identical twins...and one of the twins is autisitc. I can't recall how old he was when he was diagnosed, but I know they always have the challenge of twin mentality and the whole "they look the same" yet so different because of this.

Yes...strangers offered to watch my kid. They had other children with them, but they weren't going to get to watch her either way. At the time, it didn't feel creepy, but in hindsight...it was. I think I was more disturbed by the woman who thought the cheese she had in her bag was some kind of magic cure-all.

I could never imagine spanking another person's child! Yet, I also know some people who are all for corporal punishment in schools. I briefly worked with a girl (not the best person) who went off one day, while at work, demanding that her kid's teacher paddle her in class in front of everyone. I will admit that we tried spanking at some point with K, but it wasn't effective and I didn't like feeding the anger I had over our fights with physical punishment. I think some people are just much better with kids than others. K is amazing with little kids and can get the most wild child to engage in whatever game or activity she has come up with to help bring some peace.

I honestly give my parents a lot of credit for letting me go out with my friends in high school. There were no cell phones, no GPS tracking, no "find my" sound played when they have all other sounds off and aren't paying attention. I don't know how my parents would have been in my freshman or sophomore years if the closest theater were over 40 miles away. By junior year, I know I could go places that were farther, because our Six Flags was about 50 miles from my house and our favorite beach as teens was about 65 miles away. As for curfew, it started at 11:30pm my freshman year and then I earned an extra 30 minutes each year. Towards the end of senior year, 1pm was lifted and it was just a please don't be out all night. K only has one friend that drives, but a lot of that will be changing next year. I know I was allowed to go with friends, as early as freshman year, so I just want to be fair and give her the chances like I had when they come. Still, it's hard because the what if's start playing out in your head. And assuming all goes as planned, she'll be licensed to drive a whole year earlier than I was (NJ was 17 vs. it being 16 here). It's just sad that she allowed your brother to do all these things, but she punished you for your gender. The college stuff sounds absolutely maddening. I know my friend's daughter intentionally picked someplace a few hours away just so she didn't have her mom interfering in her life. I remember several times trying to convince said friend that it was inappropriate to make the 3-4 hour drive and show up unannounced as well. Like what are you trying to catch her doing and what do you really think you're going to get out of it when said child is an adult? I think that kid would have gone even farther if she could. I remember the mom losing it because a relative let her kid go to school in OH or maybe it was MI. She threw a fit and it wasn't even her own kid, yet somehow she equated letting a kid go this far for college was bad parenting. I guess that's the problem with overbearing parents...if they tend to either push their kids away as soon as they are legally adults or they are mentally destroyed, living in fear as an adult with the controlling parent. I'm sorry you had to go through all of this with your mom. Not that it's a great consolation, but it probably helped show you what you didn't want to be as a parent...from the inequities and helicoptering to the flying off the handle over nothing matters like the music. I'm sure that helped a lot to meet that cousin and get some real life perspective on what she really was like, vs. your mother's description. And in the end, you know it's not rejection to say you're not the carbon copy of your parent. She may have never learned to accept this, but you will always know that it taught you lessons on being more accepting of differences and being a more patient person.
 

Songbird76

Well-Known Member
I decided to take the day off from work today. A front came through yesterday bringing nicer temps, and I was hoping to get in a walk, but the wind is just too much. I get hit in the face with twigs, leaves and pine needles each time I go out. It's probably for the best since this front has been messing with my sinuses and I did have to put together all of our passport applications. They have a great website where you can fill it out online and then print it...except when it prints, it cuts off the last couple of cms on the bottom of each page... which of course is barcoding and internal use areas they'd need. So, I had to fill them all out by hand, which leaves no room for errors or penmanship issues. Between the four of us, I think I filled out a whopping 12 applications by hand before I got them all looking good. Does serious writer's cramp count as working out?

I also wanted to share a few videos. K had her first full length choir concert since all things Covid. It was mainly a solo show, but I'm attaching two of the choral ones. I wish I'd gotten all of Bohemian Rhapsody, but glad I got what I did. The hands remind me a lot of a Pippen (Magic to Do) video with Ben Vereen. We also had a first...a fire alarm went off during the concert. This pool girl was mid-solo at the time and went into major panic attack over this. The whole school had to be evacuated. There was a volleyball meet also going on, so there were a ton of people outside. Turns out someone burned a bag of popcorn in the microwave. I guess at least it wasn't a prank. The alarm system must be similar to the one in my office building. Granted, it's been nearly 20 months since I've set foot in there, but same noise and strobe lights. I think I was the only one who popped up when they started going off ... like hey, we need to leave!









I had debated about taking a video of the men's chorus, since they did a number from Robin Hood- Men in Tights, but I decided it was creepy since I don't have any kids in that group.

Obviously, not a workout activity, but sometimes getting out for things like this is a good mental refresh.

Passports...that's exciting! Where are you going?

I miss stuff like school concerts. They don't have band or choir here in the schools, so there are no programs like this. I feel bad for E because last year, she really wanted to do theater, but they couldn't do it because of Covid regulations. This year, they can finally do it, but she's realized that she just doesn't have the time to devote to it. She's already feeling overwhelmed and she doesn't want to make a committment if she can't give it 100%. She's supposed to be a tutor, she's got the hardest profile that includes Physics, Chemistry, Biology, and the most complicated math. She missed a few days just before the fall break and had several tests to make up, got behind on her research project, etc. So she had to read 2 books in the vacation, work on her research, then had 4 tests to do this week, a presentation of the research (which is ridiculous....the company that the school brought in to give them the assignment is expecting high school sophomores to basically do professional level scientific research, using majorly expensive equipment that the school doesn't have and chemicals they don't have access to) and she has the art and culture project she has to finish by next week. She's freaking out already and hasn't even heard anything more about the tutoring program. She's glad she decided not to do the extra workshop program. Her teacher was really disappointed that she decided against it, but the first workshop was yesterday, and the kids doing the program missed a test, which she was still making up tests she missed 2 weeks ago. I wish she had an activity for fun, like theater or choir, but she's afraid her grades will suffer if she does anything extra, and since colleges here don't look at that for admittance, and there's no such thing as a scholarship, it doesn't matter.

A's school doesn't offer any extra activities, but he has tennis and chess outside of school, so he's fine. He also doesn't usually get homework. They try to keep it to a minimum so the kids can get it done at school. He's freaked out this week, too though. Something happened with math....he didn't quite get it done in class, and he was supposed to do it in the vacation, but he needed a protractor and didn't know we have one, so he just didn't do the homework, so now he's behind and they have a test next week. Last time he got a low grade on the math test because the teacher couldn't read his handwriting even though he knew how to do the math. Then they found out on Tuesday that his main teacher got a new job and this is her last week. The school has known this basically all year and didn't prepare the kids or parents....just threw it out there on Tuesday that, by the way, this is the teacher's last week, and we don't have a replacement, so you'll have substitutes until further notice. And then Wednesday, a kid tried to cut in line at recess and when he tried to stop him, the kid punched him in the stomach. He was so overwhelmed yesterday that he didn't even want his favorite food. He was just unable to process everything that's going on. The teachers emailed us in the afternoon to say he had basically unravelled during PE and spent the rest of the day in the "nevenruimte" which is just a small classroom where the kids can go if they are overwhelmed and need to process. If they just can't handle the classroom setting at the moment, they go to this room. In general, I think there's a psychologist on premisis whose job it is to check in on those kids and talk to them about what's going on. And it was the psychologist who emailed us, so I'm guessing that's what happened.

Anyway, bad week this week for both kids. They are stressing. And my driving instructor still has covid, so no lessons, but I'm supposed to take my driving test on the 11th. We're all just a bit stressed.
 

Songbird76

Well-Known Member
I've heard a number of stories like that from friends. One of my work friends found out about a year or so ago that her son is on the spectrum and while it still means a lot of challenges, it's afforded her a number of tools she didn't know to use before. She spoke a lot about similar situations, where she tried doing something differently, but he melted down because it wasn't the same. They went to Disney pre-diagnosis and there were a lot of issues, but now, she knows more and can plan accordingly. I can see how your husband might think all was Ok if he never saw any of it, but as long as he has come around to things with the diagnosis and is part of the solutions when he is part of the plans for the day. One of my college friends has three boys...two of which are identical twins...and one of the twins is autisitc. I can't recall how old he was when he was diagnosed, but I know they always have the challenge of twin mentality and the whole "they look the same" yet so different because of this.

Yes...strangers offered to watch my kid. They had other children with them, but they weren't going to get to watch her either way. At the time, it didn't feel creepy, but in hindsight...it was. I think I was more disturbed by the woman who thought the cheese she had in her bag was some kind of magic cure-all.

I could never imagine spanking another person's child! Yet, I also know some people who are all for corporal punishment in schools. I briefly worked with a girl (not the best person) who went off one day, while at work, demanding that her kid's teacher paddle her in class in front of everyone. I will admit that we tried spanking at some point with K, but it wasn't effective and I didn't like feeding the anger I had over our fights with physical punishment. I think some people are just much better with kids than others. K is amazing with little kids and can get the most wild child to engage in whatever game or activity she has come up with to help bring some peace.

I honestly give my parents a lot of credit for letting me go out with my friends in high school. There were no cell phones, no GPS tracking, no "find my" sound played when they have all other sounds off and aren't paying attention. I don't know how my parents would have been in my freshman or sophomore years if the closest theater were over 40 miles away. By junior year, I know I could go places that were farther, because our Six Flags was about 50 miles from my house and our favorite beach as teens was about 65 miles away. As for curfew, it started at 11:30pm my freshman year and then I earned an extra 30 minutes each year. Towards the end of senior year, 1pm was lifted and it was just a please don't be out all night. K only has one friend that drives, but a lot of that will be changing next year. I know I was allowed to go with friends, as early as freshman year, so I just want to be fair and give her the chances like I had when they come. Still, it's hard because the what if's start playing out in your head. And assuming all goes as planned, she'll be licensed to drive a whole year earlier than I was (NJ was 17 vs. it being 16 here). It's just sad that she allowed your brother to do all these things, but she punished you for your gender. The college stuff sounds absolutely maddening. I know my friend's daughter intentionally picked someplace a few hours away just so she didn't have her mom interfering in her life. I remember several times trying to convince said friend that it was inappropriate to make the 3-4 hour drive and show up unannounced as well. Like what are you trying to catch her doing and what do you really think you're going to get out of it when said child is an adult? I think that kid would have gone even farther if she could. I remember the mom losing it because a relative let her kid go to school in OH or maybe it was MI. She threw a fit and it wasn't even her own kid, yet somehow she equated letting a kid go this far for college was bad parenting. I guess that's the problem with overbearing parents...if they tend to either push their kids away as soon as they are legally adults or they are mentally destroyed, living in fear as an adult with the controlling parent. I'm sorry you had to go through all of this with your mom. Not that it's a great consolation, but it probably helped show you what you didn't want to be as a parent...from the inequities and helicoptering to the flying off the handle over nothing matters like the music. I'm sure that helped a lot to meet that cousin and get some real life perspective on what she really was like, vs. your mother's description. And in the end, you know it's not rejection to say you're not the carbon copy of your parent. She may have never learned to accept this, but you will always know that it taught you lessons on being more accepting of differences and being a more patient person.
Yikes....I can't imagine having twins, even if only one of them is autistic! And another kid besides! I was struggling with my two, and E was really easy to handle, but A's constant meltdowns were so draining. Especially when he was too little to articulate what it was he wanted. Like, I could ask him if he wanted milk, he'd say yes, then scream when I got it for him, because he couldn't tell me that he wanted the blue cup instead of the green cup. If he had the blue cup the first time, he always wanted the blue cup...the blue cup equals safe, where the green cup....he doesn't know if the milk will taste the same in it. I figured this out after reading The Curious Incident of the Dog in the Nighttime. The main character talks about foods that are safe or unsafe, and he won't eat foods of this color because those aren't safe. A HAS to have fries on Fridays, and he used to HAVE to get fish on Wednesdays...that's the routine. And the chicken nuggets HAVE to be a specific brand, the fries have to be a specific kind. Anyway, when he was little, he couldn't tell me these things and he'd just have a meltdown and I couldn't figure out what he needed. I can't imagine trying to deal with that AND a twin.

How sad for that little girl that her mom wanted her humiliated in front of her class like that. I hope the school didn't do it!! I don't understand that need to humiliate kids. I've had teachers like that. When I was in college, one of my classes was in teaching choir. Unfortunately, our professor, who was also our choir director for the audition only choir, had prostate cancer and had gotten the local high school choir teacher to fill in for him for a few weeks. She was horrible. She gave us a reading assignment and then when we did the reading, she told us we read the wrong thing, that's not what she assigned. An entire college class all read the same thing and we ALL had it wrong?? And she treated us like little kids....we're 20 years old, not 12. She point blank told us that humiliation was a great motivator. Point out the kid who missed the entrance and make them do it over and over by themselves in front of everyone, and they'll never make that mistake again. I don't get that...sure, they might not make that mistake again, but they will also hate you and not trust you, and if you have to resort to that, you're not a very good teacher. Kids won't WANT to work hard for you if you treat them like that. They'll just lose interest in the arts.

I'm sure it was hard to let kids go 40 miles to the movies, but you can't drive until you're 16 anyway, so before freshma and sophomore years, it really wouldn't have been an issue. And those 40 miles on practically empty, flat roads...it wasn't bad. It only got busy when the shift changed at the mines around 7p.m. Kids really only went on Friday or Saturday nights, and as long as you avoided the peak times, you could drive miles before seeing another car. But our town had nothing. The bowling alley, Roller rink, movie theaters, it was all in that other town, and we only had one restaurant in our town and it wasn't great. Not a place you take a date, etc. Not that I was allowed to date anyway, so moot point. But I wasn't allowed out past dark because there WAS no place to go for teens, so they would hang out in the elementary school parking lot, or across from it. All the high school kids would go park there and hang out, and sometimes there was alcohol involved. I remember one time when I was in junior high, some high school kid....the step son of the local cop, actually, managed to drive into a street lamp post and knock it over. My mom didn't want me anywhere near those kids, and we lived right next to the school. She didn't want me "loitering" anywhere. She got really mad when I was in 8th grade and she found out I had gone to the rec center with my friend and sat on the steps and talked to other kids. She thought it woud "earn me a reputation." For what exactly? She went to the cafe every Saturday for coffee and sat there for hours with "the coffee girls" chatting. How was it any different other than my friends and I didn't spend money on coffee? I could not wait for college so I could finally have some freedom. And my college was 200 miles away from home...it was a 3-4 hour drive depending on traffic and how often you stopped for gas/bathroom breaks. She never showed up unannounced, thank goodness! Good for you for telling your friend that was inappropriate. I'm sure the daughter appreciated it. Were you able to talk her out of it or did she go anyway? My mom had a similar reaction to a friend of hers allowing her daughter to go to a church service at the mormon church. It wasn't even her kid and she couldn't believe the mom was just going to let her walk out the door and go to a different church!! Kids don't get to choose their religion....the parents choose for them. Our town had a large LDS population, so most of my friends were LDS. My friend Nikki's dad had some higher position in the church...I don't remember what, but I was at her house one day, and her dad was headed to the church and I had always been forbidden from going in. I'm not sure what my mom thought would happen, but I wasn't allowed to set foot in that church. I could occassionally go to the Episcopal church, and I went to my friend's dad's funeral in the Catholic church, but I wasn't allowed to set foot in the Mormon church. My friends would invite me to a function there....I think it was like Young Women's group or something, and they did various activities, like they had someone teach them to put on makeup. I wasn't allowed to go. I wasn't allowed to wear makeup, but even if I was, I wouldn't have been allowed to go to that activity because it was in the church. So Nikki asked me if I wanted to go with her and her dad to see the church. I felt so naughty going in because I knew I'd get grounded and wouldn't be allowed to hang out with Nikki anymore if my mom found out. I never told her. But you're so right about learning how I DIDN'T want to parent, and how to be more accepting of differences, etc. And I'm kind of like you in wanting E to have those experiences I DIDN'T get to have. Her one friend has started smoking, but I'm not going to tell her she can't hang out with this friend. Instead, we had a nice long talk when we walked on Wednesday about it and how it's kind of silly...this is the friend who berated E for wearing a face mask when it wasn't mandated, because it's so bad for your health because you're breathing in carbon dioxide. You won't wear a mask because you are afraid of what you are breathing in, but you'll smoke cigarettes? And she said the girl was sitting next to her in class, which E normally tries to avoid because the girl constantly distracts her and tries to get her to help her instead of doing her own work, and the girl was like "Oh yuck, I smell like smoke. I wasn't even wearing this coat outside!!" So we talked about not understanding the draw of smoking. It was one thing for my mom who started smoking in the 50s before they really knew how bad it was for you, and by the time they knew how bad it was, she was addicted and couldn't quit. But for people today, you'd have to be really oblivious not to know smoking is bad for you, and it smells terrible....what's the upside? And E is getting frustrated with this friend and her behavior....not studying for tests, not doing homework but then wanting E to give her the answers or help her understand things because she wasn't paying attention when it was explained and not wanting to look at the book to figure it out, being generally irresponsible and controlling of what the friend group does, and now she's started smoking. She said it kind of sucks because the girl is part of their friend group, so she can't really avoid her without avoiding the rest of the friends. Anyway, these are all things she has to learn to navigate. I can't be there with her all the time, and I can't make decisions for her...she has to learn to make the choices and stand up for herself if she doesn't want to smoke and her friend pressures her to. (she hasn't....yet) My mom tried to keep me from being exposed to any of those things, but you can't prevent exposure....that's just part of being a teen. They are going to be offered stuff like that. She has to learn how to handle that pressure. My job is to make sure she knows how she feels about it, and help her to have a strategy in place so she isn't caught off-guard. Help her to decide how to handle the situations when they come up. Because they WILL come up.
 

HouCuseChickie

Well-Known Member
Passports...that's exciting! Where are you going?

I miss stuff like school concerts. They don't have band or choir here in the schools, so there are no programs like this. I feel bad for E because last year, she really wanted to do theater, but they couldn't do it because of Covid regulations. This year, they can finally do it, but she's realized that she just doesn't have the time to devote to it. She's already feeling overwhelmed and she doesn't want to make a committment if she can't give it 100%. She's supposed to be a tutor, she's got the hardest profile that includes Physics, Chemistry, Biology, and the most complicated math. She missed a few days just before the fall break and had several tests to make up, got behind on her research project, etc. So she had to read 2 books in the vacation, work on her research, then had 4 tests to do this week, a presentation of the research (which is ridiculous....the company that the school brought in to give them the assignment is expecting high school sophomores to basically do professional level scientific research, using majorly expensive equipment that the school doesn't have and chemicals they don't have access to) and she has the art and culture project she has to finish by next week. She's freaking out already and hasn't even heard anything more about the tutoring program. She's glad she decided not to do the extra workshop program. Her teacher was really disappointed that she decided against it, but the first workshop was yesterday, and the kids doing the program missed a test, which she was still making up tests she missed 2 weeks ago. I wish she had an activity for fun, like theater or choir, but she's afraid her grades will suffer if she does anything extra, and since colleges here don't look at that for admittance, and there's no such thing as a scholarship, it doesn't matter.

A's school doesn't offer any extra activities, but he has tennis and chess outside of school, so he's fine. He also doesn't usually get homework. They try to keep it to a minimum so the kids can get it done at school. He's freaked out this week, too though. Something happened with math....he didn't quite get it done in class, and he was supposed to do it in the vacation, but he needed a protractor and didn't know we have one, so he just didn't do the homework, so now he's behind and they have a test next week. Last time he got a low grade on the math test because the teacher couldn't read his handwriting even though he knew how to do the math. Then they found out on Tuesday that his main teacher got a new job and this is her last week. The school has known this basically all year and didn't prepare the kids or parents....just threw it out there on Tuesday that, by the way, this is the teacher's last week, and we don't have a replacement, so you'll have substitutes until further notice. And then Wednesday, a kid tried to cut in line at recess and when he tried to stop him, the kid punched him in the stomach. He was so overwhelmed yesterday that he didn't even want his favorite food. He was just unable to process everything that's going on. The teachers emailed us in the afternoon to say he had basically unravelled during PE and spent the rest of the day in the "nevenruimte" which is just a small classroom where the kids can go if they are overwhelmed and need to process. If they just can't handle the classroom setting at the moment, they go to this room. In general, I think there's a psychologist on premisis whose job it is to check in on those kids and talk to them about what's going on. And it was the psychologist who emailed us, so I'm guessing that's what happened.

Anyway, bad week this week for both kids. They are stressing. And my driving instructor still has covid, so no lessons, but I'm supposed to take my driving test on the 11th. We're all just a bit stressed.

We're going on a cruise this summer. The foreign ports involve the Bahamas and Nevis/St. Kitts. We also stop in St. Thomas, but no passport needed for that. It all started because the kids wanted Universal and my husband wanted tropical...and my parents wanted something where all of us could come together to celebrate their 50th wedding anniversary. My parents are avid cruises and are the highest level of RCCL's customer loyalty program. Not quite as high up, but my brother has a decent number of points too and he and his family love to cruise. So, I knew I needed to pick RCCL. While I'd have more options out of Ft. Lauderdale and Miami, I didn't want to drive that far, especially with Universal in the mix. So, I booked out of Port Canaveral and am planning two park days at Uni after the cruise. I think everyone decided on Royal Pacific for lodging, but we'll have to revisit it closer to the time. We MAY also pop into one of the DIsney parks on our first day, or at least hit property a couple of times to have a meal and maybe drive around. My husband actually wanted Atlantis, and while they do offer all kinds of add ons and activities, I really didn't want to fly + I'd read a lot of reviews of how quality has declined and you're really just getting the name. So, he's good with tropical on a Caribbean cruise instead.

I know a lot of these activities are a very American/US thing. I don't know which way is actually better, but having grown up with lots of activities and concerts, I'm happy to see our kids getting to be involved. My older one's homework volumes this year aren't as bad, so she's got more time to be in things. She had an AP teacher last year who would assign an average of 3 hours of homework a night and would often dump more on them between 7-8pm...just when they thought they had it all in check. This year is more normal...to the point that she's looking to some new activities to add in next year to put more on her college apps. I always wanted her to get into theater, but the middle school theater program was a pure snoozefest and was totally separate from the actual productions the school would do. I'm sorry it's so stressful for E right now. I think they all go through school times like that...especially with things like not hearing more on the tutoring program. I've had to work hard on K to be the squeaky wheel with some stuff like this. Not that it reduces the stress or always gets results, but I've seen too many kids have things that fall by the wayside because someone else in charge forgot.

Both our middle school and high school are supposed to take that kind of approach, so that kids are getting most of their work done in class...which would hopefully allow for more activities. I have a feeling the younger one is going to be a 3-4 season school athlete with private ball play out of school as well, but we're going to have to start looking at ways to keep her diversified. She's in journalism/yearbook this year. She's not loving it like she once was, but it may be one of those that she could do little bit parts on in high school just to add to her list of stuff. That's really unfortunate that there was so little warning about the teacher. Surely they could have let everyone know sooner. That's awful that he got punched. What happened with the kid who did the punching?
 

HouCuseChickie

Well-Known Member
Yikes....I can't imagine having twins, even if only one of them is autistic! And another kid besides! I was struggling with my two, and E was really easy to handle, but A's constant meltdowns were so draining. Especially when he was too little to articulate what it was he wanted. Like, I could ask him if he wanted milk, he'd say yes, then scream when I got it for him, because he couldn't tell me that he wanted the blue cup instead of the green cup. If he had the blue cup the first time, he always wanted the blue cup...the blue cup equals safe, where the green cup....he doesn't know if the milk will taste the same in it. I figured this out after reading The Curious Incident of the Dog in the Nighttime. The main character talks about foods that are safe or unsafe, and he won't eat foods of this color because those aren't safe. A HAS to have fries on Fridays, and he used to HAVE to get fish on Wednesdays...that's the routine. And the chicken nuggets HAVE to be a specific brand, the fries have to be a specific kind. Anyway, when he was little, he couldn't tell me these things and he'd just have a meltdown and I couldn't figure out what he needed. I can't imagine trying to deal with that AND a twin.

How sad for that little girl that her mom wanted her humiliated in front of her class like that. I hope the school didn't do it!! I don't understand that need to humiliate kids. I've had teachers like that. When I was in college, one of my classes was in teaching choir. Unfortunately, our professor, who was also our choir director for the audition only choir, had prostate cancer and had gotten the local high school choir teacher to fill in for him for a few weeks. She was horrible. She gave us a reading assignment and then when we did the reading, she told us we read the wrong thing, that's not what she assigned. An entire college class all read the same thing and we ALL had it wrong?? And she treated us like little kids....we're 20 years old, not 12. She point blank told us that humiliation was a great motivator. Point out the kid who missed the entrance and make them do it over and over by themselves in front of everyone, and they'll never make that mistake again. I don't get that...sure, they might not make that mistake again, but they will also hate you and not trust you, and if you have to resort to that, you're not a very good teacher. Kids won't WANT to work hard for you if you treat them like that. They'll just lose interest in the arts.

I'm sure it was hard to let kids go 40 miles to the movies, but you can't drive until you're 16 anyway, so before freshma and sophomore years, it really wouldn't have been an issue. And those 40 miles on practically empty, flat roads...it wasn't bad. It only got busy when the shift changed at the mines around 7p.m. Kids really only went on Friday or Saturday nights, and as long as you avoided the peak times, you could drive miles before seeing another car. But our town had nothing. The bowling alley, Roller rink, movie theaters, it was all in that other town, and we only had one restaurant in our town and it wasn't great. Not a place you take a date, etc. Not that I was allowed to date anyway, so moot point. But I wasn't allowed out past dark because there WAS no place to go for teens, so they would hang out in the elementary school parking lot, or across from it. All the high school kids would go park there and hang out, and sometimes there was alcohol involved. I remember one time when I was in junior high, some high school kid....the step son of the local cop, actually, managed to drive into a street lamp post and knock it over. My mom didn't want me anywhere near those kids, and we lived right next to the school. She didn't want me "loitering" anywhere. She got really mad when I was in 8th grade and she found out I had gone to the rec center with my friend and sat on the steps and talked to other kids. She thought it woud "earn me a reputation." For what exactly? She went to the cafe every Saturday for coffee and sat there for hours with "the coffee girls" chatting. How was it any different other than my friends and I didn't spend money on coffee? I could not wait for college so I could finally have some freedom. And my college was 200 miles away from home...it was a 3-4 hour drive depending on traffic and how often you stopped for gas/bathroom breaks. She never showed up unannounced, thank goodness! Good for you for telling your friend that was inappropriate. I'm sure the daughter appreciated it. Were you able to talk her out of it or did she go anyway? My mom had a similar reaction to a friend of hers allowing her daughter to go to a church service at the mormon church. It wasn't even her kid and she couldn't believe the mom was just going to let her walk out the door and go to a different church!! Kids don't get to choose their religion....the parents choose for them. Our town had a large LDS population, so most of my friends were LDS. My friend Nikki's dad had some higher position in the church...I don't remember what, but I was at her house one day, and her dad was headed to the church and I had always been forbidden from going in. I'm not sure what my mom thought would happen, but I wasn't allowed to set foot in that church. I could occassionally go to the Episcopal church, and I went to my friend's dad's funeral in the Catholic church, but I wasn't allowed to set foot in the Mormon church. My friends would invite me to a function there....I think it was like Young Women's group or something, and they did various activities, like they had someone teach them to put on makeup. I wasn't allowed to go. I wasn't allowed to wear makeup, but even if I was, I wouldn't have been allowed to go to that activity because it was in the church. So Nikki asked me if I wanted to go with her and her dad to see the church. I felt so naughty going in because I knew I'd get grounded and wouldn't be allowed to hang out with Nikki anymore if my mom found out. I never told her. But you're so right about learning how I DIDN'T want to parent, and how to be more accepting of differences, etc. And I'm kind of like you in wanting E to have those experiences I DIDN'T get to have. Her one friend has started smoking, but I'm not going to tell her she can't hang out with this friend. Instead, we had a nice long talk when we walked on Wednesday about it and how it's kind of silly...this is the friend who berated E for wearing a face mask when it wasn't mandated, because it's so bad for your health because you're breathing in carbon dioxide. You won't wear a mask because you are afraid of what you are breathing in, but you'll smoke cigarettes? And she said the girl was sitting next to her in class, which E normally tries to avoid because the girl constantly distracts her and tries to get her to help her instead of doing her own work, and the girl was like "Oh yuck, I smell like smoke. I wasn't even wearing this coat outside!!" So we talked about not understanding the draw of smoking. It was one thing for my mom who started smoking in the 50s before they really knew how bad it was for you, and by the time they knew how bad it was, she was addicted and couldn't quit. But for people today, you'd have to be really oblivious not to know smoking is bad for you, and it smells terrible....what's the upside? And E is getting frustrated with this friend and her behavior....not studying for tests, not doing homework but then wanting E to give her the answers or help her understand things because she wasn't paying attention when it was explained and not wanting to look at the book to figure it out, being generally irresponsible and controlling of what the friend group does, and now she's started smoking. She said it kind of sucks because the girl is part of their friend group, so she can't really avoid her without avoiding the rest of the friends. Anyway, these are all things she has to learn to navigate. I can't be there with her all the time, and I can't make decisions for her...she has to learn to make the choices and stand up for herself if she doesn't want to smoke and her friend pressures her to. (she hasn't....yet) My mom tried to keep me from being exposed to any of those things, but you can't prevent exposure....that's just part of being a teen. They are going to be offered stuff like that. She has to learn how to handle that pressure. My job is to make sure she knows how she feels about it, and help her to have a strategy in place so she isn't caught off-guard. Help her to decide how to handle the situations when they come up. Because they WILL come up.

And I think that's some of the difference with a child on the spectrum vs. one that isn't. You see a lot of meltdowns from kids over these same issues, but the meltdowns and battles tend to subside as the child becomes more verbal and learns to use their words to express wants and fears. I recall reading how even picky eating is tied into some hardwired developmental stage where most kids have a fear that food outside of their norms is dangerous and could hurt them. Again, the difference is that the child on the spectrum can't process the growth beyond this the way another child could.

It's interesting that you use the word humiliated, but I don't think this woman could ever see it from that perspective. It was a "my kid was bad and deserves a whoopin'" sort of mindset, which never really looks at the child. It's interesting that the college sub spoke about humiliation behind a motivator. Personally, I think it's one of the very worst things you can do to a stage performer. It's one thing to read some bad press, but to intentionally humiliate a person to their face is abusive. It makes me think of this audition coach I hired for my opera audition. Thankfully, there was no long term commitment required and I canceled all of my future sessions. Still, I can't think of this one aria without hearing the obnoxious things he said. It also reminds me of my boss at my first real job. He was horrible to us. I don't remember what I was doing that prompted him to tell me that he was rude and humiliating to us because he felt it made us stronger, but that was when I told him off and quit on the spot. It happened 24 years ago, but I believe I said something like only an ignorant insecure 🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬 would say such an idiotic thing. Nowadays, he probably would have been taken to court over his behavior.

I think so much of that hinges on where you grew up. There were always "the" places to go for local teens...and in most cases, it was just a bunch of kids hanging out. For us, there were a few spots only frequented by the druggies, as we called them, but obviously nobody was forcing anywhere to go there. As for the friend, I honestly can't remember. She pulled this so many times that I'm sure she showed up unannounced. She had to have at least once, because I remember hearing her all cranky that they drove out and the daughter wasn't in her apartment at a time she figured any studious kid would be home. Which was silly, because I think it was mid afternoon on a Saturday! Honestly, seeing the kids learn through their "bad" friends can be a blessing. Sometimes the kids just go separate ways all on their own because they see how their lives and interests are changing. In other cases, the brighter kids may start seeing teachers change their attitudes for being associated with a known bad kid. If the kid cares about their grades and said bad kid's behavior is something they don't want to do, it may also inspire them to start distancing. I guess that's the beauty of talking to them about this stuff and watching them use it to make good choices. It can even help them down the road. I had some high school friends, ones that I eventually ditched, that had started getting into more hardcore drugs. I got to see them in some really scary states while under the influence. I always said no, and was often not invited to those events because I wasn't into that stuff, but when offered in college and my early 20s...I just borrowed from their experiences. Yeah, it was a lie, but when offered cocaine or acid, I could just tell people I tried it in high school and had a really bad experience. I know enough about said friends' bad high school experiences that I had very believable detailed stories. Crazy waters to navigate, but I know I learned how to steer clear from some of those high school functions I was allowed to attend. Whew!
 

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