Workers want pay boost

[englanddg]

There is a documentary on HBO tonight called Paycheck to Paycheck about the working poor, and it should probably be required watching for some of the folks on this thread who never lived psycheck to paycheck and therefore, can't understand it.

Yes. Because slanted documentaries that cherry pick a specific story (the full title of the movie is "Paycheck to Paycheck - The Life and Times of Katrina Gilbert) are a great place to get (mis)information.

I've lived paycheck to paycheck. I also haven't done it for many years. But, controlling my expenses and strong financial planning was key.

http://www.slate.com/blogs/xx_facto...r_finds_the_poster_child_for_poverty_for.html

Lets examine her situation, for a moment, real finances, shall we?

First, she lives near Chattanooga, and she has three children, ranging in ages from what appears to be age 5 to age 9 (guessing).

She makes $9.49 an hour. Works 40 hours a week. Her pre-tax income is 19,739.20.

Post tax, with available credits, her net federal tax liability is 0. Her FICA liability is $1,510.05. Her credit refund is $8,092. So, her net annual income after federal taxes is $26,321.15.

Lets look at cost of living. She lives in Chattanooga, TN.

A quick search shows she could get a 3BR apartment / townhome in that market for around $650 a month (not the trailer she's shown to be living in...I certainly hope she's not paying $650 for that. I've lived in similar places before, and I'd guess she's paying more like $200 - 300 for that...but, we're gonna do a budget for her, and her kids need a nice community with good schools. So, $650 it is!

This is an example of a place that offers that...and it's new construction! And it offers free wifi (no internet bill!)

Not too shabby!

http://www.altonplaceapts.com/

So, lets stick with her pre-tax post deduction (paycheck) income. TN has no income tax, so her net pay per paycheck after FICA mandatory withholdings (as she qualifies on her W-4 for 11 exemptions, so she has no Federal Withholding outside of FICA) is 701.12, assuming she is paid biweekly.

This means that most months she'll have around $1400 to work with, and 2 months out of the year she'll have around $2100. But, since 10 months out of the year, she'll have $1400, we'll run with that.

$1400 - $650 rent = $750

Ok, now utilities. Chattanooga buys their power from TVA, and are tied to their base rates...but, she should expect an average power bill of around $120 for 1000 KWh. (source http://www.mlgw.com/images/content/files/pdf/UtilityRatesComparison.pdf)

Toss in a prepaid flat rate MetroPCS cel phone for $40 per month with unlimited text and talk and 500 MB of data.

$750 - 120 - 40 = $590

Getting skimpy...we still haven't eaten yet!

However, she does easily qualify for SNAP (Supplemental Nutritional Assistance Program). TN doesn't offer an online calculator, but using the federal SNAP benefits calculator, she is eligible for around $400 in benefits a month.

So, $100 a week in groceries as credit. Lets assume she spends $150. So...

$590 - $200 = $390.

Now, here's where it gets tough. To live and work in Chattanooga, the CARTA system isn't really going to do much for you. So, she will need a car. Average car insurance rates in TN are fairly low. Since she's out of the under 25 risk pool, and assuming she drives a low risk, low value vehicle, and has a clean driving record.

She should be able to get a monthly payment of around $75 a month (state average is $55, but I'm putting buffer in there).

390 - 75 = 315

Getting VERY tight. We'll also assume she fills up her vehicle twice a month at a cost of around $40 a tank. So, $80. Fair?

315 - 80 = 235

But, what's left? Well, not much in terms of mandatory expenses. Healthcare isn't really a concern because her family easily qualifies for Tenncare.

For the purposes of this, I will assume she owns her vehicle, and if she doesn't, that is something she should focus on correcting immediately, because a car payment is something she truly can't afford. However (and I'll get into this in a few lines), this is something that is easy for her to remedy.

Otherwise, there's your budget. That leaves around $235 for her to spend on "luxury items" such as kids activities, shopping, etc...per month.

But, note this budget does NOT include 2 paychecks of income. The months she gets the extra float income, due to budgeting without it, will be extra sweet (and should largely go into savings, if she's thinking correctly). Also, it does NOT include her annual tax credit of around $8k (I touched on this earlier).

This is why I say she can easily rectify her situation regarding a vehicle. Having around 10k to purchase a decent used vehicle in the Chattanooga market is pretty easy.

It also doesn't include any child support payments she may or may not be getting. Considering her ex seems to be a pill popper, I can't presume he's paying anything. But, that doesn't necessarily mean that is the case. However, for the sake of this exercise, I have left that out.

So, is she living high on the hog? Nope. But, tossing together a budget for her where she still has disposable income each month and also has 3 times a year where she gets a boost in income (tax refund and two un-budgeted paychecks per year)...yeah, she's not as hand to mouth as you may think.

She really has two options to modify her situation. The first is to focus on increasing her income. This could be through a variety of methods, be it part time work, work from home opportunities, etc...there are too many options out there to list. The second is to focus on lowering her monthly expenses, or at least turning them into an investment. With that, I'm referring to her saving up her tax refunds for a few years preparing herself to purchase a house.

She seems a very strong person, with a kind heart. I feel for her situation (though, all of it, was through her own life choices). You may consider this a callous analysis, but it is not. It's a straight-forward one, because money doesn't solve anything if it's poorly applied.

Many times what the "working poor" need is education in how to manage their finances, not just giving them more money.

 

[BuddyThomas]

Yes. Because slanted documentaries that cherry pick a specific story (the full title of the movie is "Paycheck to Paycheck - The Life and Times of Katrina Gilbert) are a great place to get (mis)information.

I've lived paycheck to paycheck. I also haven't done it for many years. But, controlling my expenses and strong financial planning was key.

http://www.slate.com/blogs/xx_facto...r_finds_the_poster_child_for_poverty_for.html

Lets examine her situation, for a moment, real finances, shall we?

First, she lives near Chattanooga, and she has three children, ranging in ages from what appears to be age 5 to age 9 (guessing).

She makes $9.49 an hour. Works 40 hours a week. Her pre-tax income is 19,739.20.

Post tax, with available credits, her net federal tax liability is 0. Her FICA liability is $1,510.05. Her credit refund is $8,092. So, her net annual income after federal taxes is $26,321.15.

Lets look at cost of living. She lives in Chattanooga, TN.

A quick search shows she could get a 3BR apartment / townhome in that market for around $650 a month (not the trailer she's shown to be living in...I certainly hope she's not paying $650 for that. I've lived in similar places before, and I'd guess she's paying more like $200 - 300 for that...but, we're gonna do a budget for her, and her kids need a nice community with good schools. So, $650 it is!

This is an example of a place that offers that...and it's new construction! And it offers free wifi (no internet bill!)

Not too shabby!

http://www.altonplaceapts.com/

So, lets stick with her pre-tax post deduction (paycheck) income. TN has no income tax, so her net pay per paycheck after FICA mandatory withholdings (as she qualifies on her W-4 for 11 exemptions, so she has no Federal Withholding outside of FICA) is 701.12, assuming she is paid biweekly.

This means that most months she'll have around $1400 to work with, and 2 months out of the year she'll have around $2100. But, since 10 months out of the year, she'll have $1400, we'll run with that.

$1400 - $650 rent = $750

Ok, now utilities. Chattanooga buys their power from TVA, and are tied to their base rates...but, she should expect an average power bill of around $120 for 1000 KWh. (source http://www.mlgw.com/images/content/files/pdf/UtilityRatesComparison.pdf)

Toss in a prepaid flat rate MetroPCS cel phone for $40 per month with unlimited text and talk and 500 MB of data.

$750 - 120 - 40 = $590

Getting skimpy...we still haven't eaten yet!

However, she does easily qualify for SNAP (Supplemental Nutritional Assistance Program). TN doesn't offer an online calculator, but using the federal SNAP benefits calculator, she is eligible for around $400 in benefits a month.

So, $100 a week in groceries as credit. Lets assume she spends $150. So...

$590 - $200 = $390.

Now, here's where it gets tough. To live and work in Chattanooga, the CARTA system isn't really going to do much for you. So, she will need a car. Average car insurance rates in TN are fairly low. Since she's out of the under 25 risk pool, and assuming she drives a low risk, low value vehicle, and has a clean driving record.

She should be able to get a monthly payment of around $75 a month (state average is $55, but I'm putting buffer in there).

390 - 75 = 315

Getting VERY tight. We'll also assume she fills up her vehicle twice a month at a cost of around $40 a tank. So, $80. Fair?

315 - 80 = 235

But, what's left? Well, not much in terms of mandatory expenses. For the purposes of this, I will assume she owns her vehicle, and if she doesn't, that is something she should focus on correcting immediately, because a car payment is something she truly can't afford. However (and I'll get into this in a few lines), this is something that is easy for her to remedy.

Otherwise, there's your budget. That leaves around $235 for her to spend on "luxury items" such as kids activities, shopping, etc...per month.

But, note this budget does NOT include 2 paychecks of income. The months she gets the extra float income, due to budgeting without it, will be extra sweet (and should largely go into savings, if she's thinking correctly). Also, it does NOT include her annual tax credit of around $8k (I touched on this earlier).

This is why I say she can easily rectify her situation regarding a vehicle. Having around 10k to purchase a decent used vehicle in the Chattanooga market is pretty easy.

It also doesn't include any child support payments she may or may not be getting. Considering her ex seems to be a pill popper, I can't presume he's paying anything. But, that doesn't necessarily mean that is the case. However, for the sake of this exercise, I have left that out.

So, is she living high on the hog? Nope. But, tossing together a budget for her where she still has disposable income each month and also has 3 times a year where she gets a boost in income (tax refund and two un-budgeted paychecks per year)...yeah, she's not as hand to mouth as you may think.

She really has two options to modify her situation. The first is to focus on increasing her income. This could be through a variety of methods, be it part time work, work from home opportunities, etc...there are too many options out there to list. The second is to focus on lowering her monthly expenses, or at least turning them into an investment. With that, I'm referring to her saving up her tax refunds for a few years preparing herself to purchase a house.

She seems a very strong person, with a kind heart. I feel for her situation (though, all of it, was through her own life choices). You may consider this a callous analysis, but it is not. It's a straight-forward one, because money doesn't solve anything if it's poorly applied.

Many times what the "working poor" need is education in how to manage their finances, not just giving them more money.

What "luxury" items would you buy with the $235 that is left over?

 

[englanddg]

What "luxury" items would you buy with the $235 that is left over?

Well, lets see. You could buy nicer foods (say, have a nice steak dinner). You could eat out. You could go to a movie or two (more if you are frugal with the snacks). You could go to Walmart and get quite a bit of stuff for $235.

You could save up for 3 months and buy a 50" LCD television. You could not save at all and get a 36 inch one every month.

You could go to Ikea and buy furniture (there isn't one in Chattanooga, but a trip to Atlanta could be a fun day trip).

There's quite a bit you can do with $235.

Heck, if you saved half of it for a year and then applied the two unbudgeted paychecks, and a bit from the tax refund, you could even take your kids to WDW for 7 days EVERY YEAR with a Deluxe Dining Plan.

(cost for a week in August for Pop with 8 day tickets with WP&M and Park Hoppers plus DDlx Dining = 3957.17)

3957.17 - (701 * 2) - (117.50 * 12) = $1145.17 needed from the 8k tax refund.

 

[BuddyThomas]

Well, lets see. You could buy nicer foods (say, have a nice steak dinner). You could eat out. You could go to a movie or two (more if you are frugal with the snacks). You could go to Walmart and get quite a bit of stuff for $235.

You could save up for 3 months and buy a 50" LCD television. You could not save at all and get a 36 inch one every month.

You could go to Ikea and buy furniture (there isn't one in Chattanooga, but a trip to Atlanta could be a fun day trip).

There's quite a bit you can do with $235.

Heck, if you saved half of it for a year and then applied the two unbudgeted paychecks, and a bit from the tax refund, you could even take your kids to WDW for 7 days EVERY YEAR with a Deluxe Dining Plan.

(cost for a week in August for Pop with 8 day tickets with WP&M and Park Hoppers plus DDlx Dining = 3957.17)

3957.17 - (701 * 2) - (117.50 * 12) = $1145.17 needed from the 8k tax refund.

My question was actually what would You spend it on, not what anyone could spend it on, but never mind. The "throw them a steak, throw them a movie" answer basically tells me all I needed to know. Oh boy, another thread I need to stop visiting because it makes me so angry, just like Blackfish did before it was locked.

 

[Andrew C]

You don't understand, John, there's a big contingent of libertarians ans libertarian wannabes following this thread that essentially thinks that if you're not a millionaire, it's your fault. Don't like your job, get another one. LIKE your job but think it adds more value than what the company assigns to it viz a viz your pay stub and want to try to negotiate for a better wage? Why, that's just code for "I don't like my job," so get another. They believe that if you think you're worth more, the solution is to find someone willing to pay you what you think you're worth, but to try to get it from your current employer is socialism and reverse-tyranny. So find another job, get a second job, sell Grit America's Family Newspaper, but Heaven forbid you try to organize to get a better wage. Then Disney might close down or something.

Who on your are you talking about? I am thinking you are exaggerating the position of others just a bit in a negative way. You sound like a politician.

 

[englanddg]

My question was actually what would You spend it on, not what anyone could spend it on, but never mind. The "throw them a steak, throw them a movie" answer basically tells me all I needed to know. Oh boy, another thread I need to stop visiting because it makes me so angry, just like Blackfish did before it was locked.

I'm not sure what you mean. "Throw them a steak? Throw them a movie?" Disposable income for luxury spending is anything you have left over after the basics required to survive are met. That means, housing, food and in most cases transportation.

Any spending beyond that is truly discretionary, so you can do with it what you wish.

I lived pretty much this exact budget with my ex, after I took a pretty steep salary loss. She didn't work, but we lived this way for 2 years.

And yes, I spent our extra money on various things. Trips to Chuck E Cheese or Putt Putt for the kiddo, and once a month I'd buy some really nice steaks. We all enjoyed steak night. It's still my kid's favorite "special" food.

We had SNAP, with a monthly benefit of around $300 a month. We lived in a rented single wide with monthly rent of $250 a month (which meant we had a lot MORE disposable income then the budget I proposed, but my child also wasn't school aged).

We had cable TV, but it was the lowest package possible so I could get internet (it was imperative for my work).

I really don't understand your point or concern. You presented this woman's issues, I proposed a solution (regulated budgeting), and now you are upset?

 

[CDavid]

Well, lets see. You could buy nicer foods (say, have a nice steak dinner). You could eat out. You could go to a movie or two (more if you are frugal with the snacks). You could go to Walmart and get quite a bit of stuff for $235.

You could save up for 3 months and buy a 50" LCD television. You could not save at all and get a 36 inch one every month.

You could go to Ikea and buy furniture (there isn't one in Chattanooga, but a trip to Atlanta could be a fun day trip).

There's quite a bit you can do with $235.

Heck, if you saved half of it for a year and then applied the two unbudgeted paychecks, and a bit from the tax refund, you could even take your kids to WDW for 7 days EVERY YEAR with a Deluxe Dining Plan.

(cost for a week in August for Pop with 8 day tickets with WP&M and Park Hoppers plus DDlx Dining = 3957.17)

3957.17 - (701 * 2) - (117.50 * 12) = $1145.17 needed from the 8k tax refund.

Or, instead of buying "luxury" items like TV's and eating out, you could spend the money on more practical items that are necessities.

For instance, you may want to have running water in your apartment (I didn't see water included or accounted for). Or you could get that "low value" car repaired when - being a low value car - it inevitably breaks down (how about tires, or an oil change?). Does that apartment include a washer/dryer, or do you have to pay for a laundry? Finally, are we sure she doesn't have any other bills, like a car payment already committed? In fact, does she even qualify for Tenncare, or just her children (Not sure - but I thought I read Tennessee kicked most adults off the program some years back. I hope I'm mistaken)?

You could also choose to buy toiletries and other (necessary) household items, school supplies for the kids, clothes for the family, and furnishings for the apartment (some of which is necessary - as things don't last forever). Then there are the dozens of (mostly minor) expenses which I'm forgetting of the top of my head, but which add up.

Point is, she doesn't have $235 left over in your budget. She's probably in the hole by that much or more.

I haven't seen the documentary, but I'm going by what's posted above, so please feel free to correct any mistakes I've made.

 

[GoofGoof]

Yes. Because slanted documentaries that cherry pick a specific story (the full title of the movie is "Paycheck to Paycheck - The Life and Times of Katrina Gilbert) are a great place to get (mis)information.

I've lived paycheck to paycheck. I also haven't done it for many years. But, controlling my expenses and strong financial planning was key.

http://www.slate.com/blogs/xx_facto...r_finds_the_poster_child_for_poverty_for.html

Lets examine her situation, for a moment, real finances, shall we?

First, she lives near Chattanooga, and she has three children, ranging in ages from what appears to be age 5 to age 9 (guessing).

She makes $9.49 an hour. Works 40 hours a week. Her pre-tax income is 19,739.20.

Post tax, with available credits, her net federal tax liability is 0. Her FICA liability is $1,510.05. Her credit refund is $8,092. So, her net annual income after federal taxes is $26,321.15.

Lets look at cost of living. She lives in Chattanooga, TN.

A quick search shows she could get a 3BR apartment / townhome in that market for around $650 a month (not the trailer she's shown to be living in...I certainly hope she's not paying $650 for that. I've lived in similar places before, and I'd guess she's paying more like $200 - 300 for that...but, we're gonna do a budget for her, and her kids need a nice community with good schools. So, $650 it is!

This is an example of a place that offers that...and it's new construction! And it offers free wifi (no internet bill!)

Not too shabby!

http://www.altonplaceapts.com/

So, lets stick with her pre-tax post deduction (paycheck) income. TN has no income tax, so her net pay per paycheck after FICA mandatory withholdings (as she qualifies on her W-4 for 11 exemptions, so she has no Federal Withholding outside of FICA) is 701.12, assuming she is paid biweekly.

This means that most months she'll have around $1400 to work with, and 2 months out of the year she'll have around $2100. But, since 10 months out of the year, she'll have $1400, we'll run with that.

$1400 - $650 rent = $750

Ok, now utilities. Chattanooga buys their power from TVA, and are tied to their base rates...but, she should expect an average power bill of around $120 for 1000 KWh. (source http://www.mlgw.com/images/content/files/pdf/UtilityRatesComparison.pdf)

Toss in a prepaid flat rate MetroPCS cel phone for $40 per month with unlimited text and talk and 500 MB of data.

$750 - 120 - 40 = $590

Getting skimpy...we still haven't eaten yet!

However, she does easily qualify for SNAP (Supplemental Nutritional Assistance Program). TN doesn't offer an online calculator, but using the federal SNAP benefits calculator, she is eligible for around $400 in benefits a month.

So, $100 a week in groceries as credit. Lets assume she spends $150. So...

$590 - $200 = $390.

Now, here's where it gets tough. To live and work in Chattanooga, the CARTA system isn't really going to do much for you. So, she will need a car. Average car insurance rates in TN are fairly low. Since she's out of the under 25 risk pool, and assuming she drives a low risk, low value vehicle, and has a clean driving record.

She should be able to get a monthly payment of around $75 a month (state average is $55, but I'm putting buffer in there).

390 - 75 = 315

Getting VERY tight. We'll also assume she fills up her vehicle twice a month at a cost of around $40 a tank. So, $80. Fair?

315 - 80 = 235

But, what's left? Well, not much in terms of mandatory expenses. Healthcare isn't really a concern because her family easily qualifies for Tenncare.

For the purposes of this, I will assume she owns her vehicle, and if she doesn't, that is something she should focus on correcting immediately, because a car payment is something she truly can't afford. However (and I'll get into this in a few lines), this is something that is easy for her to remedy.

Otherwise, there's your budget. That leaves around $235 for her to spend on "luxury items" such as kids activities, shopping, etc...per month.

But, note this budget does NOT include 2 paychecks of income. The months she gets the extra float income, due to budgeting without it, will be extra sweet (and should largely go into savings, if she's thinking correctly). Also, it does NOT include her annual tax credit of around $8k (I touched on this earlier).

This is why I say she can easily rectify her situation regarding a vehicle. Having around 10k to purchase a decent used vehicle in the Chattanooga market is pretty easy.

It also doesn't include any child support payments she may or may not be getting. Considering her ex seems to be a pill popper, I can't presume he's paying anything. But, that doesn't necessarily mean that is the case. However, for the sake of this exercise, I have left that out.

So, is she living high on the hog? Nope. But, tossing together a budget for her where she still has disposable income each month and also has 3 times a year where she gets a boost in income (tax refund and two un-budgeted paychecks per year)...yeah, she's not as hand to mouth as you may think.

She really has two options to modify her situation. The first is to focus on increasing her income. This could be through a variety of methods, be it part time work, work from home opportunities, etc...there are too many options out there to list. The second is to focus on lowering her monthly expenses, or at least turning them into an investment. With that, I'm referring to her saving up her tax refunds for a few years preparing herself to purchase a house.

She seems a very strong person, with a kind heart. I feel for her situation (though, all of it, was through her own life choices). You may consider this a callous analysis, but it is not. It's a straight-forward one, because money doesn't solve anything if it's poorly applied.

Many times what the "working poor" need is education in how to manage their finances, not just giving them more money.

This is a pretty nice job budgeting. A few things to consider adding.
1). Clothing. She needs clothes to wear to work. The kids need clothing and shoes. Kids wear out shoes fast. I suppose you can get some things from a thrift shop or hand me downs, but things like underwear and shoes are best bought new. She could take the money for clothing from the other money.

2). Childcare. She needs someone to watch the kids while she works. Maybe there is assistance available. Even so she may need to hire a babysitter from time to time.

3). She will also likely need some budget for food. When the oldest has a soccer game at 10:30am and the middle kid has dance practice at 11:30am and the youngest has his soccer at 1pm there's no time to stop home for food. They could pack a lunch, but it's more likely they stop at McDs for some happy meals and coffee for mom. I only have 2 kids and there are 2 of us parents, but we still need to do the eat on the run thing a lot of weekends. Does your food budget include medication. Over the counter stuff like Tylenol and toothpaste, not prescriptions. They may not be covered by an assistance program.

4). This will probably be controversial, but how about things like birthday or Christmas presents for the kids. A birthday cake, a Christmas tree. You could say those aren't essentials and aren't needed, but they are part of having a quality of life. It's easy to say do without when the situation is temporary, but not everyone in this situation is going to increase their earnings significantly. It's hard for someone, especially a parent, to watch their kids go without things that other kids have on a regular basis.

5). Emergency spending. Crap happens. We had an ice storm and half a tree fell on my car. It was totaled. I am fortunate to have money in savings and decent insurance. Kids break things...a lot. There are going to be things outside of the norm that have to be replaced.


Overall, I think your budget is a great starting point for someone. Unfortunately they may not have anyone in their lives to give them this advice and since you didn't budget anything for Internet access they can't read it here. One of the things that is missing from the whole system is helping people learn to build a budget and stick to it.

 

[slappy magoo]

- Clothes? For herself and three kids?
- Shoes? For herself and three kids? I'm sure she can Goodwill it and save some coin for clothes, but shoes and undergarments, more responsible to buy new.
-More gas than two fillups a month? Seriously. It's in the article that she drives her children "hours" a few times a week to visit their dad. Unless you consider visiting dad an unaffordable luxury, and maybe you do, who am I to know? But therefore she has a car, so she's filling up at least once a week. So another 80 bucks a month there? At least? I mean, I drive a Forrester mostly 15 miles a day, to the train station and back, errands during the weekend, rarely more than 100 miles a week, and I pay about 100/month for gas. I can't imagine her getting by on 80.
- Medical? I know she qualifies for Tenncare but I don't know if she has no copays for medical services that aren't free or qualifies for no copays. But even 5 bucks here and there adds up, especially if you're raising 3 kids alone. And not having yet seen the doc (nor have you, I presume) I don't know if any of her kids have physical problems that necessitate more frequent medical care. Or with a drug addicted dad, perhaps a psychiatrist is needed.
- Days off? If one of her kids gets in trouble at school, or needs to go to a doctor, as an hourly employee I'm not sure how many sick days or personal days, if any, she gets. But with two kids myself, I can tell you that you can easily burn through your allotted sick days just taking care of your own, and then you're out of luck if you get sick yourself. I'm lucky that I'm not an hourly employee and can often take my work home. And they cut me slack because there are many days where I'll put in 10-12 hour days when meeting a deadline. But an hourly employee might not get that kind of slack, especially as a nursing home assistant. Because when she can't show up, someone else might have to, and has to get paid, as opposed to her coworkers picking up her slack.
- After care? Unless the school provides for it, I'm not sure if she needs someone to watch the kids or she has a relative who does it for free, but if not, that's money gone.
- Car repair? I know she shouldn't have a car, but unless her job is close to home and school, and unless the kids can do without seeing Dad, she probably needs it. And if the car isn't newish, the maintenance and repairs come out of her own pockets. Even just routine maintenance, oil changes, tune-ups, brake alignment, can be a couple of hundred a year. If a major repair is necessary, then she either has to determine if she spends the money fixing the problem or assuming the cost of buying a new car.
- Bulletptoof vests? Not for nothing, but according to http://www.neighborhoodscout.com/tn/chattanooga/crime/ Chattanooga is a pretty toddlin' town, safer than only 5% of cities in the US. Which makes me wonder if she lives in a suburb for the sake of her kids, which means definitely needs a car. Which would mean she's definitely burning through more fuel than you allot. I'm not sure I'd want my or your kids living in the Alton Place Apartments, so I wouldn't so blithely suggest that for a mom raising three kids alone.

Look, englanddg, you did some admirable number-crunching. But the thing about living paycheck to paycheck is about the unkowns, those costs that come out of nowhere and take away whatever savings you managed to scrape together. It's not living outside your means, it's living right in them without a lot of wiggle room. And for all the expenses you didn't consider, I'm sure someone else will come up with a bunch *I* didn't consider that would eat out a big chunk of her extra paychecks and refund each year.


But of course, it's her fault for not looking for a better job with her scads of free time and desire to get an education and other such horseswoggle.

 

[englanddg]

Or, instead of buying "luxury" items like TV's and eating out, you could spend the money on more practical items that are necessities.

For instance, you may want to have running water in your apartment (I didn't see water included or accounted for). Or you could get that "low value" car repaired when - being a low value car - it inevitably breaks down (how about tires, or an oil change?). Does that apartment include a washer/dryer, or do you have to pay for a laundry? Finally, are we sure she doesn't have any other bills, like a car payment already committed? In fact, does she even qualify for Tenncare, or just her children (Not sure - but I thought I read Tennessee kicked most adults off the program some years back. I hope I'm mistaken)?

You could also choose to buy toiletries and other (necessary) household items, school supplies for the kids, clothes for the family, and furnishings for the apartment (some of which is necessary - as things don't last forever). Then there are the dozens of (mostly minor) expenses which I'm forgetting of the top of my head, but which add up.

Point is, she doesn't have $235 left over in your budget. She's probably in the hole by that much or more.

I haven't seen the documentary, but I'm going by what's posted above, so please feel free to correct any mistakes I've made.

Water is generally included with apartment complexes. But, what is hard to find out without actually contacting the complex itself is which utilities (water, gas (if applicable), garbage) are included in the rent and what aren't.

For example, for my apartment, all utilities are included (including cable TV) in the rent with the exception of electricity. That is pretty common to find. Though, in the past few years, many landlords have moved to a third party billing service that bills utilities on top of the rent, but bundles it in with the rent. This sounds confusing, because it is. Basically, the billing service says "you owe x in utilities", and then the landlord collects that as part of your rent. As a result, for example, my rent varies slightly month to month. It's rather...annoying, frankly.

As far as the unanticipated expenses (or even anticipated ones like clothes and school supplies), you should remember that the budget I threw together includes nearly 9500 in annually unaccounted funds. I think that easily covers these expenses, assuming the money isn't blown on other things the moment it comes through the door.

Healthcare is certainly an issue. Tenncare easily covers all her children, but you are correct, about 6 years ago or so they started dumping adults off the program because...well...the program is bankrupt. She does meet the initial qualifications, since she is a caregiver of minors who are directly related to her and also reside with her...however, that doesn't mean she'll get it. This is where the federal individual mandate can really come to bite her in the backside, as even obtaining single coverage for herself could easily eat the $235 per month in premium.

Getting into what subsidies she would or wouldn't qualify for, though, is a very complex process, and one that is hard to toss out in a forum post alone. There are just too many variables to consider. I would think it's safe to assume, with three children, she would qualify. But if not, yes, she could easily lose that $235 monthly float in federally mandated health insurance premiums.

My point with the exercise is simply this...

It isn't living high on the hog. She's certainly got life stresses, compounded by being a loving mother and caregiver to not just one, but three, children...potentially a deadbeat dad, list goes on.

But, that doesn't mean that her income situation isn't livable. It most certainly is. I'll note, her largest monthly expense on the budget I did is rent. I did this by choosing nice places with higher rents. She could easily cut back a few more hundred a month with a variety of options. And, note, I didn't include Section 8 eligibility at all, or rent controlled places that set their rent based upon your situation, at all...so, that is truly also a variable.

Which, goes back to a point that has been brought up a lot. What is considered a decent "living wage"?

I will say this. While I'm not fond of federal minimum wage laws, I would say that a living wage tied to CPI or something (similar to how Oregon) does it, is intriguing. However, I would want to see some other things done to make it truly as simple a system as it should be. Such as, the phasing out of all assistance programs and tax reform (specifically the credit system).

I'll gladly get into why I feel the current system for the lowest income brackets is wholly regressive and unfair, but most people want their cake and eat it too. They want to maintain the current federal (and through proxy state) programs. This is unsustainable.

There must be give and take. I, frankly, would start with the current tax system. It sets people up to fail, by (and my budget shows this) forcing them to live tightly, and then injecting them with a massive amount of income that they rarely know how to handle once a year.

8k all at once in the spring to someone who lives off of 1.4k a month is like giving a cinnibun to a sugar starved diabetic and expecting them not to consume it all at once. It's sheer lunacy.

There is a reason why first quarter consumer numbers in retail are generally phenomenal. It has very little to do with actual consumer choice, rather it's a spending splurge from people who now think they have "disposable monies", when really, they don't.

I could go on a very long time on this topic, but I'll stop for now.

 

[BigTxEars]

Apparently the woman who is the subject of the doc makes $9.49 an hour and is barely getting by.

I feel like I am watching Fox News with some of these posts. And why is a documentary you have not seen a silly tv show? How I Met Your Mother is a silly tv show. A serious film about a serious issue is not.

I have seen enough documentaries to know how this one is going to go. It will tell at most the story of two families. They will be heart tugging stories of good hard working people. It will not in anyway shape or form show the story of two families where the earners work as little as possible, do not try to advance at work in any way, miss work often and then stand around complaining about how they don't make enough. Here is a hint, you put forth the effort and then you earn the money, not the the other way around....like I said a number of people are their own worst enemy.....This show will not be balanced in anyway, it will be slanted therefore it's silly to pose it as some type of statement on life in America. Let me know if I am wrong please, if I don't hear from you I will understand. It certainly is not a serious TV show, serious would look at both sides of a story.

I would add if you like start you own business and pay your folks whatever you wage above federal law you want to, nobody will say a thing I promise. I think you have that right, I think Disney has the same. If you don't think Disney is a "good" company based not their pay practices then stop going, easy as that. Buy to try and verbally bully Disney into raising pay because you think they underpay while you still support them with your money is a bit hypocritical IMO.

 

[englanddg]

Overall, I think your budget is a great starting point for someone. Unfortunately they may not have anyone in their lives to give them this advice and since you didn't budget anything for Internet access they can't read it here. One of the things that is missing from the whole system is helping people learn to build a budget and stick to it.

I agree with all your points (and others made them).

The budget is just that, a starting budget. To read it and think that I'm saying she's in the black $200 some odd dollars every month is missing the point.

This is how you start your planning. Then you fine tune and hone it around these details and concerns.

However, this covers the basics. She has a place to live (that's rather nice), she actually has free wifi (which is VERY nice that the complex offers this), her kids are in a good school district living in a decent neighborhood, they eat (budget was $600 a month with $400 in SNAP), and she has transportation to continue the income stream.

It also includes nearly $9500 per annum in unallocated funds + $235 per month...that's a lot of money to account for the concerns you brought up.

 

[BigTxEars]

- Clothes? For herself and three kids?
- Shoes? For herself and three kids? I'm sure she can Goodwill it and save some coin for clothes, but shoes and undergarments, more responsible to buy new.
-More gas than two fillups a month? Seriously. It's in the article that she drives her children "hours" a few times a week to visit their dad. Unless you consider visiting dad an unaffordable luxury, and maybe you do, who am I to know? But therefore she has a car, so she's filling up at least once a week. So another 80 bucks a month there? At least? I mean, I drive a Forrester mostly 15 miles a day, to the train station and back, errands during the weekend, rarely more than 100 miles a week, and I pay about 100/month for gas. I can't imagine her getting by on 80.
- Medical? I know she qualifies for Tenncare but I don't know if she has no copays for medical services that aren't free or qualifies for no copays. But even 5 bucks here and there adds up, especially if you're raising 3 kids alone. And not having yet seen the doc (nor have you, I presume) I don't know if any of her kids have physical problems that necessitate more frequent medical care. Or with a drug addicted dad, perhaps a psychiatrist is needed.
- Days off? If one of her kids gets in trouble at school, or needs to go to a doctor, as an hourly employee I'm not sure how many sick days or personal days, if any, she gets. But with two kids myself, I can tell you that you can easily burn through your allotted sick days just taking care of your own, and then you're out of luck if you get sick yourself. I'm lucky that I'm not an hourly employee and can often take my work home. And they cut me slack because there are many days where I'll put in 10-12 hour days when meeting a deadline. But an hourly employee might not get that kind of slack, especially as a nursing home assistant. Because when she can't show up, someone else might have to, and has to get paid, as opposed to her coworkers picking up her slack.
- After care? Unless the school provides for it, I'm not sure if she needs someone to watch the kids or she has a relative who does it for free, but if not, that's money gone.
- Car repair? I know she shouldn't have a car, but unless her job is close to home and school, and unless the kids can do without seeing Dad, she probably needs it. And if the car isn't newish, the maintenance and repairs come out of her own pockets. Even just routine maintenance, oil changes, tune-ups, brake alignment, can be a couple of hundred a year. If a major repair is necessary, then she either has to determine if she spends the money fixing the problem or assuming the cost of buying a new car.
- Bulletptoof vests? Not for nothing, but according to http://www.neighborhoodscout.com/tn/chattanooga/crime/ Chattanooga is a pretty toddlin' town, safer than only 5% of cities in the US. Which makes me wonder if she lives in a suburb for the sake of her kids, which means definitely needs a car. Which would mean she's definitely burning through more fuel than you allot. I'm not sure I'd want my or your kids living in the Alton Place Apartments, so I wouldn't so blithely suggest that for a mom raising three kids alone.

Look, englanddg, you did some admirable number-crunching. But the thing about living paycheck to paycheck is about the unkowns, those costs that come out of nowhere and take away whatever savings you managed to scrape together. It's not living outside your means, it's living right in them without a lot of wiggle room. And for all the expenses you didn't consider, I'm sure someone else will come up with a bunch *I* didn't consider that would eat out a big chunk of her extra paychecks and refund each year.


But of course, it's her fault for not looking for a better job with her scads of free time and desire to get an education and other such horseswoggle.

How is any of that a employers responsibility? In any way? I work for them, I don't want them to raise me as if I were a child again. Personal responsibility, it's a pretty big deal down here in Texas

This young lady already gets a bunch of help from the tax payers, she needs more from her employer as well? I mean she adds no money into the tax system, she in fact draws a lot of money out of the tax system right? Is it crazy to expect her to work for a wage that turns a profit for her employer? How much do we owe her exactly? I mean if others including yourself want to help her with money then no one is stopping you, give as much as your want. But try and keep your hands out of other peoples pockets, it's not polite.

 

[GoofGoof]

I agree with all your points (and others made them).

The budget is just that, a starting budget. To read it and think that I'm saying she's in the black $200 some odd dollars every month is missing the point.

This is how you start your planning. Then you fine tune and hone it around these details and concerns.

However, this covers the basics. She has a place to live (that's rather nice), she actually has free wifi (which is VERY nice that the complex offers this), her kids are in a good school district living in a decent neighborhood, they eat (budget was $600 a month with $400 in SNAP), and she has transportation to continue the income stream.

It also includes nearly $9500 per annum in unallocated funds + $235...that's a lot of money to account for the concerns you brought up.

She can probably make it work. The $9,500 left over to cover a lot of the misc stuff which primarily comes from the EIC really helps a lot. To the people who were calling the EIC a windfall for lazy parasites this shows you exactly why it exists and why it's needed.

 

[BuddyThomas]

I have seen enough documentaries to know how this one is going to go. It will tell at most the story of two families. They will be heart tugging stories of good hard working people. It will not in anyway shape or form show the story of two families where the earners work as little as possible, do not try to advance at work in any way, miss work often and then stand around complaining about how they don't make enough. Here is a hint, you put forth the effort and then you earn the money, not the the other way around....like I said a number of people are their own worst enemy.....This show will not be balanced in anyway, it will be slanted therefore it's silly to pose it as some type of statement on life in America. Let me know if I am wrong please, if I don't hear from you I will understand. It certainly is not a serious TV show, serious would look at both sides of a story.

I would add if you like start you own business and pay your folks whatever you wage above federal law you want to, nobody will say a thing I promise. I think you have that right, I think Disney has the same. If you don't think Disney is a "good" company based not their pay practices then stop going, easy as that. Buy to try and verbally bully Disney into raising pay because you think they underpay while you still support them with your money is a bit hypocritical IMO.

Well, here is a thought: All those in favor of Disney employees receiving low pay are not allowed to whine and complain about substandard service. Just a thought. Obviously not a rule.

 

[BigTxEars]

Water is generally included with apartment complexes. But, what is hard to find out without actually contacting the complex itself is which utilities (water, gas (if applicable), garbage) are included in the rent and what aren't.

For example, for my apartment, all utilities are included (including cable TV) in the rent with the exception of electricity. That is pretty common to find. Though, in the past few years, many landlords have moved to a third party billing service that bills utilities on top of the rent, but bundles it in with the rent. This sounds confusing, because it is. Basically, the billing service says "you owe x in utilities", and then the landlord collects that as part of your rent. As a result, for example, my rent varies slightly month to month. It's rather...annoying, frankly.

As far as the unanticipated expenses (or even anticipated ones like clothes and school supplies), you should remember that the budget I threw together includes nearly 9500 in annually unaccounted funds. I think that easily covers these expenses, assuming the money isn't blown on other things the moment it comes through the door.

Healthcare is certainly an issue. Tenncare easily covers all her children, but you are correct, about 6 years ago or so they started dumping adults off the program because...well...the program is bankrupt. She does meet the initial qualifications, since she is a caregiver of minors who are directly related to her and also reside with her...however, that doesn't mean she'll get it. This is where the federal individual mandate can really come to bite her in the backside, as even obtaining single coverage for herself could easily eat the $235 per month in premium.

Getting into what subsidies she would or wouldn't qualify for, though, is a very complex process, and one that is hard to toss out in a forum post alone. There are just too many variables to consider. I would think it's safe to assume, with three children, she would qualify. But if not, yes, she could easily lose that $235 monthly float in federally mandated health insurance premiums.

My point with the exercise is simply this...

It isn't living high on the hog. She's certainly got life stresses, compounded by being a loving mother and caregiver to not just one, but three, children...potentially a deadbeat dad, list goes on.

But, that doesn't mean that her income situation isn't livable. It most certainly is. I'll note, her largest monthly expense on the budget I did is rent. I did this by choosing nice places with higher rents. She could easily cut back a few more hundred a month with a variety of options. And, note, I didn't include Section 8 eligibility at all, or rent controlled places that set their rent based upon your situation, at all...so, that is truly also a variable.

Which, goes back to a point that has been brought up a lot. What is considered a decent "living wage"?

I will say this. While I'm not fond of federal minimum wage laws, I would say that a living wage tied to CPI or something (similar to how Oregon) does it, is intriguing. However, I would want to see some other things done to make it truly as simple a system as it should be. Such as, the phasing out of all assistance programs and tax reform (specifically the credit system).

I'll gladly get into why I feel the current system for the lowest income brackets is wholly regressive and unfair, but most people want their cake and eat it too. They want to maintain the current federal (and through proxy state) programs. This is unsustainable.

There must be give and take. I, frankly, would start with the current tax system. It sets people up to fail, by (and my budget shows this) forcing them to live tightly, and then injecting them with a massive amount of income that they rarely know how to handle once a year.

8k all at once in the spring to someone who lives off of 1.4k a month is like giving a cinnibun to a sugar starved diabetic and expecting them not to consume it all at once. It's sheer lunacy.

There is a reason why first quarter consumer numbers in retail are generally phenomenal. It has very little to do with actual consumer choice, rather it's a spending splurge from people who now think they have "disposable monies", when really, they don't.

I could go on a very long time on this topic, but I'll stop for now.

The tax system is a joke. How is it logical to get a rebate for more than you have paid? How does a budget ever balance when more go outs than goes in, I think we all would love that to work at home.

Flat tax is the only fair tax, although I think a simple flat rate increase to sales tax system is fair as well if they abolish the IRS. Progressive taxes are unfair to the very letter of the definition. Nothing like penalizing success to drive effort.....

 

[englanddg]

- Clothes? For herself and three kids?
- Shoes? For herself and three kids? I'm sure she can Goodwill it and save some coin for clothes, but shoes and undergarments, more responsible to buy new.

The budget has nearly 1/3 of her annual income as fluff. I think this easily covers this detail.

-More gas than two fillups a month? Seriously. It's in the article that she drives her children "hours" a few times a week to visit their dad. Unless you consider visiting dad an unaffordable luxury, and maybe you do, who am I to know? But therefore she has a car, so she's filling up at least once a week. So another 80 bucks a month there? At least? I mean, I drive a Forrester mostly 15 miles a day, to the train station and back, errands during the weekend, rarely more than 100 miles a week, and I pay about 100/month for gas. I can't imagine her getting by on 80.

Yes, this is her choice. If he's not paying child support or contributing in any way (which my budget assumes he is not), then I don't think asking him to help cover the gas expenses is outrageous for her. While it may be nice to have the father involved in the children's lives, there are concerns above and beyond that. The one telling factor, if he really wants to see his children so badly, why doesn't he drive to see them from time to time and shoulder the expense himself? Of course, I do not know the details of their relationship, but, that doesn't change the fact that it is certainly a choice, therefore a luxury expense, not a mandatory one. And that's how she should think of it.

- Medical? I know she qualifies for Tenncare but I don't know if she has no copays for medical services that aren't free or qualifies for no copays. But even 5 bucks here and there adds up, especially if you're raising 3 kids alone. And not having yet seen the doc (nor have you, I presume) I don't know if any of her kids have physical problems that necessitate more frequent medical care. Or with a drug addicted dad, perhaps a psychiatrist is needed.

Again, 1/3 of her budget is float. And these are variables that, without examining her exact situation in detail (really only something she can do properly), cannot be accounted for. That's why there's float in that budget!

- Days off? If one of her kids gets in trouble at school, or needs to go to a doctor, as an hourly employee I'm not sure how many sick days or personal days, if any, she gets. But with two kids myself, I can tell you that you can easily burn through your allotted sick days just taking care of your own, and then you're out of luck if you get sick yourself. I'm lucky that I'm not an hourly employee and can often take my work home. And they cut me slack because there are many days where I'll put in 10-12 hour days when meeting a deadline. But an hourly employee might not get that kind of slack, especially as a nursing home assistant. Because when she can't show up, someone else might have to, and has to get paid, as opposed to her coworkers picking up her slack.

Again, that's nothing that either of us can predict without knowing the employment benefits offered by her employer...which we do not know. I can tell you this, I have a staff of hourly employees who work for me. We don't grand stratified leave (meaning, we don't discriminate between vacation and sick leave...it's all one big pool). They get 15 days (120 hours) a year of leave (with supervisor approval) if they are between 12 and 60 months of employment. Under 12, they also get 15, but rather than being granted, it is accrued starting the date of employment. Those with over 60 months with the company get 21 days (168 hours).

What her employer does, however, is up to them.

- After care? Unless the school provides for it, I'm not sure if she needs someone to watch the kids or she has a relative who does it for free, but if not, that's money gone.

Well, first, I didn't include child care reimbursements / programs / tax breaks into any of the calculations, because again, this is difficult to assume. But, as a side step, this is one of the strongest arguments I know to change the way our school systems are scheduled from their traditional agrarian schedules.

- Car repair? I know she shouldn't have a car, but unless her job is close to home and school, and unless the kids can do without seeing Dad, she probably needs it. And if the car isn't newish, the maintenance and repairs come out of her own pockets. Even just routine maintenance, oil changes, tune-ups, brake alignment, can be a couple of hundred a year. If a major repair is necessary, then she either has to determine if she spends the money fixing the problem or assuming the cost of buying a new car.

I did account for automobile insurance as a standard monthly expense. I know the Chattanooga area well, and she can't live there without a car and reasonably maintain employment. Just not possible (like most cities).

For the rest, well, I left ~1/3 of her annual income as float.

- Bulletptoof vests? Not for nothing, but according to http://www.neighborhoodscout.com/tn/chattanooga/crime/ Chattanooga is a pretty toddlin' town, safer than only 5% of cities in the US. Which makes me wonder if she lives in a suburb for the sake of her kids, which means definitely needs a car. Which would mean she's definitely burning through more fuel than you allot. I'm not sure I'd want my or your kids living in the Alton Place Apartments, so I wouldn't so blithely suggest that for a mom raising three kids alone.

Bah, ain't got nuthin on Memphis. But, yeah. She could move out. The rent gets even cheaper then!

Look, englanddg, you did some admirable number-crunching. But the thing about living paycheck to paycheck is about the unkowns, those costs that come out of nowhere and take away whatever savings you managed to scrape together. It's not living outside your means, it's living right in them without a lot of wiggle room. And for all the expenses you didn't consider, I'm sure someone else will come up with a bunch *I* didn't consider that would eat out a big chunk of her extra paychecks and refund each year.

I quite agree. But, then, this goes back to...what is the definition of a "living wage"? How much "wiggle room" is enough?

But of course, it's her fault for not looking for a better job with her scads of free time and desire to get an education and other such horseswoggle.

She doesn't have scads of free time for education or to find a better job. That's why she needs to batten down the financial hatches and make a longer term plan.

With 3 kids, combined with work, she is not afforded the luxury of choice. She has her situation, and must deal with it.

This isn't a bad thing. This isn't a good thing. It's merely a thing. And she must fight the fight she chose (through her life choices) to fight.

And, by winning that fight, there is much to be respected about her.

 

[CDavid]

There must be give and take. I, frankly, w, ould start with the current tax system. It sets people up to fail, by (and my budget shows this) forcing them to live tightly, and then injecting them with a massive amount of income that they rarely know how to handle once a year.

8k all at once in the spring to someone who lives off of 1.4k a month is like giving a cinnibun to a sugar starved diabetic and expecting them not to consume it all at once. It's sheer lunacy.

Indeed, but its even worse than that. I can personally think of at least two low income individuals I've known who received credit offers in the mail (from 'suspect' lenders) - but at loan-shark interest rates for someone on a too-tight budget (like you illustrated above). When you're trying to scrape up cash to put gas in the car, that has to be like throwing a life preserver to a drowning man, and they grab it; That's the worst thing they could do, of course, and now they have another payment they can't afford.

Of course, there is also the practical matter that major and/or unexpected expenses may not wait for the tax refund fairy to visit. And even then, you are right, people seldom know how to manage that sum all at once. You have exactly the right idea of developing a budget which can work based on what you have, but I think it is marginal - at best - if such a tight budget will work (for most people) in reality.

I thought about Section 8 after I posted, and for the example case above it could be what makes the difference (saves a few hundred per month, perhaps?). I'll also agree we need some basis for the minimum wage - which I'll argue is absolutely too low right now - rather than the politically compromised number we might expect - be it CPI or something else. Indeed, the woman above earns $2.24 more than the current minimum.

 

[BigTxEars]

Well, here is a thought: All those in favor of Disney employees receiving low pay are not allowed to whine and complain about substandard service. Just a thought. Obviously not a rule.

Who is in favor of anybody receiving low pay? I (and I think others) am in favor of companies being able to pay a fair market value without being made out as villians.

But I will play along, here is my thought. Instead of telling the Disney CMs that they will make more if they provide great service as in your model, we tell them provide great service and the promotions and more money will come then? You know the old work hard and get ahead instead of the handout mentality you seem to prefer.

Or better yet you build a multi billion dollar company and then pay your folks whatever you want. Then you would have some insight into the true expense / ratio they face, I would wager you do not have that insight now.

 

[BuddyThomas]

I have seen enough documentaries to know how this one is going to go. It will tell at most the story of two families. They will be heart tugging stories of good hard working people. It will not in anyway shape or form show the story of two families where the earners work as little as possible, do not try to advance at work in any way, miss work often and then stand around complaining about how they don't make enough. Here is a hint, you put forth the effort and then you earn the money, not the the other way around....like I said a number of people are their own worst enemy.....This show will not be balanced in anyway, it will be slanted therefore it's silly to pose it as some type of statement on life in America. Let me know if I am wrong please, if I don't hear from you I will understand. It certainly is not a serious TV show, serious would look at both sides of a story.

I would add if you like start you own business and pay your folks whatever you wage above federal law you want to, nobody will say a thing I promise. I think you have that right, I think Disney has the same. If you don't think Disney is a "good" company based not their pay practices then stop going, easy as that. Buy to try and verbally bully Disney into raising pay because you think they underpay while you still support them with your money is a bit hypocritical IMO.

Yeah, that's right. Just start your own business. That's the answer for the working poor. And no one is bullying Disney into anything. If you think Disney can be bullied into anything then I have a creaky bridge to sell you that leads to an operational River Country.