Workers want pay boost

[GoofGoof]

Instead of telling the Disney CMs that they will make more if they provide great service as in your model, we tell them provide great service and the promotions and more money will come then? You know the old work hard and get ahead instead of the handout mentality you seem to prefer.

These are union workers we are talking about. Their contracts are covered under collective bargaining agreements. Pay increases are not linked to level of service provided.

 

[BigTxEars]

These are union workers we are talking about. Their contracts are covered under collective bargaining agreements. Pay increases are not linked to level of service provided.

Nor are promotions...man.......unions are great......

 

[englanddg]

Indeed, but its even worse than that. I can personally think of at least two low income individuals I've known who received credit offers in the mail (from 'suspect' lenders) - but at loan-shark interest rates for someone on a too-tight budget (like you illustrated above). When you're trying to scrape up cash to put gas in the car, that has to be like throwing a life preserver to a drowning man, and they grab it; That's the worst thing they could do, of course, and now they have another payment they can't afford.

Of course, there is also the practical matter that major and/or unexpected expenses may not wait for the tax refund fairy to visit. And even then, you are right, people seldom know how to manage that sum all at once. You have exactly the right idea of developing a budget which can work based on what you have, but I think it is marginal - at best - if such a tight budget will work (for most people) in reality.

I thought about Section 8 after I posted, and for the example case above it could be what makes the difference (saves a few hundred per month, perhaps?). I'll also agree we need some basis for the minimum wage - which I'll argue is absolutely too low right now - rather than the politically compromised number we might expect - be it CPI or something else. Indeed, the woman above earns $2.24 more than the current minimum.

Ugh, don't get me started on predatory loans and "EZ" credit and all that crud.

Heck, the fact that people pay H&R Block tons of money to fill out their 1040EZ bugs the heck out of me!

 

[BigTxEars]

Lots of budget this and that on here. Just for the record her budget (or anybody's for that matter) are not my concern. I am not worried


Nor are promotions...man.......unions are great......

But that aside I think my point was made...reward behavior, don't try and buy it.

 

[englanddg]

These are union workers we are talking about. Their contracts are covered under collective bargaining agreements. Pay increases are not linked to level of service provided.

I am very leery of unions as a whole. This is one of the reasons why.

 

[BigTxEars]

Ugh, don't get me started on predatory loans and "EZ" credit and all that crud.

Heck, the fact that people pay H&R Block tons of money to fill out their 1040EZ bugs the heck out of me!

People are repsonsible for their own actions, bad loans, too much house for their income and excessive credit are their own fault. And let me tell you I learned this the hard hard way. But I never had anybody give me anything I did not agree too. All my fault, just as it is to the people who sign up for all of these types loans.

 

[GoofGoof]

Nor are promotions...man.......unions are great......

I'm not saying unions are great or not. The kind of jobs we are talking about don't have a lot of growth potential or room for advancement either way. Working harder isn't going to get you more money and may not get you promoted. There is a steep pyramid with many more base level workers than management.

 

[englanddg]

People are repsonsible for their own actions, bad loans, too much house for their income and excessive credit are their own fault. And let me tell you I learned this the hard hard way. But I never had anybody give me anything I did not agree too. All my fault, just as it is to the people who sign up for all of these types loans.

Yes. Which is what I thought as I sat through Moore's "Capitalism: A Love Story"...how many of those tragic stories, 4 - 6 years prior, were seen as successes? "I got to buy a great house that's outside my means because the big bank said yes!"

It's boom and bust. Keynes vs Hayak...

Is it better to have a strong foundation fiscally? Or is it better to keep the money flowing?

It's the broken window fallacy.

 

[BigTxEars]

Yeah, that's right. Just start your own business. That's the answer for the working poor. And no one is bullying Disney into anything. If you think Disney can be bullied into anything then I have a creaky bridge to sell you that leads to an operational River Country.

My point was for those on this board who are attacking Disney's current pay to start their own business and pay what they want to instead of attacking Disney over something they do not understand. And is there anybody on this board who is the "working poor", I would guess very few if any. So yeah not talking to the working poor at all with my comment.

I know Disney won't be bullied, and good for them. My point was to call a company out for unfair or unethichal treatment of it's people and to still spend your money with them is a bit on the hypocritical side for me. I don't do it anyways, other on here will it seems.

 

[englanddg]

I'm not saying unions are great or not. The kind of jobs we are talking about don't have a lot of growth potential or room for advancement either way. Working harder isn't going to get you more money and may not get you promoted. There is a steep pyramid with many more base level workers than management.

That's because the role doesn't change, and the responsibilities don't change.

Another issue I have with unions is that they stratify what the worker feels is "their job" vs "someone else's job".

Frankly, modern management styles support this concept now as well.

For example, someone who gets a job as a CM and is responsible for boarding guests onto a ride...well, the job doesn't change much over the years. Why should the salary?

However, that same CM will look at chipped paint and broken parts of the attraction and say "well, that's not my job" (if they even bother to educate themselves about it).

The mechanics of the system require they do so. Imagine a CM coming in and repainting something, or replacing a bulb, or fiddling with the broken animetronics? Yeah, they are more likely to be disciplined than encouraged. That's SOMEONE ELSE'S JOB!

Carry this mentality to office work. Why are they not required to keep their workspaces clean and well maintained? Well, that's SOMEONE ELSE'S JOB!

This is top down from management, but Unions don't make it any better, specifically if they are not tied directly to the organization and the profits directly.

 

[BigTxEars]

Yes. Which is what I thought as I sat through Moore's "Capitalism: A Love Story"...how many of those tragic stories, 4 - 6 years prior, were seen as successes? "I got to buy a great house that's outside my means because the big bank said yes!"

It's boom and bust. Keynes vs Hayak...

Is it better to have a strong foundation fiscally? Or is it better to keep the money flowing?

It's the broken window fallacy.

I know a guy who bought a $600,000 house, made $124,000 a year. Idiot pure and simple. An idiot who no longer lives in that $600,000 BTW.

The majority of the housing issue we faced as a country years back was the fault of people falling into those loans willingly. No different than the snake oil salesman from those old westerns. You buy it you deserve it. But the media turned the majority of them into victims.

Reminds me of that old TV ad for some diet product. Shows a heavy set lady opening the fridge in the dark, a sign it was the middle of the night. She reaches in and pulls out a plate with what appears to be a pie on it. A narartor comes on and says "It's not your fault" and then goes own to talk about their great weight loss product......excuse me but if you reach into the fridge at 2am to grab the pie to gobble down and pick up a extra pound or two....it's your fault!

Ahh the victim mentaility, should lead to great things for those who fall into it willing.

 

[GoofGoof]

My point was for those on this board who are attacking Disney's current pay to start their own business and pay what they want to instead of attacking Disney over something they do not understand. And is there anybody on this board who is the "working poor", I would guess very few if any. So yeah not talking to the working poor at all with my comment.

I know Disney won't be bullied, and good for them. My point was to call a company out for unfair or unethichal treatment of it's people and to still spend your money with them is a bit on the hypocritical side for me. I don't do it anyways, other on here will it seems.

Just for the record, I don't think Disney's pay scale is unethical. Their pay is within the laws of the state. I do think they should pay their workers better wages (with or without a federal increase in minimum wage). I have no problem going to WDW or spending my money there. It is possible to spend money on a product without agreeing with everything the company is doing.

 

[BigTxEars]

Just for the record, I don't think Disney's pay scale is unethical. Their pay is within the laws of the state. I do think they should pay their workers better wages (with or without a federal increase in minimum wage). I have no problem going to WDW or spending my money there. It is possible to spend money on a product without agreeing with everything the company is doing.

It certainly is, but some on here (not pointing just saying some) are implying that Disney is some type of greed filled monster for not paying their CMs more. The truth is that none of us know the Disney balance books, none of us know the ability Disney has to raise pay. But it does not stop some from attacking.

The same arugment is made against Wal-Mart all the time. By the unions as well, guess they need to drum up some new folks to pay dues. Crazy thing is that a typical WM Super Center will pay over $20,000 a day in wages, and more in quarterly bonuses. That is over $7,3000,000 per year per store. None of this includes the salaried managers, just the hourly employees. Yet folks ramble on all the time about how little Wal-Mart pays. Wages are the biggest expenses they pay, I would guess Disney is the same. As a business you can not raise you highest expenses line without cutting in somewhere else....

Anyways I am going to bed, gotta get up early to go to work so I can pay my taxes so other don't have to work....oh yeah I went there......

 

[englanddg]

Moore's only worthy appearance on film was in "Team America" IMO. The rest of his dribble is so one sided it almost hurts to watch.

Sicko and Bowling for Columbine weren't that bad. One sided, for sure. But, most "documentaries" are. Which is why I discount them as sources.

They are intended to be social commentary, and if you take them as such (instead of fact), then they can be quite enjoyable.

Capitalism: A Love Story, was the only movie he's done that I felt he really outed himself as a hypocrite. He flaunts IATSE rules (IATSE is the stage hands union), among a ton of other practices. He doesn't practice what he preaches.

He hates capitalism, but made millions through it. Yeah, I really don't have a fond opinion of the man.

However, I do think that documentaries that spark honest discussion about issues (rather then being touted as sources) are a positive and overall good thing.

 

[englanddg]

I know a guy who bought a $600,000 house, made $124,000 a year. Idiot pure and simple. An idiot who no longer lives in that $600,000 BTW.

The majority of the housing issue we faced as a country years back was the fault of people falling into those loans willingly. No different than the snake oil salesman from those old westerns. You buy it you deserve it. But the media turned the majority of them into victims.

Reminds me of that old TV ad for some diet product. Shows a heavy set lady opening the fridge in the dark, a sign it was the middle of the night. She reaches in and pulls out a plate with what appears to be a pie on it. A narartor comes on and says "It's not your fault" and then goes own to talk about their great weight loss product......excuse me but if you reach into the fridge at 2am to grab the pie to gobble down and pick up a extra pound or two....it's your fault!

Ahh the victim mentaility, should lead to great things for those who fall into it willing.

The issue with the victim mentality isn't the people who are stuck in bad situations. When desperate, it's much easier to make poor decisions.

It's the people who are victimizing them.

 

[GoofGoof]

It certainly is, but some on here (not pointing just saying some) are implying that Disney is some type of greed filled monster for not paying their CMs more. The truth is that none of us know the Disney balance books, none of us know the ability Disney has to raise pay. But it does not stop some from attacking.

The same arugment is made against Wal-Mart all the time. By the unions as well, guess they need to drum up some new folks to pay dues. Crazy thing is that a typical WM Super Center will pay over $20,000 a day in wages, and more in quarterly bonuses. That is over $7,3000,000 per year per store. None of this includes the salaried managers, just the hourly employees. Yet folks ramble on all the time about how little Wal-Mart pays. Wages are the biggest expenses they pay, I would guess Disney is the same. As a business you can not raise you highest expenses line without cutting in somewhere else....

Anyways I am going to bed, gotta get up early to go to work so I can pay my taxes so other don't have to work....oh yeah I went there......

Forget WalMart. A whole other discussion.

As far as Disney goes, they reported record profits for the P&R segment last year. They raised prices twice in the last 12 months. A single day ticket is up almost 12% from where it was a year ago this time. Labor is a major expense for WDW but the labor cost isn't going up 12% even with higher medical costs. IMHO some of my hard earned money that I'm paying with this increase should go back to the people that are working to make my vacation more enjoyable not to shareholders or executives.

 

[englanddg]

Forget WalMart. A whole other discussion.

As far as Disney goes, they reported record profits for the P&R segment last year. They raised prices twice in the last 12 months. A single day ticket is up almost 12% from where it was a year ago this time. Labor is a major expense for WDW but the labor cost isn't going up 12% even with higher medical costs. IMHO some of my hard earned money that I'm paying with this increase should go back to the people that are working to make my vacation more enjoyable not to shareholders or executives.

Well, first, Disney qualified for the employer mandate exemption (which pushed those expenses off).

But, second, I can tell you we saw well more than a 12% increase, and my company is rather small, in labor due to the mandate when we decided to be compliant. It was closer to 40%.

Enough that we have trimmed jobs and, at the time, considered dropping all benefits. Also, we are looking at how we can move full time jobs to a combination of part timers, and increasing automating so we can lay off more people.

This all sounds cutthroat, but I know if we are doing it, others are as well.

 

[flynnibus]

Well, lets see. You could buy nicer foods (say, have a nice steak dinner). You could eat out. You could go to a movie or two (more if you are frugal with the snacks). You could go to Walmart and get quite a bit of stuff for $235.

You could save up for 3 months and buy a 50" LCD television. You could not save at all and get a 36 inch one every month.

You could go to Ikea and buy furniture (there isn't one in Chattanooga, but a trip to Atlanta could be a fun day trip).

There's quite a bit you can do with $235.

Or face having to fix your car.. and paying $200+ for even basic repairs maint.

 

[Hyperspace Hoopla]

Can you redo that budget to include the second income a stable home would have provided the three children she chose to have with a drug addicted deadbeat?

 

[Preston Chatsworth]

"So, what does your dad do for a living?"

"He works at McDonalds flipping hamburgers."

It was never intended to be this way folks and it is a shame our government doesn't realize this and do something about it like get the economy going which in-turn would create "real" jobs. November..