Workers want pay boost

flynnibus

Premium Member
You honestly thought that was helpful, didn't you?

I don't have much empathy for the 'woe is me' argument. The kid managed to pull together 6 years of college.. and can't manage to find a job making more than minimum wage? What good is investing in more schooling in a field you don't have job prospects for? Why invest in a masters degree when you could have invested in vo-tech instead and actually got a job. Or skipped the second degree all together and just worked a job.

When will people start to accept that you should adapt to the work available.. instead of thinking 'if I build myself up.. a job will appear'
 

WDWDad13

Well-Known Member
But you can find a job paying more than minimum wage quite easily. The issue is you need to actually do the work required... not just the work you want to do.

It's kind of why they call it 'work'

Wow you and I agree something! Haha

Well said by the way
 

WDW1974

Well-Known Member
Spare me. We have the lowest and most progressive tax rates of all the not-third-world nations. And the marginal tax rate in, say, Walt's living breathing days was much higher than it is now. Yet every time someone suggests the wealthiest pay a little more or the poorer get a little more protection from being impoverished, we cry socialism. Meanwhile, you argue that some people don't deserve a livable wage, which means they get government assistance which you then can also decry as socialism. I guess you want to make people suffer any which way you can.

First, socialism is not inherently bad and evil, any more than capitalism is inherently good and just.

But your final statement is exactly where the bottom line of this goes: many folks want poor people, students, immigrants, minorities etc to suffer and live much below them. They just don't have the balls to come right out and say it.
 
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flynnibus

Premium Member
What other job alternatives exist in the central Florida area (in sufficient numbers) for Disney CM's which offer pay substantially better than Disney? Telling someone to find a different, better paying job is pointless unless a better paying job actually exists. I can't imagine area retailers or other theme parks, hotels, and the like offer much greater pay and benefits than Disney, if at all.

http://myflorida.com

Become a data entry person for $12+/hr with benefits...
pick any number of jobs from there

There are plenty of job openings out there with better pay... you just have to be willing to do the work.
 

flynnibus

Premium Member
And how many applicants are there for each of those job listings?

Apparently not enough since they have to keep posting them. There is a difference between "there is no other jobs" and "I can't get hired"

The latter would require accepting some responsibility... the former it's much easier to just blame everyone else.. like "I wasn't born rich"
 

WDW1974

Well-Known Member
Perhaps, but again, some people who needed to be appeased in order to get any kind of stimulus demanded a lot of tax cuts to people who probably aren't either of us in order to vote Yea. We got what we could get.

I have lots of respect for you. Even as a monkey, you are making more sense and showing more compassion than the humans here. I suspect you'll have to keep fighting until you need to go on a banana run because it has become quite en vogue in the USA to defend Wall Street and Big Business and attack the worker/common man.

It makes me ill. But as a Faux Top One Percenter, I can always head to France or Germany or Italy or Canada or Japan or Switzerland or Iceland or, my favorite, evil, vile, pinko, Godless red China! And everytime I leave the USA, I am slapped in the face that we no longer are the greatest nation at much more than entertainment and PR. Oh, and bullying.
 
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wm49rs

A naughty bit o' crumpet
Premium Member
Apparently not enough since they have to keep posting them. There is a difference between "there is no other jobs" and "I can't get hired"

The latter would require accepting some responsibility... the former it's much easier to just blame everyone else.. like "I wasn't born rich"
Neither of us have any idea of that, and you know it. What has been verified is on average there's three applicants for every open position currently. That would take getting hired difficult under many circumstances.
 

flynnibus

Premium Member
Define "substantially higher income." If someone started working as a janitor 30 years ago at 30K, it is perhaps wrong to assume they should now be making 100K, but should he still making 30K?

If you do a job that dictates you can be replaced at any time without any background or experience or specialized training.. you should expect to be paid an entry level wage regardless of how long you worked there.... because you are doing an entry level job. Is that entry level wage going to stay 30k for 30 years? No, because of COLA in general... the same way the minimum wage is not the same as it was 30 years ago. But to expect to have your pay increase simply because you've done your job for so long is off the wall. Unless you can make the job more.. it's going to top out in it's value. If you stay past that point.. that's your own fault for not advancing yourself.

But just because you put in time... does not make your job worth more money. What matters is your work, and what it's worth.
 

slappy magoo

Well-Known Member
That's exactly what the government tried to do two times during the fiscal implosion and it didn't help much. They cut the tax rate, gave people advances on taxes, and more... and yet people didn't spend more.
You're wrong, they did spend more. They spent as much as they could. At least, the lower income people who got a few extra bucks in their pocket spent more. The problem was the stimulus was 40% tax breaks for higher income brackets, and THEY didn't spend more. Had the stimulus been geared strictly to lower and middle income families, infrastructure projects and small business loans, it would have done so much more good, but that stimulus package could not get passed in the Senate.
 

WDW1974

Well-Known Member
I get the point you're trying to make, but the world is changing, and many of those things you list went from being a luxury to being a necessity. I would certainly agree with any kind of television access, except basic antenna for safety purposes. However internet access, for one, is, by many organizations, not considered a luxury anymore, it is a necessity. As more businesses and governmental agencies move their operations to the web, not having access or a working phone can prevent people from getting assistance or finding employment. A few years ago, I found myself unemployed, fresh out of college with very few prospects. Why? Because I spent my free time in college studying and working to minimize costs. I fortunately had awesome parents who let me live at home while seeking a job, but everyday they'd ask to see the applications I gathered, only to get frustrated when I told them all of the places in our area had online applications. The low administrative costs of such sites are enough to convince just about anyone to convert. Had I been on my own, I would basically have been screwed, internet would not even have been on my radar.

The good news is, I ended up with an amazing GPA and a decent degree, but unfortunately, four years of working retail and an internship at the Most Magical Place on Earth didn't make me overly desirable for anyone but the low-wage employer I was so looking forward to leaving. Pulling yourself up is not as practical as many folks think it is. Employers are looking for experienced professionals right out the gate, and those most likely to have that experience are the ones who could afford the unpaid internships while mommy and daddy paid the bills.

I personally have been able to better my situation somewhat, I now have a Masters degree and make slightly more than minimum wage, but given the student loan bills, there's absolutely no way I could live alone. Each time I manage to save a little money, my stupid broken car empties out that one. As long as my student loan creditors ask for their share, a new car certainly isn't in the works. I'm lucky in that I don't have children because there's no way I could make ends meet with them, and I honestly thought I did everything right. I can't even afford to go to the doctor, and I have insurance. The biggest mistake I made is that I wasn't born rich. As long as I have to struggle to make sure my basic needs are met, I'll never be able to get ahead. I'd love to work tons of OT and maybe even get a second job, but OT is a swear word as far as many businesses are concerned. If I'm halving this much trouble and I make more than MW, I can't imagine how hard it would be for these cast members, so I whole-heatedly support their cause. Disney, like every major corporation has a compensation models that skews way too far to the high end, if they just reduced their ratio to a more rational and reasonable level, they could pay for top-quality front line CMs without hurting the bottom line.

Just felt like bolding the part that people do NOT accept about the horrific job environment we have and have had for years.
 

MichWolv

Born Modest. Wore Off.
Premium Member
You're wrong, they did spend more. They spent as much as they could. At least, the lower income people who got a few extra bucks in their pocket spent more. The problem was the stimulus was 40% tax breaks for higher income brackets, and THEY didn't spend more. Had the stimulus been geared strictly to lower and middle income families, infrastructure projects and small business loans, it would have done so much more good, but that stimulus package could not get passed in the Senate.
On the politics, I'll stay away. But I'll confirm that many people -- for example, me -- who in no way "needed" a stimulus, got one. And it just went in my bank account.
 

flynnibus

Premium Member
Neither of us have any idea of that, and you know it. What has been verified is on average there's three applicants for every open position currently. That would take getting hired difficult under many circumstances.

Yet 2/3rds of the places I see around town all have 'help wanted' signs in the window.. and not for a day, but weeks on end. The issue isn't being crowded out.. it's people not working for what is offered. When employers can't get the help at the wage they offer, they will increase the offer.

More often then not, we just get the 'there is no work' and when you quiz the person on what work they've chased.. you find they are ultra selective in what they've applied for and pursued. So.. again the problem is not lack of jobs, but lack of what people are willing to do.

Averages like 'three apps for one job' are pretty pointless because they are aggregates that ignore the disparity between openings.
 

slappy magoo

Well-Known Member
If you do a job that dictates you can be replaced at any time without any background or experience or specialized training.. you should expect to be paid an entry level wage regardless of how long you worked there.... because you are doing an entry level job. Is that entry level wage going to stay 30k for 30 years? No, because of COLA in general... the same way the minimum wage is not the same as it was 30 years ago. But to expect to have your pay increase simply because you've done your job for so long is off the wall. Unless you can make the job more.. it's going to top out in it's value. If you stay past that point.. that's your own fault for not advancing yourself.

But just because you put in time... does not make your job worth more money. What matters is your work, and what it's worth.
I know plenty of people feel that way. I don't. As I wrote before I don't expect a person who works his entire life as a janitor to retire a millionaire, but for loyalty and longevity he should at least continue to get cost of living increases. Because if you fire that guy to hire someone else who'll work for less money, even though "anyone" can do that job, maybe the new guy won't do it as well. Or maybe he's flighty, tardy or absent often. You might have to go through 3 4 or 5 hires before you find a guy who works as hard as that first guy did, and that affects the productivity of the department as a whole, to say nothing of the morale.
 

wm49rs

A naughty bit o' crumpet
Premium Member
Yet 2/3rds of the places I see around town all have 'help wanted' signs in the window.. and not for a day, but weeks on end. The issue isn't being crowded out.. it's people not working for what is offered. When employers can't get the help at the wage they offer, they will increase the offer.

More often then not, we just get the 'there is no work' and when you quiz the person on what work they've chased.. you find they are ultra selective in what they've applied for and pursued. So.. again the problem is not lack of jobs, but lack of what people are willing to do.

Averages like 'three apps for one job' are pretty pointless because they are aggregates that ignore the disparity between openings.
They're just as useful as your anecdotal evidence if seeing "help wanted" signs all about town. But, whatever floats your boat....
 

WDW1974

Well-Known Member
I don't have much empathy for the 'woe is me' argument. The kid managed to pull together 6 years of college.. and can't manage to find a job making more than minimum wage? What good is investing in more schooling in a field you don't have job prospects for? Why invest in a masters degree when you could have invested in vo-tech instead and actually got a job. Or skipped the second degree all together and just worked a job.

When will people start to accept that you should adapt to the work available.. instead of thinking 'if I build myself up.. a job will appear'

I intend to move on to other threads shortly and leave you to battle all night ... but what makes you think you understand what this kid went through? And why their choice's have turned out bad.

I get that it is accepted to blame the victim in the USA today ... and also to make everyone a victim, so no one really is ... but playing Monday Morning QB with this kid's life choices while simply not having the facts is truly a bit below you.
 

flynnibus

Premium Member
They're just as useful as your anecdotal evidence if seeing "help wanted" signs all about town. But, whatever floats your boat....

You can chose to ignore facts and chase the statistics... whatever floats your boat. I for one know of many jobs people can walk up today and get hired. Ancedotal or universal... it doesn't matter.. it's true. And no one is an endured servant forbidden to leave the state of Florida. Sell your freaking PS4 and 50" TV and move.
 

slappy magoo

Well-Known Member
Yet 2/3rds of the places I see around town all have 'help wanted' signs in the window.. and not for a day, but weeks on end. The issue isn't being crowded out.. it's people not working for what is offered. When employers can't get the help at the wage they offer, they will increase the offer.

More often then not, we just get the 'there is no work' and when you quiz the person on what work they've chased.. you find they are ultra selective in what they've applied for and pursued. So.. again the problem is not lack of jobs, but lack of what people are willing to do.

Averages like 'three apps for one job' are pretty pointless because they are aggregates that ignore the disparity between openings.

You ignore the possibility that these could be jobs with high turnover rates. Wal-Mart is often hiring, sometimes because they're expanding but often because people quit. Why the high turnover rate? Could be bad management. Could be crap pay. Could be people only take it as a transitional job and they get something better.

It's also a possibility that it's a by-product of the ACA. Because now that insurance isn't necessarily tied to your job, and many people get subsidies for their insurance, some people are choosing to leave jobs they don't like, or pursue their dream of being a "job creator" themselves, or no longer working that extra part time job so they can see their kids at night, etc.

You shouldn't be so short sighted. As Freud would point out, sometimes a banana isn't just a banana. And sometimes a Help Wanted sign isn't high-falutin lazy good-for-nuthins refusing to get their hands dirty fr an honest day's wage.
 

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