Wookies, & Rebels, & Droids... OH WHY?! The Anti-SWL in Disneyland Thread

[flynnibus]

The thing is, I’m not sure the two are mutually exclusive. Carsland, Pandora, and Hogsmeade both achieve complete immersion while simultaneously feeling like they actually belong in their respective parks. Sure, the immersion is taken to another level, but in none of these examples (IMO) did the designers attempt to isolate the land from the rest of the park thematically and ideologically, which is what seems to be happening with SWL to some extent.

What? What about Hogsmeade feels 'part' of IOA? It sits between a dinosaur tropical JUNGLE and a african bazzar... with the single biggest 'flaw' people push about the land being the industrial view of the castle's BUM from the paths leading from the jurassic park area.

Carsland does nothing to integrate with it's surroundings or neighbors... it has a wall on one side, and just a wandering path on the other. Pandora simply walks you down further paths to isolate itself from it's neighbors.

Pandora has a similar look/feel that makes it easy for them.. but it's just as isolated story wise as SW:GE is.

People LIKE how carsland looks.. so they forget it makes little sense where it is or how it fits with it's neighbors. It's simply good enough no one cares it doesn't fit (like the Matterhorn/TL edge)

 

[DanielBB8]

The thing is, I’m not sure the two are mutually exclusive. Carsland, Pandora, and Hogsmeade both achieve complete immersion while simultaneously feeling like they actually belong in their respective parks. Sure, the immersion is taken to another level, but in none of these examples (IMO) did the designers attempt to isolate the land from the rest of the park thematically and ideologically, which is what seems to be happening with SWL to some extent.

What would have to happen to make you feel better about it? Pandora is quite isolated since guests have to cross the bridge to reach it. It has only a superficial connection to Animal Kingdom’s theme. Carsland is not easily seen from the other parts of DCA. Yet again, the theme supports DCA lightly; however, this is still controversial. Hogmeade is in Universal park. Nothing about it fit thematically to Universal and they are using a licensed IP. I’m inclined to feel that precedence is preferred although it will hold back innovation. So Disney is not allowed to innovate in Disneyland because everything else is so much better. We have yet to see it.

 

[shortstop]

What? What about Hogsmeade feels 'part' of IOA? It sits between a dinosaur tropical JUNGLE and a african bazzar... with the single biggest 'flaw' people push about the land being the industrial view of the castle's BUM from the paths leading from the jurassic park area.

Carsland does nothing to integrate with it's surroundings or neighbors... it has a wall on one side, and just a wandering path on the other. Pandora simply walks you down further paths to isolate itself from it's neighbors.

Pandora has a similar look/feel that makes it easy for them.. but it's just as isolated story wise as SW:GE is.

People LIKE how carsland looks.. so they forget it makes little sense where it is or how it fits with it's neighbors. It's simply good enough no one cares it doesn't fit (like the Matterhorn/TL edge)

Fair points. With respect to Hogsmeade, I think that’s less about the land itself and more about the style of IOA. I think it doesn’t fit in any better or any worse than most other lands in the park, since there is not much of a coherent theme to tie everything together. (I’m no UNI buff so don’t jump down my throat if this is inaccurate)

Carsland is not as hidden as you say - there is a wide open view into the land as you walk down the main drag of the park. It’s one of the most effective weinies in all of Disney Parks. (But also... DCA is no crown jewel of thematic integrity anyways)

The Pandora debate has been had numerous times on this site but I think it’s a great thematic fit. Plus, most of DAK is designed with winding paths that keep you immersed in your current location, so Pandora is hardly unique in that respect.

To be clear, I’m not arguing against the inclusion of SWL. All I’m saying is I’m troubled by the notion of Disney treating ‘Disneyland’ and ‘Batuu’ as entirely separate entities. I don’t want them to pretend it’s not truly part of the park.

 

[shortstop]

What would have to happen to make you feel better about it? Pandora is quite isolated since guests have to cross the bridge to reach it. It has only a superficial connection to Animal Kingdom’s theme. Carsland is not easily seen from the other parts of DCA. Yet again, the theme supports DCA lightly; however, this is still controversial. Hogmeade is in Universal park. Nothing about it fit thematically to Universal and they are using a licensed IP. I’m inclined to feel that precedence is preferred although it will hold back innovation. So Disney is not allowed to innovate in Disneyland because everything else is so much better. We have yet to see it.

I’m not really sure what would have to happen. I guess it’s just an unfortunate side effect of the single-IP-land trend we are seeing these days. I say this as someone who is generally pro-SWL.

 

[Roy G. Dis]

Hogsmeade fits IOA because IOA is a bunch of completely disconnected IPs. DCA is kind-of like this but has a bit more Disney glue. Not much, mind you. Disneyland has a lot more Disney glue that unites things, and that's the rub.

 

[flynnibus]

Fair points. With respect to Hogsmeade, I think that’s less about the land itself and more about the style of IOA. I think it doesn’t fit in any better or any worse than most other lands in the park, since there is not much of a coherent theme to tie everything together. (I’m no UNI buff so don’t jump down my throat if this is inaccurate)

Carsland is not as hidden as you say - there is a wide open view into the land as you walk down the main drag of the park. It’s one of the most effective weinies in all of Disney Parks. (But also... DCA is no crown jewel of thematic integrity anyways)

The Pandora debate has been had numerous times on this site but I think it’s a great thematic fit. Plus, most of DAK is designed with winding paths that keep you immersed in your current location, so Pandora is hardly unique in that respect.

To be clear, I’m not arguing against the inclusion of SWL. All I’m saying is I’m troubled by the notion of Disney treating ‘Disneyland’ and ‘Batuu’ as entirely separate entities. I don’t want them to pretend it’s not truly part of the park.

There is no wide open view... you hit Carsland entrance after walking past the skeletal remains of bountiful farms... and then you get to look down the main drag with the great look. And once you are inside... it's all sheltered in. Same with hogsmeade

This idea drummed here that the land needs to blur and be highly visible from everywhere else is just bogus. That was a method used in Disneyland, not one of the Ten Commandments of Disneyland design/feel.

The separation hype is way overboard and will be forgotten the first month the land is open.

 

[mickEblu]

Hogsmeade fits IOA because IOA is a bunch of completely disconnected IPs. DCA is kind-of like this but has a bit more Disney glue. Not much, mind you. Disneyland has a lot more Disney glue that unites things, and that's the rub.

This is a good way to put it and unfortunately DCA didn’t have to end up this way. It could have had a little more character than being the collection of hottest IPs park. But then again we should have seen the writing on the wall with Cars Land. We just kind of turned a blind eye because of the quality.

 

[shortstop]

This idea drummed here that the land needs to blur and be highly visible from everywhere else is just bogus. That was a method used in Disneyland, not one of the Ten Commandments of Disneyland design/feel.

This isn’t really what I’m arguing, though. I don’t care that it’s in the back of the park. In fact, I actually think it’s integrated fairly well from a visual and thematic standpoint. I’m speaking more from an operations/staffing/marketing/land atmosphere perspective - although these things will have less of an impact on a guest’s experience in the land, they are nevertheless important.

 

[TROR]

Hogsmeade fits IOA because IOA is a bunch of completely disconnected IPs. DCA is kind-of like this but has a bit more Disney glue. Not much, mind you. Disneyland has a lot more Disney glue that unites things, and that's the rub.

Isn't Islands of Adventure tied together by film adaptations of books?

 

[shortstop]

Isn't Islands of Adventure tied together by film adaptations of books?

I believe that wasn’t intentional but rather just some fan base retconning.

 

[VJ]

i dredged up this discussion from the depths of deadness solely to say...

star wars: fallacy's edge.

thank me later.

 

[Sharon&Susan]

Star Wars meets POTC: At World's End Edge
I mean why not? Jack Sparrow has already taken over the island with Andrew Jackson's fort. They're both close and SW:GE is the only place that serves rum in all of Disneyland.

 

[George Lucas on a Bench]

Hogsmeade isn't an island, that's why it doesn't make sense in IOA, but nobody cares.

 

[lazyboy97o]

Hogsmeade isn't an island, that's why it doesn't make sense in IOA, but nobody cares.

Scotland is on an island.

 

[SuddenStorm]

Didn't want to further derail both of the main Galaxy's Edge threads that are going on... so I decided to revive this thread.

From Jim Hill and Dan Z's latest podcast- a lengthy review of Galaxy's Edge-

"When you're entering the land from Critter Country, there definitely is a dividing line... where you feel like you're in a different place. I mean you do not feel at all like you're at Disneyland. Not for one second do you feel like you're at Disneyland."

This begs a few questions:

Is this because it's still incredibly new? And this feeling of separation will go away with time? I don't think so... looking at the transitions, WDI certainly worked hard to differentiate this land from Disneyland. Everything- from building design, to the scale of the entire land is completely different than the rest of the park.

So the more important question is why did they build a land in Disneyland with the intent of making it feel like you're not at Disneyland? WDI wanting the land to feel like a "park within a park", or like you've left Disneyland and entered the realm of Star Wars has been brought up a few times. Having this kind of mental separation weakens both Disneyland and Galaxy's Edge.

Very curious to see what the long term impact this has on the park experience is. Of course, this could be an isolated event- the land could exist in a form of separation from the rest of the park for the foreseeable future, utilizing a separate virtual queue further fragmenting the land from the rest of the park. This I think is the most likely- Disney will treat Galaxy's Edge and Disneyland as two separate entities- they'll market them with some amount of independence, I don't expect to see the Millenium Falcon next to the Castle on any billboards anytime soon.

The other potential route, that I also think is somewhat likely given WDI's track record- normal Disneyland is further altered away from what existed until 2015, and new attractions and land refurbishments move away from classic Disneyland and slowly morph the park into a new era of theming, essentially eliminating classic 'Disneyland' over the next few decades. I think the Tomorrowland redo will be the first big indicator of WDI's intent in regards to Disneyland's future.

 

[DanielBB8]

What is “classic” Disneyland and what makes you think Tomorrowland won’t be? Just because Star Wars Land? Curious about long term effects when it’s still 2 weeks away from the official general public opening. I think you’re way too pessimistic. Having more immersive theming at all Disney theme parks is a good thing, but it just doesn’t happen.

 

[britain]

Let’s do a thought experiment: Imagine if Disneyland existed for 60 years without Adventureland. And then one day they open Adventureland. Walking through it, you very well may say “I don’t feel like I’m in Disneyland at all! I feel like I’m in a faraway jungle village!”

Now the super-IP-ness of Galaxy’s Edge is definitely something Disneyland hasn’t seen before, and that is something this Adventureland analogy can’t recreate. But I do think that in a few years time a trip to Black Spire Outpost will feel as much like Disneyland as Temple of the Forbidden Eye does.

 

[Mac Tonight]

Let’s do a thought experiment: Imagine if Disneyland existed for 60 years without Adventureland. And then one day they open Adventureland. Walking through it, you very well may say “I don’t feel like I’m in Disneyland at all! I feel like I’m in a faraway jungle village!”

Now the super-IP-ness of Galaxy’s Edge is definitely something Disneyland hasn’t seen before, and that is something this Adventureland analogy can’t recreate. But I do think that in a few years time a trip to Black Spire Outpost will feel as much like Disneyland as Temple of the Forbidden Eye does.

I'm not sure I'd feel that way (or that anyone would actually). The fact is, you can still see other parts of the park within the realm of Adventureland, where the opposite (not seeing anything else) was such a major selling feature of GE. They don't WANT you to see any other part of the park for... reasons.

Adventureland's general theming fits in extremely well with the larger framework of the park and transition seamlessly into Frontierland and NOS respectively without the need for tunnels.

 

[George Lucas on a Bench]

It's a theme park land in a theme park. It may seem different because it's newer and more spacious, like Titanic was in 1912. It will be a part of Disneyland for hundreds of years and eventually no one will remember when it wasn't around because we'll all be dead and future generations will just enjoy themselves.

 

[Mac Tonight]

It's a theme park land in a theme park. It may seem different because it's newer and more spacious, like Titanic was in 1912. It will be a part of Disneyland for hundreds of years and eventually no one will remember when it wasn't around because we'll all be dead and future generations will just enjoy themselves.

And like the Titanic, is it also going to be seen as a colossal failure?