SuddenStorm
Well-Known Member
That's an idea I like. You could walk through Ice caverns, see traces of the yeti and the remains of failed climbing and sled expeditions before taking your own trip down the matterhorn.
-
Welcome to the WDWMAGIC.COM Forums!
Please take a look around, and feel free to sign up and join the community.
Wookies, & Rebels, & Droids... OH WHY?! The Anti-SWL in Disneyland Thread
- Thread starter Californian Elitist
- Start date
That's an idea I like. You could walk through Ice caverns, see traces of the yeti and the remains of failed climbing and sled expeditions before taking your own trip down the matterhorn.
Rich T
Well-Known Member
But it is properly themed. How Swiss can you get?
D
Deleted member 107043
I'm talking about the unthemed chain and stanchion queues that extend around the mountain. The Matterhorn is just plopped down in the park with very little (in some places none) breathing room from the walkways. The armchair Imagineer in me would like to see some space given for immersive storytelling similar to Big Thunder where guests are given a proper build up as they make their way to the loading station. I'm thinking if they ever clear the spaghetti bowl and Subs some space could be made for improving the Matterhorn's queue that extends from the chalet boarding station, beautifying the base on the Autopia side of the mountain, and undoing the traffic bottleneck along Submarine Lagoon between TL/FL.
DDLand
Well-Known Member
I'm surprised this fell so low, so I'm going to bump it. This land is Horribly placed. This land could not be in a worse park. This is antithetical to all the values and ideas that made Disneyland great. They're selling this poor park's soul.
This isn't even about IP, this is about tone. What a mess!
This isn't even about IP, this is about tone. What a mess!
Mike S
Well-Known Member
What could you possibly be going on about? It fits perfectly!
"Here you leave today and enter the world of yesterday, tomorrow, fantasy, and the most wretched hive of scum and villainy."
It's about both tone and IP for me, as well as some other things. I've said this before, I'd be more forgiving if Disney announced plans for Never Land somewhere in Disneyland, but the tone of the Star Wars just doesn't justify and entire land in Disneyland, and never will for me. It's BS and I'm dreading its arrival. Ew, ew, EW.
Curious Constance
Well-Known Member
Wretched scum and villainy? You mean Pirates of the Caribbean?
Mike S
Well-Known Member
Right over your head.
Curious Constance
Well-Known Member
Right back at ya, bro
GiveMeTheMusic
Well-Known Member
Constance throws lots of things over her many decapitated husband's heads.
180º
Well-Known Member
This is exactly my problem with it. As impressive and enjoyable the land could be on its own, I still can't get over this.
Curious Constance
Well-Known Member
Just in case you thought I was serious, I was being sarcastic. Villainy, and the triumph over it by the hero, has always been a major theme in the parks and for Disney in general. Villainy, for villainy's sake in the whole point of POTC. Fantasmic is a whole show devoted to good vs evil and the good's triumph over darkness. A large portion of the dark rides are also heavily centered on similar storytelling. People flock to get their picture with an actual villain who can be seen meandering through the park. Star Wars is just another extension of this, and I would argue the tone fits juuuuuuuust fine with the rest of Disneyland.
Curious Constance
Well-Known Member
I once threw an actual decapitated head over another of my husband's decapitated heads. It was overkill, but still enjoyable!!!
DDLand
Well-Known Member
The IP is frustrating, but I'm trying to just live with it as much as possible. The problem I'm increasingly having is all the choices they make seem to be one step forward two steps back. They share details about a stunning land that should just blow our minds, but it's in Disneyland. I don't want to be negative, but the wrongness of this just can't be overstated.
Ahh, but isn't there a difference? In Pirates of the Carribean they're spinning tales about a time already long gone. The Pirates meet an unfortunate demise. They're left die in their sins, vanity, pride, gluttony, etc. The whole attraction features a warning about the ultimate outcome for these Pirates. They may have a great time today, but ultimately they'll find themsleves in that burning prison cell.
Even then, it was a connection to another time away from the built out environment. Now in Star Wars Experience you'll be able to decide to be good or evil. You can help the first order. You can be totally morally ambiguous. The ultimate moral fiber of Disneyland is being circumvented.
The built out environment is now going to be antithetical to classic Disneyland. Instead of idealism and romance, you'll have eyes in the drinking fountains and creatures rumbling around in the pipes.
I want to go to the land, but the placement does not support Disneyland's past. This is the most radical departure from the ideals of Disneyland ever.
sedati
Well-Known Member
http://disneyandmore.blogspot.com/2009/11/d-exclusive-michael-jacksons-peter-pans.html
There was a proposal for a full Neverland park by Michael Jackson. Some nice concept art that's worth a look if you've never seen it.
Thank you Constance- that last exchange was one of the best examples of shooting fish in a barrel.
There was a proposal for a full Neverland park by Michael Jackson. Some nice concept art that's worth a look if you've never seen it.
Thank you Constance- that last exchange was one of the best examples of shooting fish in a barrel.
Thank you for sharing this, beautiful concept art. Would have been interesting to see it come to fruition.
Agreed, though I have no problems being negative. I will live with it by never visiting on my own free will.
I share your opinion that this is the most profound change from Disneyland's concept and ideals ever, and it's not good.
BubbaQuest
Well-Known Member
This was recently posted in the construction thread. A preview from Star Wars Celebration about the upcoming land:
https://disneyparks.disney.go.com/b...heir-collaboration-on-star-wars-themed-lands/
While watching, I kept thinking how much I wished this was something completely new and original and Disneyland specific, and not something based on an IP. I know those days are long gone, but I can still wish, right?
https://disneyparks.disney.go.com/b...heir-collaboration-on-star-wars-themed-lands/
While watching, I kept thinking how much I wished this was something completely new and original and Disneyland specific, and not something based on an IP. I know those days are long gone, but I can still wish, right?
Curious Constance
Well-Known Member
I understand we're probably never going to agree with each other, so I don't want to take a lot of time going back and forth. But to me I don't see a difference. Even when the pirates are dead (which for some reason comes at the beginning of the attraction) they seem to still be having a grand ole' time drinking and hording their treasures. And I don't think anyone could watch the Star Wars series without coming away with the feeling that there are definite consequences to the path you choose in life.
Sure it's fun to play the bad guy for awhile (which is a most likely a big part of the reason that POTC is so popular), it's fun to get your picture with a villain like Darth Vader or Kylo Ren. Just like it's fun getting your picture with Gaston. The guy who tried to condemn an innocent man to an insane asylum, and kill an innocent beast, just because he was jealous he couldn't have the girl he wanted.
Or the Evil Queen who would murder anyone who was prettier than she was.
So yes, some may choose to be the bad guy for awhile in Star Wars land, but I don't think that's anything new to Disneyland.
DDLand
Well-Known Member
That's part of the fun of these boards, and I appreciate people who articulate their feelings!
It should at the very least be weird. As I pointed out on another thread, there's a progression that has taken place. Disneyland has always been about escape from the problems of the world. Whether that's escape to nostalgia, to a fantasy world, to nature, or escape to a brighter tomorrow. It always has been about hope and optimism. Disneyland was built on the idea we can find strength in our past and that we can build a better world.
You are absolutely correct that conflict has existed in Disneyland from pretty much the beginning. There have been attractions showing human ills, but they provide context to the worlds that exist. The Pirates caught in the caves show the ultimate meaningless nature of the treasure, the vanity, the gluttony. It all sweeps away. It's a moral tale as much as anything; ironic because Disney has worked to curtail many of the scenes out of fear of offending people.
The New Orleans Square attractions in particular show how the unique history and culture of the area was crafted. Out of conflict and a rich cultural background New Orleans Square was born. A world of enchantment, order, and romance. It's somewhat a look behind the curtain, but ends with a clear reinforcement that those tales are not the way forward. New Orleans Square provides a stark contrast with those two attractions. A better way.
When New Orleans Square was opened, Walt Disney famously quipped that it was like New Orleans "only cleaner!" Some accused Disneyland of "sanitizing," but ultimately it was escape.
A world without cares and troubles, where bad guys get their just rewards, where heros fight for right, where nature is just a Train or Boat ride away, where Tomorrow's progress is real today, where the best of times live on, where good triumphs evil. It was a reflection of a group of dreamers and optimists that looked excitedly to the future, but that would never forget the past.
That's Disneyland.
Star Wars Experience is nestled on a planet that has fallen on hard times and has been forgotten. Instead of progress helping them, progress has done exactly the opposite. The advent of superior space technology has left this world in a place of poverty, anarchy, and stuck in the past. Instead of escape to a better, more beautiful place, this is escape to a place without hope.
This land is built on the idea that life can suck.
You'll be able walk down a street not knowing who wants to hire you to smuggle contraband, who is scared of you, and who would rather see you dead.
There will be signs of poverty, authoritarian military activity, smugglers, and guerrilla warfare groups. Animal smells will waft in the air. Creatures will scurry around in the pipes (you'll hear them). An eye will look up at you while using a drinking fountain.
Fights will break out in the streets. You won't be safe (from a story standpoint).
This is a place where technology has failed them, hope for tomorrow is found with aligning yourself with the right war faction, and where good doesn't always beat evil.
This is all very un-Disneyland Park. These stories will be awesome, but this is unprecedented. This is more than just a simple new land, this is a whole new vantage point to look at the world.
It says something about our society. In the 1950s and 1960s lands were created about hope, nostalgia, clear right vs. wrong, and escape. Today we're building a land that is all about ambiguity and struggle.
Many can say that this is well worth it, but I do think it's worth acknowledging there has been a philosophical shift. This is very different.
I'm just worried we may lose a bit of that optimism and escape that have always been so Disneyland. We'll see...
Last edited: