peter11435
Well-Known Member
They did build mystic manor. And Shanghai got a couple. Domestic... not so much.
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Rumor Wonders of Life getting an attraction soon?
- Thread starter Bacon
- Start date
lazyboy97o
Well-Known Member
But those were demanded by the park’s majority owner.
RSoxNo1
Well-Known Member
Except it goes against an explanation of how to fit IP into the park made by Tony Baxter. He pointedly said that Epcot is where the real becomes fantastic and the Magic Kingdom is where the fantastic becomes real.
Either way, you're arguing semantics.
Coaster Lover
Well-Known Member
- In the Parks
- No
Well, lest we forget that the Mickey Short "Get a Horse" did play before Frozen in theaters... and there was this Easter egg
This is the absolute truth that most people like us simply do not want hear.
Epcot in the early 80's was absolutely awesome for a few. For the masses it was a one and done snore fest. They did not want new, they wanted MK 2.0 with a bar. Disney did not help matters by not updating attraction with any regularity.
This is quite sad, but it is the reality.
mikejs78
Well-Known Member
Except it's not, and there's no evidence of that. Epcot maintained high attendance rates well into the 90s, and the started declining.
They definitely didn't update things enough. For FW to work they need to update these attractions every 10 years *at most* and take into account new technologies and advancements.
Bocabear
Well-Known Member
and EPCOT in the 80s wasn't "awesome for a few and a snorefest for the masses"...It was a groundbreaking concept the like of which the world had never seen... The biggest problem with the park was the unfinished state...Attractions were never added to the Showcase that were planned, and updates to the Future World pavilions never came... It was this stagnant phase that the masses reacted to....
When EPCOT opened, those that found it a "snorefest" were in the minority...
When EPCOT opened, those that found it a "snorefest" were in the minority...
Goofyernmost
Well-Known Member
Since I don't have any access to hard attendance numbers like you apparently do, I guess that I have no ability to believe what I see instead of what someone with a vested interest (your source) says about it. I don't know when the last time Disney was real open with attendance numbers for any of the parks especially in the the late 80's and early 90's. What I saw were lines of people in switchbacks that could hold what seemed like the whole country in the early 80's, by the end of the 80's you could walk on most without any problem at all. Now since I always went at the same time of year, that does not indicate what happened the rest of the year, but, common sense tells me that if they were still drawing the crowds there would have been no discussion at all about making any changes, but, instead they desperately tried to remake Epcot starting in those years. So, you could be right and I could be wrong, but, I will believe what I saw and not what I heard from others. Doesn't matter anymore anyway. What happened, has already happened and none of us can change the past.
mikejs78
Well-Known Member
Paging @marni1971 - can you shed any light on attendance drop off and Epcot popularity in the 80s and 90s?
The evidence is not in the attendance. The evidence was in guest feed back and what Disney did in response.
Guests complained that the characters were not there. Characters got added.
Guests complained about the lack of thrill rides. Thrill rides got added.
and so on...
You also have to admit that Epcot's attendance would be no where near the levels it is now if it was not for food and wine starting in 1995. Horizons, World of Motion and Wonders of Life were all operating when Disney felt the need to add festivals to boost attendance because those attractions that we love so much, just weren't doing the trick.
I will never forget Thanksgiving weekend in 86 or 87 when I got to spend the entire 4 day weekend in WDW and I was old enough to go to the parks on my own. MK was a zoo, but I got to ride Horizons and WoM over and over again because Future world was a ghost town.
15 year old me was blissful in the ignorance that me having Future World to myself on what should have been a very busy weekend would eventually spell the doom for attractions I loved so much.
Attendance peaked in 1987 and has never got back to that figure. Apart from a slight bump around the millennium it declined until its lowest in 2002.
mikejs78
Well-Known Member
I don't think this is the case. Story goes that when Michael Eisner became CEO, he visited Epcot and asked where the characters were. He was told there weren't any in Epcot, and he responded by saying that this was a Disney park, and there needed to be Disney characters.
Maybe. I'm not sure about this one. I don't know if Disney's customer survey mechanism was as thorough then as it is now. But by 1995 the attractions *were* getting staleband attractions decliming. The Disney org decided that the answer was thrill rides and 'relavant' IPs like Ellen, Bill Nye, and Honey I Shrunk the Kids, when the solution may have well been to just refresh the attractions there, or build on them (i.e. go with the original WoM plans and *add* a Test Track like ride as a second attraction). But they decided to go a different route, which hasn't exactly paid off either.
Of course. No one is disputing that Epcot declined, but it's because it became stagnet and attractions weren't kept fresh and new ones not added. But Epcot was still popular. Why else would Disney hac seriously considerd a Westcot park at DLR if Epcot wasn't popular?
Also as far as the festivals, it was a very short one by today's standards, and may have been to just boost attendance in what was a very quiet time of year (they used to have those).
I went in October 1988 (a slow time), February of 1990, and April of 1992. So no real peak seasons in there. I remember waiting in lines at Epcot every time - usually 20-30 minutes. And those were some people eating attractions. Don't know why our experiences are so different there.
Needless to say, you're right that it can't be undone at this point. But I think you're selling old Epcot short.
Kman101
Well-Known Member
Epcot's decline seemed to start when the park didn't know what it wanted to be. And they lost the growth they were having because they did lackluster overlays and gutted high quality attractions. I'm sure none of that played a role 
It was never a failure on it's opening. It's ingrained in popular culture for a reason.
You could argue tastes changed in guests, they grew tired of the great rides declining in maintenance, they grew tired of the direction of the park .... times change. I don't mind IP in Epcot in a few, specific cases, but they've long insisted the problem was lack of "Disney" in the park (which ironically to me in it's heyday seemed "full of Disney" to me!). Since Figment seemingly did well in surveys .... I don't know that I believe guests insist on IP. I don't know, I'm not justifying it's removal but I don't think guests of today would or did appreciate things like Maelstrom. They don't "get it".
I blame Disney for not teaching their guests what the park should be about. I agree with AJH/Sirwalter in that they promote the parks terribly. Or they used to. You'd never know it was four parks. But then again, a guest should be capable of research in this day and age of technology but as someone else said, they seem more unaware than ever.
It was never a failure on it's opening. It's ingrained in popular culture for a reason.
You could argue tastes changed in guests, they grew tired of the great rides declining in maintenance, they grew tired of the direction of the park .... times change. I don't mind IP in Epcot in a few, specific cases, but they've long insisted the problem was lack of "Disney" in the park (which ironically to me in it's heyday seemed "full of Disney" to me!). Since Figment seemingly did well in surveys .... I don't know that I believe guests insist on IP. I don't know, I'm not justifying it's removal but I don't think guests of today would or did appreciate things like Maelstrom. They don't "get it".
I blame Disney for not teaching their guests what the park should be about. I agree with AJH/Sirwalter in that they promote the parks terribly. Or they used to. You'd never know it was four parks. But then again, a guest should be capable of research in this day and age of technology but as someone else said, they seem more unaware than ever.
Or maybe people on vacation didn't want attractions preaching to them about energy conservation, ocean conservation, responsible agriculture, staying healthy, etc...
That was Disney Institute...
sedati
Well-Known Member
Well, anyone not lucky enough to have attended one of the many World's Fairs/Expos throughout the years.
You and I might have thought that, but Steve from Wichita did not.
There are a lot more Steves in this world than Bocabears and Yodas.
The Empress Lilly
Well-Known Member
But an enormous amount of people would love nothing more than to be inspired about all that. People love what they are good at, so smart people love learning, while others resent it for that same reason.
Sadly Disney learned that while smart people on the whole may have higher incomes, the lower incomes spend more on useless trinkets, fatty foods, booze and theme parks.
EPCOT:
The Universe we know is one of dynamic forces -- its heartbeat sending a constant flow of energy coursing through the vastness. This energy is never destroyed, nor is this energy created. But energy is perceived in different forms.
Within the atoms of all matter - on a level most infinitesimal, yet most powerful - is nuclear energy.
Binding atoms into molecules and crystals - and stored in the cells of all living things - is chemical energy.
In the sudden flow of electrons there is electrical energy.
In the world around us, there is constant motion - and in this motion, there is mechanical energy.
Unleashed in the motion of molecules themselves is heat energy.
Finally, washing over the Earth in an all-pervasive, never ending flood is light energy.
We long observed with fascination, the interplay of these elemental forms of energy, noting that certain forms often changed into others.
Then, through the genius of the human mind, came the realization that energy could be harnessed and made to work for us.
Versus Eisner-Iger World:
The Universe we know is one of dynamic forces -- its heartbeat sending a constant flow of energy coursing through the vastness. This energy is never destroyed, nor is this energy created. But energy is perceived in different forms.
Within the atoms of all matter - on a level most infinitesimal, yet most powerful - is nuclear energy.
Binding atoms into molecules and crystals - and stored in the cells of all living things - is chemical energy.
In the sudden flow of electrons there is electrical energy.
In the world around us, there is constant motion - and in this motion, there is mechanical energy.
Unleashed in the motion of molecules themselves is heat energy.
Finally, washing over the Earth in an all-pervasive, never ending flood is light energy.
We long observed with fascination, the interplay of these elemental forms of energy, noting that certain forms often changed into others.
Then, through the genius of the human mind, came the realization that energy could be harnessed and made to work for us.
Versus Eisner-Iger World:
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gmajew
Premium Member
If that was the case then the numbers on the park would not have been at its height back in the 80's.... What happened is more the fact that people have become less able to focus and dont want to focus on anything longer then a few min.... Why You Tube is so damn popular and other short videos.... Kids todays attention span have gone away.... So if Disney wanted to keep the message of the original epcot they need to figure out how to do it and teach it with todays generation in mind.... The problem is they dont want to do this and are taking the easier path of changing the park from its glory days to just another theme park.